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The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout

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Don Firth 12 Dec 08 - 12:15 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 12 Dec 08 - 12:29 PM
Don Firth 12 Dec 08 - 12:54 PM
Don Firth 12 Dec 08 - 01:00 PM
GUEST,Smokey 12 Dec 08 - 05:54 PM
GUEST,Smokey 12 Dec 08 - 06:01 PM
Don Firth 12 Dec 08 - 06:44 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 12 Dec 08 - 06:49 PM
GUEST,Smokey 12 Dec 08 - 08:09 PM
Don Firth 12 Dec 08 - 08:13 PM
GUEST,Smokey 12 Dec 08 - 08:30 PM
GUEST,Smokey 12 Dec 08 - 09:04 PM
GUEST,Smokey 12 Dec 08 - 09:37 PM
Amos 12 Dec 08 - 11:57 PM
The Borchester Echo 13 Dec 08 - 04:21 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 13 Dec 08 - 05:01 AM
Will Fly 13 Dec 08 - 05:16 AM
The Borchester Echo 13 Dec 08 - 05:45 AM
Stu 13 Dec 08 - 06:20 AM
catspaw49 13 Dec 08 - 08:34 AM
GUEST,Smokey 13 Dec 08 - 01:13 PM
GUEST,Madame Ruth sans biscuit 13 Dec 08 - 01:39 PM
Don Firth 13 Dec 08 - 01:58 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 15 Dec 08 - 06:05 AM
Ruth Archer 15 Dec 08 - 06:12 AM
Paul Burke 15 Dec 08 - 06:28 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 15 Dec 08 - 07:10 AM
Stu 15 Dec 08 - 07:29 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 15 Dec 08 - 07:57 AM
Ruth Archer 15 Dec 08 - 08:33 AM
Stu 15 Dec 08 - 08:54 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 15 Dec 08 - 09:02 AM
Ruth Archer 15 Dec 08 - 09:32 AM
Dave Hanson 15 Dec 08 - 09:40 AM
GUEST,Joe P 15 Dec 08 - 09:44 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 15 Dec 08 - 09:51 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 15 Dec 08 - 09:53 AM
mandotim 15 Dec 08 - 10:01 AM
Ruth Archer 15 Dec 08 - 10:04 AM
Will Fly 15 Dec 08 - 10:41 AM
Sleepy Rosie 15 Dec 08 - 10:48 AM
Stu 15 Dec 08 - 10:55 AM
Ruth Archer 15 Dec 08 - 11:03 AM
Phil Edwards 15 Dec 08 - 11:05 AM
Will Fly 15 Dec 08 - 11:21 AM
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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 12:15 PM

Excellent quote, stigweard. Do you happen to remember which of Carl Sagan's books it's in?

Don (long time Carl Sagan fan) Firth


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 12:29 PM

"Who does the supposing?"

Whoever it was who gave us the question that has no answer.


"What's a soul got to do with that?
When I'm gone, I'm gone...Thats it."

How do you know that?


"There is no afterlife. Deal with it!"

I have no need to deal with something in which I don't believe. I believe there is an afterlife, and I believe there have been many lives before.


"If there is a God, Why does he/she/it allow wars?"

It is we ourselves, as a species, who create the wars. Things happen, sometimes terrible things happen, but you cannot blame 'God' for those things. That's opting out of human responsibility.

"Ignorance is bliss."

I wouldn't know, I am not ignorant.


"..Should a definite proof source for "no god" show up or if he one day popped up out of the pea patch, that would be just fine. But if neither happens its okay with me..."

The thing is, no evidence will *ever* show up. It just takes so many scientists all their lives to work that one out.

:0)


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 12:54 PM

"It just takes so many scientists all their lives to work that one out."

Well, I think they already have worked that out, and most scientists, including those with a religious bent, are smart enough to keep those concepts separate. "There is evidence for this, so I'm pretty sure that it's true. There is no evidence for this, so if I want to believe it, I have to take it on faith."

Soul? I don't know what that is. Awareness? Consciousness? Yes, of course. But are they the same thing? I don't know. Neither, for that matter does anyone else.

