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neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.

Fred McCormick 13 Jun 11 - 08:03 AM
GUEST,Craig 13 Jun 11 - 06:37 AM
TheSnail 27 Feb 09 - 06:08 AM
heatherblether 21 Feb 09 - 03:31 PM
Fred McCormick 21 Feb 09 - 02:23 PM
TheSnail 21 Feb 09 - 02:16 PM
High Hopes (inactive) 21 Feb 09 - 02:07 PM
Stringsinger 21 Feb 09 - 02:00 PM
Fred McCormick 21 Feb 09 - 06:54 AM
Rifleman (inactive) 20 Feb 09 - 02:31 PM
Sleepy Rosie 20 Feb 09 - 02:28 PM
Don Firth 20 Feb 09 - 02:22 PM
Stringsinger 20 Feb 09 - 02:15 PM
Rifleman (inactive) 20 Feb 09 - 12:51 PM
Fred McCormick 20 Feb 09 - 12:38 PM
Rifleman (inactive) 20 Feb 09 - 12:08 PM
Fred McCormick 20 Feb 09 - 09:16 AM
Bryn Pugh 20 Feb 09 - 09:03 AM
Fred McCormick 20 Feb 09 - 08:54 AM
TheSnail 20 Feb 09 - 07:48 AM
Fred McCormick 12 Dec 08 - 08:42 AM
Big Al Whittle 11 Dec 08 - 06:16 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Dec 08 - 05:37 PM
Fred McCormick 11 Dec 08 - 07:40 AM
Big Al Whittle 11 Dec 08 - 06:56 AM
Leadfingers 11 Dec 08 - 06:47 AM
Big Al Whittle 11 Dec 08 - 06:35 AM
Big Al Whittle 01 Dec 08 - 08:12 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Dec 08 - 04:36 PM
Richard Bridge 01 Dec 08 - 02:27 PM
Big Al Whittle 01 Dec 08 - 01:45 PM
Bryn Pugh 01 Dec 08 - 04:41 AM
Big Al Whittle 30 Nov 08 - 07:21 PM
Ruth Archer 30 Nov 08 - 07:05 PM
The Sandman 30 Nov 08 - 07:03 PM
Ruth Archer 30 Nov 08 - 07:00 PM
TheSnail 30 Nov 08 - 06:56 PM
Phil Edwards 30 Nov 08 - 06:49 PM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Nov 08 - 06:18 PM
The Borchester Echo 30 Nov 08 - 05:34 PM
Vic Smith 30 Nov 08 - 05:28 PM
Big Al Whittle 30 Nov 08 - 05:21 PM
The Borchester Echo 30 Nov 08 - 04:41 PM
hal2 30 Nov 08 - 10:28 AM
Jack Blandiver 30 Nov 08 - 10:23 AM
Phil Edwards 30 Nov 08 - 09:51 AM
Big Al Whittle 29 Nov 08 - 06:26 AM
GUEST,Jack Campin 29 Nov 08 - 04:47 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 29 Nov 08 - 04:42 AM
The Borchester Echo 29 Nov 08 - 04:27 AM
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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 08:03 AM

The good news is that the Excalibur warehouse no longer exists, and the BNP has been reduced to selling a much reduced stock, from a box number in Leicestershire if I recall correctly. Somewhere in the Midlands at any rate. However, the rest of the organisation will follow Excalibur by exploding/imploding/disappearing up its own agenda before much longer.

Amongst other things, they no longer seem to be selling any folk CDs, although you can still find gollywogs, British Bulldog badges and the 2010 BNP manifesto on their bargain basement tat page.

The bad news is that, among the few books they are are still selling is Steve Roud's The English Year; presumably in the mistaken belief that it is something about Englishness.

I emailed Steve and told him. Naturally he was appalled but felt that nothing he could do would persuade Penguin to stop selling their wares to organisations like the BNP.

However, as he pointed out, the book actually contains quite a lot about the calendar customs of the various immigrant groups who have come to make Britain their home. Doubtless, the BNP would have realised that if they'd bothered to thumb through the book before ordering it.

