BS: Israel Moves in.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 May 09 - 11:41 PM

Well, biLL, we agree again!

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: number 6
Date: 04 May 09 - 11:06 PM

War in itself is a crime against humanity.

The side that wins in a war does write history Rig ... and because of that they can never be accountable for the war crimes they themselves have committed.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 May 09 - 10:32 PM

The conflict in the Middle East makes it more clear with everyday that passes that capital is everything. The side that can buy the most sophisticated weapons will win, and when it's over, they will write the history.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 04 May 09 - 07:29 PM

I don't know who this "pro-Hamas" group is that has been mentioned. Nobody on this thread has expressed a pro-Hamas stance. I have even said that I think Hamas should be brought before an international court for war crimes. I haven't seen any of the hasbara people on this thread being willing to hold Israel to that same standard, even though it has been very well documented that Israel has committed numerous war crimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 04 May 09 - 07:23 PM

When I say that Israel intentionally targets civilians, I am talking about the large percentage of civilians killed (many of them children), who were killed by a single sniper's bullet, for no reason other than because some pimply kid thought it would be fun, and because the Israeli government has incredibly loose rules of engagement. I have already posted the documentation for this right here in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 09 - 07:22 PM

You minimize what you say all by yourself, lady.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 09 - 07:20 PM

Good, Lox. So let's you and I sign off, OK?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 04 May 09 - 07:20 PM

Mischaracterizing what I said does not constitute an argument. It is a straw man. I didn't say that Israel and Hamas should have the same standards (although, personally, I can't see much difference between them). I said that the rest of the world should hold them to the same standard. I realize this might be a tricky difference for some people to understand, but it is, nevertheless, a very big one.

Israel may not keep their armaments in the houses of civilians, but they do like to use innocent civilians as target practice. This is documented fact. And they are doing it in the name of their belief, as I have shown in the link I posted about what the government Rabbis have been telling the soldiers. So I don't see a whole lot of difference there.

Israel does train its children to hate and kill, and they require them to become soldiers before they're old enough to have formed any kind of maturity and judgement and they train them to kill and get them to want to annihilate anyone they're programmed to. And they don't allow any conscientious objectors. So I don't see a hell of a lot of difference there.

Israelis don't need suicide bombers to blow up buses. They have drones that drop huge missiles on Palestinian apartment houses. Apparently Israelis don't like to be inconvenienced when they go about their business of slaughtering innocents.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 04 May 09 - 07:18 PM

Peace, whats your problem?

Are you deliberately ignoring what I'm saying?

Ok - I'll say it again.

but in a new extra clear way.

I condemn Hamas and Hezbollah for using tactics that kill civilians and put the lives of civilians at risk.

So once again it is as clear as it can be that that point is not at issue.

I also Condemn the Israeli government and army for denying civilians in Gaza the freedom to trade with the outside world, the right to urgent medical attention and the freedom to make use of the few natural resources they have, and for responding to the crimes of hamas by murdering and maiming thousands of civilians including children and the old.

I believe that the Israeli governments stranglehold on basic paestinian human rights in Gaza has created the conditions under which violence has erupted and I am nauseated at the Israeli governments grossly disproportionate reaction to that violence.

That is my opinion.

Unlike my opinion on the subject of Hamas and Hezbollah, my view on Israeli government policy in Gaza doesn't represent the unanimous feeling of members of this website.

There are many who disagree with me.

Hence, we have alternative viewpoints to examine and discuss.

A discussion involving contrasting points of view is in my opinion infinitely more interesting than one where everyone has already formed the same conclusion.

I don't see any evidence of Carol defending the tactics of Hamas or Hezbollah.

I do see repeated condemnations of their tactics by her.

I don't see evidence of Hatred.

I do see serious differences of opinion between you and her.

But I don't infer anything about your character or hers from those differences.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 09 - 06:35 PM

And you just did. Thank you, Don.

