From Max: Mudcat Update

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 09:24 AM

Maybe a 'Clubs and Events' section then Hils, sub divided into US/UK/Other?

JM

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: My guru always said
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 09:21 AM

Great to see that you're here Max & thanks for all you do!

I'd really like to see more use of the Permathreads, especially for Clubs (some do already) & Festivals in the UK. I'm certain that organisers would be happy to edit these threads to keep them up to date rather than creating new threads.

Perhaps the possibilty of using a Permathread could be shown on the 'create a new thread' page so that organisers could be tempted to do this rather than 'clutter' the Cat with lots of threads. It could help with correct naming too so that Catters across the pond could ignore them rather than being aggravated by the prolific use of threads of this nature by UK Catters.

Maybe even more performers (some do already) might make use of this for upcoming gigs etc. I've thought of trying it for the MudGathers I organise but haven't asked about it yet.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 07:52 AM

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: catspaw49 - PM
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 09:15 PM

DO AWAY WITH THAT STUPID CENTURY MARKING OF THREADS!!!


.............uh............200


Spaw


Spaw, You may not have noticed that Max stated that he may edit this discussion. Yours may not stay as post #200

Cheers
Nigel

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: SINSULL
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 07:50 AM

I disagree. Often those self-indulgent adverts are the only way we know that something local is available or that a new CD has been released.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: GUEST,Captain Sensible
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 07:37 AM

May I humbly suggest yet again that some -named- UK moderators, with power to delete posts and close threads, might make a huge difference in helping to keep us Brits in order?

Try telling that to Mrs Lemon Tom Bliss. Joe has intervened, as far as I can tell, with UK posts.

And as for the BBC website, it is a flick-a-switch oriented forum. Based on radio, CD, and promoting artists, as far as this poster can see. It has it's place in the spectrum, but it is a smaller place than the 'Cat. And not a place I go for erudite discussion or humourous banter.

If you want a suggestion for culling threads - let us start with the self-indulgent adverts for artists. Tom - there can be a turn off factor for over-use, word of mouth must come from others' mouths not yours.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Amos
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 09:44 PM

I found a long time back that I could generate a list of html links to my posts and sic Adobe Acrobat on the list and have it generate a PDF book, with bookmarks by post.

Given how much crap I post around here, though, I have not found it a worthy goal to pursue en masse.

A

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 09:15 PM

DO AWAY WITH THAT STUPID CENTURY MARKING OF THREADS!!!


.............uh............200


Spaw

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 08:32 PM

Thanks kat - I hadn't tried doing that with Advanced Search, and it's fun. The thing about the Mudcat is that it always has tricks I haven't come across before, even after all these years. And even without any of these changes and improvements Max has in mind.

Still round the corner there may wait
A new road or a secret gate...

But just in case it would be good to have CDs of some of the good stuff. These are uncertain times...

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 07:28 PM

If you do the Advanced Search, you can set it to look not only for the poster's name, but also keywords i.e. Rick Fielding and "frailing"...my idea of having all of my own postings on a CD was so I don't have to try to remember where I wrote some short story or something I might want to use and also so that I would have a copy just in case something ever happened to Mudcat. (I suppose that might be PTSD from the "Day they came for Mudcat thread!){g}

As for the others, it would be the same thing, there may be a time or days when someone is unable to get online or whatever but they would still like to read what Rick or someone else had to say on a certain subject. With their permission, if they are still living, then you could purchase a specific CD with the proceeds divvied up however they and Max work it out. In the case of those who are deceased, it would be best to get permission from their next of kin.(Thanks, WYSIWYG)

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 07:19 PM

CDs: I for one would be looking out for a Dave Bryant collection, as well as the ones already suggested. I only heard Dave once, and have been waiting for the tape Essex Girl was planning to do of his recordings ever since.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 05:03 PM

Here's a small thing: how about alphabetizing the quick links at the top of the page, so we can find the one we want more easily? There are also a few that could be combined.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: gnu
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 02:21 PM

Ahhh... surely, "...every personal message you've ever sent or received... " would be excluded from general public sale.