But if you think that was dumb, get a load of the blurb, as it appears on their website:-

"This enthralling statement will take you, month-by-month, day-by-day, through all the festivities of English life. From national celebrations such as New Year's Eve to regional customs such as the Padstow Hobby Horse procession, cheese rolling in Gloucestershire and Easter Monday bottle kicking in Leeds, it explains how they originated, what they mean and when they occur."

This enthralling account is lifted almost word for word from the publisher's blurb, but here's the undeliberate mistake. The Penguin correctly identifies the location of the bottle kicking as Hallaton in Leicestershire, but in the Excalibur version, Hallaton becomes Leeds. That, my friends, is just the latest in the long running saga of the BNP getting absolutely everything wrong. I still wake up laughing at the thought of the 20 million leaflets they printed with the wrong phone number on.

So Craig, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a royalty cheque from the BNP. If they've remembered to pay up, and thats a bif "if", they probably sent it to the Beatles by mistake.

Personally, if I ever received a cheque from the BNP I'd wipe my arse on it and send it back.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: GUEST,Craig
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 06:37 AM

My song Lady Whisky is on one of those Best of British Folk Album. Note the politically charged lyrics below.

Whisky, whisky I loved you tae well
Promised me heaven wi' a wee kiss and tell
Ye'll aye be the lady in good company
My Lady Whisky, whisky and me

When first we met you were bonnie and blithe
Warming ma heart wi' yer waters o' life
You're ay the cure for the trouble and strife
It's whisky today and whisky tonight

When I picked you up you were golden and gay
Breath sweet as heather on a morning in May
We kissed and we kissed till night turned to day
Singing whisky tomorrow, whisky today

Now you have gone you bold courtesan
You're tasting the lips o' every young man
And just to kiss you it's silver to pay
Singing whisky tomorrow, whisky today


I was told by my distributor that the song had been requested for a 'Best of' CD and the cheque would be in the post. Naturally, as a full time musician you don't ask any questions when people are giving you money. In this case as far as I knew and still believe the company are simply a legitmate non political company selling records. The Excalibur team must have bought a load of CD's from them I suppose and to me they have two agendas at least - make money, promulgate a political view.

I think these things happen and I find myself with a lot of contradictory feelings about it but mostly I am too busy trying to survive as a musician to do anything about these feelings. I've played occasionally at Political meetings in Germany - the last one was a Private Party for the Green Party where me and my colleague unwittingly sang 'The Bonnie Ship the Diamond'.

The question of politics and music is one that I find challenging. I love music and I find I can operate at two levels. I like 'Jerusalem' for example, beautiful English tune but I don't really identify with the image of Jesus strolling around England having a quiet word with the boys at Eton. I love The Foggy Dew. Superb lyrics, beautiful tune, I also like Johnnie Cope a mixed a jeering rant about n Italian Prince fighting a German chap's lackey. In the case of the latter songs I feel sad when I think of people dying in those conflicts. Very sad. There are plenty of songs I like to hear but wouldn't sing.

Sometimes I dislike the idea that music is used as a political vehicle and at other times I feel that's a good thing. In the midst of Thatcher's era people singing derogatory songs seemed quite a good idea and I was doing it myself. Perhaps to an extent it depends on the depth of feeling behind the song and the singers and the time and place. Music is clearly a means of vocalizing and expressing feelings one of which would be the feeling of what is right and what is wrong.

I think an artist has got to paint what he or she feels and this is drawn from the inner part of his or her being - then perhaps the artist has to deal with what others do with the music.

