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BS: Israel Moves in.

Folkiedave 03 Jan 09 - 03:05 PM
bobad 03 Jan 09 - 03:13 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 03 Jan 09 - 03:17 PM
GUEST,lox 03 Jan 09 - 04:50 PM
Leadfingers 03 Jan 09 - 05:00 PM
John MacKenzie 03 Jan 09 - 05:20 PM
Little Hawk 03 Jan 09 - 05:28 PM
GUEST,lox 03 Jan 09 - 05:34 PM
Linda Kelly 03 Jan 09 - 05:56 PM
MarkS 03 Jan 09 - 06:00 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 Jan 09 - 06:00 PM
Lox 03 Jan 09 - 06:05 PM
gnu 03 Jan 09 - 06:09 PM
katlaughing 03 Jan 09 - 06:14 PM
skarpi 03 Jan 09 - 06:14 PM
GUEST,lox 03 Jan 09 - 06:18 PM
pdq 03 Jan 09 - 06:19 PM
gnu 03 Jan 09 - 06:45 PM
GUEST,Alan 03 Jan 09 - 07:04 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 03 Jan 09 - 07:09 PM
GUEST,lox 03 Jan 09 - 07:11 PM
Folkiedave 03 Jan 09 - 07:15 PM
GUEST,lox 03 Jan 09 - 07:15 PM
kendall 03 Jan 09 - 08:02 PM
Ed T 03 Jan 09 - 08:05 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 Jan 09 - 08:26 PM
skarpi 03 Jan 09 - 08:29 PM
Richard Bridge 03 Jan 09 - 08:36 PM
artbrooks 03 Jan 09 - 09:05 PM
Riginslinger 03 Jan 09 - 09:20 PM
Sandy Mc Lean 04 Jan 09 - 12:54 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 04 Jan 09 - 01:06 AM
GUEST,Alan 04 Jan 09 - 04:35 AM
polaitaly 04 Jan 09 - 05:42 AM
GUEST,lox 04 Jan 09 - 06:08 AM
GUEST,lox 04 Jan 09 - 06:13 AM
SPB-Cooperator 04 Jan 09 - 06:39 AM
GUEST,Alan 04 Jan 09 - 06:41 AM
SPB-Cooperator 04 Jan 09 - 07:01 AM
Folkiedave 04 Jan 09 - 08:08 AM
GUEST,Alan 04 Jan 09 - 08:09 AM
SPB-Cooperator 04 Jan 09 - 08:29 AM
Richard Bridge 04 Jan 09 - 08:40 AM
VirginiaTam 04 Jan 09 - 08:46 AM
number 6 04 Jan 09 - 08:51 AM
number 6 04 Jan 09 - 08:52 AM
akenaton 04 Jan 09 - 08:58 AM
VirginiaTam 04 Jan 09 - 09:03 AM
number 6 04 Jan 09 - 09:07 AM
Riginslinger 04 Jan 09 - 10:19 AM

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Subject: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 03:05 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7809959.stm

Peacekeeping I suppose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: bobad
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 03:13 PM

"An Israeli military spokeswoman confirmed the incursion had begun and said the objective was "to destroy the Hamas terror infrastructure in the area of operations".

"We are going to take some of the launch areas used by Hamas," Maj Avital Leibovitch told reporters."


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 03:17 PM

Not peacekeeping, Folkiedave, as well you can surmise. Destroying Hamas...finally. Of course, another militant, terrorist group will take Hamas' place, until the Palestinian Arabs decide they really want peace.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 04:50 PM

"until the Palestinian Arabs decide they really want peace."

I don't pretend to have the answers to this dilemna, but I do recognize an inflammatory bigoted snipe when I read one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Leadfingers
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 05:00 PM

TOO many Arabs ONLY want Israel wiped off the map !!


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 05:20 PM

I think there is equal bigotry on both sides lox


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 05:28 PM

Oh, there is indeed. But the firepower and the ability to use it to destroy many people's lives and property is not so evenly distributed by any means.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 05:34 PM

There is - but on this website I respond to it when I read it expressed.

