Why no OBE for Nic Jones?

Subject: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: cptsnapper
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 11:36 AM

I've no idea how one goes about it but considering his influence I can't help thinking that Nic's name should be put forward for an honour.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 01:05 PM

I agree.and one of those lovely gold badges,from the EFDSS.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 01:12 PM

See
http://www.honours.gov.uk/nominate.aspx

This explains how ordinary members of the public can nominate people for an honour. I know it works.

But I would not recommend a big public campaign with masses of signatures. That failed to work for Bob Copper and his successfulnomination came a different route, I understand.

So, pick a few well known individuals and get them to endorse the nomination.

Derek Schofield

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: GUEST,Simon
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 01:14 PM

Maybe because no-one has nominated him. You can do it
here

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: Weasel
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 01:17 PM

The one time I have been involved in a nomination I was one of about six people invited to write a recommendation. All the recommendations were collected in by the proposer who then send them to the relevant government office.

Cheers.

(The nomination was successful by the way).

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 01:36 PM

Why was Martin Carthy only awarded an MBE, the lowest honour now available?

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 01:37 PM

The above should probably have gone on the John Martyn OBE thread - sorry about that!

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: GUEST,Tommy
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 01:46 PM

Maybe he didn't get his Royal Blue Peter badge because he refused.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: open mike
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 02:42 PM

what is OBE or MBE and who is Nic Jones...
obviously seperated by a pond here...

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 03:12 PM

Who is Nic Jones? The mind boggles...................

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 03:15 PM

order of the british empire, memberof the british empire.
nic jones was a fine singer and very influential guitarist,who was injured in a car crash in the mid eighties.
google nic jones

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: Colin Randall
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 04:50 PM

It is probably unfair to berate an American for not knowing of Nic Jones. That is one of the odd things about Mudcat which I find strangely endearing: the fact that it is sometimes the host for two separate debates within the same thread.

Although I am not a great fan of the honours system, Nic strikes me as an absolutely classic example of someone who deserves recognition. I agree with the contribution from Weasel about the bestw ay of giving him a chance of getting it.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: Sugwash
Date: 31 Dec 08 - 07:56 PM

Well I'll always honour him, don't care if the Government or monarchy ignore him, a musical genius, fabulous performer and a marvellous human to boot.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 05:39 AM

Who is Nic Jones? There are many who feel that he was the most talented product of the British folk revival.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: GUEST,Norman (locked up, locked down, locked out)
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 06:41 AM

Maybe Nic Jones does not want to be honoured? The person nominated has to be prepared to accept the award, and if he is of the school of political / Republican thought that rejects such an award, then that should be accepted.

Of course, I do not know if that is the case or not, but we should not make an automatic assumption that everybody is enamoured with the honours system. Hamish Henderson rejected the honour (before it was awarded). We know, because he said so. As did writers Alan Bennett and Benjamin Zephaniah. Many others might similarly reject the nomination without making a statement about it.

I am not here, by the way, to start another argument about the honours system, but wish to point out a so-far unexamined aspect.

Norman
CDM

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 07:01 AM

Well said, Tommy. Some people do reject honours and the whole silly system which gives a knighthood to the likes of Elton John and a chap who rides a bike, albeit a nice guy! They hardly worked selflessly and for the common good. It is interesting to note that in a recent vote Brunel was voted England's top chap and he never received a knighthood, so this hardly diminished his fame or achievements. Micheal Faraday - England's second most famous scientist - rejected a knighthood. And, of course, the world's most famous scientist was never part of the pigs-around-the-trough culture and everyone can name him and recognise even a cartoon of his face.
Doc John

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 07:23 AM

Here's something: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3338583.stm

Doc John

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: Weasel
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 07:24 AM

I think we need to recognise that on the honours list there are inevitably going to those who deserve it and those who do not.

The lady for whom I wrote a recommendation would never have dreamed that she would be honoured - she worked selflessly for very little personal reward other than the sheer pleasure of helping other people, people who, at the time, could have been of no possible use to her. I was happy to write in support of her nomination.

On the other hand, a chap I worked with received a similar award for "services to music" - huh! - services to his pocket more like. I know that he would not open the clasps on his instrument case for less than £100 (and this was a long time ago). Whatever "service" he gave to the community he was handsomely paid for.

I know of another case where the directors of a company clubbed together to nominate each other over a period of years with the idea that they would all have an honour which would grace their company notepaper.

The injustice of these cases however cannot diminish the quiet joy of the lady in the first case. If nothing else it told her that her work was appreciated in a way that was far more powerful than simply telling her so.

I think we all have the sense to see things for what they really are and can applaud when applause is appropriate.

