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Tech: Microsoft's latest scheme

Bill D 30 Dec 08 - 11:56 AM
Uncle_DaveO 30 Dec 08 - 12:58 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 30 Dec 08 - 01:31 PM
JohnInKansas 30 Dec 08 - 01:32 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 30 Dec 08 - 01:48 PM
Artful Codger 30 Dec 08 - 03:06 PM
kendall 30 Dec 08 - 04:52 PM
Jack Campin 30 Dec 08 - 05:02 PM
Andrez 30 Dec 08 - 05:04 PM
JohnInKansas 30 Dec 08 - 06:23 PM
treewind 30 Dec 08 - 06:31 PM
Bill D 30 Dec 08 - 08:02 PM
terrier 30 Dec 08 - 08:19 PM
dwditty 30 Dec 08 - 08:41 PM
Chris Maltby 30 Dec 08 - 09:50 PM
Chris Maltby 30 Dec 08 - 09:55 PM
terrier 31 Dec 08 - 08:48 AM
Uncle_DaveO 31 Dec 08 - 12:22 PM
john f weldon 31 Dec 08 - 12:34 PM
Bill D 31 Dec 08 - 01:40 PM
Uncle_DaveO 31 Dec 08 - 05:26 PM
Geoff the Duck 31 Dec 08 - 09:38 PM
EBarnacle 31 Dec 08 - 11:05 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 01 Jan 09 - 05:37 AM
treewind 01 Jan 09 - 08:30 AM
VirginiaTam 01 Jan 09 - 11:03 AM
Bill D 10 Jan 09 - 11:34 AM
Bill D 10 Jan 09 - 02:13 PM
GUEST,Bill D 10 Jan 09 - 02:19 PM
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Subject: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 11:56 AM

They are at it again!

"December 29, 2008 (Computerworld) Microsoft Corp. last week applied for a patent that spells out a "pay as you go" concept under which users would be charged for both the software they run and the computing horsepower they use."



more here


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 12:58 PM

Micro$oft proposes this, and reflexively I oppose it because of that sponsorship, if nothing else.

A few observations here:

I have two computers, one connected on line and one permanently offline. This scheme by Micro$oft would require a computer to be connected to the web, which I don't intend to do.

This scheme (and I use the term advisedly) is clearly intended to put Micro$oft in the driver's seat, since they would, as the sponsor, patentee, initial provider of software, and licensor of the system, be able (as well as eager) to design and provide it so as to make themselves the default provider. Just as with DOS and Windoze, they can be relied on to design things to make access and use of the system awkward, expensive, and even prohibitive to other software providers and/or manufacturers.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 01:31 PM

I also don't like that it means they install a piece of snoopware that would "monitor the machine to track things such as disk storage space, processor cores and memory used, then bill the user for what was consumed during a set period".

In other words, spy on you in a manner akin to phone-tapping (isn't that supposed to be illegal?) as well as charging you for using your own computer. And how are you going to pay for it? They'll have to hold your credit card details. That way they really have you by the short & curlies - what happens if you don't meet a payment? (What happens if you don't have a credit card?)

It's also a dandy way to make your perfectly functional computer obsolete if you don't hop to it and buy their latest bloatware soon enough. It's ransom, pure and simple. And whatever became of a citizen's right to privacy?

If I want to hire a computer, I'll hire one. When I buy outright I don't expect to also be held to monthly or quarterly payments.   

Didn't Bill Gates move away from the leadership position to "develop projects"? Is this latest brainchild what he's doing instead?

How much control over us is this mega-corporation going to be allowed to seize?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 01:32 PM

This may, or may not tie in with plans by several ISPs to provide "metered connections" so that you pay more for more bandwidth and for large downloads, or it may be more directly related to the Microsoft "cloud computing" concept in which you would never have a program on you're own computer - you'd just connect to the program on a server (and pay the "rent" for the program use) when you wanted to do something.

Since, aside from a few security improvements, recent Microsoft output makes you computer look like a cheap pin-ball machine but doesn't actually work, at the user interface, as well as the older stuff, they really do need to do something about making junk more profitable. (...?)

Patents can be misleading though. If the patent "claim" omits something that a new "art" might do, then that use isn't patented; so it's the general rule that a filing claims far-reaching things that aren't what the applicant really intends to do and wants to protect. This does look like a lot of other stuff that Mickey's been posturing about recently though.

It's just "pay per view" copied from the cable guys and extended to more objectionable limits, so far as the first-read indicates.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 01:48 PM

They're calling it The Metered Pay-As-You-Go Computing Experience, as though we're supposed to think it's some luxury lifestyle choice. Does it come with its own spa?

And in the small print:

For consumers, Microsoft said, the advantage of such a model would be a lower price at the outset for a powerful PC. Computer makers would gain the ability to standardize on higher-end systems, it added. But the company admitted that the overall cost to the user might be higher than for a standard PC purchase.