In which case, it's already available.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 01:41 PM

I would imagine that it would be possible to do searches specifically within the posts and the threads containing them, which would be quite a significant difference, if you were looking, for example, for what Rick might have had to say about something in particular.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 10:52 AM

Find any message by your chosen perpetrator & click on their name at the start of the message to see a list of all their posted messages.
(This system already available)

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: nutty
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 10:32 AM

Regarding Rick and others ... could such things as CD'S be linked to through an Obituary section where such as Rick, BruceO, Col K and other mudcatters who have passed away, can be remembered and celebrated.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 10:01 AM

Aye, and the Art Thieme Collection, too. Grand idea, McGrath!

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: jeffp
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 09:51 AM

I suspect that the Fielding Collection would be a best-seller.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 09:33 AM

Going back to something raised in Max's opening post:

katlaughing had the idea to sell a CD of your own personal backup of your interaction with the mudcat. All the messages you've ever posted, every thread you've ever posted to, every personal message you've ever sent or received and a copy of the DT. Any interest?

Sounds an interesting idea - but when I read that it occurred to me ethat what I'd really like would be a CD like that of someone we've lost, the late Rick Fielding. And I doubt if I'd be alone in that.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Beer
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 09:50 PM

The old saying "Simplify Simplify". Let's not change to much if change is coming. I say this as I think that what is taking place now is very well done. It is very clear to me at the moment and very easy to get around. I think the control on the B.S. section of Guest's has made a great difference. Some get through once in awhile(like the response I gave to a troll last week that a moderator removed. I don't apologize for my response but I also completely understand why it was removed.)and the one I'm referring to was removed.
Adrien

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 09:21 PM

Much of what I do as a Co-Moderator involves trying to figure out what Max would want if he were around.

Same here, Jeri.

I do not think the BS section should be hidden from the public; I refer folks to it, every once in a while and I know they come to read. They don't post much, but they enjoy reading some of the better stuff.

IF, there were going to be another section, I would suggest something like a "Mudcat Museum/Depository/or something or other where Vintage/Memorable threads are housed permanently, probably without any access to posting to them unless it's by an admin person. That way they would always be visible and accessible, not dropping off or being buried in the FAQs thread. A lot of folks don't know about them unless they are pointed out. My 2 cents...:-)

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 08:57 PM

I trust Max not to overdo any changes. I'd hate the Mudcat to get more like, for example, the BBC Message Board.

As for the suggested Mid-Section I don't really see the point. I can't see a clear distinction between it and the BS. I'm all for ractfully and effectively dealing with flaming, wherever it crops up. I think the ban on nameless GUESTS and on GUESTs generally starting BS threads has effectively got rid of most of the trolling. It's a pity when people twist discussions into squabbles, but that doesn't prevent us from having some interesting and frequently level-headed threads about controversial stuff. And that is quite unusual in any context.

Thanks, Max, for giving us the Mudcat, and I look forward to seeing how things develop. As I said, I trust Max to get it right.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 08:36 PM

I think Max always intended Mudcat to be a place for friends, met and unmet, to discuss things. When you have someone swooping in appearing to have no other motive than to piss people off, I don't think it fits into the plan. Much of the political discussion is between folks who dislike or flat out hate each other. I'd be just as happy if the endless same shit/different day political sniping could be limited, but I doubt Max would want that. Much of what I do as a Co-Moderator involves trying to figure out what Max would want if he were around.

Now that he is, maybe I won't have to guess what he'd want and maybe I really won't need to do as much editing.

That said, it would be good to lose the vandals, including the one who occasionally trashes the Mudcat Wiki page. I'm in, if it means making the Mudcat more welcoming.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: jacqui.c
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 08:25 PM

Sounds great Mick.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Amos
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 08:16 PM

Hell, I'll go for that.


