Radio 2 Awards

Subject: Radio 2 Awards
From: SunrayFC
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 03:00 PM

I see these awards are still being shared out among those in the "club".

So many performers overlooked.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 03:21 PM

As any fule no, I hold no brief whatsoever for Smoothops or R2 (whoever's running it). But, bearing in mind the remit, I can't see how anyone could quarrel with the nominations for the
2009 Folk Awards. Hands up anyone who hasn't heard any of them? (Over and over . . . ?) Thought not.

Except perhaps the absence of Mawkin:Causley.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 03:25 PM

Just reread the nominations properly.
M:C are indeed tucked onto the end of Best "Groups".
Hurrah.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: henryclem
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 05:20 PM

And what about Tom McConville being nominated? Master musician and a really good bloke too!
Brilliant.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 05:20 PM

I am with Diane on this one. They all seem to be gigging musicians wqho work hard across a variety of venues large and small.

The ones I would have added are mainly Scottish and they have their own awards - why not go and vote for any you might have heard of... A bit like the licensing act really - why we need one system in Scotland (where people can have music in pubs with no concept of "regulated entertainment" and vote for their own folk awards) and one in England where you need a license to sing and can't vote for your own folk awards) I will never know.

Not bad that - two hits in one sentence......fortunately I am 50% English/Scottish.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 11:49 PM

I concur with Diane and Dave. One of the most satisfying sets of lists in recent years.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: armanaya
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 08:19 AM

There is a young band who are constantly playing to full houses, being re-booked year after year, whose CD outsold all other artists at Shrewsbury Festival this year but are still constantly ignored by Smooth Ops and the BBC Radio2 folk programme!!!

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 08:41 AM

You're not on George! Aside from that obvious oversight I agree it is a good pread.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 09:36 AM

Yes I agree about Kerfuffle.

Having said that I understand they are not gigging for the next few months.

But I play them a lot on my radio programme.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 09:49 AM

The band were Young Folk Award finalists four years ago, I think. I believe at least two of them have finals coming up but I'd imagine they (or some, personnel changes notwithstanding) will be doing next summer's festivals.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 09:51 AM

And yes, Ge0rge Papavgeris should get a nomination for Best Original Song one year soon.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: Silas
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 10:00 AM

Assuming that Georges' song IS one of the best original songs of course.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 10:18 AM

I rather think Smoothops will be very careful not to let a nomination for Best TRADITIONAL song to slip though, even if El Greko does produce a video complete with a bimbo and a wind machine.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: armanaya
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 11:35 AM

Kerfuffle will be gigging next year as will Hannah and Sam as a duo - performing different material from a new CD to be released around Easter (They are both full time musicians now and able to take on more work than other Kerfuffle members)

They will be a break from January to May as Hannah going to the Sibelius Accedemy in Helsinki but will be returning for gigs at Easter.

Back to the thread - Performers could ignore the awards if they did not have such a big impact on gigs, CD sales and musicians earnings - perhaps they should drop the whole idea, we used to manage OK without them!

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 11:39 AM

It speaks volumes that Kerfuffle were identified without being named!
No reason why their latest album shouldn't have been nominated along with my album of the year so far, Brian Peter's "Songs of Trial and Triumph", but then we all have our personal choices.
Great to see Tom McConville in there however.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 11:54 AM

What about the Boat Band for young and up and coming?

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 12:13 PM

I just need the bimbo, Diane - Nessie accuses me of being a wind machine.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 12:14 PM

As in "full of hot air", I mean!

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 12:14 PM

Oh dear, I'll stop digging...

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: Silas
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 12:24 PM

Hey George, you could wrire a song about that - you never know, next years awards?

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 04:16 PM

Kerfuffle were a bit easy to spot. In fact the only people who don't recognise them as one of the best bands around are Smoothiechops.

Despite a smoothieperson raving about them three years ago when they showcased at the AFO conference. C'est La Vie......

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 04:37 PM

Yes, well, no-one actually thought any of the other otherwise ignored Shrewsbury bookings were who you meant . . .

Having just been sounding off at eceilidh on the raised subject of lack of a specific dance category (since that one-off aberration that Whapweasel won), I thought I'd bring it here.