Lox, will there be a similar statement from you? With no apologetics for Hamas, Hezbollah, etc?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 09 - 06:30 PM

No it does not, Don. However, it would be refreshing to see you say that now and then.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 May 09 - 06:29 PM

""I'm talking about Palestinian children of 9/10 and upwards who are taught that to be a martyr is everything. Take a look on youtube, there are loads of videos out there, loads of information about the child suicide bombers too.""


Don't be so naive Lizzie.

You don't need to put 9-10 year olds in danger when you have an overwhelming military superiority. You can leave them at home while you do your killing of women and children on somebody else's land.

If, however, you are on the side with home made rockets and obsolete sixty year old Russian rifles, giving 9 year old Yussef some firearms training and an AK47 may just keep him alive.

What do you think Momma and Poppa Israeli are teaching their kids about muslims.

Israeli kids learn to handle arms very young, and, well indoctrinated into the mindset of the defense force, they are ready to join in the "defence" of the promised land almost as soon as they are taller than the firearm that is always handy on any Israeli farm.

It's just a pity that Israel's "defence" invariably takes place outside the borders of that country. It is somehow always the case that the "aggressively retreating" neighbour gets beaten up by the "defensively advancing" guardians of Israeli sovereignty.

It is also a pity that the Western powers have so far failed to offer the IDF free spectacles, that they might be better able to distinguish armed men from children, and pregnant women.

Hezbollah and Hamas tactics ARE despicable, but I repeat, THAT DOES NOT JUSTIFY WAR CRIMES BY ISRAELIS.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 09 - 06:25 PM

"Who thinks that Hamas are justified putting weapons in hospitals schools etc?

anyone?

no?"

Read her posts, Lox. Save the rhetoric, OK?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 09 - 06:22 PM

Neither do I, Lox.

Now, try asking the pro-Hamas group their feelings. You will receive back garbled horseshit from what'serface and two thousand cut and pastes. Friggin' spare me.

I want s-f-b to actually, just once, condemn someone other than Israel. You see any hope of that ever happening? I think not. She spews hatred. And that's her contribution.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 04 May 09 - 06:16 PM

Peace,

Again it is a short discussion.

Who thinks that Hamas are justified putting weapons in hospitals schools etc?

anyone?

no?

ok - so we're all agreed on that one too.

That was a quick discussion.


Back to the one where there are opposing views to be discussed ...

... who agrees with Israeli government policy in Gaza.

I don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 May 09 - 06:05 PM

"THEY ALREADY DO. THEY CALL IT THE ISRAEL DEFENCE FORCE!!

You know damn well Lizzie that we mean the exact opposite. You know that we advocate that the Israelis should be made to stop killing Palestinians, AND VICE VERSA."


The Israel Defence Force is, I think you'll find, not about young children. Nor is it about suicide bombers or martyrdom.

The IDF


I'm talking about Palestinian children of 9/10 and upwards who are taught that to be a martyr is everything. Take a look on youtube, there are loads of videos out there, loads of information about the child suicide bombers too.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 09 - 06:01 PM

Nor do the sides have any right putting weapons in civilian areas--which we bloody well KNOW has been done by Israel's enemies. Weapons in mosques, schools, hospitals. So maybe that should be discussed, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 04 May 09 - 05:58 PM

Of course not, Lox.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 04 May 09 - 05:57 PM

ok

So we agree on two points.

1. Hezbollah and Hamas have no right to target Israeli civilians.

2. Everyone should be accountable to the same set of standards.


So what remains to be discussed?


well the only discussion left is that concerning the Israeli governments policy in Gaza.


Do they have the right to target civilians?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 09 - 05:41 PM

Indeed some Israelis are coming forth, as well they should. However, I won't hold my fucking breath waiting for Hezbollah or Hamas or any other of those assholes to come forth. Will YOU, Don?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 09 - 05:38 PM

"You know damn well Lizzie that we mean the exact opposite. You know that we advocate that the Israelis should be made to stop killing Palestinians, AND VICE VERSA."

Never saw that posted before. But, who's the 'we' you mention, Don?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 May 09 - 05:33 PM

"Only you have thought of those things. "

Well, it's a good job *someone's* thought of them, lox! :0)

Yeesh!