As to an afterlife, this is also a matter where I chose to "let the mystery be." I cannot conceive of the idea that my consciousness will not continue after I fall off the twig. And I think this is the same with everyone, hence the persistence of a belief in an afterlife (including many elaborate scenarios about what it will be like). Yet we lose consciousness when we sleep. The confusing part of it is that we regain it (most of us do, anyway) when we wake up.

I don't sweat the matter of an afterlife for two reasons:   first, I can do nothing about whether there is an afterlife or not. What is, is. Second, when my time comes to shuffle off this cortal moil, if there is and afterlife, it will be a whole new adventure. If there is no afterlife, I will have no longer have a consciousness with which to be disappointed.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 01:00 PM

Ah. To complete the possible alternative theories in my second paragraph above, "Also--if there is no evidence for this, then I cannot necessarily say that it isn't true. All I can say is that I have no evidence."

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 05:54 PM

LizzieC - Really, and you know this, for certain, that the soul does not continue after death? How do you know? Evidence, if possible, please.

That is a logical fallacy known as shifting the burden of proof. If you have no evidence don't make the claim in the first place. The only possible evidence for the non-existence of something is the complete lack of evidence for its existence.


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 06:01 PM

What I want to know though, is where the toothfairy gets her money from. Is that one of those things that we are just never meant to know?


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 06:44 PM

I think she gets her silver dimes from the same place that the Lone Ranger got his silver bullets.

Don Firth

P. S. A question just occurred to me:   regarding the silver bullets, did the Lone Ranger have a pathelogical fear of werewolves?


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 06:49 PM

"The only possible evidence for the non-existence of something is the complete lack of evidence for its existence."


Sigh...

The 'evidence' is out there waiting for you in bucketloads, but first...you have to die. :0)

This does of course, make it slightly tricky to write up a 100,000 word scientific thesis on the matter, but, that's just the way it is, and it ain't *ever* going to change.

Half Empty
Half Full

No Evidence, therefore no Existence Whatsoever
No Evidence, therefore Absolute Faith

Whichever feels right, I guess.



And the Tooth Faery's money supply? You tell me you don't know where she gets the money from, but you know that souls don't exist????

She gets it from the Faery Jewellers, who need tiny teeth to make the necklaces, earrings, bracelets, brooches and tiaras, so beloved by Faeries. They make silver castings from them. The teeth have to be perfect though, no cracks or chips from where they've dropped..and that's why you always need to leave the tooth in salt, so the Faery can get a far better grip on it when she flutters in.

You don't believe me?

Notice the Tooth Tiara


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 08:09 PM

Sigh...    The 'evidence' is out there waiting for you in bucketloads, but first...you have to die.

I think that's a bit harsh for pointing out a simple logical fallacy.. How then shall I die, oh wise and holy one?

I didn't say "No Evidence, therefore no Existence Whatsoever", nor did I imply it. I was simply not accepting the burden of proof, as it is most definitely yours. I cannot be expected to either prove nothing or prove an absence of something intangible which you are positing. I meant that it is impossible for me to provide any evidence beyond that which you already possess, that being an absence of it. It's a bit like accusing someone of a crime for which you have no evidence and about which you have no meaningful information, and expecting them to prove their innocence.

And the Tooth Faery's money supply? You tell me you don't know where she gets the money from, but you know that souls don't exist????

I didn't say that I know that souls don't exist either. I've never come across any evidence that they do yet though... Please don't tell me I have to die again.. WaV never used to be like that..

Thanks for the toothfairy info though, economics is not my forte, and I'd never heard of the salt trick. Firstborn has yet to lose his gnashers, and I want to do the right thing by him, obviously. What's the current exchange rate?

**************
Don - Where is your evidence that the toothfairy doesn't exist?


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 08:13 PM

Wow! I must confess to a certain boggling of the mind!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 08:30 PM

I try to keep mine well and truly boggled Don..

Isn't that what minds are for?


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 09:04 PM

Lizzie

The glass is actually both half empty and half full at the same time, so using your own analogy you must have 'Absolute Faith' in something with 'no Existence Whatsoever'..


