UK band insurance and other red tape

Subject: UK band insurance and other red tape
From: Mo the caller
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 08:21 AM

I am a member of EFDSS. If I accept a booking and take musicians with me is the whole event covered for Public Liability? If I was a band leader would the band be covered by my membership?

Is there anything else non-musical that we need to consider?
I know about PAT testing of electrical equipment.

Subject: RE: UK band insurance and other red tape
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 08:42 AM

Whoever is booking you should ensure the *event* is covered for Public Liability (if someone slips on spilled beer or gets food poisoning from the fish supper that can hardly be the fault of the band) but your band will still need cover in case a speaker falls on someone or a dancer is injured in a careless swing or basket (for example). I think the EFDSS cover is for events for 200 people or less?

Subject: RE: UK band insurance and other red tape
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 09:10 AM

Some venues may expect to see a risk assessment, so you should have one handy.

And you should certainly have PLI of your own- contact the MU for advice, they do very good rates for members.

Subject: RE: UK band insurance and other red tape
From: treewind
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 09:17 AM

It's better for the band as a whole to have cover, not just the caller or one member.
A band can join the EFDSS as an affiliate member and get the insurance cover - that what Fendragon does. The cover included whoever's calling at any particular gig, and you don't have to specify exactly who's in the band, though obviously one person has to be the designated contact when applying for membership. The total cost is the same as purchasing insurance direct from MIS (same insurers whichever way you do it) the limit of liability was lower for a time but it's been raised to match the limit for direct-purchased PLI.

Membership of the Musicians Union is also a good idea. We are, and their legal department have helped us once. Even without joining, you can also download a sample contract from their website - we did that and use it as a basis for our band contracts, and we always use written contracts - it saves a lot of arguing, and it help us to focus on getting essential details (times, fees) established before taking on a booking. Note that MU membership for insurance doesn't work too well if not all members of the band are MU members - if push comes to shove, the MU's insurers will try to make the band's non-MU members liable in the event of a claim. And unlike the EFDSS, a band can't join the MU - it's individuals only.

For good measure, we also have a health and safety policy which mentions PAT testing but also makes clear our own requirements of the venue. We send a printed copy with contract.

Anahata

Subject: RE: UK band insurance and other red tape
From: alex s
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 10:56 AM

some good advice here - thanks

Subject: RE: UK band insurance and other red tape
From: Mo the caller
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 03:56 PM

That all looks very professional.

Subject: RE: UK band insurance and other red tape
From: Dave Hunt
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 05:27 PM

Tom Bliss -said above -'Some venues may expect to see a risk assessment, so you should have one handy'.

Does anyone have a copy of such a document that I might be able to use as a basis for one for me as a caller and also one for Sunshine Arts? www.sunshinearts.co.uk
Thanks

Subject: RE: UK band insurance and other red tape
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 28 Nov 08 - 09:13 AM

Another option for PLI for UK folk bands is Bryan James, http://www.musiciansinsurance.co.uk.

I have no connection or financial interest etc., and have also never actually had to claim; but any church, local authority, or National Trust jobsworth who has insisted on seeing the certificate before allowing the confirmation of the gig has always been satisfied, and the number of venues who are now insisting that the band have PLI make it (IMNSHO) a worthwhile annual investment just to avoid losing the gig, quite apart from the actual legal protection should a particularly extravagant do-si-do go horribly wrong.

And I looked at whether the PLI I get through my membership of EFDSS covered a ceilidh where I was a member of the band, and quickly came to the conclusion that it didn't :)

Subject: RE: UK band insurance and other red tape
From: Leadfingers
Date: 28 Nov 08 - 09:22 AM

Membership of Equity gives P L I automatically . and I THINK that holds with M U as well !! But I think ALL members of a band have to be in one or the other to get Band coverage

Subject: RE: UK band insurance and other red tape
From: Hamish
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 08:51 AM

So, Anahata, how much do you pay for PAT testing? Does it cover all your amps, PSUs, mains supply leads, extension leads and the like? Do you take your stuff to the tester or does s/he come to you?

Cheers

Hamish

Subject: RE: UK band insurance and other red tape
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 11:22 AM

Does that mean I can expect one from you Anahata. Not sure if we are covered for floods :-)

Sorry to hijack this thread with the following comment.
Saw Hillary the other day, Anahata. She goes to the same Yoga classes as Inge (my wife). I reminded her that you are at Faldingworth Next January, so I think a couple of tickets sold there.

Les

Subject: RE: UK band insurance and other red tape
From: treewind
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 08:54 AM

Hamish:
If you want to get your stuff tested, you might be able to do a deal if you work in a place where stuff has to be PAT tested, otherwise you can take it to them (almost any professional electrician, phone round and ask...) or get them to come to you but don't expect them to make the journey for free!

I do mine myself. I paid about £250 for a Seaford continuity and insulation tester from RS components. Admittedly that would pay for quite a lot of professional testing, but I felt like indulging my technical interest. You can can also pay thousands for a C&G course for electricians (what the jobsworth at one school we played at was going to do, paid for by his employers of course) but I don't think there's anything in the law/regulations that says who has to do the testing, what qualifications they should have or how it should be done. It's actually quite vague, intentionally because in many cases a big issue is how the equipment is being used.

Anyway, once a year I go though everything that plugs into the mains, and check it. On the power supply for the electric keyboard, I check for insulation between mains and the low voltage output, but don't expect earth continuity; on amplifiers and mixers I test both (it's one button press, does both at once). I also test the cables, and open up the mains plugs that aren't moulded-on and check the wires are in the right places, the screws are tight and the fuse has the correct rating (the first time I did this I found a 5A fuse on a power cable that should have been 13A). And I label everything and print out a certificate listing what was tested and when.

Nobody has ever asked to see the documentation, but I like to know that my stuff is safe.

Leadfingers: yes (if you're still watching...)

Les: Hilary? ...De Witt? Splendid work!

Anahata

Subject: RE: UK band insurance and other red tape
From: Hamish
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 09:15 AM

Thanks for the info, Anahata. I *know* my stuff is safe, cos there have never been any incidents with any of it and I treat it all well, but Gainsborough might want a cert for me to play one of their coffee shops in October. And I guess sometime or other a pub will want to see a comforting label or two.

Now I think of it, a neighbour is a sparky: maybe he'll do me a special price...