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How Green Was My Valley (songs)

Artful Codger 21 Dec 08 - 03:53 PM
Artful Codger 21 Dec 08 - 06:43 PM
GUEST,kenbrock 21 Dec 08 - 09:49 PM
JJ 22 Dec 08 - 09:07 AM
Fred McCormick 22 Dec 08 - 02:20 PM
Artful Codger 23 Dec 08 - 12:49 AM
GUEST,julia 23 Dec 08 - 07:43 PM
GUEST,Katherine Brobeck [Scots/Swedish not Welsh] 29 Oct 09 - 11:00 PM
Artful Codger 30 Oct 09 - 02:03 AM
GUEST,Louise 06 Jan 10 - 03:14 PM
GUEST,Ed C in New Orleans 26 Apr 10 - 03:50 PM
GUEST,John Davies 06 Feb 11 - 11:50 AM
GUEST,Laufou 15 Feb 13 - 04:51 AM
GUEST,Joan Wood 04 Apr 13 - 11:06 PM
GUEST 11 May 13 - 04:07 PM
Artful Codger 11 May 13 - 08:56 PM
Artful Codger 11 May 13 - 10:14 PM
GUEST,Julia L 12 May 13 - 09:50 PM
GUEST,CoriSCapnSkip 19 Mar 15 - 03:26 AM
GUEST,CoriSCapnSkip 19 Mar 15 - 03:32 AM
oggie 19 Mar 15 - 05:41 AM
GUEST,CoriSCapnSkip 20 Mar 15 - 01:09 AM
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Subject: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 21 Dec 08 - 03:53 PM

Can you help to identify the songs in the film "How Green Was My Valley", correlating them to the scenes in which they occur? I was able to identify a few from my limited knowledge, and also found a list of most of them at the Turner Classic Movies site. Some are listed by English names, although I only recall two songs being sung in English ("God Save the Queen" and "Here's a man won't get drunk"--is that it's real title?)

So, if you could match songs with the scenes (preferably using the times I outline below), and provide Welsh names where TCM only provided the English, it would be a big help.

Here's TCM's list of titles (and credits):
"I Saw a Tiny Streamlet" by Owain Alaw
"The Sixpence," composer undetermined.
"Cwm Rhondda" music by John Hughes, lyrics by Rev. William Williams
"Calon Lan" music by John Hughes, Welsh lyrics by Gwyrosydd
"Myfanwy-Arabella" music by Joseph Parry, Welsh lyrics by Mynyddag
"God Save the Queen" music lyrics by Henry Carey
"Penpark" music by J. T. Rees, Welsh lyrics by Charles Wesley, arranged by Tudor Williams
"Bryn Calfaria" music by William Owen, Welsh lyrics by Rev. William Williams
"Llef" music lyrics by G. H. Arfon
"Hob I Deri Dando" Welsh folk song, new Welsh lyrics by Tudor Williams
"Men of Harlech" "Llwyn Onn" "Mochyn Du" "Mentra Gwen" Welsh folk songs
"Peter O'Pea" Irish folk song.


Here's the scenes in which songs occur, listed with the timing on the DVD I saw:

0:05 ??: Title music
3.50 ??: Men walking home from mines
12:00 ??: Wedding: walking up the aisle
13:40 Llwyn on (The Ash Grove): Wedding: procession out of the church
14.10 ??: wedding: bringing out the cake
15.15 Here's a man won't get drunk: wedding celebration
16:00 Mochyn du (The Black Pig): Wedding celebration
34.50 Mentra gwen (The stars in heaven are bright): serenading mother on recovery
36.05 ??: same scene, mother at door
48:30 God Save the Queen: in church, after receipt of royal invitation
53.10 ??: hymn in church
1.05:38 ??: Angharad's wedding procession (same as an earlier song?)
1.20:17 ??: Death of Ivor
1.27:10 ??: Men walking to mine
1.41:40 ??: hymn
1.52:10 ??: descent into mine after the explosion
1.56:xx ??: ascent from the mine with the body
1.56:45 ??: ending
1.57.52 ??: film credits

Thanks! (And I suspect some others will thank you as well.)