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 09:37 PM

"The only possible evidence for the non-existence of something is the complete lack of evidence for its existence." (me)

Actually that's not quite right.. sorry. It's possible to prove the existence of something which precludes the existence of the first thing.. But that could be construed as 'positing entities beyond necessity' :-)


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Amos
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 11:57 PM

Fortunately there is a great deal of evidence in support of the activity and endurance of the human spirit. Unfortunately, physicists can't apply it to molecules, so they get snarky about it.


A


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 04:21 AM

Of course, there is no-one currently on this planet who can say for sure whether or not there is an "afterlife" and those who are adamant one way or the other are deluded liars. My overriding concern is, however unlikely I believe it to be, if there should turn out to be one, that it operates on the strict principles of apartheid with WAV & madlizziecornish in one sector and me in the other.

Meanwhile, here we are in this snapshot of time in a miniscule backwater of the universe far too insignificant for any, almost certainly mythical, supreme being to be arsed about how it's getting screwed up by wilfully ignorant, self-obsessed, po-faced, tedious, pompous prats.

It's by far the more pragmatic option to take it that our short spans here is all there is. It falls thus to some to de-dross the planet and its fora. Henry Hoovers out, chaps.

If there were any god (however busy), he / she / it would surely have proscribed the sanctimonious Daily Mail and all the anti-intellectual, middle-England, moronic mediocrity it encapsulates. Small wonder that its readership harbours such ludicrous notions of what English culture is.


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 05:01 AM

THE WEEKLY WALKABOUT, E.G.

Poem 154 of 230: GETTING TO KNOW GOD

God lets us go
    Our own way -
Until the Day;
    Now and then, though,
He has a Say
    In His own Way -
Prophets to Sow,
    Deserts to Pay.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 05:16 AM

I never pay for a desert - I just usually hve a starter and a main course...


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 05:45 AM

As Jesus said (allegedly): My god why have you desserted me?


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Stu
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 06:20 AM

"Excellent quote, stigweard. Do you happen to remember which of Carl Sagan's books it's in?"

Actually, I realised my post was somewhat garbled and re-reading it I gave the impression I lifted the quote from Carl Sagan when I actually only lifted the idea, the words were mine (although how much is my original thought remains to be seen).

I'm pretty sure it came from his book Cosmos, but I have misplaced my copy so can't give you a reference.

In some ways this was the single most powerful ideas I have ever read in print. It actually allows us to construct a moral code that doesn't rely on religion at all, but hard scientific evidence. In my opinion the very idea we are the universe made conscious is far more awe-inspiring than anything man could dream up alone. It confirms the value of every life on the planet (or anywhere else), affirms it's sanctity and shows us we are all equal and don't need someone telling us we're at the behest of some omnipotent phantom.

Here is the true nature of God revealed in all 'his' glory - the living universe itself and everything in it, all it's laws and theorems. A big idea to get your head around! Sagan was a genius.


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 08:34 AM

Congratulations to David Franks. It is almost beyond belief that he will ever be able to top this one in his long list of meaningless drivel. This latest "thing".....whatever it is...... has no meaning that I can discern.

THIS is supposed to enlighten the world and show us all a better way? To do what exactly?

LMAO.....Doesn't even qualify as tripe or crap!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 01:13 PM

Amos - "Fortunately there is a great deal of evidence in support of the activity and endurance of the human spirit."

Where? Who has verified it? Have all other possible explanations for the observed phenomena been ruled out?

"Unfortunately, physicists can't apply it to molecules, so they get snarky about it."

I'm not surprised.


WaV - What is your poem about? Can you explain it?


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: GUEST,Madame Ruth sans biscuit
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 01:39 PM

Things we all must believe in now because there is no absolute evidence that they don't exist:

All cryptozoological creatures, including Bigfoot, the Jersey Devil, and the Loch Ness monster

Fairies

Dragons

Compassionate Tories

Father Christmas

The Man in the Moon

Elves

Unicorns

Mermaids


Not only must we now believe in them (simply because we can't prove that they DON'T exist), we must also construct elaborate belief-systems around all of these creatures, in whom we now have an unshakeable faith, and expect them to use their powers to Save the Cheerleader and Save the World. How they are meant to do this i'm not certain, but some things Just Aren't Meant To Be Known. *Nods very wisely*

I'm just off to pray to Trixie, the gnome at the bottom of my garden.