"Might"???   And that's without the inevitable decision to put the rent up, which sooner or later you know they'll do.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: Artful Codger
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 03:06 PM

The use of patents is like copyrights--one doesn't risk challenging the dubious parts because one can't afford the battery of lawyers to contest them, and courts are highly inconsistent in their rulings (not to mention often being in the political pockets of Microsoft.)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: kendall
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 04:52 PM

But people, this is America! It's the sort of entrepeneurship (is there such a word?) that made America great.

Now, the thing that made America really great is, Freedom to choose. Before I would pay tribute to these modern day Barbary Pirates, I would give this tyrannical beast the "deep six".
Or, I could always dump it on the door step of one of my Senators who failed to protect me from these greedy pillocks!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 05:02 PM

There is a precedent that suggest they can get away with it.

Back in the 1980s, both DEC and ICL sold "slugged" computers. When you bought a VAX 750 or one of ICL's 3900-series machines, you could spend more for higher performance. The higher performance machine was the same hardware with a microcode delay turned off. You could upgrade by getting an engineer in - for the ICL machines the procedure first involved locking all the doors of the machine room so the sysadmins couldn't see what the engineer was doing. He would then take the machine systematically apart, locate a tiny unlabelled switch in the least accessible part of the box, flip it and put the machine back together again.

DEC and ICL both got away with that for years.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: Andrez
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 05:04 PM

Hmmmmm, yes but didnt some American say that no one ever lost money underestimating the tastes of the American public?

There is bound to be some schmuck out there who thinks Microsoft is offering a good deal. Multiply that by a few million schmucks (I am am reliably informed that there are at least that many in the US alone) and Gates and Co will be winners yet again.

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 06:23 PM

If this patent is intended for use with the "cloud computing" concept, it perhaps fits together nicely with the published information that every Vista distribution disk contains all of the code for all of the versions. When you buy the package, you get the "unlock" number for the version on the package, but if/when you want to, you can contact Microsoft and they'll give you (after you pay them for it) the unlock number for the "better" version you want.

If implemented to take advantage of this capability, you could run Vista Home for internet browsing, Vista Business for your spreadsheets, and Vista Multimedia for your games, and "only" pay for the version you actually use - for the time that you're actually using that version.

Of course, you would have to pay for the appropriate version again each time you use it ... and again the next time you use it, and ...

The privacy issue is not obviously much different than the classic telephone use, where the 'phone company has a list of every number you call and how long you talked, and bills you by the minute (always rounding up on the minutes, of course). For the archaic "land-line" phones records of local calls were not ordinarily kept, if they were in a local "free call" area; but for cell phones every call is logged, even if local and long-distance are charged the same per minute.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: treewind
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 06:31 PM

There's always the free software option.
It's really easy now.
Totally legal and what you are doing with it is, in all senses of the phrase, none of Microsoft's business.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 08:02 PM

Oh, I'm learning slowly about that treewind! I have already burned a CD and a DVD of Knoppix, and have downloaded Ubuntu to experiment with... If I feel I NEED to divorce from Windoze, I need to have a feel for it....


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: terrier
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 08:19 PM

I am at the moment trying to load Ubunto on to my PC, if I could get it to work, I would happily use it. At least with Microshaft, you load it and it works. The freebies still have a long way to go, but if the big boys go down this road, surely they will find a lot of doors shut in their face. They still can't control all the software houses who write programmes for windows and without them Microshaft would be out in the cold.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: dwditty
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 08:41 PM

I have sold commercial IBM servers and mainframes for 30 years. Tiered pricing has been around most of that time - the more powerful the system, the higher the software cost, even though it is exactly the same software as that used on smaller systems. The justification has always been to equate the cost to the degree of benefit derived from the use of the computer. Applications are either tiered (tied to the the power of the processor, number of processors, or number of users, etc.). Unfortunately, I don't see any way of preventing this model from finding its way to the PC market. If Gates did nothing else, he recognized the value of millions and millions of people paying a relatively low price for a product. And so it goes....


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: Chris Maltby
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 09:50 PM

Does anyone still need a reason not to seriously consider Linux on the PC? Talk about saving on TCO (total cost of ownership)...

Nice review of latest Ununtu, SuSE and Fedora releases here:
http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/271855/hands-_linux_new_versions_ubuntu_


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: Chris Maltby
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 09:55 PM

Terrier's experience isn't anything like mine - it's Ubuntu that just works, while Microsloth takes hours and hours and countless downloads of drivers and hundreds of pointless reboots. The system vendors hide all this for you when you get a new PC - but try re-installing if you don't believe me.