Incidentally, I'm still waiting for a cheque for Lady Whisky and I suspect if it does come it'll pay for about one glass of laphroaig.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: TheSnail
Date: 27 Feb 09 - 06:08 AM

When I first looked at the Excalibur site, they included CDs by Canadian singer Heather Dale. I contacted Heather and have now received this reply which I pass on with her permission -

Hello Bryan, and thanks for writing. I was made aware of this several years ago and have discussed it with the company involved. The people at Excalibur are aware that I am not a supporter of their affiliations, and will not allow my work to be represented in any political or social activist fashion. The company purchased the CDs to resell them before I was aware of their reputation; I expect they will continue to sell them until they have depleted their stock. I appreciate your email... all the best... Cheers, Heather.
==============
HEATHER DALE
www.HeatherDale.com
==============


Her CDs have now gone from Excalibur's catalogue.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: heatherblether
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 03:31 PM

The BNP was founded in the early 1980s by John Tyndall out of the ruins of the equally racist and violent National Front.
John Tyndall was a horrible,vile thug of a man obsessed with race hatred.
He had a long string of criminal convictions and was an out and out nazi who liked nothing better than parading around the place in full nazi regalia giving the Hitler salute.
This character was Nick Griffin's immediate predecessor.Mudcat readers can see him in full nazi outfit by going to "google images" and typing in his name.
ifor


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 02:23 PM

How do you define "too much credibility"? Would such a definition include their by-election victory in Swanley last night, or the possibility that they might score a victory in the European elections in June? Or would you perchance include all the people who are taken in by their lies and rhetoric, and who have no idea what the BNP really stand for?

It was once said that too much credibility was given to Hitler, but that was a long time ago.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: TheSnail
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 02:16 PM

Don't be too sure. BNP unseats Labour in by-election


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: High Hopes (inactive)
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 02:07 PM

Too much credibility is being given to the BNP with all the attention their actions get. There are far more important things to get angry about in this world of ours


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 02:00 PM

As Lee Hays used to say, "This too will pass. I know, I've had gall stones".


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 06:54 AM

If it was all just gollywogs, sorry, gollys, I'd say it was laughable if it wasn't so funny. However, I saw a tv programme about the BNP recently which showed them trading in a book by David Irving, the Nazi "historian" and holocaust denier. Maybe their search engine isn't up to the mark but I could find nothing by him in their on-line catalogue. What's the chances, I wonder, that they keep the real nasties under the counter and don't tell outsiders about them?

BTW. Where I come from, a golly is a colloquialism for a big dollop of spit. Just reminds me of the BNP that does.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 02:31 PM

The PC Brigade annoy me to no end,the BNP annoy me even more.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 02:28 PM

"I swear I haven't made this up. BNP members can now fortify their love of everything British with golly mugs, golly money boxes, golly pens, golly coasters, golly fridge magnets, golly dolls, golly England supporters and the devil knows what else. All in the name of fighting political correctness."

It couldn't possibly be *more* pathetic, to define their 'love' of Britain and British culture, by mass reproduced formulaic icons of classically non-White/British stereotypes.

Why use such an image, which fails in any way to celebrate native tradition or culture, apart from the most historically ugly imperialistic elements? It's an uttterly cynical and fraudulant call to the increasingly popular 'anti-PC' ("Common Sense Brigade") attitude, which although innocent in nature, is very easily brought on board the fascist agenda by such cheap (good awld dayz) tactics.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 02:22 PM

Exactly so!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Stringsinger
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 02:15 PM

Recent geneticists and scientists have found that the DNA for many people of Irish, Scottish and British descent is similar more than not. They are descended from the same phenotypical roots.

Am I wrong that the BNP stands for the British Nazi Party? I've only heard about it
through you people on Mudcat.

Hitler extolled the virtues of Wagner and classical music has been used to further political agendas for many years. Stalin did the same with banning certain composers, Shostakovich's later works for example.

Bluegrass music festivals in the US often find factions that sport the Confederate Battle Flag.

I support Don T's statement from Nov 08 about always encouraging openness in ideas
and not banning music just because it appears as a tool for ugly groups with agendas.

