Can You Hit the Wall...?

Subject: Can You Hit the Wall, Tenderly..?
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 07:36 AM

No, I'm not asking how the enraged avoid bloody knuckles.

This is yet another annoying newby question. But as I've had such a lot of helpful advice thus far, I'm going to keep coming back for more...

I've heard a few comments about being able to sing for the back of the room, or 'hit the back wall'.

But how easy do people here find it to project their voice well, whilst also maintaining intimacy and a sweet tone (with for example a sweeter song that might warrent it), without the use of amplification?

Cheers, Sleepy Rosie

Subject: RE: Can You Hit the Wall...?
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 07:51 AM

I'm an average singer but, over the years, I've learned the difference between volume and projection. If you sing from your stomach, I think you get projection; sing from your throat and you get volume. There is a difference - just difficult to explain and my theory may be up the creek. Clarity of diction also plays an important part.

Whispering Jack Smith, the "Whispering Baritone", was badly gassed in WW1. However, he had a very successful singing career, and his quiet, unforced baritone voice could be heard at the back of theatre - no amps in those days. That's projection.

I've always intended to have some formal singing training - and never got round to it - but a (blues) singing friend of mine did have a short course from a classical vocal teacher and found it very useful.

In the meanwhile, I do a combination of throat and stomach - a sort of libidinous growl...

Subject: RE: Can You Hit the Wall...?
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 07:53 AM

sing from the diaphragm.
here is an exercise to improve your tone.
1. breathe deeply from the diaphragm,then expel air very slowly
2.breathe deeply again,expel air quickly ,PAH.

Subject: RE: Can You Hit the Wall...?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 07:56 AM

I think I used this image on another thread, so I'll have a bash at this one. I didn't know I could do it until I tried. I started out by looking straight down the length of the room because I was nervous & didn't want to meet anyone's eyes, and then realised that I was actually singing to the back of the room. I guess it's projection - I don't do it consciously; I can't speak to the back wall at all (when I acted in school plays I actually found my voice was too soft to carry).

Keeping the tone sweet, or at least pure, isn't a problem; you don't have to bellow. I think intimacy goes out of the window, though - loud and intimate don't go well together.

I'll be interested to hear what other singers think.

Subject: RE: Can You Hit the Wall...?
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 08:09 AM

Will Fly - your image of a 'libidinous growl' made me laff. Is that a traditional mating call for Folk Werewolves?

Cheers for thorticles thus far peeps.

Subject: RE: Can You Hit the Wall...?
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 08:41 AM

Sleepy Rosie:
Will Fly - your image of a 'libidinous growl' made me laff. Is that a traditional mating call for Folk Werewolves?

D'you know, I've just realised that the hairs on the back of my hand are getting longer... There's a sad specimen of the libidinous growl at:
She Ain't Rose

Listen and weep.

Subject: RE: Can You Hit the Wall...?
From: Nick
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 08:50 AM

I went for a first singing lesson last night with my wife and Dick Miles' suggestion was one of the very first exercises that we did. The lesson was very much about starting to develop a decent technique (we both sing but both want to me much better) and a large chunk of the time was spent getting some basics about posture and the beginnings of breathing.

Very interesting stuff.

Subject: RE: Can You Hit the Wall...?
From: Gurney
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 12:43 AM

An old trick is to pick someone who looks nice near the back, and sing to them, for a start, anyway.

Subject: RE: Can You Hit the Wall...?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 09:02 AM

Yes, I suppose I can hit the wall. Last Sunday, after church, I amused the Conservatory students with my imitation of Barry Manilow. (I kept it mercifully short.)

But keep this in mind. When we are doing our utmost, we are most likely to lose control. When rushing down stairs, we are most likely to fall. When running full out, we are most likely to hit a crack in the sidewalk and stumble. And when singing as really loud, we are most likely to go out of tune or find that we can't get off the last note.

Most well-known singers of today are singing too loud and too hard. Don't use them as a role model.

Recently I was in an Office Depot, and I commented to the young clerk that the music in the store was really ugly. I particularly noticed some female, belting no known vowel, flat. 'That's Christina Aquilera,' he said. 'I don't like her either.'

Subject: RE: Can You Hit the Wall...?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 12:03 PM

When we are doing our utmost, we are most likely to lose control.

I don't agree at all. Projecting doesn't equal singing loud, & loud doesn't equal 'as loud as possible'. When I start a song, it knows where it wants to go, & I do my utmost to get it there - which may involve lots of ornamentation, may involve lots of bellowing and may involve neither.

Subject: RE: Can You Hit the Wall...?
From: Mrs Scarecrow
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 01:31 PM

I agree , I may start a song with a bellow if I am singing in a crowded or noisy place but as soon as I have got peoples attetion I reduce the volume as of course the notes are sweeter but I also find it encourages people to remain quieter to listen

Subject: RE: Can You Hit the Wall...?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 01:58 PM

Damn! Rosie's questions are making me more and more self-conscious. Eveything you ask, while being legitimate and useful makes me wonder "Arrgghhh do I do that or not do this as I should?"

Makes it doubly hard because having a head cold that's just moved to chest is preventing me from testing things out.

Cough sputter. Well maybe by the time I am well enough to sing these threads and my memory of them will have passed into the mists.

Subject: RE: Can You Hit the Wall...?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 01:59 PM

Go busking.

Even in a street environment that is relatively quiet, you need both volume asnd projection to make yourself heard. When you catch the eye of a halfway-interested listener who is not yet very close by, it'll be natural for you to find a way to reach him/her as best you can.

The next step, if you're up to it, is to "reel 'em in" with your irrestible vocal artistry.

Subject: RE: Can You Hit the Wall...?
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 03:24 PM

Oopsy, Sorry Virginia Tam my deary! But this particular question is one that struck me as pertinant, from listening to my recorded voice and wondering, err 'am I loud enough for a bigger space' and trying uncertain experiments with volume or projection (sorry guys, I'm not sure I know *experientially* exactly what the diff. is as yet) to figure it out.

With a bit of practice and some helpful advice, I do hope to get a better grasp of it. Though I wouldn't worry yourself overmuch about it all, 'cos you're alway's gonna sound like total bluddy crap to someone. And especially if you wanna sing in public, then those people are inevitably gonna tell you so too..! ;-)

Rosie the inquisitive

Subject: RE: Can You Hit the Wall...?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 04:43 PM

well...reading this thread was worth it just hear Will Fly sing "She Ain't Rose"!

Wonderful song and fine singing & picking!