Lots of this year's nominations do ceilidhs (either as a band or in different combinations) e.g. Faustus Mawkin, Lau, bits of Bellowhead, Chris Wood (& Andy Cutting), Demon Barbers. And, of course, they all do many other things and play across a variety of venues.

So, is this a Good Thing or ought there to be a separate (and permanent) dance band nomination category?

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 04:44 PM

I also think a dance band category would be welcome. It feels like something that's missing.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 05:15 AM

Picking up on one of Armanayas' comments, these awards should not be taken lightly. This very serious stuff, particularly for those at the beginning of their career. Over on Longdogs, Bob Barrows notes "...several musicians talked about their CD sales and gig signings quadrupling (and more) after winning or being nominated for these (and the Mercury) awards. So, despite the lack of attention I pay to awards when deciding on how I will spend my entertainment dollar, it seems that many people actually do pay attention, and it's quite a coup to be included in the nominations, and quite a blow to be left off." This is often the key to a much wider profile and, indeed, the difference between earning a living wage or not, for some artists.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 06:22 AM

I think a dance band category would be an excellent thing. Considering these are folk awards, and that 90% of instrumental music played by folk outfits is dance music, it would give a good extra dimension to the awards. It's a basic function of folk music to supply dance music for weddings, birthday parties, seasonal celebrations,Saturday night thrashes etc etc.Giving an award to bands who are actually capable of fulfilling this function would be excellent: any fool can sit on a concert stage and play for listening.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 07:15 AM

Perhaps a festival organiser like Ruth will come on after the AFO conference is over and tell us what sort of difference she (or he thinks it makes to an artist's career.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: GUEST,Tom Sweeney
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 08:03 AM

armanaya: I don't know who you are, but you may well know more about what I'm doing with my life next year than I do!

DaveS: Glad you like "To The Ground"; we're proud of it. The next Kerfuffle album should emerge late 2009/early 2010, all things being equal.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 08:44 AM

I think that awards do help promoters, and therefore help bands to get gigs. For instance, the lineup for Loughborough was all done and dusted last year by the time the nominations were announced, but I put out a press release noting the number of nominations (and eventually wins) that our artists had received - and it was a lot. I think this can help to convey to a potential audience the quality of the lineup.

I just learned that one of the acts I've booked for Sidmouth 2009, Genticorum, have won Best Album at the Canada Folk Awards. This is helpful in publicising the band, because audiences who don't know them and may be unfamiliar with French Canadian music might be persuaded to give them a try because they've won a prestigious award. Again, it's that stamp of quality.

I wouldn't let the lack of a nomination dissuade me from booking someone, though. I think Kerfuffle are a top band, and I very much hope to have them on board for Sidmouth 2009. I have my own theories about why they don't get enough credit and kudos for what they do, which has a lot to do with industry politics, and this isn't the right forum for that discussion. :)

I am not involved in the recording industry, but I'm sure that someone who is could confirm the diference a nomination makes to CD sales.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: cloudstreet
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 09:14 AM

A very likeable list.

We only have one award in Australia and that's for the most cds sold on the festival circuit.

One question, does "smooth operator" have the same meaning in the UK as it does in Australia, as in "one prone to sharp practice", a bit "spivvy"?

Just asking...

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 09:38 AM

Hi John (or is it Nic)

Err - yes!

Txx

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: GUEST,Tom Again
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 10:08 AM

Actually maybe I should explain that John (and Nick, I think) used to be in a band called Telephone Bill and the Smooth Operators - so the joke originated with them.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: Mad Spaniel
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 11:21 AM

agreed a good list but if you look at the artist list closely there is a common thread! and a certain link between them all

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 11:24 AM

I agree with Ruth about Genticorum and they will be at Shepley Spring Festival first - (in May 2009 that is along with Edward II and the Red Hot Chili Pipers and tons of other top line acts.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: greg stephens
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 11:53 AM

What link, Mr Spaniel? I am intrigued.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 12:01 PM

I gave up on the Smooth Ops Awards, after they banned Show of Hands after the first ever Public Vote, "because, they'd just keep winning", as their 'host' Mel, said, on the BBC Radio 2 board.