I believe that music transcends partisan differences even when they are explicit.
I think music can be presented in a historical context where you don't always have
to agree with the song you sing. I would sing Unreconstructed Rebel in the context of a balanced Civil War program. I sing many songs that I don't agree with because they have significance as songs for certain people that are not inciting or destructive. I will sing religious songs that I admire although I am a non-believer. I would be the last to denigrate The Saint Matthew's Passion by Bach or other of his brilliant works. I love
African-American gospel and spirituaIs. I l attempt to avoid songs that denigrate racial or cultural groups and this is a process of skating on thin ice. How can you know in advance who you will offend?

If music is being used to foster a destructive political ideology then I think it's up to the
singer to illuminate its use in a program context and explain that.

Some songs because of their heated associations (sometimes unjustly such as the song
"Dixie") I will purposely avoid. Dixie was stolen by the South during the Civil War.
Daniel Emmett, the composer, would have been chagrined that it was used as a theme song for the South during the war as he supported the Northern Union side.

Many songs are distorted in their meaning by fanatical groups with their agendas.

Some of these types of songs can be used to illuminate as was the song
Tomorrow Belongs to Me which made Cabaret a very powerful statement as a musical.
The show highlighted the decadence that spawned Nazism in Germany.

The ThreePenny Opera did the same thing even more powerfully. Brecht and Weill wanted some of those songs to be offensive to "instruct" people about the need for rational views of society in a dramatic and historical context.

I think that a folk song has a value as a statement in itself and not as a propaganda tool.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 12:51 PM

Then there was the Robertson's Jam golliwog enamel brooch one used to be able to get after saving a certain number of golliwog stickers from jars of jam...oh damn!! I just gave the the British Nutsy Party another idea..oh well!


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 12:38 PM

Excalibur, which is the sales arm of the BNP is located in Deeside, Clwyd, just on the Welsh side of the Queensferry bridge. Perhaps all of us who are concerned at the highjacking of our musical culture by this bunch of intellectually and artistically challenged freaks should go and picket the place.

One interesting line they seem to have added recently, presumably since Carol Thatcher opened her big mouth, is - gollywogs or gollys as they call them. Honest, I swear I haven't made this up. BNP members can now fortify their love of everything British with golly mugs, golly money boxes, golly pens, golly coasters, golly fridge magnets, golly dolls, golly England supporters and the devil knows what else. All in the name of fighting political correctness.

How pathetic can you get?


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 12:08 PM

"There is, however, considerable concern over attempts to hijack the work of well-known artists by the nasty right. Chris Wood, Spiers & Boden. Show of Hands and Maggie Holland"

Phil Beer is quoted somewhere that he was surprised that the expected fall out regarding the far-right and Roots didn't occur (if you're observing this thread Phil, it'd be great if you could verify or deny this)


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 09:16 AM

Mind you, the BNP are right when they say they will need every cent they can raise to fight the European elections. Searchlight have hired Blue State Digital to fight them. BSD organised that famous on-line campaign which played such a key part in getting Obama elected.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 09:03 AM

I endorse this (McGrath, WLD, Fred McCormick) in its entirety.

Ewan had the rights of it when he wrote (Jamie Foyers ?)

" . . . and leave not a fascist alive on the earth . . . ".

My old man (d. 1951) was in the International Brigade.

(I've opened a book on how long it will take the organic matter to contact the air conditioning . . . )


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 08:54 AM

Good for her. May everyone else who's intellectual property has been highjacked by these scumbags take similar action.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: TheSnail
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 07:48 AM

I came across this on a fRoots thread -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/feb/19/vera-lynn-bnp-cd-court

Very heartening.

I notice that the Excalibur catalogue is somewhat reduced.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 08:42 AM

WLD "Fred that's a bit recondite ."

I'd have said abstruse rather than recondite, but I always was awkward. If anyone wants the tune could they PM me with their email address and I'll send them a sound clip.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 06:16 PM

I set it to the tune of an American version of Young Hunting. Ewan MacColl used the same air for his song, Winds of Change, which features in the Radio Ballad, The Travelling People.