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 01:58 PM

"Sagan was a genius."

Indeed!!

I remember his saying something of this nature on the Cosmos television series. It rang a very large gong in my head at the time.

I have the book. I'll have a bit of a search.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 06:05 AM

"My overriding concern is, however unlikely I believe it to be, if there should turn out to be one, that it operates on the strict principles of apartheid with WAV & madlizziecornish in one sector and me in the other."



"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." - Benjamin Franklin


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 06:12 AM

' "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." - Benjamin Franklin'

Oh, the irony...


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Paul Burke
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 06:28 AM

Fortunately there is a great deal of evidence in support of the activity and endurance of the human spirit.

No there ain't.

If you can get away with bald assertion, so can I.


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 07:10 AM

In answer to the post a few above this one:

I have always believed in Faeries, Dragons, Father Christmas, The Man in the Moon, Elves, Unicorns and Mermaids.


Faeries?

Not too long ago I sat listening to Brian Froud, 'the man of Faery', when he gave a talk in Exeter Museum. An amazing man, so incredibly kind, with a very special magic about him. He believes, you see. 100%, and he believes because he's seen them. You try and talk him out of that, and see what happens. Of course, you have to have the kind of Spirit that believes in so many things that the majority of people never actually see, so not all are given access to the Faeries, or indeed the Angels. They choose you, not the other way around.

Brian sees Faeries, has conversations with them, and if you ask me, he is protected by them, infused with them (yes, Infused With Faery) The most amazing artist with more than a touch of magic in his paintings.

Brian Froud

Dragons?

Dragons have walked this land, ask St. George, and Elliot...and Barney. Just because no archaelogist has yet named bones of certain animals, 'Dragons' does not mean they've never existed. But then I still believe in The Power of Puff, and far from Puff being about the loss of childhood, for me, Puff lives on forever inside all those who never 'discard' their childhood.

Father Christmas is alive in the Spirit of giving and caring. He doesn't live in a red suit, at the North Pole, but he lives insides the hearts of those who understand that giving is far better than receiving.

The Man in the Moon shines out over us all, each evening, caring for us. He even has his own song from Reg Meuross on 'Short Stories':

The Man in the Moon

The Man in the Moon (by Reg Meuross)

"I took a walk one night just to ease my head
I had a lot of things on my mind
A lot of words that hadn't been said
I sat down on a cemetery bench
To watch the clouds roll by
Seemed to be just me and the moon
And he seemed to be staring me straight in the eye
Was it the words in my head looking for a little space
Or did i hear a still small voice
Coming from the big white face
He said

I am the man in the moon let me be your light
I will listen til the sun comes up all through the cold dark night
I am the man in the moon who do you want me to be
I'll be your friend if you need a friend bring your troubles to me

I know you're gonna say that i must be crazy
That i gotta be crazy to believe
That there's somebody up there somewhere
And he's been talking to me
Some believe in a god and a freedom of choice
I believe in the power of the light
Snd the power of the still small voice
Cos when i needed hope and when i needed faith
I looked up to the brilliant sky and that beautiful face

The sun comes up and everybody gets happy
Giving thanks for a brand new day
I can't wait til the sun goes down and i hear my new friend say
You can be blue if you want to
Talk about yourself just as long as you like
Come to me if you don't feel sunny
Everybody needs a little moonlight"


Unicorns?

Beloved of those who 'see' with their hearts, since this Earth first came into being. Hidden forever from all those who see only through science.



Elves?

They are very much alive and well here in Mudcat, no doubt you yourself have spoken to them from time to time.


Mermaids?

