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Tech: Firefox forgets password - won't sign in

katlaughing 08 Nov 08 - 12:01 AM
JohnInKansas 08 Nov 08 - 02:16 AM
katlaughing 08 Nov 08 - 11:13 AM
katlaughing 08 Nov 08 - 11:16 AM
JohnInKansas 08 Nov 08 - 01:17 PM
katlaughing 08 Nov 08 - 02:10 PM
Mick Woods 08 Nov 08 - 03:03 PM
JohnInKansas 08 Nov 08 - 03:04 PM
katlaughing 08 Nov 08 - 03:59 PM
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Subject: Tech: Firefox forgets password - won't sign in
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 12:01 AM

I have used the Firefox "Remember for this site" password and sign in thing for ages. It has always worked for me, including on Mudcat. This week, every time I go offline and come back, I have to reset my cookie for Mudcat. I have tried dumping all of my data: cookies, browsing history, etc.; made sure my Options are set to accept cookies from Mudcat, etc. to no avail. I still have to reset my cookie each time i have been offline and returned. This does not happen for other sites.

I have not done anything different on the settings on my firewall, Adaware,AVG, or any of that.

Any ideas?

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Subject: RE: Tech: Firefox forgets password - won't sign in
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 02:16 AM

Kat -

You don't have to sign in at mudcat each time, as long as your "sign in cookie" remains on your machine, and there's no "sign in invitation" when you come here. There's no real reason to keep a sign in and password in your browser, to log in each time you come here, if you allow your "permanent cookie" to stay in place. As long as the cookie is there, mudcat recognizes you and your browser doesn't get an opportunity to sign you in each time you come back.

If you delete cookies, you do of course have to sign in again to get a fresh new cookie here.

Given that the "permanent cookie" is all you need here, your massive and multitudinous defenses may not have been working here until an old cookie got lost or crumbled. Most of the defenses you've got won't delete a cookie existing at the time the program was installed or updated (AdAware being the possible exception) but once one is lost any of them may block getting a new one. You're settings may always have been to reject cookies from "uncertificated sites." (?) [Mudcat doesn't have a certificate, and doesn't need one since no "personal information" that needs one needs to be exchanged here.]

I don't recall needing to get a "new cookie" at mudcat more than about 3 times in the 8 or 10 years I've been coming here, hence I haven't "signed in" more than about 3 times.

A "permission" in your browser should be all that's required, but any of your "defensive systems" could possibly be overriding the permission you set there.

Additionally, any "toolbars" you've added could be blocking things (the Google toolbar has an option to block cookies(I think?) and popups(definitely!), as an example).

If you're using a Windows version that still gets "updates" the Microsoft "Guardian" can also cause blocking of new cookies, and may have been turned back on by a recent(?) update.

Norton turns off the Microsoft firewall "gracefully" and allows Guardian to run only during updates; but I don't know whether AVG does that automatically.

Too many possibles to pick just one with any real confidence.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Firefox forgets password - won't sign in
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 11:13 AM

Sorry, John. I should have been more specific.

When I closed down Mudcat and go offline, I have a Mudcat cookie. I am logged in, but the next time I go online, I come to Mudcat and have to reset my cookie by logging in. Like you, until this past week, I have only had to do that a handful of times in almost ten years. The one thing Firefox is doing, is when I type in "katlaughing" and hit Submit, it then shows the password box already filled in, so it is remembering it somehow, and all I have to do is hit Submit again and I have a cookie, again. BUT, I have to do the same thing each time I come back online.

This is not happening with the other websites to which I have cookies set for logging in with password and user name. I do have to click on their "log in" thing, but everything is there and remembered and it only takes one click.

I just checked my Microsoft Security settings and it's okay for accepting cookies; I even added mudcat as an exception to always allow.

I just checked Kerio, AVG, and Spybot and don't see any cookie blocking directions in any of them.

I have Firefox set to allow cookies and specifically have okay'd Mudcat for everything allowed, even pop-ups!*g* I will go in an delete the mUdcat cookie again and see if that helps.



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Subject: RE: Tech: Firefox forgets password - won't sign in
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 11:16 AM

Well, I dumped Mudcat cookie from Firefox and it still didn't have me sign in automatically as in the past. Again,it does remember my password, after I've typed in my user name, but I never used to have to do any of that. I could just come to Mudcat and was already signed in, always.

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Subject: RE: Tech: Firefox forgets password - won't sign in
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 01:17 PM

kat -

You should not need to log in when you come back to mudcat, if the mudcat cookie you received at your last login is still on your computer.

There are two possible reasons that I can think of immediately that would explain why your cookie would disappear between visits.

1. When you give permission for your computer to accept a cookie from a site, you can give permission for "this visit only" or you can give permission to "always trust this site."

If you set to "always trust," you'll get a cookie with an expiration date a few years in the future, and each time you visit mudcat the expiration date will be extended, so the cookie never expires as long as you keep coming back.