Sorry if this is drifting off topic.

Cheers

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 07:24 AM

Errrmmm .... Doc, would you care to enlighten us as to who YOU think the world's most famous scientist was ... I can't for the life of me think who you mean, although I have no doubt that I'd probably recognise the person's name ... I can think of quite a few who would qualify for the title,one at least being female, since there isn't really an absolute answer to the question.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 07:58 AM

And apologies - I realise that that last post is strictly speaking off topic. Speaking of which, I think the question of the original poster has by now been answered ... ie somebody needs to do the legwork for it (details on the website quoted) and submit the proposal, and then, at the very end of the day, if it is sanctioned by the committee etc who sift the applications, and make the decisions, it is up to the individual themselves to say yes or no to acceptance of the award. The process can, incidentally, take a year or so to go through, so results are not known instantaneously, and nor are they communicated to the individual who made the original nomination.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: Weasel
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 08:05 AM

Nor does the recipient know who proposed/supported him

Cheers

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: freda underhill
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 08:44 AM

who is Nic Jones?

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: GUEST,Matt in California
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 11:01 PM

Nic was a fine, fine singer. Where I grew up (east coast, US), we had an excellent record store, so I got his Penguin Eggs recording early on.   It was an eye-opening record.   Very few other Americans of my acquaintance know of him, though, which is very unfortunate.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: open mike
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 11:05 PM

that link i a dud
try this
MySpace URL:
        
http://www.myspace.com/planxtyjones

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 03:27 AM

The late Hamish Henderson rejected an honour from the Thatcher government, good man.

Brian McNiell wrote a tune in honour of it, ' Hamish Hendersons Refusal '

eric

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 03:48 AM

Jeannie Robertson was reputed to have said that she was honoured by the same people who wouldn't serve her in the local shops because she was a Traveller - sums it all up really!
Whether Nic Jones deserves to be honoured (matter of opinion-far greater contributors to our music IMO), the best way to 'honour' such people would be to recognise the importance of their music - not tea and cucumber butties with the queen.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 05:30 AM

Marion Blythman, wife of Morris Blythman, who between them were resposible for the Scottish Folk revival along with Hamish henderson in the 50s and 60s, also refused an 'honour'. Morris was dead by then but he would most certainly would have refused also (if offered!). He wrote a funny song about the honours system but I can only remember the beginning 'There's MBEs and OBEs and NBGs ana' . NBG stands for No Bloody Good.
It's ironic that a few of these young revival singers who learned so much at the Blythman's house are now the recipients of MBEs. He must be birlin' in his grave ..... but laughing.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 08:59 AM

well as I have stated,if I was offered it I would refuse,I have no wish to be part of the British Empire.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 11:33 AM

I've already expressed my opinion on these absurd medals named after a non-existant empire and tinged with hypocrisy, royalty and politics. However wouldn't it be be more relevant if Nic Jones (and others) were given a honourary degree in music from a university; he lives in York which has an active music department, I believe.
Doc John
PS not a degree in engineering like Frank Sinatra; that's almost as daft as these silly gongs.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 12:00 PM

Plymouth or Exeter might be a bit handier, these days.
(Whichever has the best pool table).

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 12:05 PM

To be fair to Openmike those were my first words when I saw the thread too.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 12:42 PM

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: Diane Easby - PM
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 12:00 PM

Plymouth or Exeter might be a bit handier, these days.
(Whichever has the best pool table).
has nic moved to Plymouth then?

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: BB
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 02:05 PM

No, he has more sense than to have moved to the, for this part of the country, 'big' city! He lives in a small village not too far away from it though.

Barbara

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: goatfell
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 11:30 AM

who is he?

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: johnadams
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 12:41 PM

There's a link to his site higher up the thread but as it's not fully functional, the best illustration is to go to Mollie Music

Alternatively, if you can, go to iTunes and search on Nic Jones. You can hear a few bars of many of the songs that we laud him for.

There's also a Wikipedia entry.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 12:43 PM

Nic Jones is deserving of a national recognition for his excellent contribution to the interpretation of our folk music.
       As mooted in "The Daily Telegraph" today, so should Ken Dodd be rewarded for a lifetime of comedy entertainment. He may have crossed the taxman (how many other recipients could we count)but he is head and shoulders above many of todays "alternative to comedy" acts and can still pull them in.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 02:17 PM

Unless it's a big international star (and maybe even then), I find it so annoying and unnecessarily unpleasant when people on here (or anywhere) berate/sneer at someone for not having heard of a certain celebrity. This happened to me on one of the Odetta threads. (Odetta isn't big in the UK, and that isn't really my kind of music. Not sure I'd call it folk either...)