I don't infer bigotry by association with a viewpoint partially shared by a bigot.

If I did that I would have to accuse everyone on this site of being a bigot as every point of view has at some point been twisted by a bigot to justify their hatred.

So I'm not going to do that.

If I see a biggotted comment and am inclined to do so then I will point it out.

The one I referred to above contains no substance other than bigotry.

Why? because it generalizes about all arabs - rounds them up into an intellectual pen to justify their slaughter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 05:56 PM

2 things I genuinely don't understand -in the statements on the media we are told of thousands of rockets sent by Hammas into Israel and then we are given a figure of actual Palestnian casualties -I cannot understand why it is reported this way -surely if comparisons have been to be made then report casualtiy against casualty -how many Israelis have died in these rocket attacks -why aren't we told?? Secondly, where is the support of other Arab nations for the people of Palestine?

Regardless of who is right who is wrong who started it or any other viewpoint - this slaughter has to stop now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: MarkS
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 06:00 PM

Let us all pray for a quick end to hostilities and a peaceful resolution to the conflict.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 06:00 PM

So far, the Israelis are killing 100 Palestinians for every Israeli.
The BBC Canada does a pretty good job of reporting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Lox
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 06:05 PM

Linda - in answer to your question,

the BBC says 4.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: gnu
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 06:09 PM

Sorry to say this for the umpteeth time.... I know many of you are tired of me saying this...

The rich subjugate the poor.

Palestine... Iraq... Afghanistan... Pakistan... Korea... Sudan... Ivory Coast... Ukraine...

I KNOW I have "left out" some MAJOR trouble spots. But, why go on?

Europe is next with the gas. When they hurt... well... lock and load.

My guess is that nuclear war will warm things up a lot. Pakistan first?


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 06:14 PM

I used to be motivated to write killer op/ed pieces which were published whenever I read about something like this which made me angry. Now, I just shake my head and think of the folly of humankind and how stupid the whole thing is and, the fact that it is mostly women, mothers, who wind up the most hopeless with the most to protect while the military (i know there are women in it, too!) do their best to destroy everything. I don't give a damn what countries, what ethnicity, what religion. It is stupid and if I think too much about it, I will cry my heart out and do no good at all.

I will give thanks for peace and lend my will to that of the creator I believe in, but I will also recognise people's free will has a lot to do with it, so I will give thanks they are moved to peace, also. SO mote it be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: skarpi
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 06:14 PM

Is this the Beginning of the Middle east war ????
How will Iran come into this ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 06:18 PM

I fucking hope not!!!

But they are the stakes that these impotent fools need to get a rush these days I guess.

(Impotent not important)


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: pdq
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 06:19 PM

Iran is already in it.

Hamas and Hezbollah are nothing but extensions of Iran's Muslim extremist government and get their money and weapons from Iran.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: gnu
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 06:45 PM

Where did my last post go? This is at least six posts in a week that went gone.

Kat... "It is stupid and if I think too much about it, I will cry my heart out..."

Yup, it is to cry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 07:04 PM

Sixty years ago they asked the world to understand and cry for the injustice they suffered. Today they prove they are no better.

Why why has this nation above all other not learned putting people out of their homes and senseless killing of children serves no purpose.

They wonder why people dislike them. This is a sad start to another year of hell for these poor living on their own land.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 07:09 PM

You may not agree with me Lox, but my comment was not a bigoted snipe; it was an observation paraphrasing Golda Meir, "There will be peace when Palestinians love their children more than they hate Israelis" or words to close to that.

But what kind of analysis can one expect from one whose mantra is "Murder is Murder." The law distinguishes between degrees of killing, but Lox knows better.

Lox, as you don't know me, you cannot know that I have had friendly social and business relations with Palestinians in the US from the 1970s until I retired. Most were wonderful, nice, successful people. Most were Christians, but many were Muslim. It's too bad that those they left behind, especially their leadership after Israel left Gaza, did not choose to follow peaceful pursuits, rather than harass (and that is the mildest word I can use) Israel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 07:11 PM

John, I withdraw my comments, except for "murder is murder", until somebody says something that convinces me that it isn't so.

