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BS: Gun ban - yep already

Big Mick 19 Nov 08 - 03:42 PM
Skivee 19 Nov 08 - 03:39 PM
Rapparee 19 Nov 08 - 03:27 PM
Skivee 19 Nov 08 - 03:22 PM
gnu 19 Nov 08 - 03:00 PM
wysiwyg 19 Nov 08 - 02:50 PM
olddude 19 Nov 08 - 02:50 PM
gnu 19 Nov 08 - 02:41 PM
Rapparee 19 Nov 08 - 02:30 PM
jeffp 19 Nov 08 - 01:58 PM
MaineDog 19 Nov 08 - 01:29 PM
kendall 19 Nov 08 - 01:17 PM
katlaughing 19 Nov 08 - 01:16 PM
GUEST,hg 19 Nov 08 - 01:07 PM
Escapee 19 Nov 08 - 12:38 PM
olddude 19 Nov 08 - 12:36 PM
George Papavgeris 19 Nov 08 - 12:31 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 19 Nov 08 - 12:28 PM
olddude 19 Nov 08 - 12:25 PM
pdq 19 Nov 08 - 12:11 PM
bobad 19 Nov 08 - 12:09 PM
olddude 19 Nov 08 - 11:55 AM
GUEST,heric 19 Nov 08 - 11:30 AM
pdq 19 Nov 08 - 11:29 AM
GUEST,heric 19 Nov 08 - 11:22 AM
GUEST,heric 19 Nov 08 - 11:17 AM
Greg F. 19 Nov 08 - 11:12 AM
Barry Finn 19 Nov 08 - 11:03 AM
wysiwyg 19 Nov 08 - 10:21 AM
katlaughing 19 Nov 08 - 10:10 AM
Steve in Idaho 19 Nov 08 - 09:58 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: Big Mick
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 03:42 PM

Would someone be so kind as to define "assault weapon" for me? Please provide some detail. Is it the type of round? Muzzle velocity? Appearance? Ammunition/clip capacity?

I am sincere in asking this. I know what I consider to be an "assault weapon", but I am curious what it is that those of you in favor of sensible regulation would define it as being.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: Skivee
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 03:39 PM

Rap, doesn't that burn the sauce? ...The flamethrower, not the grenade launcher.
My daddy was a deerhunter. I recall that he prefered an AR-15 with NATO rounds and the extended clip. Maybe he liked seeing the deer twitch; but to tell the truth, I got tired of having to eat around all that lead.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 03:27 PM

Well, when I go deer or elk hunting I generally shoot the critter with my M-79 grenade launcher (as I've gotten older my shooting aim has been getting worse, so I've accepted by failings) and then, when it's down, I cook 'er up with my flamethrower. One tank shoots a stream of barbecue sauce and the other the napalm to cook it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: Skivee
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 03:22 PM

Have deer gotten so tough in Idaho that Steve needs to "pre-tenderize" the meat?


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: gnu
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 03:00 PM

Jaysus! If they restrict bazookas, what's next? Bodhrans?


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 02:50 PM

...they're not gonna let me have a bazooka under any circumstances....

Oh DARN! Them's out, too?

:~)

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: olddude
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 02:50 PM

Rapaire
I have one also, with the original bayonet, but I found trying to bayonet the big buck was a real challange !!


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: gnu
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 02:41 PM

I take "assault rifle" to mean a machine pistol in the context that Kendall is talking about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 02:30 PM

Geez, I come back from the shooting range to find this!

Yes, this morning. With three of my staff, who make up part of the Library's shooting team.

Pistols. Semiautomatic .22s, firing at targets 35 feet away today. PAPER targets. It's building self-reliance, self-confidence, pushing them outside their "comfort zones" in a safe manner, and most importantly, welding them into a team. (Two of the people, the Childrens' Librarian and one of the Reference Supervisors, have purchased their own pistols.)

And I HAVE a military assault rifle. It's a US Rifle, Caliber 30, Model of 1917, made in mid-May 1918. It will fire six rounds as fast as I can work the bolt and then I have to attach the bayonet and charge.