Hamas and Hezbollah, it seems to me, have the standards of Cowardly, Unfeeling, Uncaring, Vindictive Bastards.

but hey, what do I know, eh?

"Everyone should be accountable to the same set of standards."

Exactly, and no way has Israel ever stored weapons amongst its people, nor blown up buses of innocent folk...nor..nor..nor....

Geez! If you're hit enough, by enough bullies, then eventually you start to fight back with a vengeance and sadly, so it seems to me, that's what Israel is now doing.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 May 09 - 05:31 PM

""Are you saying that Israel should train its children to hate and kill, make child soldiers of them, train them to kill and get them to want to annihilate anyone they're programmed to?""

THEY ALREADY DO. THEY CALL IT THE ISRAEL DEFENCE FORCE!!

You know damn well Lizzie that we mean the exact opposite. You know that we advocate that the Israelis should be made to stop killing Palestinians, AND VICE VERSA.

At the moment all efforts are directed toward hamstringing the Palestinians, so the Israelis won't have to get out of breath chasing them down and killing them.

For Christ's sake, you don't even have to take OUR word for what the IDF are doing. Their own soldiers are coming forward and reporting the war crimes they have seen. Numbers of Germans were hanged after WW2, for the self same actions.

Sure Hamas is guilty too, but that cannot justify the illegal response, yet the US, and, UK governments continue to condemn Hamas, while selling arms to Israel.

That makes US just as guilty as them, and I don't want my government doing that IN MY NAME.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 May 09 - 05:25 PM

"If the intentional targeting of civilians (the practice of which is extremely well documented as being done by Israel) is defined as terrorism, then Israel is a terrorist state (as has already been shown in the document from the UN that I posted earlier)."

'Scuse me??????

Are you talking about Israel targetting the rockets being fired at them from the houses of innocent civilians, because that's where the total bastards who call themselves Hezbollah have stored their weapons? And are you talking about the fact they stored them there knowing that Israel would have to bomb the houses to stop the rockets being fired, and therefore would undoubtedly end up killing the innocents, thus facing condemnation from some prats around the world who refuse to understand that the cowardly shites who stored the weapons there in the first place are the ones who should be put up against a wall and shot for helping to kill their own people?

We need to be clear about these things, you know.

Hamas and Hezbollah are without shame, without conscience, without guilt. All that matters is their sick and twisted beliefs and to hell with their own people.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 04 May 09 - 05:21 PM

Lizzie you misunderstand.

Everyone should be judged according to the same standards.

Everyone should be accountable to the same set of standards.

Everyone should be expected to adhere to the same standards.

Everyone has the right to be treated according to the same standards.


This is not a partisan point of view, it is an ideological point of view.


It applies to ... everyone.


The debate has reached a point where all contributors have the choice to declare whether they agree to the principle of equal standards for all or not.

Carol is clearly not saying any of the things above that you have asked.

Only you have thought of those things.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 May 09 - 04:29 PM

"I see that I am still the only one in this discussion who thinks that everyone should be held to the same standards. Rather than answering my question asking who, besides me, thinks everyone should be held to the same standards, everyone has decided instead to either demonize me, or demonize the people Israel is victimizing. "


So, are you saying that Israel should have the same standards as Hezbollah then?

Are you saying that Israel should keep their rockets and explosives in the houses of innocent civilians and not give a shite when they get blown up, simply move any remaining ammunition to other houses where the next lot of people will be maimed and killed, all in the name of their Belief?

Are you saying that Israel should train its children to hate and kill, make child soldiers of them, train them to kill and get them to want to annihilate anyone they're programmed to?

Are you saying that the Israelis should send in suicide bombers to blow up Palestinian buses?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Barry Finn
Date: 04 May 09 - 04:11 PM

I concur with Don, Lox & Carole C.

My hope in Obama was that he would no longer support the US policy of backing & supporting Israel, he has not stood against the powers that be in this matter. Without peace between Israel & Palestine there will never be a settled Middle East.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 May 09 - 02:30 PM

Lox and CarolC,

Two definitive posts. Lox expressed what I have been striving to formulate, better than I was able to manage.
A number of us have been slagged for NOT opposing the Hamas rockets when in fact we HAD, REPEATEDLY.

