Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: r.padgett
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 04:30 AM

Yea got this Black Hawk

Geoff [Mr Pickles]

Yea I remember Pete Thorpe and his Lofthouse colliery disaster song anybody know where his son Stephen is currently?

Morley Main disaster ~ when I first heard this I had to go out of the room

My dad was a miner and I also had the fears associated with the dangerous occupation of mining and the washing on the line in the back yard brings back memories too

I do hope that Cockersdale are happy for us to use some of Keith's songs, sometime

Ray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: GUEST,Black Hawk Unlogged
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 09:56 AM

Hi Ray - PM sent
(2nd attempt at posting this ??)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: GUEST,Black Hawk on works PC
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 10:47 AM

Ray,

I haven't got my copy with me but I am sure he is mentioned in the 'Folk Roundabout'.
I will check his address when I get home & pm you!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: r.padgett
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 08:48 AM

Right!

How to contact and see what he has that fits!!

Ray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: GUEST,Black Hawk on works PC
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 08:33 AM

Who is/was Bob Fortune?

Singer/songwriter from Redcar who writes mainly about Redcar & life there as it was when he was young. (age @ 60 now).
Frequent attender at the Cutty Wren Folk Club held in Skelton.
Marie Little recently taken up one of his songs concerning Blakey Rigg & Vin Garbutt has recorded at least one of his offerings.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: r.padgett
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 07:58 AM

Yes I have good memories of Tom and Bertha (Bertha I believe still in Worksop)

he was a good friend of John "Mitch" Mitchell who turnd up at Wakefield sing last Sunday afternoon, by the way

Ray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 07:20 AM

Yeah, the Doffin Mistress was most likely an Ulster sing, as Bertha, bless her, came from those parts and was a doffin mistress herself before meeting Tom.

Seeing their names on a thread does bring back a few memories. Every song was learned by Tom at his mother's knee. Never did find out if he had her knees pickled...

Twenty years ago later this year since Tom Brown joined a different choir, by the way. Time flies.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: r.padgett
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 06:10 AM

Good to here from you Malcolm Douglas and hope that you are getting "back on your feet"

The Doffin Mistress I have a recording by Bertha Brown (of Tom and Bertha) which is clearly from Ulster ~ alluded to by June Tabor on a tv folk programme!

I have just dug out a book of poems given to me by Ivy May of the Ecclesfield poet Jimmy Roebuck (1978) with some mining and file, rasp cutting and gimlet and fork making content!

Ray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 08:24 PM

Cheers, Oombanjo
This would link up nicely with the songs about the Tom Puddings coming down with the coal from Hatfield to Goole. I think we've just acquired the Tug 'Hatfield' to add to our fleet at the Waterways Museum. Goff Sherburn, Chris's dad, used to bring the coal down from Hatfield but he was skipper of 'Kellingley' tug. We all work on 'Wheldale', a sister tug now.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 04:20 PM

Five o'clock and all is well, miners are on their way to hell. Cross the bridge oer the line, half past five they're in on time. Into the mine a change of clothes, caplamp cage and down she goes. "Chorus" And into hell they go that day, to sweat and toil and earn their pay. To dream about a brighter day. When death wont be the price they pay. There are a few more verses to this Ray I wrote this a few years ago, about Hatfield Main and the bridge over the railway lines, between Dunscroft and Stainforth.I spent my early days in a house under the bridge on Southend and went to sleep with the sound engines shunting in the yard behind the houses, and woke with the hooters calling the men into work. In the summer the men would cross the bridge chatting and whistling. And in the winter you would just hear the sound of their feat crunching on the ice or snow. Thoughts of long ago I know, but you can have it if it's any good to you. Cheers Oombanjo. Oh, I did my training at Bentley and served my time at Hatfield Main.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 03:41 PM

True; but that song belongs to Ulster, not Yorkshire. 'Dalesman's Litany' is one of the non-traditional songs already at the Garland website; sung by Ray as it happens.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 03:20 PM

what about the Doffin Mistress - perhaps that could be yorkshire - there were plenty of textile mills of the sort in the song in Yorkshire?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 03:15 PM

A bit obvious, but how about The Daleman's Litany.

And does the fishing industry count as industrial?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: GUEST,G PICKLES
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 02:50 PM

In answer to Mhugh's query the Lofthouse Mining Disaster, the guy that you saw singing it was, I'm sure the late Peter Thorpe, not sure whether he wrote it.