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 21 Dec 08 - 06:43 PM

Working with the TCM list and listening to clips, I was able to match most of the tunes with where they occur. I could still use help with the remaining bits. Changes shown in bold.

0:05 Rhyfelgyrch Gwyr Harlech (Men of Harlech): Title music
3.50 Cwm Rhondda (Rhondda Valley): Men walking home from mines
12:00 Calon Lan: Wedding: walking up the aisle
13:40 Llwyn on (The Ash Grove): Wedding: procession out of the church
14.10 Hob y derry dando: wedding: bringing out the cake
15.15 Peter O'Pea (Here's a man won't get drunk): wedding celebration
16:00 Mochyn du (The Black Pig): Wedding celebration
34.50 Mentra gwen (The stars in heaven are bright): serenading mother on recovery
36.05 Myfanwy: same scene, mother at door
48:30 God Save the Queen: in church, after receipt of royal invitation
53.10 Penparc: hymn in church
1.05:38 Cwm Rhondda: Angharad's wedding procession (same as an earlier song)
1.20:17 ??: Death of Ivor
1.27:10 Bryn Calfaria: Men walking to mine
1.41:40 Llef (aka "Deus salutis"): hymn
1.52:10 ??: descent into mine after the explosion
1.56:xx ??: ascent from the mine with the body
1.56:45 Myfanwy: ending
1.57.52 ??: film credits

Notes:
Calon Lan: Gwyrosydd (lyricist) = Daniel James (1847-1920).
Llef: by Griffith Hugh Jones (Gutyn Arfon), Gemau Mawl, 1890; written in memory of his brother Dewi Arfon (David Hugh Jones).
I Saw a Tiny Streamlet: Owain Alaw [Pencerdd] = John Owen (1821-1883).

No clue about "The Sixpence" or "I Saw a Tiny Streamlet" (though I suspect this is the music for the end credits).


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: GUEST,kenbrock
Date: 21 Dec 08 - 09:49 PM

fwiw there was a Broadway musical in 1966 based on How Green Was My Valley titled A Time For Singing. It only lasted 41 performances. Info here: http://www.castalbumdb.com/rec.cfm?RNumber=1176


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: JJ
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 09:07 AM

I have the original cast album of "A Time For Singing." (Warner Brothers #1639) Although the score has some interesting moments, the show doesn't really work and closed after only 41 performances.

One of the reasons the show failed, it would seem, was because the boy cast as Huw was not very good in the part. He sounds hopeless in his few snippets of dialogue on the LP.

And it ends with Angharad leaving her husband to be with Mr. Griffith, the minister!


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 02:20 PM

This is just a guess because I haven't seen the film in donkey's years but I'm wondering if "The Sixpence" could be I've Got Sixpence, aka Jolly Sixpence. A version of said song is in DT under
@displaysong.cfm?SongID=3118 .


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 12:49 AM

I thought of that as a possibility. But if it was, it must've been a snippet in a schoolyard scene that I overlooked. The remaining unidentified pieces are all in Welsh, and are rather tragic or hymn-like in nature.


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: GUEST,julia
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 07:43 PM

I have the LP for A Time for Singing- the composer John Morris is a personal friend. All the music for the show is original and although most of it is "broadway" style, there is a very lovely lullaby called "Three Ships" which I sing as a Christmas carol. In the show, it is sung by the matriarch of the village to comfort them in their loss.

best- Julia


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Subject: RE: "How Green Was My Valley" (tunes used)
From: GUEST,Katherine Brobeck [Scots/Swedish not Welsh]
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 11:00 PM

