To Those Who know another language besides En

Subject: To those who speak a language other than English
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Jun 99 - 09:55 PM

I was just thinking, that if those Mudcatters who are fluent in other language would be willing to, it would be interesting and fun to have a thread for each different language and have a short phrase of words lesson, with meaning and pronunciation, posted every week/day or however often each would want to post.

So, there might be a "Learn a few German phrases, esp. related to music" thread or "Learn a few phrase in Gaelic" (For instance, Alison, what exactly does "Slainte" mean and how is it pronounced?; or one for Chinese (Cleod, hope you see this), etc.

I know this would take a lot of time for some, but I am only talking about simple words and/or phrases. I would esp. like to learn a few, so that I don't feel such an idiot not even knowing how to say hello or goodbye to one of you Mudcatters to whom English is not your primary language. I've always loved languages and would like to at least be able to greet you in your native tongue.

Let me know what you think, please.

Thank you,

katlaughing

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: alison
Date: 16 Jun 99 - 10:29 PM

Hi Kat,

Good idea... but if you want fluent Irish speakers you need to talk to Philippa.. I'm only just learning.

slainte.... pronounced slawn-sha.

means your good health, sort of like cheers. so next time you have a Guinness and go to say cheers.. say slainte.

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Matthew B.
Date: 16 Jun 99 - 10:47 PM

Sounds great, but I don't have a Hebrew keyboard.

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: PJ
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 02:10 AM

I love this idea, and I'd happily participate on the learning end. I'm not much good for contributions as my only other language is American Sign Language, which is remarkably easy to translate in print! :)

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Murray on Saltspring
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 03:39 AM

I can envisage an awful lot of different threads! And for those languages that don't use the Roman alphabet, [and even for some that do] I suppose some easy transliteration might do [Matthew, you'd have to decide on H or CH for that guttural sound in Hebrew]. Anyway, why don't we start with various translations of slainte? In Russian, you'd say NA ZDOROVYEH [the last sound is something like "yeah", as one syllable. -- It really means "to (your) health", ZDOROV meaning "health" itself.[This is a toast that turns up a few times in "Fiddler on the Roof", as some may recall.] Cheers/slainte/etc. Murray

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 03:55 AM

ASL won't work on us over here, we only do BSL.

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Philippa
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 04:10 AM

Really, I think you're better off learning these phrases elsewhere on the internet, unless someone chooses to use them within the context of some other thread than a specific language learning thread. Though I appreciate your interest, Kat.

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Theodore
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 05:01 AM

slainte in the Greek language is: "stin ygia mas" and the translation is "to our health".

And by the way: There is this song "Gloomy winters new awa" from Dougie Maclean. Does anybody knows what "awa" means and, of course, can you sent me the lyrics?

Theodore

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: HåvardR
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 05:14 AM

I always thought awa' was just short for away (i.e the gloomy winter is gone). The song, which was written by Scottish poet Robert Tannahill, can be found along with other Dougie MacLean lyrics Here

Ha en fin dag
Håvard

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Banjer
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 06:07 AM

Havard, do I translate 'Ha en fin dag' to mean 'have a fine day' in Sweden? I think Kat has a good idea, but don't think we should get into the business of teachin/learning foreign language just for the sake of learning language. To be able to better understand some phrases would be helpful. I think Katlaughing has a good idea as long as it is kept in the parameters of phraseology as it pertains to this site. I am interested in learning what many of the phrases mean in the various threads, such as Slainte, but really don't need to know how to ask 'where do you keep the mustard?' in Russian or Hebrew, etc.....

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Theodore
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 06:23 AM

Håvard Thank you (efharisto in Greek), it was very usefull

Theodore

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 06:44 AM

Salud (pronounced Sal-lude with the emphasis on "lude") - in Spanish it means "health." I heard it used mostly when raising a glass or when someone sneezes, as we might say "Bless you." If the person sneezes again you say "dinero" (dee-nere-o: money) and if they sneeze a third time you say "amor" (need I translate this one?- I don't think so.) Like three wishes. If they sneeze again you offer them allergy medicine.

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 06:55 AM

I'm with Philippa, however I'll be glad to give all information possible to more or less specific questions, even if they do not deal with music.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: HåvardR
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 07:06 AM

Sweden? whadyamean SWEDEN? I'm Norwegian! But you're right Banjer, "ha en fin dag" means "have a fine (or nice) day". There is less variation among the Scandinavian languages than within the English.