Fred that's a bit recondite .

couldn't you just sing the bugger, let us know how it goes.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 05:37 PM

Here's another from me:

Got no use for the BNP
No use to you, no use to me,
Time to time we disagree,
But we got no use for the BNP

Times are hard, it's plain to see,
Hate is spread so easily,
That's the road to misery
We got no use for the BNP

You like coffee, I like tea,
Differences are plain to see
But there's one thing that we agree,
We got no use for the BNP.

Time for solidarity,
All together keeps us free,
Ain't it clear as clear can be,
We got no use for the BNP


Tune more or less that of Coulter's Candy


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 07:40 AM

It's obviously time we started dusting off some of those anti-fascist songs, and creating new ones of course. Here's one I wrote a few years ago.

On the March Again

The banners of intolerance
Fly above the masks of hate.
The chanted taunts and tramping feet
Proclaim the fascist state.
They hail the fascist state.

The boasts of white supremacy,
The myths of racial war.
The lies of Munich and Mein Kampf,
We've heard them all before.
We've heard them all before.

They tore the continent apart;
The would be master race.
And everywhere the jackboot's heel
Ground in the human face.
Ground in the human face.

The whirlwind of the holocaust,
The rage of fear and strife,
The butcher's blade, the driver's lash,
Come crawling back to life.
Come crawling back to life.

The lemmings of humanity,
The legions of insane,
Plunge blindly o'er the precipice.
The rats are on the march again.
They're on the march again.

If anyone wants to sing it, please feel free. I set it to the tune of an American version of Young Hunting. Ewan MacColl used the same air for his song, Winds of Change, which features in the Radio Ballad, The Travelling People.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 06:56 AM

it should be playing in the background.

Is in G rtuning. three or four chords. woody would have written it with two chords only better!


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Leadfingers
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 06:47 AM

Whats the tune for that Al ?


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 06:35 AM

Just wanted to say(if anyone's interested) I got my anti-BNP song finished today
Its here:-
http://www.bigalwhittle.co.uk/id35.html


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 08:12 PM

I can remember in the 1970's ian campbell saying that his phone was being tapped by some sort of government security gang, MI5 or MI6.

One of the major disappointments of the Blair years was that Blair didn't clean out the Augean stables that represents our security forces. If you believe Spycatcher, we never would have had to endure one term of Thatcher if MI5 hadn't been sticking their oar in the democratic process.

the late Barrie Roberts had some sort of intelligence line into the NF, and he told me that the police at the highest level had approached the NF and offered whatever support they could.

All of which suggests - the establishment is very right wing, and they don't like us.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 04:36 PM

A certain ambiguity there, Richard. Do you mean the comments carried on the Torygraph pages or the comments on those comments which have been posted here on the Mudcat?


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 02:27 PM

I'm tickled by the ignorant comments on the Torygraph pages under teh Cecil Sharpe (sic, plainly this woman sees clearly and in depth all parameters of her chosen subject) piece. You can take a horse to music but you can't make it learn.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 01:45 PM

Yes, in the interview, Carthy says (and I think he's spot on) the music has come come full circle. Nowadays its depoliticised.

Which is another way of saying the reality element has been subtracted.

Certainly somebody somewhere along the line has been convincing people that it can be abstracted from its context.

I've heard about the work in schools Brian Peters does telling kids in schools about conditions for children in Victorian factories. It sounds like a valiant effort.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 04:41 AM

I knew the writing was on the wall when I| was hissed at a folk concert for dedicating "The Band Played Waltzing |Matilda" to Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, Generalissimo Leopoldo Galtieri, and the dead of both nations . . .


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Nov 08 - 07:21 PM

Got no beef with Steve Knightley - he's lived down the south west and that's how he sees things.

The antebellum thing really hit the ground running in the 1970's. After eric Bogle's massive successes with green Fields of france and the band Played Waltzing matilda. And of course Ralph with Maginot Waltz.

Bill Caddick came up with another epic in The Writing of tiperary.

you couldn't fault these guys - because it was a genuinely fresh perspective, and they were inspired.

by the time Bill was singing I'm in love with a Gibson Girl - I thought it was getting a bit formulaic. Looking back as a discipline. It when I started to despair of folk ever being a mode of expression that I could access. Its still easier for my generation to discuss and write songs about WW1 than The Falklands.