Donald Crisp sings that bawdy song: "Here's a man, won't get drunk. . ." (Peter o'Pea)
don't know its source.
Here are the tunes:
You've hit the jackpot -- finding a fan who really loves the music in 'How Green was my Valley' & "the Corn is Green" -- I'd never seen another movie more touching. They introduced me to the beauty of Welsh music -- folksongs & hymns.
What do the mine-pit boys sing, walking down the road?
Pa answering Huw in the mine, being brought up:
the very simple, poignant: "Penpark" by J.T.Rees (1857-1949)
"Myfanwy" is used when Sara Allgood comes outside for the 1st time after her illness.
"LLef" is another tragic one, don't remember hearing it in this movie.
LLYWN ON is the "Ash Grove" sung by all old Girl Scouts. The wedding used 'Calon Lan' played quickly.
Touching fill music was written by Alfred Newman, Randy Newman's dad. 'Myfanwy' was used throughout. I'm very familiar w Bryn Calfaria but can't remember which scene, if any.
Please contact me for more. I'm very fond of them all!


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 02:03 AM

Katherine, see the second post, where I supplied many of the missing bits in the first post, including most that you've mentioned.

The men sang "Bryn Calfaria" as they were walking to the mine toward the end of the film (1.27:10). "Llef" was one of the hymns sung in church (1.41:40); I now notice it was also used during the death of Ivor (1.20:17). And you're right: the song as Pa and Huw were coming up from the mine with the body is "Penparc".

This fills in two more gaps in my chart:
1.20:17 Penparc: death of Ivor
1.56:xx Llef: ascent from the mine with the body

There remain only two bits unidentified: the dirge-like hymn as the men are descending into the mine and music behind the final credits.

Do you have words for "Peter O'Pea" (beyond the verse used in the film)?


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: GUEST,Louise
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 03:14 PM

This message is for Julia who wrote:


"I have the LP for A Time for Singing- the composer John Morris is a personal friend. All the music for the show is original and although most of it is "broadway" style, there is a very lovely lullaby called "Three Ships" which I sing as a Christmas carol. In the show, it is sung by the matriarch of the village to comfort them in their loss."

Julia,

I was just wondering if you knew of anywhere I could get a copy of the sheet music for this show. I am lucky enough to have a copy of this musical and I absolutely adore the music. I can't find the sheet music anywhere and I'm desperate to get my hands on it. If you knew of any way that I could get it I would great appreciate it.
Thank you,
Louise


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: GUEST,Ed C in New Orleans
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 03:50 PM

Who knew I would find this site? I am a fan of the Newman family, but was surprised to find that Alfred Newman only arranged and conducted this non original music. THE SIXPENCE is used in the scenes with Maureen O'Hara and Walter Pigeon, and has always been my favorite piece in the score. I read somewhere that Newman has used that song in other movies, but not definite about that. Hail to the Newmans. If Alfred knew his nephew had written Short People he would be turning over in his grave...or perhaps de-composing.


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: GUEST,John Davies
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 11:50 AM

Louise - the hymntune penparc or penpark is available here - have just found it!



http://www.hymntime.com/tch/pdf/p/e/n/Penpark.pdf

Regards

John Davies


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: GUEST,Laufou
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 04:51 AM

Does anyone know if there is a song book for all the songs from this movie? I know the title song 'HOW GREEN WAS MY VALLEY" Has a sheet music but I am interested in all of the songs.

Thank you


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: GUEST,Joan Wood
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 11:06 PM

I love this movie and the music - I don't think all of it is Welsh though, but the Celtic countries frequently sing each other's songs. My favorite is the theme that's associated with Angharad and the preacher - "The Sixpence" also called "It is not the tear at this moment shed" - I think this is an Irish song by Moore.   I always catch my breath when they play this in the movie. I think there are also a couple of other points where the music sounds Irish, especially at the end of the scene when Mrs. Morgan tells all the village people who are greeting her after her convalescence to come in the house and eat.

What a magnificent movie! The music and beautiful singing is as much a character as any in the Morgan family.