We all move in different circles with different interests, so it's not so surprising that for all of us, there are many musicians/singers we don't know.

One of the things I love about this forum is how many people share so generously their knowledge/info on musicians/singers via links etc. Nic Jones is one of those people on my list to check out, and I've learnt a lot just from reading this thread, so thanks.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 03:59 PM

Nominations from "the public" tend to be very oversubscribed. Other nominations are the more successful route.

However, they then fall into categories, and music is one of them. I have no idea where the nominations for music are drawn up and submitted, and assume there must be more than one.

I used to hold public office in healthcare, (NHS Chairman) and had the forms each year. I did nominate a couple of members of staff, volunteer etc., although I am not at liberty to say whether any were successful or not. I got a gong through the same route for services to healthcare, presumably nominated by our regional Chairman, but I can't say for sure. I mention this as the forms are quite specific about the category. I couldn't nominate a singer in the healthcare section and vice versa.

I fully agree that Nic has brought pleasure to many people over the years, remains popular 27 years after his accident, is not outspoken and is a model artiste in every way. (Look him up on utube, and see how many clips there are of people showing his style and how to emulate it.)

He is an inspiration to us all, did things with guitar (and fiddle) that I can only dream of, and if there is any justice in this world, (the honours system is not built on justice mind, I am embarrassed about mine when you look at the people who got one the same time,) the honours system will eventually recognise on behalf of the establishment the unique talent and shear enjoyment we know as Nic Jones.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 03:57 AM

MBE - Many Buggers' Efforts
OBE - Other Buggers' Efforts
CBE - Clever Buggers' Efforts

CMG - Call me God
KCMG - Keep Calling Me God
GCMG - God Calls Me God

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 04:29 AM

One of the things I love about this forum . . .

It's just a forum. Useful when it works: somebody gives information and the rest say 'Oh, OK'.

What I absolutely hate about it are the wilfully ignorant who feign lack of awareness of an artist / musical venture. What they are attempting to convey is that something or other that they happen to like is better. No. it isn't. How can anyone else actually judge anyway when there's never a vestige of musical assessment, comparison or criticism nor even of what they are actually talking about?

It's a fair bet that it is almost never the case that the person who makes this sort of comment is genuinely in the dark. Otherwise, they'd have used a search engine before even opening the thread (there's enough information about Nic Jones on this site alone). Wouldn't they?

To paraphrase Dave Hunt, what you don't know, bloody well find out.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 09:16 AM

I was on a bus in Plymouth once in the New Year and overheard the following conversation....

"yeah well he got an OBE you know"
"wassat then?"
"Some kind of a medal they give out to people what done well - dunno what it stands for"
"Old Big 'Ead I expect"

Cheers

Sarah

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: Derby Ram
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 06:33 AM

A Knighthood would be more appropriate. Now that's recognition by your country and that's what Martin Carthy and Shirley Collins should have been offered. But I support the notion of subsequent refusal - seeing as just being offered it in the first place records the importance of an individual in society. Who needs the ceremony or actual bling or tag bit anyway?

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: pavane
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 06:37 AM

Perhaps the fact that release of much of his (finest, IMHO) work has been blocked for many years (See Bulmer threads) would account for him being far less well known than he deserves, particularly outside the UK.

His own web site also gives a list of many other people's albums to which he contributed in the 1970s and early 80s, before his accident.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 08:48 AM

Much as I respect John Martyn, Martin Carthy and Nic Jones, what is the point of an MBE, OBE or whatever? We don't have an empire; we should be embarrassed about what we did in the name of 'empire, queen and country'. Awards from peers and public are fine but the honours sytem and the royal wastrels who prop it up, should be consigned to history.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 07:15 AM

I do agree with the leveller, in that there is no empire etc. However,

It is the traditional British system for acknowledging people who make the world a better place. If we didn't have this type, we would have another.

I was once in a conversation in New Delhi with colleagues, one of whom said the British are still clinging onto colonial dreams. Rubbish, I retorted, most younger people are uncomfortable with how our national fortune was made many years ago. Another colleague then pointed out my honour, (thanks pal) and that I was an officer of the British Empire.

Makes you think..

Whatever honour system we have, Nic is deserving of one.

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 11:09 AM

Did anybody notice all the banjo players who were awarded gongs this time around???

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: pavane
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 12:12 PM

Is that to replace their banjos? More musical...

Subject: RE: Why no OBE for Nic Jones?
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 12:49 PM

Am I right in thinking that Shakespeare got little or no recognition of his achievements during his lifetime?