The Recession and Folk Clubs.

Subject: RE: The Recession and Folk Clubs.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 02:22 PM

""One of them said that he'd be a rich man if he had a pound for every time he'd been told "We have to charge £x at the door because people round here won't pay any more than that".""


Perhaps I don't know much about running folk clubs, having only been a performer and organiser for 47 years, but has it ever occurred to those who pontificate about pricing from the lofty heights of their "business model" based on affluent suburban areas, that those who say their club will not survive high pricing might actually know what they are talking about FROM BITTER AND OFTEN SALUTORY EXPERIENCE?

In the whole of my time organising folk clubs I have always charged the maximum that the local market would bear, and over many years I have found out what that limit was by overstepping and having to supplement agreed fees from my own pocket, followed by a rapid reduction to a proper balance for the area and the venue.

Having said that, every guest I ever booked left the venue with the fee he/she asked for, or such lesser fee as he/she had been willing to negotiate. Never did I ask a prospective guest to accept a reduction, preferring to simply state "I am very sorry but we cannot afford your fee". Only those who volunteered a reduction were booked, and any who asked for a percentage deal got one, usually 100% of the door, with the club keeping the proceeds of the raffle.

My qualification to have an opinion on this?

47 years during which I have run purely singers clubs, singers clubs with periodic guests, and a purely concert club which ran every Saturday from June 1976 to August 1983, with a guest EVERY week.

Artists like Martin Carthy, Jake Thackray, Eddy Walker, Del Brimstone, and many , many more.

My "earnings" from this?.......Well I made a lot of friends, and can still call on some big names when I need to, but I estimate that I have paid out upwards of £10,000 of my own money in that time, and Goddam happy to do so. It's been a blast!

Don T.

Subject: RE: The Recession and Folk Clubs.
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 02:31 PM

I appreciate Don's experience and I doubt there is anyone in this music who hasn't paid out in one way or another and like Don dleighted to have done so.

But I went to a gig a week last Friday with around 600 people at £15.00.

Hard core English music and in a student's union. It was Bellowhead of course. And damn good luck to them.

Subject: RE: The Recession and Folk Clubs.
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 03:11 PM

Yes,I played Don Ts clubs many times ,he always paid my fee,I always had a good night .
Don T,is a sound man .http://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: The Recession and Folk Clubs.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 07:01 PM

Thank you Dick. I remember those many nights with considerable pleasure, as I do the bookings of many other fine, outstanding, performers.

As the organiser of a number of clubs, over the years, my SINGLE regret is the fact that market limits prevented my booking many others whose fees WERE beyond what I was able to manage.

DonT.

Subject: RE: The Recession and Folk Clubs.
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 04:07 PM

Seems that the cursed market forces are the stumbling block to a lot of clubs and venues.
Another is that there are so many people tallented enough to play a reasonable set down the pub(well I stand to be corrected by those who know).
The artiste is probably local,gets a crowd of his mates to turn up,maybe doesnt need to earn his living doing this and the audience is getting a free show.
I heard a local singer of the louder electrified type of music recently lamenting that idiots were playing in the local pubs for £40-£60.
I dunno if that is cheap or not,but luggin all the PA etc,petrol,and other stuff must mean you need to be local to do that.
I think he was talking 3 or 4 peice cover band type things.

Subject: RE: The Recession and Folk Clubs.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Mar 09 - 05:33 AM

You've got a point there, Tim. I have run across this when looking for gigs. There are a number of places managing to find bands and solo artists who are willing to play for silly money, and the worst of that is that some of those gigs are well attended.

I think it would never work in the folk scene because there seems to be a feeling that cheap acts are poor quality acts (possibly true). The reason it happens in pubs is the fact that the patrons don't know what the band is charging, and without the clue of an admission fee, it becomes a "suck it and see situation".

Certainly, I have never offered local acts a fee below the local going rate, nor booked an act without hearing what they do first. I view with suspicion anyone prepared to price cut to that extent.

Don T.