Also a mining disaster song from Keith Marsden called Morley Main. Don't forget that Ray.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: r.padgett
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 01:02 PM

Anyone singing the Sheffield steel songs, Sheffield Grinders and similar songs please?

Who is/was Bob Fortune?

Any poems from the 1984/5 Miners' strike

What about navvies and those working on reservoirs in and around Derwent village as well as on the canals

Ray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: r.padgett
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 11:16 AM

Many thanks Henry

Also interested in whether "Coal not Dole" should be included and "Miner's Life"

on the basis that Yorkshire was most certainly "in the thick of the strike" and emotions ran high to say the least

I seem to recall a song "Maggie's Pit ponies" by I think Nancy Nicholson

Clearly I need to limit to Yorkshire songs and Yorkshire content (before I get into trouble)

Ray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: henryclem
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 04:42 AM

Ray - I've pm'd you re words & permission; also am putting Pitworld up on Myspace for you to have a listen.

Henry

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: r.padgett
Date: 21 Dec 08 - 03:48 AM

Geoff answer is really both! all; help welcome

We are looking for good relevant song content, as poems if no music!

Henry Clements I really like your Orgreave song can you let me have the words and permission?

Ian Ferguson ~ yes love to have a look at your book

Must be some 1984/5 mining strike songs somwhere too!

Anyone got the Bob Pegg songs/LP?

Ray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 06:31 PM

Ray - what is the agenda for this thread? Are you wanting to unearth traditional material or songs written more recently?
The reason I ask is that this weekend I we will be out carol singing with people who may have info on songs and also writers of songs who may give you permission to use their songs.
Quack!
Geoff.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: r.padgett
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 12:50 PM

Les to be honest we appear to be a bit short (like me), but also we appear to have some songs which haven't yet entered the "tradtion" and done the rounds for one reason or another and that is what YG are about popularising!!

Bruce yes please interested in all such songs that are available

BTW which of your email addresses I have got is the right one!!

Ray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 03:29 AM

Is Yorkshire a bit short on songs when compared with Durham and Tyneside then?

L in C

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 08:44 PM

Re Gordon Carter, to find out if you should know him, hear the sound clips at the site linked to. But anyone interested in Yorkshire colliery radicalism should know about Ginger Goodwin.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: GUEST,Bruce Michael Baillie
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 05:56 PM

Hi Ray,
I could send you the words AND a recording I did of a song by Terry Armytage called 'The Apprentice Diallers song'. It's about an apprentice mining surveyor back in the 50's-60's which is what Terry used to do, email me if you're interested.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 02:20 PM

Gret stuff.
Keep 'em coming. I like the sound of the Canadian stuff but permissions and copyrights are always a headache particularly from such a distance. Perhaps we need a volunteer in Canada! Bri and Maggie Roberts and family, Paul Ritzema?????

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: r.padgett
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 12:35 PM

Hello Ced nice to hear from you and info re 4pence a day, cheers

Peter Bond writing about the Huskar Pit disaster of 1838, good good hope lets us have permission to use this song ~ thanks Nick

And Steve yes any from Shuttle and Cage and Come all ye Bold Miners that are linked/came for Yorkshire if we have the words if not the music

Ian Mather has let me have his 1984/5 song

Tony Morris has let me have his Trappy Lad CD of ironstone mining and he is a YG volunteer (not sure what or how many we have permission for!!)

Some sad times Bob the postman, money breeds greed!

Who is Gordon Carter? should we know him??

Onwards and upwards

Ray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 08:48 AM

They say a teaspoonful of Copenhagen Snuff washed down with a glass of water will get rid of worms.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 08:23 AM

Raymondo

Peter Bond wrote a cracking song about the mining disaster at Silkstone when 17 (?) children were drowned, the mine owners were absolved of all blame as it was "an Act of God" which is the title of the song. Some of the the children were as young as 7 and there is still a momument to them (raised by public subscription) to them in the graveyard in Silkstone. I'll let you have the worms over New Year and try to contact Peter for whatever permissions you may require

Cheers

Nick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 08:10 AM

Ginger Goodwin was a coal miner from Treeton in the West Riding who came out to Canada and worked in pits in Cape Breton, the Crow's Nest Pass, and the Comox Valley. He was murdered by police because of his work as a union organiser and is revered in Canada as a labour and pacifist hero. There are several songs about Ginger, including this one on Mark Gregory's site unionsong.com, written by Richard von Fuchs.

