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Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?

Mr Red 17 Dec 08 - 05:20 PM
open mike 18 Dec 08 - 01:40 AM
Joe Offer 18 Dec 08 - 02:12 AM
Joe Offer 18 Dec 08 - 02:20 AM
Mr Red 18 Dec 08 - 03:35 AM
treewind 18 Dec 08 - 03:55 AM
Mr Red 18 Dec 08 - 04:05 AM
Mr Red 18 Dec 08 - 04:56 AM
treewind 18 Dec 08 - 05:57 AM
melodeonboy 18 Dec 08 - 10:44 AM
Mr Red 18 Dec 08 - 11:17 AM
OldPossum 18 Dec 08 - 11:36 AM
treewind 18 Dec 08 - 12:16 PM
GUEST,Volgadon 18 Dec 08 - 03:20 PM
GUEST,Volgadon 18 Dec 08 - 03:24 PM
Artful Codger 18 Dec 08 - 05:43 PM
melodeonboy 18 Dec 08 - 05:44 PM
Mr Red 20 Dec 08 - 06:12 AM
Mr Red 20 Dec 08 - 11:39 AM
Mr Red 23 Dec 08 - 04:20 AM
GUEST,Volgadon 23 Dec 08 - 06:14 AM
Mr Red 23 Dec 08 - 06:52 AM
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Subject: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 05:20 PM

html <TITLE> tag.
if I wanted to put Russian (or Greek) into the title to be properly displayed in the target language - how do I do it?
with Western European languages it is easy because the font allows for it. On a PC anyway.
Within the browser one can use hash codes.
But the browser title relies on the OS not the browser. Which begs the question about Macs and Linux flavours.

Any ideas anyone?

the first page where I have needed to do this is FAQ's in Russian

Anyone read Russian? web translators are more than imperfect, even when you translate forwards and backwards until it looks right.


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: open mike
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 01:40 AM

i have foudn fonts evren for medievqal scandeinavian runic writing
it should not be hard to find cyrrillic.

http://www.fingertipsoft.com/ref/cyrillic/fontlist.html


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 02:12 AM

Boy, that's a good question, Mr. Red. Within the text of the HTML document, you have a number of solutions, but in the TITLE? That's a puzzler.

At first glance, I thought you wanted to put Cyrillic characters in the title of a thread. That would be a definite no-no.

I guess what I'd to is try to find HTML documents on Russian Websites and see if their titles are in Cyrillic characters. If so, do a "view source" and copy what they did. So, I checked russia.ru, a likely choice. Well....they have Cyrillic characters in the title, but I can't tell how they did it. I guess if you typed it on a word processor and got the characters to work there, maybe they'd work in the HTML. Otherwise, it seems to me that there should be ALT codes that will work. If you study this Wikipedia article closely enough, you may be able to find it.


Good luck. If you come across a solution, make sure it's posted here. I wanna know.


-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 02:20 AM

OK, I got it to work. Just paste the Cyrillic letters in between the <title> tags, and save the document. A warning will come up that you will lose the Cyrillic characters if you just save it, and a "save as" box will pop up. Save as "Unicode," and it should work.

I have to say, I was quite pleased with myself for figuring this out.

Good luck.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 03:35 AM

HTML is no problem, I use hash codes - like alt codes only you specify the number of the character in the HTML set. Works in all browsers I use

Will try your wheeze tonight. The next problem is to make sure it is saying what I want.

eg &#1046; gives this symbol Ж (well it does here, IE7 PC XP))

Joe hash codes do work.


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: treewind
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 03:55 AM

Are you sure you can't use the "&xxxx;" names or spell characters out in hex (&#xxxx;) in title strings, as in any other HTML text? You certain can and should in URLS if they contain special characters like the "&" in <a href="http://www.example.com?id=123&name=Joe">.

In any case, if you embed the actual characters (in unicode or UTF-8) make sure your HTML header also specifies the character set, or browsers that have a different default setting will get it wrong.

Of of the problems with a forum like Mudcat is that the thread pages don't and can't specify a charset, because individual postings on the same page might use different encodings. ISO-8559-1 and UTF-8 are the commonest, and UK mudcatters often post "£" signs as a direct character, with messy consequences for some of us. You have to use &pound; for it to work reliably for everyone.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 04:05 AM

Unicode it is then. Notepad in XP Save As Unicode (I refused Unicode big endian) Save As type was text as it was Notepad. File extension .htm.

