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Taborer's Pipes : Help, please ?

Bryn Pugh 18 Dec 08 - 10:36 AM
maeve 18 Dec 08 - 10:55 AM
Desert Dancer 18 Dec 08 - 11:03 AM
Dave Swan 18 Dec 08 - 12:12 PM
Jack Blandiver 18 Dec 08 - 01:36 PM
GUEST,Dick Bagwell 18 Dec 08 - 08:08 PM
Bryn Pugh 19 Dec 08 - 05:49 AM
Leadfingers 19 Dec 08 - 10:18 AM
GUEST,frances 13 Aug 09 - 06:47 PM
The Fooles Troupe 14 Aug 09 - 12:26 AM
Jack Blandiver 14 Aug 09 - 04:27 AM
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Subject: BS: Taborer's Pipes : Help, please ?
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 10:36 AM

This might or might not be a music thread, but some get pissed off where any distinction between music and BS threads becomes blurred.

I have posted elsewhere that scored music is "tadpoles on telegraph wires", for this eejit ; so

Can any taborer (or anyone else, for this matter) tell me, what tonic, or original key, would a pipe have to be in for its overblows to be in C ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Taborer's Pipes : Help, please ?
From: maeve
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 10:55 AM

Looks as musical as anyone could hope for, Bryn. I'll be interested in the answers as well.

maeve


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Subject: RE: BS: Taborer's Pipes : Help, please ?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 11:03 AM

I've not tried a tabor pipe, but regular whistles give you an octave above on overblowing (so the same key), and I think the physics of such things would make that true on any pipe...

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: BS: Taborer's Pipes : Help, please ?
From: Dave Swan
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 12:12 PM

Try Dick Bagwell. He'll know, and if he's around will usually get right back to you.

D


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Subject: RE: BS: Taborer's Pipes : Help, please ?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 01:36 PM

A 3-hole pipe blows between the second, third & fourth octaves, the English fingering giving a major scale from the tonic over an octave + a fourth (tops), so if your pipe is in D (such as the cheaper Generation pipes) the scale will be D. C pipes are less common, though a bit of masking tape on a C whistle should have the desired effect.


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Subject: RE: Taborer's Pipes : Help, please ?
From: GUEST,Dick Bagwell
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 08:08 PM

Becky's on the right track. The bottom, i.e. lowest, tone of any pipe is the fundamental. On the 3-hole (tabor) pipe we don't use those bottom notes, because with 3 holes there's not enough of a scale to do much. (Also the notes are very weak.) So we start our scale on the first overblow, yes, the octave, and construct a scale using the overblows (partials)of the different pipe lengths, which of course is determined by how many holes you're covering. This is possible because if you continue to overblow the pipe, the next tone you get is the fifth of the basic tone, then the 4th, etc. It's a little more complicated to actually play tunes, because so many need the 4th below the tonic (which is the 5th of the basic scale)so most often on a D pipe, the most common, you'll want to be playing in key of G. And half-holing the the C# down to C natural. I seem to be recreating my "Pipe & Tabor Tutor," which (here a crass commercial move) can be ordered from Sweetheart Flute Co, Lark in the Morning, and--in the UK--the Early Music Shop. Also Susato, in NC, which is the only manufacturer I know of that makes C pipes. Very good ones, out of PVC. The practical scale of the tabor pipe can include the leading tone below the fundamental (reach your pinkie around and partially stop the end)up to an octave and a fifth (or even sixth if you really push your luck!) And as with all fipple flutes, you can cross finger and half-hole some addtional chromatic notes that might let you sleaze through a quick passage. So back to the original question, you can get a C scale on a pipe with a fundamental of C; but as noted above, unless the tune you want to play doesn't go any lower than the leading tone, for a better C scale you need a pipe in F. And that would be a problem, 'cause I don't anybody who makes them.


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Subject: RE: Taborer's Pipes : Help, please ?
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 05:49 AM

Thank you, Dick, and everyone else who has posted, for your information and not least, your courtesy.


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Subject: RE: Taborer's Pipes : Help, please ?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 10:18 AM

It seems to me that very few six hole whistles really work if you tape over the top three and try to turn it into a Tabor pipe .


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Subject: RE: Taborer's Pipes : Help, please ?
From: GUEST,frances
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 06:47 PM

Can I ask why you want a pipe in 'C'? Is it to play with other people?Or is it because you are used to playing a recorder and what to use the same fingering?


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Subject: RE: Taborer's Pipes : Help, please ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 12:26 AM

QUOTE
we start our scale on the first overblow, yes, the octave, and construct a scale using the overblows (partials)
UNQUOTE

If you have ever seen that devilish whistle with no finger holes, that's how you play it - all overblows. :-)

QUOTE
used to playing a recorder and what to use the same fingering
UNQUOTE

Whistle fingering is subtly different from recorder fingering (they have a different number of holes, for a start!)...
and the same relative fingering on any pitch whistle will give you the same relative pitches relative to the base note - i.e. the fingering for the 2nd pitch (D on a C whistle) will always give the same relative pitch (2nd) on any key whistle (E on a D whistle, A on a G, etc) - which is WHY they are called 'transposing instruments!

So if you have a D whistle and 'read the dots' (as if you are playing on a C whistle) from a C whistle pitched sheet music, you will play in D - and get a horrible mess if the others are 'playing in C'. Because the 2nd on a C whistle is D, and the 2nd on a D whistle is E.... been there done that when someone who had learnt on a C pitched recorder was given a recorder pitched in F, and "refused" to learn 'correct fingering'... :-)

To play some keys relative to the base or home key, eg, in D on a C whistle is 'not for beginners' and you don't have all the correct pitches on there (no sharps), and you need to 'create' them by cross fingering, or half holing - really experienced good players can, depending also on just how well the whistle will sound when doing this... but you can play in G on a D whistle, you need to flatten the C# (this is called cross-fingering) by using differing fingering...


Confused yet? well, so was I for ages... :-)


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Subject: RE: Taborer's Pipes : Help, please ?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 04:27 AM

If you have ever seen that devilish whistle with no finger holes, that's how you play it - all overblows. :-)

Not strictly true; the overtone flute (as such things have become known, though they do have traditional names according to their country of origin, such as seljeflote in Norway) has a very crucial finger-hole - i.e. the open end, which is stopped to change the acoustic properties of the flute this giving the distinctive scale. You might flatten a 3-hole pipe a little by dropping your little finger over the end, but stopping the open end isn't standard practise! However, on my low-D Overton 3-hole pipe, I do exactly that, using the first of the three holes thus creating an overtone flute of great versatility and atypical musical charm.


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