Håvard

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 07:34 AM

In Welsh - Hwyl Fawr (hoo-EEl vaOOR, it's important to roll yer r's), meaning (kind of) 'good health to you'.

In Anglo-Saxon - Waes du hael (wass thoo ha-eel), meaning the same thing. This phrase is where 'wassail' comes from, as if you didn't already know that...

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 12:11 PM

It is always important to roll your "r"s (BG)

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Jon W.
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 02:00 PM

In Italian they say "cin cin" (cheen cheen) for a toast, also "Salute" which means health. I don't think there's any translation for "cin cin".

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Mudjack
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 03:01 PM

I ain't learnt englush yet.
Mj

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 07:39 PM

I'm always having to roll my rs in France - where it's 'salut'.
'egrezegredre' in Hungarian...
Jo

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From:
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 08:01 PM

"Gloomy winter's now awa [away]" is by Robert Tannahill. It's in Graham's/ Wood's 'Songs of Scotland', I, p. 6.

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Dennis
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 09:24 PM

HavardR, Does this mean that Scandinavians can chat quite freely among each other, each using his own language, and be understood ? Why then do they insist on referring to "Swedish", "Danish" and "Norwegian" ? English is spoken all over the world by many diverse nations as a first language, but they all call it English - except for the Ulster Unionists who have their own problems, they don't *want* to be understood by anyone !! Dennis

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: HåvardR
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 06:33 AM

Yes it does. The exeption is Finnish which is quite remote from the other Scandinavian languages (it's only related language in Europe is Hungarian for some obscure reason). But Norwegian, Swedish, Danish and Icelandian people understand each other completely. Of course we also share a common culture in most other respects.

I can't give a very good reason for not having a single name on these languages, but obviously having one of your own is an important part of a country's identity. Furthermore there has never (yet) been a Scandinavian empire and commonwealth, with a common administrative system and so on.

There has however been several types of Scandinavian unions. The rather loose union between Sweden and Norway ceased in 1905.

Håvard

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Philippa
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 07:24 AM

I saw a Danish tv programme subtitled in Norwegian. There are differences, but I have observed people from the Denmark.Sweden/Norway speaking together and they tell me they each talk their own language and don't have to adapt so that the other person can understand them. On the other hand, some people in Norway even call two main Norwegian dialects two "languages".
the other Scandinavian language besides Finnish that's very different is Sami (Lapp). How well do Sami in the different regions intercommunicate?

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: HåvardR
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 08:13 AM

Norway actually has three official written languages bokmål (book-tounge, sic!), nynorsk (Neo-Norwegian) and Sami (spoken by the lapps) The two first are not very far apart, but have slightly differt rules of grammar and vocabulary. To put it simple bokmål (which is the chosen language by 90%) resembles Danish and Nynorsk is closer to oral language and also to archaic Norwegian and (hence) Icelandic. Languages has been (and still is to some extent) a source of a great many arguments up here.

Sami is (as far as I know) related to Finnish, and not spoken (or understood) by the majority of Norwegians. The Lapps are an ethnic group found in the north of Norway and Sweden as well Finland. Still as far as I know, they intercommunicate quite easy between groups from different countries. Furthermore, with the exception of very old people, lapps are bilingual.

Håvard

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Vixen
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 08:45 AM

I think the idea is good, Kat, but p'r'aps not for here. One thread with all sorts of phrases would get too long and difficult to sort through; several threads each dealing with a different language would require the searcher to know the language of the phrase sought. As somebody who's always into words and language, though, I've learned a lot from this thread, and wonder if there is some way a foreign phrase database could be added to the site. Max???

V

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Will Bakker
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 10:25 AM

I am Dutch, you know (North of Belgium, West of Germany,East of England) Why are there so many expressions in English that are not so positive about the Dutch. Dutch treat,Dutch bargain,Dutch courage....? Are there even more and if so, are there positive expressions about the Dutch?

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 10:39 AM

Will - You missed Dutch Uncle (somebody who's never there). In the 1600s we were at war with the Netherlands, I reckon that because this period was also one of increasing standardisation of the English language, some or all of these (negative) phrases got included in the broadsheets and passed into general use.

I've got an inkling that 'Dutch Courage' refers to the aftermath of the siege of Magdeburg, which resulted in 25000 civilian deaths or thereabouts, after the sacking soldiers got p*ssed and started hacking women and children to death.