Kat, what you remember is your father using a single-action revolver (one you have to cock each time you shoot). Perhaps the most famous one is the "Colt 45" or "Peacemaker". He might also have been firing a double-action revolve (one where you can make it fire without manually cocking it) as a single-action.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: jeffp
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 01:58 PM

Civil Liberties types have made sure that most distateful literature cannot be prohibited.

Like Madison, Monroe, Adams, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: MaineDog
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 01:29 PM

Barry, if you use your assault rifle correctly, there will be no witnesses, that's why!
MD


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: kendall
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 01:17 PM

I AM A STAUNCH SUPPORTER OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT, damn caps lock!but I am unable to understand why anyone needs an assault rifle. Paranoia? small willy?


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 01:16 PM

Ban ignorance and economic injustice if you want to reduce crime...that's something the GOP has ignored for years. It would work, but they would all cry about socialism/communism/ad naseumisms for years to come.

I do not remember my dad's six-shooter shooting like a automatic 9mm I had. One had to cock his six-shooter, then pull the trigger, each time. That's even how they used to show in the old tv shows, called "fanning" if memory serves. Not so on the 9 mil.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 01:07 PM

Many of us old timers know Steve and he has been in and out around here a long time. He is entitled to his opinion.

Having said that I will say I am happy to see such a ban. It is moving in the right direction. The world revolves forward. I'm also against handguns. I have mixed feelings about hunting weapons. I know many individuals still enjoy or need to hunt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: Escapee
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 12:38 PM

Gun-banning politicians are, IMHO, grandstanding charlatans who curry popularity by attacking the straw man " assault weapons" while ignoring the root causes of crime. Ban ignorance and economic injustice if you want to reduce crime.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: olddude
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 12:36 PM

Bobad
you are right, but the homicide rate is 2.4x higher in the US.
http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/Cda-US.htm
the big question is it because of the higher number of guns or something else.   I hear what people are saying about the assult weapons. For me, don't see the need I guess or desire. I don't think it would be a good one to own for deer hunting that I can see. Can't understand why they would sell a manual to convert it to a machine gun on the same table at a gun show. Hey nothing makes sense including the gang members with weapons bulging out of their pants and the police drive on by.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 12:31 PM

"(The AK-47 is)...not much different that the 6 shooter in the 1800s" you say, pdq.
Would you send our soldiers to Afghanistan with six-shooters, then?
Somehow I don't think so, which makes such a statement appear hypocritical, wouldn't you say?

But my main question refers to Steve from Idaho's opening post: In what way is the Bill Mark Kirk introduced indicative of his "not adhering to Republican values"? Please explain.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 12:28 PM

I'll go along with what Wysi said. If I can't stop whoever or whatever it is with the bolt action rifle and pump shotgun I already own, I doubt having an AR is gonna help a damned bit, 'cause the fucker'll probably be drivin' a tank and they're not gonna let me have a bazooka under any circumstances.

Yeah, semi and fully autos are fun to shoot, but ya know what? There's a shootin' range not far from where I live that has all kinds of 'em, perfectly legal and permitted, that they rent by the half-hour. If I feel like my dick's gettin' too small I can go blast hell out of targets over there using their hardware. I don't need to own it myself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: olddude
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 12:25 PM

bobad, I didn't know that, from the stats on one of the TV shows they said it was higher, I believe you. Oh I know I think I got it from the bowling for Colombine movie where he said it was higher.

PDQ you are correct, just don't know why people would buy it unless they intend to make it fully auto don't you think?

People can legally own a machine gun, you need a special permit but you can get one. I knew a guy in PA with a FFL license to own one back in the 70's who had a fully auto thompson and would rake an old car he parked on the back side of his property. But he was legal and wouldn't hurt a fly just enjoyed it for some reason.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: pdq
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 12:11 PM

"...on the table next to it for 8 bucks is a manual to convert it to fully auto..."