If you set to "accept cookie for this visit" the cookie will usually be deleted as soon as you leave the site, or when you close your browser or shut down your computer.

2. You are deleting all cookies, or have set your computer or one of your multidudinous "security programs" to delete all your browser history when you shut down your computer.

Windows, and IE, don't normally delete permanent cookies even if you opt to delete browser history on shutdown, but other programs may.

(If you manually use IE Tools | Internet Options | General tab, Delete cookies, all your cookies will go away. You can also use "Disk Cleanup" to do the same. Disk Cleanup - in some Windows versions - may "remember" what things you selected for deletion at a prior run, so if you selected "Delete cookies" sometime in the past your version may delete cookies when it runs again. Vista automatically runs Disk Cleanup on a schedule, and runs Defrag regularly, but so far as I know it's uncommon for earlier Win versions to be set up to do either automatically.)

As I don't use Firefox, I can't advise whether it may have "options" that would cause it to do a complete cleanout.

If you have AdAware set up to do "real time" checking, it's my understanding that you must set a number of options, and since AdAware is generally paranoid about deleting everything you may have set something that causes it to delete all your cookies.

You could also have a "corrupt cookie" that mudcat doesn't recognize, but when you log in the corrupted cookie is "edited" without removing the corruption. Usually if you "Log Out" at mudcat the bad cookie is immediately deleted, so that when you immediately log back in, you'll get a fresh and uncorrupted cookie that should eliminate the need to log in at the next visit (unless the cookie is being deleted). You do, of course, have to be "logged in" in order to "log out."

In very rare cases you might need to manually delete a "bad cookie" to get rid of it.

Unless you know that you've set up to delete all your cookies, you need to check when you start up your computer and before logging back in at mudcat to see if your "Temporary Internet Files" folder contains a mudcat cookie. The easiest way to check what's in your Temp Int folder is using Internet Explorer. At Tools | Internet Options, on the General Tab, at "Browsing History" click the Settings button, and then the View Files button. (In earlier Windows versions you can use Windows Explorer to find the folder, although it's a "deep and complex path" to get to it. In Vista, IE is the only way I've found to view it.)

Again, as I don't use Firefox, I have to speculate that Firefox should remember your mudcat username when you visit mudcat. Your mudcat name should be associated with your computer "user name" under which you start up your computer. If you've changed your computer user name, the "association" may have been lost. Changes in the "privileges" for your computer user name may also have "corrupted" the association. (I've seen some comment about "corrupted password files" for most browsers, including Firefox, with no real explanations for how this happens; but it appears to be fairly common.) If this has happened, you'll likely need to "rebuild" your passwords file/folder (in Firefox) and I can't give advice on that.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Firefox forgets password - won't sign in
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 02:10 PM

Thanks, John. I don't use IE, but a few times per year, but I did empty it out of all history, cookies, etc. THEN, I went poking around in Firefox some more. Looked at Bookmarks, deleted all of them related to Mudcat AND found even more there under Browsing History which apparently don't get dumped when you tell Firefox to dump all private data IF they are associated with a bookmark, so I deleted a ton of browsing history to do with Mudcat, logged off and dumped all Private data when I did so, then rebooted the PC for good measure. Came online, signed into Mudcat; went off line and back in and voila! My cookie is still here, so somewhere in that mess there must've been a bad cookie, right? No matter, I am just glad to have figured it out even if it was by hit or miss!

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Subject: RE: Tech: Firefox forgets password - won't sign in
From: Mick Woods
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 03:03 PM

The new Firefox has a feature to delete all personal stuff when you close it. This will also delete your mudcat cookie. You must go to the following on the firefox toolbar:

1)tools 2)options 3)privacy

Then untick the box that says

"always clear private data when I close firefox"

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Subject: RE: Tech: Firefox forgets password - won't sign in
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 03:04 PM

kat -

Note that the suggestion to use IE to look at the Temporary Internet Files folder wasn't intended to suggest that you need to use it for browsing, if you're happier with another browser. It's just the simplest way to get to the TempInt folder in most Windows versions. Other browsers should be using the same folder for cookies and temporary web files, since Windows defines that as the place those things should be.

It is worth noting once again that IE is an intimate and non-removable part of Windows, and even if you don't use it you should keep IE up to date with security patches. IE and Windows Explorer are in reality the same program, just wearing different masks for appearance purposes. Windows Explorer gets many, if not most, of its updates as IE patches, and Win Explorer is the main way of getting access to all of the files on your computer.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Firefox forgets password - won't sign in
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 03:59 PM

Yep, I know, JOhn. I just figured it wouldn't hurt to clean up IE, too.

Mick, thanks, but I had already done that a dozen times at least, plus I have it set to delete all when I close but also to WARN me before it does and I usually opt not to; I am pretty sure this was a corrupt cookie for some reason.

Thanks, fellahs.:-)

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