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Songwriters

dsobelso@capaccess.org 22 Jun 99 - 02:24 AM
Sandy Paton 22 Jun 99 - 02:49 AM
Joe Offer 22 Jun 99 - 03:24 AM
Sandy Paton 22 Jun 99 - 04:21 AM
Joe Offer 22 Jun 99 - 04:56 AM
Banjer 22 Jun 99 - 05:02 AM
Bert 22 Jun 99 - 09:03 AM
WyoWoman 22 Jun 99 - 09:32 AM
David Sobelsohn 22 Jun 99 - 11:19 AM
Joe Offer 22 Jun 99 - 02:22 PM
catspaw49 22 Jun 99 - 02:55 PM
Joe Offer 22 Jun 99 - 03:00 PM
Night Owl 22 Jun 99 - 03:02 PM
Joe Offer 22 Jun 99 - 03:06 PM
catspaw49 22 Jun 99 - 03:19 PM
David Sobelsohn 22 Jun 99 - 04:07 PM
Joe Offer 22 Jun 99 - 04:27 PM
Night Owl 22 Jun 99 - 06:06 PM
GUEST,Talia Muse 04 Sep 13 - 11:51 PM
GUEST,Woodsie 05 Sep 13 - 03:11 AM
Elmore 05 Sep 13 - 11:10 AM
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Subject: Songwriters
From: dsobelso@capaccess.org
Date: 22 Jun 99 - 02:24 AM

Can someone help me identify the songwriters of the following songs: "Great Silkie," "Kerry Dancers," "Bernadette" (or is it "Song of Bernadette"?), "The Fallow Way," "Maid of Constant Sorrow," "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress," & "Walls (We Are Not Forgotten)"? Judy Collins sings them all. You can reply to dsobelso@capaccess.org. Thanks!


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Subject: RE: Songwriters
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 22 Jun 99 - 02:49 AM

The "Great Silkie" is a traditional ballad (see the DT) and the tune Judy sings was written by James Waters and the copyright is held by Folk-Legacy Records, Inc., Sharon, CT 06069. "Man of Constant Sorrow" is also a traditional song that has been found in many versions and often recorded. I suspect "Maid" is simply a gender revision for a female vocalist; it's been many years since I heard Judy sing it. On the other hand, "Girl of Constant Sorrow" is a complete rewrite by Sarah Ogan Gunning, half-sister to Aunt Molly Jackson, both strong Appalachian women and veterans of the miners' struggles to organize in the coal fields of Kentucky. The copyright for Mrs. Gunning's song is also held by Folk-Legacy.

I can't help you with the others, I'm afraid.

Sandy


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Subject: Judy Collins songs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Jun 99 - 03:24 AM

Hello -
"The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress" was written by Jimmy Webb in 1974, copyright held by White Oak Songs (ASCAP).
"Fallow Way" was by Judy Collins, copyright 1997 by the Wildflowers Company.
"We Are Not Forgotten (Walls)" - Words by Judy Collins & Louis Nelson - Music by Judy Collins; copyright: The Wildflowers Company 1995
Can't help with the "Kerry Dancers" song. I think it's traditional, but can't be sure without hearing some of the lyrics.


Click here and here for copyright information on some other Judy Collins recordings, but not the ones you're looking for. You may also want to check the Judy Collins Website.

I have to think about "Bernadette." Leonard Cohen and Jennifer Warnes wrote a piece called "Song of Bernadette" and Jennifer Warnes recorded it ("Famous Blue Raincoat" CD, now out of print), and Bette Midler has it on her "Bathhouse Betty" CD (listen here). Don't recall a Judy Collins recording.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Songwriters
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 22 Jun 99 - 04:21 AM

Joe, you are really a whiz! We're fortunate to have you here.

Sandy


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Subject: RE: Songwriters
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Jun 99 - 04:56 AM

Ah, Sandy, it's nice to be home where I can do stuff like this. I got busted three times at the Denver library. every time I tried to post a message, a librarian in horn-rimmed glasses would swoop down me and rap my knuckles with a ruler. The last time I tried it, it was an armed security guard who stopped me. After that, I figured I'd better quit trying.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Songwriters
From: Banjer
Date: 22 Jun 99 - 05:02 AM

Hi, Joe! Good to see you active on the Cat once again! It gives a felling feeling of confidence, knowing that any mistakes we make will be dealt with and corrected post haste. Hope you're home to stay for a while!
Spelling corrections by Joe Offer®
(grin)


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Subject: RE: Songwriters
From: Bert
Date: 22 Jun 99 - 09:03 AM

Perhaps he MEANT 'felling' Joe.

Bert.


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Subject: RE: Songwriters
From: WyoWoman
Date: 22 Jun 99 - 09:32 AM

I have the sheet music to "Song of Bernadette," if that interests you and if that's the one of which you speak. I hard it on the "Famous Blue Raincoat" CD Joe mentioned -- which, by the way, is one of my favorites. And I've loaned the tape to someone who kept it. Now that I've tried to find a CD, it no longer exists in the world, apparently.

Any idea for locating "out-of-print" CDs?

KC


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Subject: RE: Songwriters
From: David Sobelsohn
Date: 22 Jun 99 - 11:19 AM

Thanks, everyone! You're all so knowledgeable. I'm a newbie here, so I have a couple questions about Sandy's post: (1) What's "DT"? (2) Are the lyrics, then, what's traditional about the version of "Great Silkie" sung by Judy Collins? Also 2 Judy Collins title questions (about her own songs): (1) Is "Walls" inside or outside the parenthetical? I have the title both ways. (2) Is the first song she wrote "Since You Asked" or "Since You've Asked"? Thanks again!!