Carol, Same standards for all? YES, YES, YES! I wonder how many times it will need to be said before the ISRAELI apologists concur?

Oh, and to whom it may concern, a point of FACT. There is NO SUCH THING as a Jewish Nation.

The NATION is ISRAEL, which happens to be inhabited by a large proportion of Jewish citizens, of MANY different original Nationalities.

JUDAISM is a religious faith, and I think that the founding fathers of that faith would object rather strongly to being linked with the actions of the ISRAELI government, especially as they were part and parcel of the original population of PALESTINE, in which Jews, Arabs, and even to some extent Romans co-existed in a mainly peaceful way.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 04 May 09 - 01:57 PM

I believe wholeheartedly that everyone should be judged by the same set of standards.

I would wholeheartedly condemn the Government of the USA if it were to give actual or tacit support to Hamas policies of aggression against civilians in Israel.

I wholeheartedly condemn the Government of the USA for giving actual support to Israeli government policies of agression against palestinian civilians in Gaza.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 04 May 09 - 01:48 PM

@04 May 09 - 01:41 PM...

Precisely

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 04 May 09 - 01:41 PM

On the issue of Hamas rockets being fired into Israel,

the reason why this is not a hot topic on this thread is that everyone agrees that it is wrong.

This is how that discussion has gone - is the use of rockets to target civilians wrong? yes.

Does anyone support the use of rockets by hamas against Israeli civilians? No.

Ok ... so anymore points of view on that subject?

Nope ...

So we all agree then ...

So that conversation is over.

Because nobody disagrees...

So that is why noone is saying anything about it ...

Because everyone has said everything and there are no issues outstanding amongst members of this forum on that topic ...

right ...

... so whats left on the agenda ... ?

Aha - looks like there is still a multitude of different opinions on the subject of Israeli policy.

There are some people who support it and some who disagree with it.

And they still disagree and are still discussing it.

So it hasn't finished.

So thats why it is still being discussed.

So thats why everyone is on about Israeli Government policy and not on about Hamas policy.

Cos its still a live conversation.

Well I'm glad I cleared that up for myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 04 May 09 - 11:39 AM

Israel was extremely well represented at Durban II by the hasbara brigades, who dominated and monopolized much of the conference. The Palestinians weren't even allowed to have any side events at that conference, and were not allowed to present any of their issues for discussion, so they were not represented at all.

If the intentional targeting of civilians (the practice of which is extremely well documented as being done by Israel) is defined as terrorism, then Israel is a terrorist state (as has already been shown in the document from the UN that I posted earlier).

Everyone who commits such acts is guilty of war crimes and should be brought before an international court. (This includes Hamas, Hezbollah, and the government of Israel.)

I see that I am still the only one in this discussion who thinks that everyone should be held to the same standards. Rather than answering my question asking who, besides me, thinks everyone should be held to the same standards, everyone has decided instead to either demonize me, or demonize the people Israel is victimizing.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 04 May 09 - 11:30 AM

I find it interesting that the playbook referenced previously doesn't actually dispute the validity of any of the charges people are making against Israel. It only tries to smear people who say them. This is a standard hasbara practice that is designed to A. silence dissent, B. to use McCarthy era style tactics to punish and destroy the lives of people who criticize Israel, and C. to shift the focus away from Israel's behavior to the behavior of others.

These tactics have been very successful over the years, but they are becoming much less so now that more and more people can see right through them, and now understand that Palestinians are human beings, too, with the same rights as everyone else, and that standing up for those rights is not an act of hatred against anyone.