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 13 - 04:07 PM

I love the movie HOW GREEN WAS MY VALLEY, and I love the music of which I have some MP3 files. I am interested in more of such glorious music. Please contact me.

rogerontheoldtraps@yahoo.com


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 11 May 13 - 08:56 PM

Ms. Wood, thanks for the information on "The Sixpence". I've prepared an ABC transcription of the melody from the score in Stanford's The National Song Book.

Click to play MIDI (joeweb); download PDF.


%abc-2.1
X:1
T:It Is Not the Tear
C:Text by Thomas Moore, pub. 1810
C:Tune: The Sixpence
S:The National Song Book (p. 121); Charles Villiers Stanford, 1906. Only the melody is
S:transcribed here.
S:The text was published in Moore's _Irish Melodies_, vol. 3 (1810).
M:C
L:1/8
Q:1/4=92 " Smoothly, and in moderate time."
K:Eb
!p! (GB) | (c_d) c B G2 (FG) | B2 B2 C2 E F | G2 B G (FA) G F |
w: 1.~It* is* not the tear, at this mo-ment shed, When the cold turf has just* been laid
E4 E2 (GB) | (c_d) c B G2 F G | B2 B2 C2 E F | G2 B G (FA) G F |
w: o'er him, That can tell* how be-lov'd was the friend that's fled, Or how deep in our hearts* we de-
E4 E2 E F | "^cresc." G3 B e2 d e | (fe) (de) c2 (BA) | (GB) (cd) e3 d |
w: plore him. 'Tis the tear, thro' ma-ny a long* day* wept, 'Tis* life's* whole* path o'er-
c4 B2 !p! G B | (c_dc) B G2 (FG) | B2 B2 C2 E F | (G2 B) G (FA) (GF) | E4 HE2 ||
w: sha-ded; ;Tis the one** re-mem-brance,* fond-ly kept, When all light--er griefs* have* fa-ded.
%%vskip 0.25in
%%leftmargin 2.5in
W: Thus his memory, like some holy light,
W: \    Kept alive in our hearts, will improve them,
W: For worth shall look fairer, and truth more bright,
W: \    When we think how he lived but to love them.
W: And as fresher flowers the sod perfume
W: \    Where buried saints are lying,
W: So our hearts shall borrow a sweetening bloom
W: \    From the image he left there in dying!


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 11 May 13 - 10:14 PM

With a bit more searching, I found that the Welsh name of "I saw a tiny streamlet" is "Y Ddeilen ar yr Afon" (The Leaflet on the River), and is contained in John Owen's Gems of Welsh Melody, second series. A poem of that title can be found online at Google Books (click), though I can't verify this is for the same song or tune. I haven't found a score, nor do I yet know where the work appears in How Green Was My Valley.


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 12 May 13 - 09:50 PM

Belated message for Louise re: A Time for Singing

I heard from John Morris's son, Evan, that the score for the show was being made available for community theater. Not sure where that stands just now. You can email me at julia@castlebay.net if you want
chers- Julia


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: GUEST,CoriSCapnSkip
Date: 19 Mar 15 - 03:26 AM

Hey, the theme titled "Love Denied" on the soundtrack of "How Green Was My Valley" was also used in the 1936 film "Beloved Enemy"! Anyone know more? Thanks!


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: GUEST,CoriSCapnSkip
Date: 19 Mar 15 - 03:32 AM

According to this, http://filmscoreclicktrack.com/2010/01/how-green-was-my-valley/ the theme is the traditional Irish tune mentioned above as "The Sixpence."


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: oggie
Date: 19 Mar 15 - 05:41 AM

This may be of interest http://www.kritzerland.com/aTime4singing.htm


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Subject: RE: How Green Was My Valley (songs)
From: GUEST,CoriSCapnSkip
Date: 20 Mar 15 - 01:09 AM

Wow, thanks! Incidentally, I listen to a LOT of traditional music, especially Irish, and those two movies are the ONLY places I have ever heard that particular tune!


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