There is one who sits in Copenhagen Harbour, recorded for all to see. And there is another who sits here in this room with me, the only painting my daughter loves, for she feels she didn't paint it (she did). She has no confidence in her artwork, and cannot see what others see, but this painting, this was something special. She has no memory of painting The Mermaid, none at all, as she went 'to a different place' that day. By the evening, as the Man in the Moon shone his light down, through her attic window, The Mermaid had been given life, probably brought to us by a magical Unicorn, to live with my daughter and make her believe in herself. She has no memory of painting her, all she remembers is holding the painting out in the rain, through her window. Then staring at her in confusion, as she was sealed with the very water that gives her life.

The Mermaid


Compassionate Tories?

I believe that Compassionate Politicians are born, not made. They may belong to any party, and when they become its Leader, then many others of Compassion will follow them, and the Dispassionate will leave immediately. Any party who has a Compassionate Leader will go on to do great things. I have never belonged to one party, or one set of beliefs. The Man Maketh The Politician, not the Party Title. And it is the Man I would vote for, not the Party, because some people are born to lead, to turn everything around.


Those who do not have Magic in their Soul will never believe.

Those who are so bigoted that they seek to judge all men, label them, make them remain in 'a box' for the rest of their lives, will never understand.

I am no class, no colour, no political belief, no one paper reader, no scientist.

Bit I believe in many, many things which some people will never have inside them, and for that, I feel a great sorrow, for if you keep your door always closed, then you will never let those who are knocking upon it, inside.

The Knock At The Door

"When was the last time you...".......Believed?


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Stu
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 07:29 AM

"Bit I believe in many, many things which some people will never have inside them, and for that, I feel a great sorrow, for if you keep your door always closed, then you will never let those who are knocking upon it, inside."

Well, don't feel sorry for me. I have an open and enquiring mind, and certainly don't need to be condescended to or patronised by anybody who seems to think they have the answers. I'm free-thinking and will take nobody's word for anything, ;east of all the wishy-washy new-age claptrap you can see all over the place.

Here's a secret I can reveal: Most of that new-age crap is a marketing ploy.


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 07:57 AM

Show me a person who has 'all the answers' and I'll show you a very big smile, Stig.

Life's about trying to find the answers to many things...but there are some questions which no-one will ever be able to answer. But you sure as heck ain't gonna find answers for some questions if you've shut and bolted the door.

The 'new-age crap' you speak of, is actually Ancient Age Belief.

Each to their own belief, and that way lies happiness, I guess.


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 08:33 AM

"Well, don't feel sorry for me. I have an open and enquiring mind, and certainly don't need to be condescended to or patronised by anybody who seems to think they have the answers. I'm free-thinking and will take nobody's word for anything, least of all the wishy-washy new-age claptrap you can see all over the place"

Indeedio. I don't really take to being preached to, regardless of which crackpot beliefs are being pedalled.


'The 'new-age crap' you speak of, is actually Ancient Age Belief.'

More new age claptrap. Where is your evidence for this assertion?


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Stu
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 08:54 AM

"The 'new-age crap' you speak of, is actually Ancient Age Belief"

Lizzie, this simply isn't true. It's a mish-mash of ideas and beliefs culled from varying traditions or simply made up. You can't just mix and match this stuff at will - that shows a real lack of discernment. Been to Glastonbury recently (the town, not the festival)? The whole place has become a retail outlet for Disneyland spirituality, shifting lorry loads of wands, Excaliber swords and kiffy stuff. Whilst I love the colour and vibrancy of it all, most is complete tat and has the spiritual integrity of a dog turd.

Brian Froud is a wonderful artist though, even if he is away with the fairies.


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 09:02 AM

"Where is your evidence for this assertion?"

I think it's best if you tell me, as you're the expert on these things, apparently. You tell me over and over I know zilch,
so what would be the point in me telling you anything?



From Diane:

"If there were any god (however busy), he / she / it would surely have proscribed the sanctimonious Daily Mail and all the anti-intellectual, middle-England, moronic mediocrity it encapsulates. Small wonder that its readership harbours such ludicrous notions of what English culture is. "


So, please, tell us, all us dumb muffins out here, what English culture actually is, for it would seem from your words that you are the only one who knows.

"English culture is..............