Maybe so, but buying the pamphlet is not a crime. Civil Liberties types have made sure that most distateful literature cannot be prohibited.

Buying the AK-47 is not a crime in most of the US. It is just another rifle that fires one round each time you depress the trigger. Not much different that the "6 shooter" in the 1800s.

Crime and not committed until the AK-47 is converted to automatic (=machine gun status) or until it is used to threaten people, hurt people or damage property.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: bobad
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 12:09 PM

Canada per person has more firearms than the US.

According to this site: http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/TheCaseForGunControl.html#intl gun ownership per person in the US is 3.3 times greater than in Canada.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: olddude
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 11:55 AM

I agree that the need is to enforce the laws we have. I could care less about an AK-47, I have owned firearms my entire life and licensed to conceal carry in 26 states due to the interstate agreements on permits. (and I never ever carry a firearm , never -although licensed to do so). I only took the permits to make it easier to do some target shooting which I don't do anymore anyway.

In NY it is a 5 year felony to carry a handgun without a license. But you can go to Buffalo any day of the week and see street gangs with the weapons bulging from their pants and no one bothers to arrest them. Nothing makes sense. They keep passing laws they don't enforce law after law using it as an excuse that they are doing something about it. The violence continues.

Also go to a gun show, see an AK-47 for sale, and on the table next to it for 8 bucks is a manual to convert it to fully auto is insane also. I would give up every firearm I ever owned if I thought it would make the country safer. I hate assult weapons, don't know why anyone would want one. Gald to see them go, but before any more laws, lets enforce the ones we have and go after those commiting the crimes. Canada per person has more firearms than the US. Gun violence, almost nill compared to the states, why is that? When someone can figure out why maybe we would have a handle on the violence instead of doing nothing but pass laws they won't enforce. In the meantime want to ban weapons like an AK-47, I don't care, but it will accomplish nothing until we get to the root of the problems that cause the violence


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 11:30 AM

"heartily sick of it" yes we are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: pdq
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 11:29 AM

It seem to me that the term "assault weapon" is a public relations trick. It is a meaningless term that makes a certain group of people angry.

Politicians who want to look like they are working against violence must ban something so they ban a meaningless category of guns.

They should be working to end street gangs, especially the inner city types that deal drugs and guns.

Automatic weapons were banned from the general public in 1934, but most people, when asked to describe an "assault weapon", will describe a machine gun (=automatic weapon). The news media help keep this impression alive because it suits their political agenda, at least the 90% who want guns banned.

John Kerry, during the 2004 campaign, borrowed a set of hunting clothes and a rifle for a goofy photo op. It was to present a visual impression that Kerry was a "regular guy" to the working public. The gun he borrowed had a raised area on the stock that made it technically an illegal assault weapon in many parts of the country. That's how vague and meaningless the term "assault weapon" is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 11:22 AM

Suppoting assualt rifle ownership will never get them back into power:

Ship of fools
Nov 13th 2008
From The Economist print edition

How likely is it that the Republican Party will come to its senses? There are glimmers of hope. Business conservatives worry that the party has lost the business vote. Moderates complain that the Republicans are becoming the party of "white-trash pride".

. . .

The Republicans lost the battle of ideas even more comprehensively than they lost the battle for educated votes, marching into the election armed with nothing more than slogans. Energy? Just drill, baby, drill. Global warming? Crack a joke about Ozone Al. Immigration? Send the bums home. Torture and Guantánamo? Wear a T-shirt saying you would rather be water-boarding. Ha ha. During the primary debates, three out of ten Republican candidates admitted that they did not believe in evolution.

. . .

John Stuart Mill once dismissed the British Conservative Party as the stupid party. Today the Conservative Party is run by Oxford-educated high-fliers who have been busy reinventing conservatism for a new era. As Lexington sees it, the title of the "stupid party" now belongs to the Tories' transatlantic cousins, the Republicans.