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Subject: Judy Collins recordings
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Jun 99 - 02:22 PM

Hi, David -
Ah, so many questions.
  • The Judy Collins website I linked to is her own, so the information should be accurate.
  • "We Are Not Forgotten (Walls)" is the title, as she lists it on her site.
  • The basic story and lyrics of "Silkie" are what's traditional - James Waters wrote the tune and probably adapted the lyrics at least slightly. Sandy Paton (above) and his wife Caroline are the humans behind Folk-Legacy Records, so you pretty-much got the word from the horse's mouth on that song. We'll have to wait and see if he likes being referred to as a horse...
  • On her Wildflowers album, the song is titled "Since You Asked."

  • And first, but listed last, the DT is the Digital Tradition, our database of some 7,500 folk songs. It's searchable from the upper-right corner of this page and most of the pages you'll see here at the Mudcat Cafe, host and home of the Digital Tradition.


  • I did find a fragment of a song called "The Kerry Dance," published by J.L. Molloy in 1879. The source I have says the first eight bars of the tune are virtually identical to a song called "The Cuckoo," published by Miss Margaret Casson in about 1790. The lyrics start:
    O the Days of the Kerry dancing,
    O the ring of the piper's tune!
    I'm pretty sure that's the song you're talking about. If you'd like the rest, start a new thread with the song title in the title of the thread. I couldn't find the rest of the song myself, although I wouldn't be surprised if it's already here somewhere. Yup - Click here.
    Songs, especially folk songs, tend to be known by many titles and to have many variations of lyrics. To make a song my own so I can sing it well, I must at least subtly adapt the song to my own style. In this "folk process" of changes made by many performers, a song takes on a life of its own and often becomes something much greater than the original. Our modern system of publishing and royalties and copyrights takes away from that process somewhat, but nothing can really kill the folk process. A good song will continue to change and grow, as long as it is loved and sung.
    -Joe Offer-


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    Subject: RE: Songwriters
    From: catspaw49
    Date: 22 Jun 99 - 02:55 PM

    Well David, you may be a newbie, but you have gotten the "Joe Offer Search and Answer" at it's finest. Joe, a professional snoop by trade, can access data and respond quicker than anyone here at the 'Cat. He is indeed amazing and his computer skills are really excellent too. Actually, to the point that until we saw a picture or met him, some of us believed he wasn't real!!!

    David, welcome to Mudcat, it's a great place. You'll enjoy the wisdom and knowledge of lots of wonderful folk (I ain't one of them--don't know diddly squat) including our resident "Folk Fogey," Sandy Paton. And you'll make some friends too!!!

    Now here's a question for you to ask Joe and you can see how fast he responds. In your next post, ask why he is sometimes called "Square Root Joe?"

    catspaw


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    Subject: Square Root
    From: Joe Offer
    Date: 22 Jun 99 - 03:00 PM

    Joe will be very slow to answer that one, catspaw. He doesn't really understand it....
    They didn't teach him about that in the seminary.


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    Subject: RE: Songwriters
    From: Night Owl
    Date: 22 Jun 99 - 03:02 PM

    Joe...is that a new record response time???


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    Subject: RE: Songwriters
    From: Joe Offer
    Date: 22 Jun 99 - 03:06 PM

    Nope, Night Owl, my record response is three minutes, with a clickable link. You actually beat me, but you're disqualified because you didn't post a link.
    -Joe Offer-


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    Subject: RE: Songwriters
    From: catspaw49
    Date: 22 Jun 99 - 03:19 PM

    Alright, so this ain't a record, but it does have a blue clicky link thing that probably doesn't work.

    catspaw


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    Subject: RE: Songwriters
    From: David Sobelsohn
    Date: 22 Jun 99 - 04:07 PM

    Can someone direct me to the lyrics for Judy Collins's song "The Blizzard"?


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    Subject: RE: Songwriters
    From: Joe Offer
    Date: 22 Jun 99 - 04:27 PM

    Hi, David - it's on that Judy Collins Website I linked to, but lyrics are under "for the fans," which makes them a bit hard to find. Click here to get there quick.
    -Joe Offer-
    Oh, and catspaw - go here.


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    Subject: RE: Songwriters
    From: Night Owl
    Date: 22 Jun 99 - 06:06 PM

    I can't think of anyone I'd rather see "on top"....although I'm wondering if you enjoy being "beaten without a link.."??? Seems out of character. :o) (Going back to my HTML corner)


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    Subject: RE: Songwriters
    From: GUEST,Talia Muse
    Date: 04 Sep 13 - 11:51 PM

    Hello Everyone :-) Does anyone know how to find the sheet music for We Are Not Forgotten (Walls)? and/or Wings of Angels? Thanks so much!


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    Subject: RE: Songwriters
    From: GUEST,Woodsie
    Date: 05 Sep 13 - 03:11 AM

    "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" was originally the title of a Sci-Fi book by Robert Heinlein


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    Subject: RE: Songwriters
    From: Elmore
    Date: 05 Sep 13 - 11:10 AM

    Way back in 1999 on this thread there was a mention of Jennifer Warnes' album, "Famous Blue Raincoat" as being out of print. A few years ago it was re-released with a couple of songs added. I really enjoy it. Of course in the last few years I've come to be interested in anything associated with Leonard Cohen


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