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 09:32 AM

' "Where is your evidence for this assertion?"

I think it's best if you tell me, as you're the expert on these things, apparently.'



Ah, we're back to the same dodgy debating technique we saw earlier, which Smokey rightly identified as "...a logical fallacy known as shifting the burden of proof. If you have no evidence don't make the claim in the first place."

So, where is YOUR evidence that "The 'new-age crap'...is actually Ancient Age Belief"?

I would echo Stigweard's post above, especially the bit about "the spiritual integrity of a dog turd."


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 09:40 AM

If Brian Froud believes in fairies, then he's ' away with the fairies ' as the Scots aptly put it.

Never heard owt so daft since the two little girls in Shipley fooled Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

eric


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: GUEST,Joe P
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 09:44 AM

I came here to complain about how I can't use e.g. anymore, for reasons I don't need to explain, however I would like to say that I for one have seen some spiritually enlightening dog turds. They can really teach you a lot about life, especially when you stand in them.

Don't knock those turds


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 09:51 AM

Ah, but you haven't met Brian, have you?

Blimey, Tinkerbell would have died, for sure, with some of you lot around. ;0)


I used to live up the road from Glastonbury, Stig...visited it many a time. I don't like the way the town's shops have been taken over either, but I tell you what, I'd rather be trapped on a desert island with many of the folk who love Glastonbury, and are 'searching' for something, rather than some of the folk in here, who seem to want to just spew out nastiness.

The Glastonbury folk are gentle people, most of whom would accept absolutely anyone. They are the Travellers, the Poets, the Storytellers, the Magicians, and they have far more magic within their souls than I see in some other towns.


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 09:53 AM

Er...just need to clarify, for anyone new to this thread, that this:

"Ah, but you haven't met Brian, have you?

Blimey, Tinkerbell would have died, for sure, with some of you lot around. ;0)"

..related to Eric's post, a few above.


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: mandotim
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 10:01 AM

Lizzie, please tell me your post at 7.10 above was mischievous, ironic and witty; if I thought for a moment you were serious, I'd have to say 'keep an eye out of the window, not for faeries, dragons and unicorns, but for men in white coats'.
If you are serious, then I feel you have a huge misconception of the role of science. Science does not exist to explain everything, nor does it seek to. It tries to explore phenomena, using rigorous, valid and repeatable methods to test hypotheses which may or may not be proved true. If they are true, then knowledge is acquired. If false, then further exploration is indicated. The key difference between science and the less rigorous chroniclers of phenomena is that science has discipline and a strong system of peer review. It's nice to believe in faeries, dragons and unicorns, but it is important to remember that a lack of evidence that they don't exist is not the same as evidence that they do. If that was the case, I could say that the Great Stripy Gargle-Breathed Oojamaflip exists, and the fact that you can't prove conclusively that it doesn't means I'm 100% right. Silly, isn't it, especially since I nade it up?
Regarding New-age beliefs; stigweard is absolutely right, and there is evidence to support this. A good example is the ancient sport of Dwile Flunking, which many believe to be an ancient tradition; it isn't; it was made up one idle afternoon by the scriptwriters on 'Round the Horne'.
Finally; your comment to Ruth and Diane about your being regarded as 'dumb' and 'I know nothing'. That's what this is really about, isn't it? Make a wild assertion, and when challenged, retreat into the comfort zone of victimhood. As a tactic, Lizzie, it's old and tired, a bit like me. I'll listen and engage with your ideas as soon as you can produce a shred of testable and peer reviewed evidence for them, but until then I'll have to leave them on the shelf marked 'interesting but bonkers'.
Regards
Tim


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 10:04 AM

"but I tell you what, I'd rather be trapped on a desert island with many of the folk who love Glastonbury, and are 'searching' for something, rather than some of the folk in here, who seem to want to just spew out nastiness."

Well, I personally would rather spend time with people who can carry on interesting conversations about which they actuallly have some knowledge, who have intellectual curiosity, do research into interesting subjects, and who have respect for academic and intellectual rigour. And who are also happy to freely share the knowledge they've gained, often through many years of painstaking research.