Anyway, you can use the Ubuntu CD to install Linux in a dual-boot setup for those who still need the Windoze-only apps from time to time.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: terrier
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 08:48 AM

I think my problem may just be my PC, Ubunto just won't install correctly. I've downloaded the programme twice and burnt it to CD in case the first one was faulty. As I get to the end of the install, a message comes up that it has not installed correctly. Windoze instals fine. If anyone can suggest anything (sensible) it would be apreciated. I'm using a 1.2 gig PC with 256m ram.loading it onto a 40mb hard drive. (Sorry if this is thread drift)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 12:22 PM

Someone enlighten me, please.

I'd be interested in Linux, I think, IF I can run the programs I presently run. At least three of my important, strategic programs are either unique in their field or could be replaced only at unacceptable cost, if indeed they are available at all for Linux.

I'd love to leave Micro$oft behind, but not if I have to replace the heavy lifters among my software.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: john f weldon
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 12:34 PM

I have managed to avoid using anything Microsofty for decades, despite intensive hi-end computer use; in the past, with Atari, and later Macintosh.

If Microcrap comes up with this scheme and Apple follows, I can only hope that clever entrepreneurs will come up with a new line of machines with a novel concept: buy the machine and the software you need and do whatever the hell you want with it for as long as you want with no one watching!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 01:40 PM

Dave...Linux has many 'standard' programs comparable to Windows, but does NOT have all the little specialty things.

About the only way to have the best of both worlds is to have a 'dual-boot' system, with both Windows & Linux installed, and fire up Windows ONLY when you need those special programs.

I am considering that at some point....which is why I am downloading Linux versions that can be put on a single CD or DVD and run from there. It isn't terribly complicated to do, but there are SO many options available and getting around in Linux has a learning curve.... still, it may be worth it.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 05:26 PM

Bill D., thanks for the input. But if all I can look for from Linux is "standard programs comparable to Windows", then I'm out of luck unless the providers of my major programs provide them in Linux-based format, which I exceedingly doubt is going to happen. I'm confident that it would not be economic for them to do so.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 09:38 PM

Uncle Dave - it sounds as if Microsoft's scheme will not allow you to use the programmes you already have, no matter how strategic they might be.e
Their whole idea is "Keep charging more and more money no matter how old or obsolete your computer and it's software becomes".
For those looking at Linux there was some good info and advice given to me in this thread - Linux in 2008.
I switch between different Operating Systems depending on what I need to do, but in many situations, Linux is not much different from Windows but FREE. In some cases what it does is BETTER. In some cases there isn't a programme doing the equivalent to your windoze programme, so you are still stuck with microsoft
That said, some Mudcat regulars might be able to point you in directions I am not clued-up on.

Quack
GtD.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: EBarnacle
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 11:05 PM

There is nothing new in this scheme. Edison tried to control the then nascent movie industry by patenting "his" camera. Fortunately, there were enough pirates that his system was totally subverted and we got a somewhat more liberated system. People will get what they can tolerate. If enough people go over to LINUX or other freeware, be sure that Gates and other entrepreneurs will have to change their plans.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 05:37 AM

Does anyone happen to know how - or if - Sibelius music notation works in Linux?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: treewind
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 08:30 AM

I use ABC for music on linux - with abcm2ps, ghostview and an editor that does syntax highlighting for ABC (many do) and the ABC plux extension for multi-part scores it's pretty powerful.

You can't runs Sibelius directly on Linux - but it seems you can run Sibelius under WINE which is a program that lets Windows programs work on linux with varying (quite good now) degrees of success.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 11:03 AM

Typical asshat Gates and Co.

As soon as we retire and do not need to bring Microshit tied work home, we will be switching to Linux OS and probably Open Office. It is clean simple to use and meets personal word processing / spreadsheet needs.

Actually I am in the market for a new laptop bout April time. Think I will get a Mac and only use this Dell from Hell when I need to do job work at home.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 11:34 AM

It works! I am reading & posting this using Firefox browser on a Mandriva Linux CD.

I burned a Mandriva CD using Windows, then put it back in and rebooted my computer and chose "Boot from CD" at the startup screen. LO!

Now, this is better than the Knoppix CD I tried earlier, I think...the menus just 'feel' easier. It still takes some messing, 'cause Linux doesn't name folders in quite the same way as Windows, so getting around is 'different', but it sure seems ok!

(Of course, I can't do certain settings, as I can't write anything more to this CD. I can change DATA...pictures & such .... in my files, but can't save cookies for Mudcat..etc..I'd have to log in each time.)

Anyway, as I said above, I am learning what works for the day when Bill Gates just gets too intrusive for my peace of mind...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 02:13 PM

(moved to another computer...still in Mandriva)

I'm impressed with it.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Micro$oft's latest scheme
From: GUEST,Bill D
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 02:19 PM

Moved from Firefox browser to 'Konqueror' browser to check features.


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