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Baritone Concertinas ~ Do you play one?

Ptarmigan 05 Dec 08 - 03:27 PM
The Sandman 05 Dec 08 - 04:08 PM
Acorn4 05 Dec 08 - 07:52 PM
Guran 06 Dec 08 - 04:45 AM
Ptarmigan 06 Dec 08 - 05:12 AM
Guran 06 Dec 08 - 07:23 AM
Dave Hanson 06 Dec 08 - 08:05 AM
The Sandman 06 Dec 08 - 02:49 PM
Ptarmigan 06 Dec 08 - 02:58 PM
Bernard 06 Dec 08 - 05:09 PM
The Sandman 07 Dec 08 - 12:39 PM
Guran 07 Dec 08 - 01:34 PM
Guran 08 Dec 08 - 01:30 PM
Lester 08 Dec 08 - 02:09 PM
Ptarmigan 16 Dec 08 - 03:29 PM
GUEST 02 Feb 09 - 02:22 AM
Ptarmigan 02 Feb 09 - 06:49 PM
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Subject: Baritone Concertinas ~ Do you play one?
From: Ptarmigan
Date: 05 Dec 08 - 03:27 PM

Well, do you play a Baritone Concertina?

I guess this is the next obvious question, to follow on from my question about Tenor/Treble Concertinas! :-)

Surely there weren't very many of these monsters made, ....... were there?

After all, I'm sure they can't be played comfortably without, at least, the use of Wrist Straps & more likely a Neck Strap?

From the few YouTube videos I've found which demonstrate these wonderful instruments, it is clear to see & hear how fantastic they sound, although perhaps they are not your ideal Concertina for a fast Irish Music session! :-)

From YouTubes I now know they sound absolutely drop dead gorgeous for Classical Music, but I'm sure they'd be excellent in a group situation, not least for backing singers.

I'd love to hear more about these unusual instruments, from any folks here who play these beasts, or who do hear them being played?

If you haven't heard these instruments before, check out this little cracker ....... I'm talking about the music & the instrument!

Cancion de Cuna

Fandanguillo

L'ENFANT DEMON FRANCE

Cheers
Dick

P.S. If you actually have one of these dudes, perhaps just gathering dust on a shelf or in a cupboard ... give me a shout! :-)


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Subject: RE: Baritone Concertinas ~ Do you play one?
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Dec 08 - 04:08 PM

hi Dick,I have never owned one,but I borrowed one from Nigel Pickles[New Mexborough English Concertina Quartet]to do some recording.
I found it a bit sluggish at the bottom end.
often they were used in concertina bands,but only played melody ,for occassional forays,but played harmony the rest of the time.
that is how we used it in the NMECQ.


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Subject: RE: Baritone Concertinas ~ Do you play one?
From: Acorn4
Date: 05 Dec 08 - 07:52 PM

Bernard Wrigley, songwriter/comedian plays one (I think it's a baritone) and makes it a brilliant part of his act!


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Subject: RE: Baritone Concertinas ~ Do you play one?
From: Guran
Date: 06 Dec 08 - 04:45 AM

Ptarmigan!
I have used quite a few baritones for many years and one important impression is that they may differ (like any other model of course..) so much concerning the playability in respect to you questions that it is impossible to give any valid general answers !
Like I said in the tenortreble comment :Neckstraps is NOT a good idea for supporting the instrument, particularly not heavier ones !!
Traditional wrist straps is a dubious aid too, since when set tight - which is necessary to get any stable suppport - they lock the hand in an extended unsuitable position and when set loose the may only help just a little on draw. You need to combine them with a wrist support to get things work sufficiently - particularly with larger instruments

Goran Rahm


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Subject: RE: Baritone Concertinas ~ Do you play one?
From: Ptarmigan
Date: 06 Dec 08 - 05:12 AM

Hi Dick,
That Baritone you borrowed, must surely have been a very different model to the one Juliette plays, because her one looks anything but sluggish.
I certainly wouldn't want to spend big money on a Concertina that was only fit to play Oooom Paaaa Oooom Paaaa! :-)

Thanks Acorn, I must watch out for him.

Interesting Goran.
So far, at least, I am certainly very comfortable playing my TT with just the Thumb Straps.
However, some of those Bass Concertinas look absolutely enormous & do look like they might be a little difficult to manage.
I think the Baritone would probably be large enough for comfort.
I notice though that there are a variety of different styles & tunings for Baritones.
By the way Goran, have you posted any YouTubes of your Baritone playing?
If so, I'd love to see them?