Happily, I am lucky enough to regularly spend time with such people both here at Mudcat and in real life.


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 10:41 AM

English culture is: the great Ian Dury and the Blockheads!

Perfectly English - witty, great music, unpretentious, urban and rocking. One of the greats.


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 10:48 AM

The last time I was in Glasto, I seem to remember most of the folk there were seeking their next can of special brew. Pity 'cos the area itself is quite beautiful and I must confess to taking pleasure in indulging in the ambience generated by the whole otherworldly mythos that has constellated around the place. As for 'belief', I make it a strict rule, only ever to believe in those things that it pleases me to...


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Stu
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 10:55 AM

"The Glastonbury folk are gentle people, most of whom would accept absolutely anyone. They are the Travellers, the Poets, the Storytellers, the Magicians, and they have far more magic within their souls than I see in some other towns."

Well, here's the thing I have about Glastonbury. We've been visiting the town for the odd night or two on a yearly basis for well over a decade now. I've always been interested in counter-culture (though never a practitioner) and have also had a deep interest in the indigenous spirituality of our Islands so Glastonbury seemed to be a good place to start.

In that time it's gone from eccentric to commercial, and the place is full of seekers, charlatans, pissheads and sellers. Whilst the Well and lane, Abbey and Tor retain their mystical air everything else owes more to ghost trains and medicine shows than anything with any depth or integrity. It's a mish mash, nothing more or less.

T there are places in the UK which retain a far more primeval and with more raw 'presence' (whatever that may mean) than Glastonbury ever does, and the faux-earth mothers and hairy drinkers are never there. But then that's not what they're looking for I suppose. There are stone circles in the Peak District which have a far more vibrant genius loci. Julian Cope realised that years ago, and he was right.


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 11:03 AM

"There are stone circles in the Peak District which have a far more vibrant genius loci."

Snap - that's exactly what your post made me think of! The ones near Robin Hood's Stride? I love walking there. But I hasten to add that I have no spirituality to speak of.


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 11:05 AM

Will - I was hoping it'd be that song, and almost certain it wouldn't. Thanks for proving me wrong!


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 11:21 AM

Will - I was hoping it'd be that song, and almost certain it wouldn't. Thanks for proving me wrong!

My pleasure! But wasn't he just the business? I saw him live in Brighton in '68 (at the old Top Rank Suite) and he was just superb. When he launched into "Wake Up, Make Love With Me", the whole joint was bouncing. To me, he's the epitome of modern Englishness - and the Blockheads were and are the musician's musicians.


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 11:22 AM

My brain's going - '78, not '68! I saw him in '69 or so at the old North London Tramsheds in an open air concert with Kilburn and the High Roads...


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 11:23 AM

" I saw him live in Brighton in '68 (at the old Top Rank Suite) and he was just superb."

Lucky bastard.


I see you a Blockheads and raise you a Kinks.


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 11:36 AM

Thanks for The Blockheads link, Will - one of my all time favourite songs & just what we need at Christmas.

Glastonbury! Last time we were there we watched a helicopter repairing the tourist erosion on the Tor. Here's our wee video in celebration of this genuine piece of mystical engineering, featuring an appearance of one of a Glastonbury Green Man (in St. John's) as oppose to the made-up New Age shit found in the High Street shops.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=--XmMAR4lPE

Music by The Green Spiral Band - which is - er - just me actually - though we used this basic track for the Nihil Project's Weaving Wheat which can be heard on their myspace page Here...


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 11:41 AM

Stigweard - Yay, a fellow Copey. Love his tomes, though the essays are a bit dodgy at times.. I got the Megalithic European for Xmas a couple years back, and one day would love to do a tour of some of the stunning looking European sites that he covers. I think that it's his intimate engagement in what was very much a personal oddessey which makes the origonal UK volume in particular so appealing. Fuzzy photos, family, anecdotes and journal entries all make me think "I want to do that."


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Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout cum Talkabout
From: Chris Green
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 11:43 AM

Ah, the Blockheads! Certainly makes me proud to be English anyway!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yIydZ0Prg8g&feature=related


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