A

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Big Mick
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 07:56 PM

It's not necessary, Geoff. That is a description of what BS should be. You will see more and more strict monitoring of offensive posts as we move on. Joe and I are watching carefully, and if you have read Max's posts for comprehension (that is not meant in the flip way it could be interpreted, rather just as a statement with no perjorative intention) you will see that it is his intent to return to civility. I will be watching the BS section much closer. Nastiness and stirring of trouble is going to be met head on. That is not to say that real, and intense, debate is not allowed. But if you enjoy belittling, or nastiness, or flaming, or trolling, your posts will disappear. In short, the "below the line" area should be home to great discussion, discussion of controversial issues, humour, just about any subject, so long as the discourse stays on the civil level. Those that have the habit of being nasty and superior will likely not be pleased. But that is my interpretation of what Max is up to, and as Co-Moderator I intend to see it happen.

Back to the village,

Mick

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 06:13 PM

Once again this brings me back to my suggestion of a Third Domain, between the Upstairs and the Below Stairs, a sort of mezzanine level where visitors could start sensible non-music discussions but with more obvious monitoring for bad behaviour.
There was discussion a bit earlier in this thread about the role of moderators, and Mudcat behaviour sometimes resembling mud slinging in a playground. One suggestion would be for a different standard of acceptable behaviour in the different sections of the forum.
In the Music section we would expect a level of civilised behaviour and good manners. In the (proposed by me) Mid-Section, offensive behaviour, flaming or trolling could be banned, and forcibly removed where appropriate. This might make it more inviting to strangers. The BS section could then be left for the cut and thrust of political debate and gladiatorial combat. Max and Joe could decide where to draw the line beyond which the combatants are not allowed, but keeping something similar to what happens now.

Just a thought!
Quack!
Geoff.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Amos
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 06:06 PM

I like to think of it as the place where the Big Spirits swap their deepest insights...



A

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 05:22 PM

BS: Below Stairs, where the 'real' life gets lived..

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 05:18 PM

or even Breeze Shooting!

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: nutty
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 03:34 PM

The more refined of us think of it as "Bloody Silly"

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: jacqui.c
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 02:53 PM

Exotic! From this lot?

He he he he he he .........

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Silas
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 01:13 PM

Is it really that simple - Bull Shit?

I was expecting something slightly more exotic.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: MartinRyan
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 01:02 PM

Silas

You could always read it as "Bloody Sligo"!

Regards

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 12:51 PM

Yes mate, an innocent enquiry.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Silas
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 12:49 PM

Fuckin ell John, I only asked!

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 12:37 PM

Bull Shit.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Silas
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 12:34 PM

OK pardon my ignorance but what does BS stand for, I've always wondered.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: GUEST,WYS, Seeing the Guest View at Photos
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 12:32 PM

"You must me a member to use this feature. Please take a moment to log in or Join us."

~S~

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 09:59 AM

Google may see all, but that doesn't mean everyone has to see all.
Members profiles aren't accessible to Guests, perhaps making the whole BS section unavailable to Guests would be a move forward.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 09:51 AM

Hide from Google? Google sees All. . .

;-)

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 09:28 AM

Subject: RE: What Should I Tell Them About Mudcat?
From: Nigel Parsons - PM
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 09:24 AM

Maybe it's something to add to the "Message from Max" thread. Now 'Guests' can't start BS threads, and we have the BS discussions 'below the line' why not put that whole section out of view of the general public.
It would make The 'Cat look much cleaner to casual visitors!

=====

YESYESYESYESYES!

Make it the default view with a members-only option to mix them-- not the other way around.

~S~

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 09:08 AM

Oh wait-- this is the kind of thing it goes to-- is there a MudCut???

http://www.amazon.com/Woody-Guthrie-Machine-Kills-Fascists/dp/B0002N4ZE2?&camp=212361&linkCode=wpc&tag=themudcatcaf&creative=384005

~S~

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 09:04 AM

I like the new mouseover box with Amazon links by artist.

~S~

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 08:35 AM

I can see BillD's idea for a space for pictures, but memory availability may be a problem.
On a similar basis, it might be nice to have somewhere we could upload scans (in black/white) of sheet music (always bearing in mind copyright requirements) to back up discussions going on here.