My favourite Ginger song is this one by Gordon Carter, descendant of Comox Valley miners: The Day They Shot Ginger Down. "Do we hold a grudge? You bet!"

Gordon Carter's recently released second CD "Diary Of A Coal Town" has a song called "Yorkshire Boy", which I believe is based on his own family's story:

We came here from Yorkshire
I was just a child
We got here in April
This town was running wild

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: GUEST,HughM
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 07:55 AM

If you can get hold of Mike Donald's albums "Songs of the Broad Acres" and "North by North-East" there is a song which refers to lead mining in Arkengarthdale. Unfortunately I can't remember which album it's on.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Hoblander
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 07:25 AM

Ray what about the ironstone mining songs, and all the other industrial songs written by Graeme Miles , do they count? Most of the ironstone mines where in East Cleveland, in the North Riding of Yorkshire, as it were when I was a lad. Don't forget the songs of Ron Angel, Vin Garbutt, Bob Fortune, and many others from south of the Tees.
Kevin

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 03:46 PM

As for lead mines. There are plenty of disused ex lead mines in Upper Wharfedale. Bradford University was analysing the remains of pollutants from them when I worked there about twelve years back. I was doing some of the analysis.
Bob Peggs's "Leaving the Dales" recorded by his band Mr. Fox (The complete Mr.Fox - Transatlantic Records - two LPs re-released as one package in 1975) mentions lead mines.
Quack!
Geoff the Duck.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: GUEST,Ian Ferguson Guest
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 03:31 PM

Ray somewhere amongst all my clutter I have a book of mining songs produced as a fund raising effort during the strike. If you have any use for these I will look it out.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: henryclem
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 03:13 PM

I've got a couple of songs - "Orgreave" is on my Myspace -
http://myspace.com/henryclements
and also "Pitworld" which I'd be happy to put on there if you want to have a listen.

As long as the blue clicky works ...

Henry

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 12:36 PM

Ray,
I've got all the mining song books including the American ones, Shuttle & Cage, Come all ye bold Miners(both editions). Main problems are sources are scarce and the old problem with anything touched by MacColl and Lloyd.
Anyway if you think a song is worth including let me know which it is and I'll check the books and let you have copies of the songs.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: ced2
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 12:20 PM

Ar ata Ray? I thowt that I'd teld thee o' tale o' 4d a day abaht 3 year sin. Int "Shuttle & Cage" published bi WMA, McColl sez he gettn' it from t' sin'in' of John Gowland a "retired lead miner fra Middleton in Teesdale". Shuttle & Cage nah long aht o' print were published int mid 50s and at that time half o' Middleton were in God's Own County and tother bit were in sum forin place full of offcumdens. Then Ted Heath and his 1970s Local Governent Act piched that bit of Teedsale as were in Yorkshire (along wi Middlesbro') to form the much despised Cleveland. (More bits were also nicked to form Lanceshire after Manchester and Liverpool went their own way.) Tha must ave 'eard me sin'in it Hilary used to do a nice bit of whistle playin to go wi it. Sithee Ced

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Musket
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 10:26 AM

It was Middleton in Teesdale where Ewan collected ' Fourpence A Day. '

Still in Yorkshire THEN.

eric

If it helps, when Mike Harding wrote that wonderful photo book, Walking The Dales, he reproduced the lyrics, as a Yorkshire song. (Swaledale.)

I have heard people sing verses that McColl never claimed, so like many traditional songs, it's Dad had a bike.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 08:32 AM

It was Middleton in Teesdale where Ewan collected ' Fourpence A Day. '

Still in Yorkshire THEN.

eric

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: GUEST,HughM
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 07:44 AM

I remember hearing a song about a disaster at the Lofthouse colliery near Wakefield. If I remember rightly the colliers accidentally broke through into some old flooded workings and were overwhelmed by the sudden rush of water. The song was sung by a chap with a beard who used to wear a T-shirt with the words "beer garden gnome" on the front. I think he wrote the song. Does anyone remember him?

Subject: Lyr Add: TIME TO MOVE ON (I Mather)
From: Musket
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 07:00 AM

Ok Ray.

I dug this out. It is a bit of a personal song as it is about me in every sense of the word.

I think I sang it to the tune that Christie Moore sings Little Musgrave.

