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Info required - Pilate's Rule

Tradsinger 08 Nov 08 - 04:56 PM
Anglo 09 Nov 08 - 02:29 AM
Tradsinger 09 Nov 08 - 04:55 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 09 Nov 08 - 03:53 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Nov 08 - 08:02 PM
Steve Gardham 10 Nov 08 - 06:01 PM
McGrath of Harlow 10 Nov 08 - 06:11 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 10 Nov 08 - 09:44 PM
Tradsinger 11 Nov 08 - 03:54 AM
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Subject: Info required - Pilate's Rule
From: Tradsinger
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 04:56 PM

The following carol is one of a set from Brockweir in Gloucestershire. Does anyone know of any other versions or any background to it?

Tradsinger

When Pilate ruled Jerusalem, they brought our Saviour to condemn,
That multitude our Lord did spy, crying let Him be crucified.

They brought our Saviour to the tree, where for our sins He nailed must be,
His hands and feet were pierced with sword, His blood was for our sins reward.

There were two thieves, we understand, He suffered with one on each hand
And one of these to Him did say , 'Save thou thyself and us this day'.

The other said, 'Lord, I believe Thou canst my precious soul receive.
Christ answered ,'Yea and thou shall be this day in paradise with me.'

Now Joseph had his own new tomb, he'd hewn it out of rocky stone
And laid the body down with care and perfumed it with spices rare.

Three guards of soldiers then straightway were sent to watch till it were(?) day
To see if Christ would really rise and mark what wonders met their eyes.

God sent a very great earthquake which made the soldiers hearts to shake,
Our Saviour then rose from the dead as in the scriptures we have read.


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Subject: RE: Info required - Pilate's Rule
From: Anglo
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 02:29 AM

Never heard of it, but I want to know the tune! Not to mention the rest of the set. Is this something you collected?


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Subject: RE: Info required - Pilate's Rule
From: Tradsinger
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 04:55 AM

It was collected by Bob Patten and Andrew Taylor, not by me. It seems to be very rare. In fact, this is the only version I know of - unless someone out there can tell me otherwise.

Tradsinger


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Subject: RE: Info required - Pilate's Rule
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 03:53 PM

Brockweir' only church is Moravian (1833) acc. to websites. At one point it had help from Monmouth Baptists.
Moravian


Could the carol be a translation from Moravian sources, or Baptist origin?


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Subject: RE: Info required - Pilate's Rule
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 08:02 PM

Very interesting set of words. Like Anglo I'd like to know if there is a tune associated with it, and more about it - when was it collected etc.


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Subject: RE: Info required - Pilate's Rule
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 06:01 PM

Gwilym,
It doesn't look like oral tradition to me. Its syntax is too stilted and awkward. Yes a translation possibly. It smacks to me of something freshly written. I can't find it in any of my indexes, or anything else mentioning Pilate for that matter. Herod crops up occasionally.
Sorry!


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Subject: RE: Info required - Pilate's Rule
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 06:11 PM

Stilted and awkward syntax is pretty characteristic of a lot of folk literature, especially that which hasn't become part of an oral tradition.

It could well be something freshly written, but the question is, when. Come back, Tradsinger and tell us more.


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Subject: RE: Info required - Pilate's Rule
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 09:44 PM

There are several songs about Pilate, but those I found seem to have no bearing on the lyrics posted by Tradsinger.
I fail to find it stilted- looks more like an Easter reading or part of one.

Several hymns
What Will You Do With Jesus? Simpson
What will you do with Jesus? Norton
The Dream of Claudia Procula
Pilate's Wife's Dream Smith

"Pilate's Song," by Peter Futcher. Lyrics by Nicholas Howden. An Easter worship song. Sheet music available through Sibelius.

WHO KILLED JESUS

Who killed Jesus many years ago
Who is guilty of a crime so low
Why did he have to die
What is the reason why
Who killed Jesus
I would like to know.
1 of 6 verses, suggesting in turn Roman soldiers, Pontius Pilate, Hebrew children, and the author. Mickey Holiday, 1970

"Pilate" by Stone Gossard
Pilate song in Jesus Christ Superstar

etc.


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Subject: RE: Info required - Pilate's Rule
From: Tradsinger
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 03:54 AM

The only information I have is that it is one of a set of carols collected by Bob Patten and Andrew Taylor from Charley Williams from Brockweir in the 70s. The other carols included well-known ones such as The Holly and the Ivy, The Virgin Unspotted and a wassail song. I have sourced all the others except this one, which appears to be a one-off. The tune is a rather 4-square 4 to the bar melody. Charley passed away in the 1980s and there is no-one now in Brockweir that could shed light on it. Interesting, though. Thanks.

Tradsinger


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