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 10:59 AM

I read that "Dutch courage" comes from the English/Dutch naval engagements, when the Dutch crews got a rum ration before the fighting started. A bit unfair, 'cos we did the same!

Steve

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Penny S
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 11:24 AM

Then there's double Dutch, or someone speaking English in a way that cannot be understood. I think this may be because of accents. I used to live in tourist areas, and became accustomed to hearing the tune of voices I heard changing the feel of an area. How can I explain this? I used to walk on to the railway station at Dover, and, without consciously registering why, feel I must be in the States. Or find myself speaking to the station staff in French. And once, in Rye, I walked past a group of obvious tourists, didn't get the space warp, and then did a double take as I realised that not a word was comprehensible. The tune was English, but the words were, I think, Dutch. Something similar was reported by Caxton, where a Sandwich alehouse woman thought an Englishman was Dutch because he used a different dialect word for eggs. This isn't negative, exactly, but a recognition of a difference which is hardly a difference.

With regard to the Scandinavian languages, before the Norman conquest, England was part of the area of mutual comprehension. In the saga of Harald Hardrada, on of his men, Eystein Orre, trying to get reinforcements to Stamford Bridge, accosted a farmer in the feild, fully expecting to be understood.

Penny

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Penny S
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 11:31 AM

Probably he'd have been understood better in the field.

Penny

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 12:00 PM

I wouldn't worry too much about it, Penny, the eye compensates graciously for those inadvertent slips of the fingers. I read your last post and your post script twice before I caught the error you were correcting. (That i before e stuff is all relative in a relative universe anyway....)

Regards, Neil

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 12:02 PM

.....or Niel, whichever you prefer.

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Wotcha
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 12:19 PM

Gesondheit is my favorite dutch expression for good health before a beer goes down the hatch: at least in Flemish speaking Belgium.

A good German way to remember how to pronounce those i and e sounds (stein or stien) is "when two go walking, the last one goes a-talking ..." i.e., pronounce stein (stine) and stien (steen) ... but that wouldn't help the English pronunciation for Neil (which would be Nile ...)

Arabic soon to follow... cheers, Brian

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Will Bakker
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 01:07 PM

Wotcha, you're almost right. In Holland we say Gezondheid, in Germany Gesundheit. Speaking about Belgium, there's a Belgian beer called 'Mort subite', it means 'Instant death'. Must be very strong.

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: cleod
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 02:12 PM

Thanks Kat, I did see this, but English is my first language so I don't know much Chinese. However, I do know that kampai (where pai is pronounced pie as in pizza) means Cheers -- an interesting note is that kanpai (with an 'n') is japanese for the same thing.

The only words I know in Arabic are gamal barghut (not sure about the sp., but pronounced bar-ghoot), which means camel flea. ^_^ go ahead and laugh, Brian!

Ni hao ma? (nee how mah) is chinese for how are you/you are well -- or you can just use ni hao (like hello) Tsai tsien (tsee-en) is goodbye (ts is pronounced like the end of 'nuts') Kamusta (u is like the u in uluru) is filipino for how are you.

arrrgh, don't get me started...i collect these things too!

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: mm
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 06:05 PM

Slainte means "health", and is pronounced "sLAWNchuh"

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 09:54 PM

You all are just TOO COOL!! Thanks, everybody. I love everything you've all posted. I don't care if we wind up with any other threads or not, although Margarita did start one on French, this one is terrific!

Cleaod, thank you. The words you posted are beautiful to my ears. I am fascinated with all of these postings. Thank you, Merci beaucoup, Danke Schoen (SP? Please imagine an umlaut), Gracias, etc!

katlaughing

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: MudGuard
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 08:33 AM

Dutch is in many aspects very similar to German, not only concerning health (Gezondheit/Gesundheit)
Take the English word "Dutch" and the German word for "German" which is "Deutsch" and see it yourself...

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Banjer
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 02:30 PM

How about the quaint Pennsylvania Dutch that my Mom's Aunt sometimes lapsed into? She was German and we would sometimes hear such odd requests as "Go the stairs up and the windows put down" or "Out put the cat" Could get quite confusing until decoded.

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 02:41 PM

"Dutch Uncle" (or aunt, or cousin, or any relation) refers to someone who is not actually a blood relation but because of strong social or affection ties is -- actually -- closer than a relative.

Double Dutch is a jump rope rhythm.