Cheers
Nigel

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 01:06 AM

Bill D., I used to use the space Earthlink made available, but it's easier to upload to photobucket so I go that route these days. I put larger things or stuff I am not sending to the public at large on my personal pages. Like my holiday letter, I'll post some of the photos and maybe the text there, but the names of the photos and the text won't turn up easily in a photo keyword and title search.

There is a form of software one frequently sees at discussion sites that does allow limited upload of images, not just requiring a link from an external site. It is generally nice, but trouble arises when occasionally people post full-size photos and the huge display throws the page formatting off. That's a pain in the neck for reading the rest of that page.

SRS

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 12:40 AM

not THAT kind of weakness in the idea, Joe! Besides, 'tweren't me the folks paid for to get that calendar (Alison, maybe).... You don't think I'd post 'those' images, do you?

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 11:06 PM

We had a "nearly nude" Mudcat calendar a while back, and Bill D was Mister June in 2001 AND 2002.

Much as I like Bill, I'm not sure the world is ready for a repeat performance.

Be afraid, people.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 09:55 PM

I got an idea....it would take some programming, but I have no idea how much.
I'd like to see each member allotted 'X' much space for things like their picture, or a couple of pictures they'd like to post within a thread. It could be linked so that clicking on a member name led to their picture, much as now it leads to a list of the member's posts.

Right now, for good reason, the 'img src' HTML to post links from outside Mudcat is not allowed....but if someone could upload an image and link to it within Mudcat, it could be nice. I'm thinking particularly of pics taken BY the member.(Yes, I realize there is 'potential' for abuse, but penalties could be noted.)

Personally, what *I* do right now is take my pic and FTP it to an area my own ISP gives my (at least 2 Gigabytes right now). I suspect that many members have this option, but just don't realize it.

Anyway, if each of us had a small area with an easy upload, it might make it easier to illustrate who we are, rather than have to have someone monitor stuff constantly......

(I can already see weaknesses in the idea...but maybe someone has a refinement of it?)

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 06:16 PM

As has been said by others before me, financial contributions shouldn't be regarded as 'handouts'. The way I see it, Max has built a fantastic resource for us to use. I have used it since 1999 at least - it has become a 'home from home' for me on the net, something unequalled by anything else I've found so far. A lot of people contribute, devote their time to it and make it the resource it is.

BUT: If need be, we could do without every single one of them - even Joe. We could NOT do without Max, his dedication and his technical equipment and expertise. You'd have to look long and hard to find anybody who'd be prepared to do what Max is doing. Therefore, I regard any financial contributions as his due, not as handouts. By rights he ought to charge us, if only to recover his costs.

Max, I respect and admire your decision not to do this but instead try and find ways to make the Mudcat pay in other ways. I hope, though, you'll change your attitude to financial contributions those who benefit from using the Mudcat (we!) may want to make. They shouldn't be regarded as different from any other 'revenue' generated by the site, other than the fact that they are accompanied by three words: Thank you, Max!

As to Tom Bliss' worries: Understandable to some extent, yet I'd hate to see the Mudcat (like others I've visited) turned into a forum mainly for plugging CDs and gigs and 'sanitised' in order not to scare off prospective buyers. That wouldn't be the Mudcat any more. Maybe I don't look at the right threads, but it seems to me there have been worse times for trolling and unpleasantness. I much prefer the Mudcat to the Usenet for that very reason.

To accommodate the business aspect, maybe an extra section, separate from the forum but reachable through a button, could be created where new CDs etc. could be advertised, and Mudcat would get a cut of earnings from that. Just an idea.

As to other ideas: Compulsory preview would be ok, and I also think the edit function for own postings where changes are shown to have been made a good idea. Anything further: no.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 04:15 PM

Hello Max,

I just dropped by to thank you for all the work you do to make the mudcat available to us. I have gained so much from the site and without it I would be the poorer.

Live long and prosper!

Best wishes,


Peter