The reason Israel needs hasbara type tactics is because it is trying to defend the indefensible, and therefore it has no legitimate arguments. The only argument it has is to demonize those who criticize it.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 04 May 09 - 11:21 AM

Israel has been the aggressor in all but one of the wars it has participated in, and it currently is waging an illegal occupation of land that it has no right to under international law. Israel, after its creation, and the leaders of Israel prior to its creation, have committed numerous acts of terrorism since before its creation. Israel has not been beaten up by anyone for decades, but rather, it has been beating up a hell of a lot of other people for decades. It started its existence with an act of genocide and ethnic cleansing (even prior to having declared itself a state), and it has continued this genocide and ethnic cleansing to this very day. While Israel has suffered terrorist attacks against it, it is not the primary victim in the Middle East. It is the world's only remaining white supremacist colonial enterprise.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Teribus
Date: 04 May 09 - 10:09 AM

1400

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 04 May 09 - 09:11 AM

CarolC:
"but what Hamas does is not terrorism according to international law, nor Hezbollah, for that matter."


According to international law, the intentional targeting of civilians(which is defined as terrorism) , and the random rocket firings( which is defined as terrorism) are both war crimes. Glad to know that such actions are OK.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 04 May 09 - 09:07 AM

CarolC
"while Israel was very well represented, and took every opportunity to promote its agenda."

"Ahmadinejad is the most prominent head of state scheduled to address the opening of the UN review conference on Monday, which is being boycotted by the United States, Israel, Canada, Australia and the Netherlands."



CarolC
"They're saying that because of Ahmadinejad, all of the White countries had to boycott the racism conference. And by doing that, they are avoiding having the finger pointed at them as well, where it also belongs."

So, Israel, with only the non-white countries represented, was "very well represented, and took every opportunity to promote its agenda"


Make up your mind, CaorlC. You can't claim both, and expect to be taken seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: bobad
Date: 04 May 09 - 07:33 AM

The "play book" referenced by Peace.......it's all so familiar.........where have I heard it before, word for word......hmmm?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 May 09 - 05:43 AM

'One World' by Chris de Burgh

"I can feel it in my blood, I can hear it in my footsteps,
I can see it all around, that everywhere connections
Are breaking away, and people know that something must change, must change;

There are better men than I, who with courage and conviction
Are patrolling the lines, waking up the sleepers who will not decide,
And do not think there's anything wrong;

But we are all living here in this beautiful world, sharing
Sunrises every day, we may have different lives, but for all of us,
Here we will stay;

We're living in one world, sleeping in one world, dreaming
In one world, and no-one's going anywhere,
We're living in one world, working in one world, breathing in one world,
We're just the same as anyone;

I believe there is a God, but it doesn't mean that my God is greater
Than yours, it only means we all have the right to believe, 'cos nobody
Knows it for sure, for sure; if there's a Heaven or Hell, or a sweet Paradise,
Or a place where we all meet again, 'cos with minimal change
Everyone here is the same;

We're living in one world, sleeping in one world, dreaming
In one world, and no-one's going anywhere,
We're living in one world, working in one world, breathing in
One world, we're just the same as anyone,
We're living in one world, sleeping in one world, dreaming in one world,
And no-one's going anywhere;
We're living in one world, working in one world, breathing in one world,
We're just the same as anyone;

Listen to the voice of millions calling me and you,
Take good care of everywhere 'cos this is my home too,
Laughing in one world, crying in one world, hoping in one world,
Praying in one world, trying in one world, this is my home too,
One world, one world, one world, one world,
One world, one world, one world"

One World - The Video

Palestine and Israel are both wrong.   

No-one has the right any longer to wage war on anyone else.

What the fook are they fighting for anyway? A strip of land? "No-one *owns* the land that people walk upon" in the first place, for Godsake!

Until people begin to see themselves as 'people' and not as Israelis or Palestinians, we ain't going to get anywhere.

Israel has been beaten up for decades by bullies and thugs who want to see the country and her people annihilated. All she ever wanted was to live in peace, to be left alone in her own place, to grow and prosper and to have a peaceful place to raise her children, after the terrible things that happened in WWII. But others had other ideas.

Yasser Arafat did such terrible damage to his country, to the people of his country and to Israel, feeding the fires of hate behind his false smile, creating the suicide bombers whilst dining out at The White House....

The Palestinian adults who to this day still train children to kill, carry that on, breeding the next generation of haters, ensuring that the poor brain-washed children grow to carry on the fight..and the hate.

Hamas and Hezbollah in their bloodthirsty quest to annhilate Israel have added to it all in buckeloads.