Good luck.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 07:15 PM

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

Until the people are all eyeless and toothless presumably.

Perhaps if people stopped supplying arms it might help.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 07:15 PM

Oh and in equal measure, There will be peace when Israelis love their children more than they hate Palestinians.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 08:02 PM

This has been going on since the Jews invaded Caanan and claimed the land for themselves. How the hell are we to stop it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 08:05 PM

" the firepower and the ability to use it to destroy many people's lives and property is not so evenly distributed by any means".

So, when has war, which this seems to be, ever been about matching one side's distructive power (or advantage) with the other sides?

Could it be that some Mudfolks are mixing war up with sport, where rules are set to make a match more fair and interesting for the observer/supporter.

While not pleasent, historically conflict, globally, has been and is about distruction, injury and death. One side normally has an upper hand and prevails, in one way or another...at least temporarily. Sounds callous, but war and conflict is just that.

While I always sympathize with civilians during military conflicts, they are always hit hard. At times, even their own forces use their plight for propaganda.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 08:26 PM

Golda Meir was one of the Zionists from North America and Europe that moved into the Palestinian lands. It was a mistake to ever let them move in, but nothing can be done about it these many years later. The Palestinians will never achieve self-government; the Israelis will never permit it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: skarpi
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 08:29 PM

a long time ago , the nazi killed the jews it was a sad chapter in human history , now is the jews acting like the Nazi did ???
by killing children of the palistine people ?

now notice that I am against all wars , and I know hamas has been
killing people from Isreal , killing makes a killing .

we must stop this right now , I am afraid that only way to make peace is to blow everthing up . and that will happen its only matter of time .

how low can the human race go , how low do we have to go ?
make money , be greedy , by killing others .........

its a sad world that we live in ........   
and I am a shamed for being of that race ..... that behavin .....

what about africa ... the killing , the hunger .... even we Icelanders are trying to build up the water system down there

we have Icelandic people there ABC´s children help we build up schools
tetach the children but still there are people who have to ruin it
just for money , greed and wars .... the people who manufactor weapons need to sell and politics starts wars ...........

I wonder did the US have anything to do to start the war in Balcan
, are they involved in the war in Africa ?
or are the soviet ivolved there or china ? why should they, becouse thay make weapons .....

I am just a little man , who lives in a little country
that never had any army , apart from the viking time history .
we live in peace still ? its hard for me to see little children be killed by people who either abuse them or kill them in war ....
and there is so little that I can do about it , as an Former EMT.

a reaspect for an human live .
its long gone . the meanest pretador in the world is human kind .

as I said long before here on Mudcat , it does not matter if you are african/american, Indian , asian , jewish , Budda, christian or Islam
we should all live in peace , but for century´s some world power
countrys has ropped other ´s of their treasure such as gold, oil dimands and others things, so why should people of those countrys not be angry ?? I may someday go back to school , and then I will learn about the history , and then try to understand all this better .

but enough of this .

all the best Skarpi


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 08:36 PM

Israel moves in - for the final solution?


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 09:05 PM

Israel moves in for what is almost certainly another futile attempt to obtain security for its citizens, realizing that it faces universal condemnation for doing so, but also realizing that no individual, no nation and no world organization will ever be of any real assistance in this process. Some countries, like the US, will pretend to help - for cynical reasons having more to do with domestic politics than anything else - but Israel, as always, stands alone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 09:20 PM

I don't see how this could be a good thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 12:54 AM

I am sure that we could blame either side with justification. What I can't comprehend is what Hamas would hope to gain by poking a stick into a hornets nest knowing full well what the response would be. If it is not sheer stupidity it must be suicide or sacrifice of it's people. It is a great shame that the world has allowed this conflict to continue for so many years!