Time to move on

As I walked down to the club, to have a pint and cheer,
Live Aid now was saving the world, it was music to my ear.
But I looked round and others looked away, a bad taste in my beer,
They couldn't remember if I worked, if was there or here.

The world is changing once again, we must now move on,
Traditions and skills of the working man, vanishing one by one.

I started working down the pit, an apprentice at the mine,
It was the summer of '79, I felt I was doing fine.
My mum I knew she wasn't happy, towing the community line,
No lad of hers before had gone, she felt I was doing time.

The world is changing once again, we must now move on,
Traditions and skills of the working man, vanishing one by one.

But I was happy, I had money, skills and loads of mates,
A pint in the club but just have one, when I was working lates.
A job, security and a pension come to he that waits,
Bide your time, do your job, turn up at the colliery gates.

The world is changing once again, we must now move on,
Traditions and skills of the working man, vanishing one by one.

I married young because I could, the future was my own,
Earning the money to buy a house, no need for a further loan.
A baby bouncing on my knee, whatever could go wrong?
Scargill said out brothers out, this strike will be hard and long.

The world is changing once again, we must now move on,
Traditions and skills of the working man, vanishing one by one.

A Yorkshire pit in Nottinghamshire, who didn't vote to strike,
The lads came down from Rotherham, to persuade us with all their might.
Stuck in the middle, what could I do? To keep my baby fed?
Time to move on, change my life, fed up of being red.

The world is changing once again, we must now move on,
Traditions and skills of the working man, vanishing one by one.

Do my mates remember me, laughing and singing a song?
Or do they think that I went back, for what they thought was wrong.
Easier still to shut me out, as if I didn't exist,
But all I know as I moved on, my first life will be missed.

The world is changing once again, we must now move on,
Traditions and skills of the working man, vanishing one by one.

 I Mather 1985

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: r.padgett
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 04:34 AM

Ted is/was from Lancashire, this is a cracking song and Gary and Vera among others sang this I believe

Ian just the time period we are looking for 1984/5 Miners Pit strike are there any songs and poems from this period which survive?

Ray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Tangledwood
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 04:47 PM

COAL HOLE CAVALRY by Ted Edwards?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Musket
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 01:41 PM

I always thought fourpence a day was more Durham than Yorkshire if I were to be pedantic. (There were lead mines in Swaledale, but most were slightly further North.) Similarly, Ewan McColl's songs were mainly from the BBC radio Ballad "The Big Hewer" which was about mining in the North East. He wrote some wonderful songs for that.

I was a Yorkshire miner, so didn't sing many songs about it. (A bit hard spending Sunday night at The Boundary singing about how hard it was and Monday morning laid on the transformer like a good pit electrician...)

I did write a few songs years ago about the loss of community after the strike, and if I can find them, will record them and send on. Can't promise mind.. A long time since they saw light of day. Memories are about a different me from a different time, and I try to think I have moved on, so buried my songs. Don't perform them now, and not too sure where I put them?

WIll have a look though.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Folkiedave
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 12:16 PM

Aged Person's Home if you please.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 12:12 PM

Indeed it is! Would you like to sing it?

Ray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Ian Hendrie
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 12:11 PM

I have a recording somewhere of Ewan MacColl recounting how he was seeking out the words to 'Fourpence a Day' and had not had much success. While waiting for a bus in, I think it might have been Richmond, Yorkshire, he decided to pop his head round the door of an Old Folks Home (is that still politically correct?) and ask did anyone know it. Someone fortunately did and that's apparently how we have the song today.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: Leadfingers
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 11:30 AM

You could start with 'Fourpence a Day' - Yorkshire Lead Mining ! Its in the D T - FOUR PENCE A DAY

Subject: Lyr Req: Yorkshire Mining and Industrial songs
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 11:12 AM

We at the Yorkshire Garland website are continuing our second phase and I am creating a list which we hope will attain 40 songs of mining and industrial content of which we hope we will have the provenance, digital recording and permission to include in our website!

Yorkshire relevance is key to our quest and CDs in WAV with songs are extremely useful, although I/we are at the listing stage at the moment and cannot say that all received will be put on the website!!

Mining songs in Yorkshire are some what in short supply and we are now in the contemporary field for good songs in this category

NB: we clearly also need permission as well as the sound recordings

Any contributions gratefully received!!

Ray for YG

Other good Yorkshire songs are also needed!!

Many thanks and have a good Christmas/New Year