There are any number of reasons for the Republican Party's defeat on November 4th. But high on the list is the fact that the party lost the battle for brains. Barack Obama won college graduates by two points, a group that George Bush won by six points four years ago. He won voters with postgraduate degrees by 18 points. And he won voters with a household income of more than $200,000—many of whom will get thumped by his tax increases—by six points. John McCain did best among uneducated voters in Appalachia and the South.



http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displayStory.cfm?source=most_commented&story_id=12599247&fsrc=nwlgafree


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 11:17 AM


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 11:12 AM

It is this kind of stuff [a bill to reinstate the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act] that lost the Republican majority in Congress...

No, Steve, its YOUR kind of lunatic, fear-mongering, unthinking NRA-style bullshit that helped lose the Republican majority in Congress.

Thankfully, most of the U.S. is getting heartily sick of it- as the recent election indicates. With any luck, the Republicans have learned
a lesson & are taking steps to once more become a mainstream party instead of the resort of fundagelicals & right-wing nutcases.

No rational human being needs (or would want) an assault rifle. And no, I'm not one of those "gun-grabbing Democrats"- I own long guns, handguns, black-powder weapons both muzzle-loading & cartridge. And I see no problem with sensible firearms legislation.

The best (only decent?) thing George Bush senior ever did was send back his NRA Life Membership Card & tell them to shove it. (As did I some six months later).

Lord Help ya,

Greg


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: Barry Finn
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 11:03 AM

Steve, what's your reasoning against banning assult rifes?
I just can't fathom their use for the general public, of course I grew up in the inner city where there were more firearms than I've ever seen in the past 20 yrs of country living.

Barry


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 10:21 AM

Good reply, Kat. REAL good.

THIS Christian will defend her home and property quite well with her legal handgun, thank you very much, IF the Lord actually prompts me to fire when the day comes. An assault rifle-- that's for those who lack aim, a calm eye, foresight, and a plan-- not to mention the spiritual gift of Discernment.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 10:10 AM

They introduced this bill in June while their prez was still in office, as he still is...has nothing to do with President-Elect Obama, at this point. You might want to check for more balanced sources. Click Here That link has a copy of the bill which spells out exactly what they mean by "assault weapons."

Finally, do you not see any strange juxtaposition in your "blessing" while projecting an image of a rather angry man waving an assault weapon, even if it be "virtually?"


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Subject: BS: Gun ban - yep already
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 09:58 AM

For those who thought it was way down the road - copied from another site but it's short -

November 17, 2008
Assault Weapons Ban Introduced...by Five R.I.N.O.s
Define R.I.N.O.: A Republican In Name Only.

Examples of the type of Republican covered under this definition are:

Rep. Mark Kirk [R-IL]
Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen [R-FL]
Rep. Michael Ferguson [R-NJ]
Rep. Christopher Shays [R-CT]
Rep. Michael Castle [R-DE]

These five supposed Republican are nothing more than jackasses in elephant's clothing. Rep. Mark Kirk has introduced a bill, H.R. 6257: Assault Weapons Ban Reauthorization Act of 2008, which would "reinstate the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act." The bill has been co-sponsored by the other four jackasses listed above. All of them claim to be Republicans.

All of them need to leave the party.

Seriously.

Go.

We don't need your kind anymore. It is this kind of stuff that lost the Republican majority in Congress. No, not this particular issue, but the failure to adhere to Republican values in general. If you want to behave like a gun-grabbing Democrat, go sit on their side. It is better that the Republicans be in the minority, but true to conservative values than to be in the majority with no clear values at all.

The problem with gun violence isn't that law abiding citizens have access to assault weapons (whatever that means.) It's that criminals use them to commit crimes. Read that last sentence. Commit crimes is the key part of that sentence. Having these guns be illegal will not limit the criminal's access to them. It will only make them better armed than their victims.

I found out about this through the Jawa Report, who saw it on The Arsenal. Tip of the hat to both of them.

By the way, the phone number to Rep. Kirk's office is 202-225-4835. Let him know how you feel about his actions.

I also noticed that the UK folks are now losing their rights to some other weapons - pretty good demonstration going on there -

Lord Bless ya
Steve


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