After that, they changed the voting system.

Total crap way to do a public vote.

Sorry, but if your public votes for you, they vote because you're damned good, because you've worked damned hard to get where you are and because one helluva lot of people take the time and the trouble to make sure that the artists who they respect the most, get the Award they richly deserve.

I thought it was the most disgusting behaviour I've ever seen, but hey, it was done by Smooth Ops, the company who's 'Customer Care' department used to have a photo of him sticking two fingers up at his er..customers, so what else should I expect?


Show of Hands, the Banned Band...and Longdogs, The Banned Band's Banned Fans.


You couldn't make it up really, could you.

And Kerfuffle are grand. Saw them a while back now, at Abbotsbury, as guests of Show of Hands, on their Family Day Gig down there in those beautiful gardens.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 12:03 PM

Oh, and have Smooth Ops taken the decision to tell the public WHO the 'judges' actually are, yet?

Or is it still, after so many years, cloaked in darkness?

If so, why?

WHY are they so frightened to tell us who the judges are?

Answers on a postcard to:

Bemused of Sidmouth

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 02:10 PM

There is no specific undertaking from the judges not to reveal their identities, but it is possible that they choose not to, and that the BBC does not publish a list of those selected, in order to prevent undue lobbying on behalf of potential nominees and winners by PR, agents, labels etc. Many awards ceremonies are notorious for this.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: greg stephens
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 02:41 PM

Given the rather intemperate nature of some folkies who appear on forums of this kind, I think that if I were a judge in some awards competition I would be very inclined to keep quiet about it. There are certain people I would not relish to be emailed by every day, or be rung up by them at three in the morning and berated.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 02:43 PM

And I tried to get the BBC to reveal the names under the Freedom if Information Act.

To no avail.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: greg stephens
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 02:48 PM

While I think the judges might well be entitled to there privacy, I should just love to see the trades of all the people on the panel. I have always felt a few musicians might not be a bad idea.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 04:37 PM

One thing I'm not too happy about myself is that some panel members ARE out, and some of these do get quite a bit of lobbying (as do some who are decidedly not out - but whose identities are known to some lobbyists - by some unknown means, possibly just guesswork). Most panellists don't take the lobbying very seriously and can, I'm sure, be trusted to make up their own minds, but there may be a few who are more easily swayed - possibly because they don't follow folk music very closely. That sounds critical, but some people may be expert in one field, so happy to nominate in that one category, but may feel a bit lost in another area (and I have talked to panellists who've made this point).

Another problem is that Out Panellists may only be out to a few of the lobbyists (usually those with a longer term business interest to whom it's worth doing the detective and collation work), giving those interests an advantage over artists who haven't a clue who to contact. Given that you can get a nomination with only single figures of votes, you might get you a result by lobbying just ten 'soft targets' - and that's not ideal, obviously.

It would be good to remove this weakness - either by recruiting a totally new panel (almost impossible, as most 'experts' are on the list) and making it an 'offence' to out yourself, difficult to police - and what would you do about leaks) or by outing everyone and providing contact details for all - and so deliver a level playing field. Which is not a great option either, really.

Whatever system you use you'll find flaws - which is why I support having a really big panel, and a named, responsible committee who make the nominations (like in the mercury) based on their expert knowledge from the suggestions thrown up by the panel (influenced but not constrained by the votes) - who then do vote properly on the nominations made by the committee to select the winners.

Then it's a fix - but a fair, open fix, with a nicely democratic element, with decisions made transparently, by accountable experts, who can defend their decisions if questioned.

Best of all worlds IMHO

Tom

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 06:43 PM

Of course Smooth Ops won a Sony Radio award for the Radio Ballad "Song of Steel".

This is how they judge the Sony radio Awards - very similar to Tom's suggestions...............

http://www.radioawards.org/judges/

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: JHW
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 04:08 PM

Remember they are only the Radio 2 Folk Awards, not THE Folk Awards

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Awards
From: cloudstreet
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 05:45 PM

Meanwhile, back at Mad Spaniel's assertion - what's the link?