As Joe says

Thanks for that.

Dasvidanya as they say. Any Russian speakers on the 'Cat? I work with someone who studied it 20 years ago, but he is a little rusty.


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 04:56 AM

using hash codes obviates character set and relies on the default of the browser. Has codes don't work in the title tag. By and large I have specified a CSS class that specifies Russian anyway.


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: treewind
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 05:57 AM

No, numeric character references are unambiguously a subset of Unicode, which is also the same as ISO 8859-1 ("Latin-1") for the first 256 codes. It's only typing or pasting in characters (in whatever charset you are using in your editor) that might result in either an 8 bit Latin-1 (or possibly other code) character or a 2 byte UTF-8 sequence, which a browser might get wrong.

And titles may contain character entities, at least in HTML4.1 - I can't be bothered to look up all the other versions of HTML as well...

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 10:44 AM

I wouldn't know. It's all Greek to me!


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 11:17 AM

er that should be Geek.

I check with Mozilla 1.0.summit, IE5.5 FF 2 & Opera 5. (Should be HTML 4+).
Because they are still out there, that's why. I can think of one festival organiser still using legacy equipment like that. Or was a year ago. And that was in the North American continent!

Which ensures compatibility in most instance on most browsers but IE7 has changed things for monopolistic reasons. Firefox has maintained continuity. If I switch on debugging there is not a site that does not throw errors (or warnings) on IE7 and I deal with some pretty big companies.

I have yet to check Joe's wheeze at home on legacy browsers.


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: OldPossum
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 11:36 AM

Whatever you do, it will only work if the end users have selected a font for the title bar that includes cyrillic characters. It is quite likely that they have not done this, unless the are actually in Russia or Eastern Europe.


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: treewind
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 12:16 PM

I don't know about the title bar, but in normal displayed text, browsers will switch to a font that has the required character if the character isn't in the font it would normally use.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 03:20 PM

Do you want me to check that FAQ for things like my hovercraft is full of eels?


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 03:24 PM

In all honesty, the translation is rubbish. I'll be happy to translate it myself.


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: Artful Codger
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 05:43 PM

If you're using an HTML <title> tag, then have you tried HTML character escapes, such as &#ddd;, where "ddd" is the decimal Unicode value of the character? It's the same as what one should do when posting Cyrillic text into messages here. I haven't tried this with titles, but if it doesn't work, I'd say you're just SOL unless you want to change the locale encoding for your browser. If it does work, don't worry whether other users will be able to view them properly--Unicode makes fiddling with code page settings unnecessary for any browsers released in, like, the past decade.

I've written a couple scripts to handle converting literal text on the clipboard to escaped HTML. See the threads on htmlesc.py and HtmlEsc.java. I tried to get the admins to put them where folks could more easily find them, but so far no response to that idea.


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 05:44 PM

"er that should be Geek."

Ha ha. Good one, Mr Red!


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 06:12 AM

Just tried it at home
definitely an OS problem. (Mozilla 1 and IE5.5)
even FF2 can't handle it in Win98 (SP2)
Will try on Joy's PC tonitght (XP IE7)


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 11:39 AM

GUEST,Volgadon

Do you want me to check that FAQ for things like my hovercraft is full of eels?

Yes Yes Please, cresby.com has a "contact me" page. If we establish HTML e-mail communication I think we could solve that problem of how to communicate in cyrillic.

And how did you know that Mr Red (=revolutionary or =adonis) has an hovercraft? and they are elvas not eels on the River Severn round here. But you get what I mean.

My colleage Max has helped. and using the translation site I did convert forwards and backwards to double check but colloquial grammar, syntax and idiom do not translate too well. Still a better joke than the marmalade session I translated into Danish. (think jam)


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 04:20 AM

refresh
in the hope that Volgadon's offer is still available.


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 06:14 AM

Working on it!


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Subject: RE: Tech: cyrillic languge in title bar how?
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 06:52 AM

Many thanks

I await with baited breath (it's how you catch eels).


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