"Going Dutch" means each pays his or her own way and is in no way derogatory -- I've always assumed it is because young people in Germanic countires routinely pay their own way on dates.

Rich Hill in Seattle teaches Scots Gaelic and does a Scots Gaelic workshop at NW Folklife every year (don't know if he's ina band at the moment; his last one split up i think.) Website for the Seattle Scotthis Gaelic Society is: www.slighe.com

I will not even attempt a blue clicky thing.

Auf Wiedersehn, bis spaater,

MA

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: skarpi
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 09:49 PM

Halló Katlaughing, I like your idea. Will you learn a little In Icelandic?. All of mudcatters can learn a little, Icelandic is easy to learn ask Dan about it he knows a liitle.

Góðan daginn, hvernig hefur þú það?. Good day, how are you

Ð this letter is difficult also this one, Þ

Try to say thór=Þór

another exsamble,

Ég heiti skarpi og er frá Íslandi. My name is skarpi and I am from Iceland.

try it, and let me know, bless að sinni skarpi Iceland

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: marlor
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 10:29 PM

Hi: I speak Italian. I can read and write it a litt.e Don't get to much practice. I was born in Canada to Immigrant parents.Hmm, what word can I teach you? How 'bout the word for cat. A female cat is gatta. A male cat is a gatto. don't know if you're male or female. Chao

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 11:19 PM

Skarpi,

Thank you, thank you. I have had some German and a lot of Latin, in junior and senior high school. Even though they may not be related, I was able to "read" a little bit of what you wrote. Not quite sure of the pronunciation, though. Do you have an Icelandic keyboard with those symbols on it?

Marlor: for me, it would be "gatta". I also had some Spanish and musical Italian while taking violin and piano lessons. Because I love cats so muhc, I've always loved the name of the city in California: El Gato.

My niece, her husband, and 3 yr old son live in Italy right now. Have for about 4 yrs. Her son talks to the neighbors and they say Ciao (sp?) to him all of the time, so....he thinks that is their name! I've always thought of that as strictly an Italian word. When my husband was working in Venezuela, ciao is what everyone there used for saying "goodbye".

This is just great. Thanks, again, everyone!

katlaughing

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Murray on Saltspring
Date: 20 Jun 99 - 03:42 AM

Maybe this is a good place to pass on a "joke" [if that's what it is] about a linguistic misunderstanding: a French lady tells her Spanish maid to put the "gateau" in the fridge; and of course the silly girl puts in the "gatto".

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Murray on Saltspring
Date: 21 Jun 99 - 01:53 AM

It isn't in my Portuguese dictionary, but I find "Tchau" as a farewell in John Grisham's novel "The Partner"; spoken by a Portuguese, it must be a borrowing from the Italian, just like English usage.

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Allan C.
Date: 21 Jun 99 - 04:27 PM

Ciao is used often by Brazilians (who, for those who don't remember the historical bit about the "Line of Demarcation", speak Portuguese). Saude - is pronounced SOW-OO-GEE with an accent on the second syllable. (It always sort of reminds me of the vocalization of the sound of old car horns.) This means "health" (the "to your" is implied but normally not voiced) and is a common toast.

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Jay in ireland
Date: 21 Jun 99 - 07:34 PM

In french it's santé or bonne santé = health or good health, In Farsi it's "hasta na-bosheh" = " we hope you're not tired"

Hope that was interesting for you

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Jun 99 - 09:25 PM

It is most interesting! I am going to extract the phrases and translations and put them in a little reference book. That way, I can have it handy for posting to eahc of you!

Keep 'em coming! And, thanks!

katlaughing&lovinglanguages!

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Jun 99 - 11:05 PM

I only know a few phrases in Korean, (the spoken language is called Hangul Mal, or at least it's pronounced that way.) My favorite word/phrase is "opseyo." (the "op" part is pronounced sort of half way between oop and owp.) It means "we're out, all gone, not there, it doesn't work." "Muleyo" (moo-lye-oh) means "I don't know." "Cho sum ni da" means "good," "fine" "OK." "Neh" (nay) means "yes," and "aniyo" means "no."

Subject: RE: To Those Who know another language besides En
From: Allan C.
Date: 22 Jun 99 - 08:41 AM

In the "road" movie, "The Road to Mandalay" they say what sounds to me like, "sala ma tin gall" which, they explain, means "farewell to those who stay". Is there someone out there who actually speaks the language who can confirm this? - or tell us how it should be said?