Martin Carthy in a an interview with Guitar magazine's special volume on acoustic players tells of a band getting booed at Cambridge for saying thet Thatcher's role in that campaign was somewhat less than saintly.

We're out of practise when it come comes to telling people - this machine kills fascists. but the fascists still want to kill us.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Nov 08 - 07:05 PM

"An interesting addition to this discussion comes in the form of an article in, of all places, The Telegraph of 23rd November.

Emma Hartley wrote this interesting and provocative piece under the title -

The curious case of BNP leader Nick Griffin and the folk gig

Apart from consistently calling the place that she visited Cecil Sharpe House, she has come up with a challenging and thoughtful piece. "


Oh. My. GOD!
That was the session that took place after the RVW event in October! I remember her! She told me she liked my singing...


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Nov 08 - 07:03 PM

one hopes that the establishment ,and m i5,infiltrate these far right groups in the same way that they have in the past infiltrated left wing and communist groups.
apparently John Gollan s[Communist Party of Great Britain]secretary was an MI5 agent,
and according to the Guardian,Ray Buckton[ASLEF]Union Leader was reporting back on union meetings as well.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Nov 08 - 07:00 PM

Don't worry, Fairport know what's going on as well. I will hopefully be able to give you an update on the state of play with Excalibur tomorrow.

We're trying to get some national press which distances the artists from the BNP's marketing of their work, which they are all distressed about.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: TheSnail
Date: 30 Nov 08 - 06:56 PM

hal2

The Steadfast webpage said the organisation is a registered charity - so I thought - aha - prove 'em wrong/liars.

Unfortunately, the charity comission website shows that they realy are a registred charity.


Indeed, they are. A look at their entry on the register is quite enlightening.

http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/ShowCharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityWithoutPartB.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1105806&Su

Click on Charity framework on the left for their objectives.

There is evidence that suggests the Charity Commission may have regreted their decision. APPLICATIONS FOR THE REGISTRATION OF THE ETHNIC-ENGLISH TRUST AND THE IRONSIDE COMMUNITY TRUST is a long read but some of it is very funny. I recommend paragraph 5.11. There is quite a lot of arguing that White doesn't actuall mean skin colour, it's more a state of mind. These people are essentially the same as the people behind the Steadfast Trust.

For the historically inclined, there is mention of the Malfosse Society. Malfosse is the reputed site of the last stand by the Anglo-Saxon nobility after the death of Harold at Hastings so the message is, if you've got any Norman blood, you're an illegal immigrant.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 30 Nov 08 - 06:49 PM

Like Billy Bragg with "Between the Wars"

I did Between the Wars once when I was getting started on floor spots, & for a long time vaguely thought I ought to bring it out again; I was never really happy with the line about moderation, though. Then my dilemma was solved, because we weren't any more - and we haven't been ever since. Funny old world.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Nov 08 - 06:18 PM

"And I'm suspicious of those who know all the words and sing along with steve at concerts. theres a lot of antebellum nostalgia going on there.

And there's a sort of inherent rejection about the way our country is in the lyrics."


Yes, it really is very suspicious when people know the words of songs and sing along with them at concerts. And there's an awful lot of that goes in in the folk world.

And all this antebellum nostalgia. Like Billy Bragg with "Between the Wars". Or those songs about the Great War.

And you get these people who keep on saying that there are things about the way the country is that they don't like.

Of course you could say that it rather makes a difference what those things they don't like actually are. I mean there's a marginal difference between wishing there weren't any black people here and wishing the BNP and maybe a few other parties would vanish off the face of the earth.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Nov 08 - 05:34 PM

I was just discussing this piece on the nefarious, Europe-wide shenanigans of the nasty right and musical interference, but now that this forum has struggled back into life, the link may as well go on here, for information.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Vic Smith
Date: 30 Nov 08 - 05:28 PM

An interesting addition to this discussion comes in the form of an article in, of all places, The Telegraph of 23rd November.