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 01:06 AM

War, is indeed ugly! However, when the stated goal of Hamas, Hezbolah, Iran, among others, is to wipe your country off the face of the map, what option is there? By the way, Kat, in Israel women fight along side of the men, in hopes of providing safety for their children. My prayer, is that this does not spread, or pull anyone else into it. As of a late broadcast, aired just before I came on, the Muslim terrorists have been given the 'go ahead' to take action against American 'interests', as well, around the globe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 04:35 AM

Will the new president of America back the Jews just as every other president did ? we wait to see.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: polaitaly
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 05:42 AM

I will be happy if the new president back the Jews. I will be happier if he stops backing without questions the Israeli government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 06:08 AM

"There will be peace when Palestinians love their children more than they hate Israelis"

I have been reflecting on this sentence.

I am curious to know if it is accurate or not.

But if it is then lets consider what it means.


When palestinians love their children more than they hate Israelis.


This is an implied threat.


1. It presupposes that conflict between Israelis and Palestinians is grounded in hatred - Note: Palestinians - not Hamas.

2. It spells out that if palestinians persist in military conflict with Israel that their children will die.


It describes a clear policy.


John - thankyou for bringing these words to my attention.

I am astounded that I had never encountered them before.



We are witnessing that policy in action.

A highly organized modern army with the most up to date technology and the financial assistance to sustain it is blowing up schools and hospitals and killing children.


Now either they aren't all that they're cracked up to be or something is wrong with Israeli policy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 06:13 AM

Oh My God.

Look what a google search brought up ...

Hold on to your stomach


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 06:39 AM

Listening to talk radio each morning before I go to work I hear vitriolic condemnations by both sides, particularly by what I consider are fundamentalists who do not seem to tolerate the existence of the other side.

My belief is that both in Isreal and Palestine the majority of people just want to live their lives - and these are the real victims of the 'dispute'.

With regard to the futility of poking sticks in hornets' nest, surely the strategy if to provoke the hornets so that they swarm, and more people with more sticks rally against the hornets.

The world has become a more dangerous place again


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 06:41 AM

Simple answer is,Israel has no right to be in Palestine. Accept fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 07:01 AM

Where do you suggest relocating Israel to, Mexico, Isle of Wight? Israel/Palestine are not lines on a map, they are nations populated by people who seek self-identity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 08:08 AM

for cynical reasons having more to do with domestic politics than anything else

Not to sell the products of the American arms industry then?


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 08:09 AM

They are a nation dumped on the Palestinians by Britain and America since 1945, are you saying they have a right to the land ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 08:29 AM

I'm not taking sides - but if you are giving me a history lesson, then maybe Palastina by your argument shouldn't have been imposed on Judah in 135 CE by Rome.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 08:40 AM

Current Israeli policy does look well, more than a bit Herodian.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 08:46 AM

"There will be peace when Palestinians love their children more than they hate Israelis"

I read that as an Israeli threat as well and not as a comment on Palestinian behaviour.

And I was raised in (and thankfully recovering from) White Southern Baptist Conservative household.

The thing is, the balance of resources is not equal and Israel is a bully that for all intents and purposes "is" supported by the US, whether the US wants to admit it or not. Shameful and sickening.

Wouldn't be great if the mothers would rise up en masse to make it stop. Moms around the world, beating the living shit out of their war mongering children from highest to lowest rank. Drag em off home by the ear, tsk tsk at them and stick them in a corner forever.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: number 6
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 08:51 AM

The last time the Israeli IDF was in action in the Gaza was when they were forcibly (in many cases) removing the Jewish settlements from the region.

Crazy world.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: number 6
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 08:52 AM

""There will be peace when Palestinians love their children more than they hate Israelis"

Virginia Tam ... that is a quote form Golda Meir

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 08:58 AM

Israel to Gaza....."Please stop struggling while I strangle you, or I'll cut your head off"

Gaza to Israel...."but what difference will that make?"

Israel to Gaza "all that blood looks really bad on TV!!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 09:03 AM

number 6 I have read the thread and I know the origin of the quote. I still think it sounds like a threat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: number 6
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 09:07 AM

It depends on how you look at it VT ..... I think it could be rephrased to "there will be peace in our world when we start loving our children more than we hate our neigbours"

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 10:19 AM

"""There will be peace when Palestinians love their children more than they hate Israelis""


                   If they had a One-Child policy, they maybe they would love their children more.


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