Cheers
Dick

P.S. Did you see that Baritone sell for £4,000 on eBay, a couple of weeks ago?
Of course it looked like it was in mint condition ...... I guess it'd need to be, for that kind of money! :-)


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Subject: RE: Baritone Concertinas ~ Do you play one?
From: Guran
Date: 06 Dec 08 - 07:23 AM

Ptarmigan,
Like I said before - baritones differ a lot! 1) general measures of course 2) type of reeds 3) single action vs double action 4) other qualities
For the moment I use two - a)a Wheatstone 48key sixsided flatended ca 1920.This has overall common type of reeds and the common reed plate arrangement similar to trebles.It is the same size as a 64 key tenortreble and is very handy to play.The low octave response is not impressing though, this is expected from that range 'common' reeds.
b)a Lachenal New Model 56key.This is a bit larger,elongated shape and with a divided reed plate arrangement, radial at the top, linear for the lowest 10 notes each side which also has got longer scale reeds which are screwed on, not dovetailed.
This makes the response in the lower octave a lot better and the overall response is better than a).There is one drawback - there may be some slight tonal character difference between the top range and the low range, seldom causing any distress however.Tonally the very best baritones generally I think have long scale reeds and are single action! I have had a 48 key Aeola from the same period as a) and it had basically the same character.

You Tube?...I will try to do something with the instruments above some day but baritone-trebles are basically the same of course.You find a couple of snips with a 56 key baritone-treble here./ Goran

Ergonomic concertina handle 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In8vMa9foW

Ergonimic concertina handle 3 Playing standing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4enJpSLsF2s


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Subject: RE: Baritone Concertinas ~ Do you play one?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 06 Dec 08 - 08:05 AM

Both Bernard Wrigley and Mike Harding used to play contra bass concertinas, bloody enormous things but what a great tone.

eric


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Subject: RE: Baritone Concertinas ~ Do you play one?
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Dec 08 - 02:49 PM

PTARMIGAN.
the baritone was in fact a wheatstone,and a very good one,but towards the bottom end it was slightly sluggish[not very good for playing reels],as have been, all the ones I have played.they are designed for part playing[harmony ;lines occasional melody,they are not designed for playing fast reels.


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Subject: RE: Baritone Concertinas ~ Do you play one?
From: Ptarmigan
Date: 06 Dec 08 - 02:58 PM

Thanks Guran, especially for the YouTube links.

Great stuff, although I must admit, I thought you were about to start skipping with it in the 2nd clip! :-)

Dick,
Yeah, but I'd imaging they could be excellent, in a Ballad Group situation?

Cheers
Dick


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Subject: RE: Baritone Concertinas ~ Do you play one?
From: Bernard
Date: 06 Dec 08 - 05:09 PM

The Contra Bass Wheatstones of Messrs. Harding and Wrigley are 'single action' instruments - they only play on the 'push', and valves in the bellows open to let air in on the 'pull'. The reeds are enormous, and voiced as a tuba.


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Subject: RE: Baritone Concertinas ~ Do you play one?
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 08 - 12:39 PM

yes, dick.your right they are useful for a ballad group.


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Subject: RE: Baritone Concertinas ~ Do you play one?
From: Guran
Date: 07 Dec 08 - 01:34 PM

Ptarmigan,

Quote:"I must admit, I thought you were about to start skipping with it in the 2nd clip! :-)"

Beware!..I generally do - but that is more impressing on the stage:-)
I did these clips trying to demonstrate that the somewhat larger models do NOT need to be awkward or "heavy" to play at all.
For a comparison - playing some really energetic tune that I manage for hardly more than 5 minutes with a common treble using the common
thumbstrap and finger rest I can do with the twice as large and heavy modified baritonetreble continuously for more than an hour - without any more support (shoulder straps)

BTW, did you check the neckstrap reformation clip?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSsBwO2PTVE

Guran


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Subject: RE: Baritone Concertinas ~ Do you play one?
From: Guran
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 01:30 PM

Ptarmigan,
I just added another clip to YouTube using the Wheatstone 48 key baritone to illustrate the talk about fanning the bellows, having the strong beat on pull, and articulating 'violin-bow-wise'
In case you are curious...
Goran

Concertina bellows management 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt4YpRFxJqA


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Subject: RE: Baritone Concertinas ~ Do you play one?
From: Lester
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 02:09 PM

I am known to play one for Aldbury Morris as part of Terry's All Gold band. Terry owns a set of the Faire Four Sister's Wheatstone Aeolas and on high days and holidays we take out a treble, baritone and bass.

Piccy here


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Subject: RE: Baritone Concertinas ~ Do you play one?
From: Ptarmigan
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 03:29 PM

Aye thanks Goran, your Baritone sounds wonderful. I hope you'll post more YouTubes of it in action.

As you know, but just for the benefit of anyone else on this thread, I managed to find an Aeola Baritone, so guess who's a happy bunny?
I hope to get my hands on it before too long. :-)

Just out of curiousity though, what do those Baritones measure - flat to flat across their face?

I have a lovely big box here, which might just make a good home for my TT & the Baritone, as long as Bari is not too big!

Cheers
Dick


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Subject: RE: Baritone Concertinas ~ Do you play one?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 02:22 AM

I thought you might like to know that I now have my very own Aeola Baritone.

Aeola Baritone on YouTube

Thanks for your interest folks.

Cheers
Dick


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Subject: RE: Baritone Concertinas ~ Do you play one?
From: Ptarmigan
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 06:49 PM

Here are two more YouTubes of the Baritone, for fans of the bigger beasties! :-)

The Fiddler Mick Hoy

The Belle Of The Ball

Cheers
Dick


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