Emma Hartley wrote this interesting and provocative piece under the title -

The curious case of BNP leader Nick Griffin and the folk gig

Apart from consistently calling the place that she visited Cecil Sharpe House, she has come up with a challenging and thoughtful piece.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Nov 08 - 05:21 PM

We were all(in that generation) in love with American culture glimpsed on the new ITV channel. hawwaiaan Eye and 77 Sunset Strip showed us what real cars were about - huge great shiny monstrosities - not these fussy farty little Morris 1000's that were on our roads.

read Thom Gunn's poem about Elvis - that's how fixated we were.

the poetry of On the Road and raymond chandler and Bob Dylan - it was just so potent.

And when we tried to renew our vitality in that fountain - it had been screwed up, dried up and sour as piss and vinegar.

As Jeff Nuttall said in Bomb Culture - we found out tthat the only freedom for us was to spectate on The Beatles and The stones and see them enjoying their freedom.

Yes we went down to the levvy - yes it was dry.

Haul Away Joe! my arse!


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Nov 08 - 04:41 PM

The Charity Commission was persuaded to withdraw the charitable status of a West London string of charity shops several years ago, once they were made aware of what the funds thus raised were actually for.

Workers at these shops were very reticent when I went to interview them and said only that the takings were collected regularly. I followed one of these "bosses" and was able to identify him to the Charity Commission and the shops were closed down.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: hal2
Date: 30 Nov 08 - 10:28 AM

The Steadfast webpage said the organisation is a registered charity - so I thought - aha - prove 'em wrong/liars.

Unfortunately, the charity comission website shows that they realy are a registred charity.

Nasty


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 30 Nov 08 - 10:23 AM

that the aforementioned earthwork was (in some unspecified way) dry?

Last I heard was that continued precipitation had compromised the integrity of said earthwork with the prospect of consequent homelessness.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 30 Nov 08 - 09:51 AM

Part of our problem we need to sing about life, as is.

I don't think that was Don Maclean's secret. When did you last drive your Chevy to the levee, only to discover that the aforementioned earthwork was (in some unspecified way) dry?


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Nov 08 - 06:26 AM

He's a nice chap Steve Knightley. But I'm not keen on 'Roots' or 'Country Life'. And I'm suspicious of those who know all the words and sing along with steve at concerts. theres a lot of antebellum nostalgia going on there.

And theres a sort of inherent rejection about the way our country is in the lyrics.

I'm sorry if English people like American Pie better than Haul Away Joe.   Haul Away Joe, was in every Singing Together Book in the country; the book was subsidised by the taxpayer, and you got the slipper if you didn't sing it loud enough at school. And still no one much goes around singing it.


American Pie didn't need a subsidy - we, English flocked to buy it in our millions, and paid through several depressions for tickets to see Don sing it.

Similarly with the other song - Country Life. I can't afford to live in a cottage in Cornwall - I've had to go where there there is work, and live where I can afford.

Part of our problem we need to sing about life, as is.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 29 Nov 08 - 04:47 AM

Fairport Convention are probably the highest-profile group to be represented on the Excalibur compilations. They have their own forum, and I think some of the band or their agents monitor it. Maybe it would be an idea to open this discussion there?


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 29 Nov 08 - 04:42 AM

From Diane:

<<<...."we're better than you because we're cleaner and whiter" brigade >>>

Er. you're the *only* one who said that.


From Rosie:

>>> ..I do hope this thread doesn't get derailed by hair pulling and point-scoring exercises, on quite irrelevant side issues. Because there were indeed some interesting embrionic suggestions for real world action that could be taken, and some people onlist were very clear about their desire to become actively involved...<<<

Quite, although some comparisons did need to be drawn, for some folk, Rosie.

And now, I'm dashing to work and dashing off this thread.


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Subject: RE: neo-fascist-folk, please illuminate.
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 Nov 08 - 04:27 AM

if concerned folk artists were to become vocal in some way

They are.
Especially about those who hijack and distort their work.


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