There are people on both sides of this hell who know that they are all the same and they're doing all they can to spread that message, but until that message has been heard, and understood, by the armies of both sides, and they've put down their guns, refused to fire the rockets, this hell will continue.

It's time to put the flowers back into the guns...

WHY, as a species, the *same* species, are we so divided, so intent on killing our own?

I have never understood it, nor will I...ever. We are ALL the same. The Palestinian mother cries the same tears as the Israeli mother, both weep for children who will never grow up, who have their lives taken away or blown apart by adults of their own species, in the name of...*what*?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 04 May 09 - 01:03 AM

( ...that'll show them!)

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 04 May 09 - 01:00 AM

Yes, that's right. I hate Israel so much that I have devised the ultimate punishment for it. My evil scheme is to force them to be held to the same standard as everyone else!


Muahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 04 May 09 - 12:59 AM

Popped a boil there, did we?


Yes, it's true. While I was complaining here in the Mudcat that Israel was committing war crimes in Lebanon, I did not write to the Israeli government to complain about it. Nor did I write to Hezbollah about their rockets. I have never complained to any members of either side of the conflicts.

I did, however, condemn the killing of civilians by Hezbollah at the time, and I have condemned the killing of civilians by Hamas on many occasions, along with the killing of civilians by Israel.

I have stated that I demand that both sides be held to the same standards, including at least a few times right here in this thread.

The fact that the poster with the ironic screen name is refusing to demand that they both be held to the same standard shows that the only one between the two of us who is consumed with hate is the poster with the ironic screen name.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 09 - 12:55 AM

This your play book?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 09 - 12:50 AM

Why didn't you protest the rocket attacks, huh? WHY?

You, btw, have NO idea to whom I have or haven't written. While you were complaining that Israel was being heavy handed in Lebanon, I was writing back and forth with a Ministry in Israel telling THEM that. You did nothing. Yippee for you. SSDD with you, lady. You hate Israel and you sure seem not to give a shit when Israelis get killed. Maybe you're a great person, but you just don't seem that way.

As for my name on Mudcat, fuck you, Carol. It hasn't worked. Your own OCD with regard to terrorist groups--have you ever posted that you hate it when Israeli kids get blown up in suicide attacks?

The name I choose to use is not really your business. You want peace, it's easy. Stop slinging shit at me and I'll stop slinging it back.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 04 May 09 - 12:43 AM

Writing to Hamas accomplishes nothing. I've never written to the government of Israel, either.

I have however, written to my own government and demanded that the Palestinians and Israelis be held to the same standard.

How many times has the poster with the ironic screen name demanded that both peoples be held to the same standard?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 04 May 09 - 12:41 AM

And by the way, it was Israel that began violating the ceasefire, the first day it went into effect (and seven times total in the first week), when it started shooting at farmers in Gaza who were trying to get to their land...

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3560972,00.html

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 09 - 12:37 AM

Nice try, above poster.

Did you ever write to Hamas when they sent 7000 rockets into Israel over a five to six year period? Or YOUR government?

I thought not.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 03 May 09 - 11:57 PM

Just as I thought. I note that the above poster is not willing to hold Israel to the same standards as those with whom Israel is in conflict.

As I've said before, Hamas is already being punished, along with the civilian population of Gaza, by the government of my own country. While Israel is not only not being punished, it is being actively supported by my government and my tax dollars. When was the last time the above poster has written to the government of the US to demand that Israel be held to the same standards as the Palestinians?

Never? Just as I thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 03 May 09 - 11:18 PM

When did you write to Hamas and request they stop the rocket attacks that caused the invasion a few months back? Or will the reply be, "They were just defending themselves." Keriste, talk about crap.

You want to use terms like that with me, they'll be coming back to you in spades. You have said you stand for human rights. Yeah, but not Jewish human rights, huh? You are beyond hypocritical. Start with two-faced and disingenuous and go from there.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 03 May 09 - 10:50 PM

Bullshit, above poster. Your absolute hatred of things Jewish and Israel in particular show you to be the hypocrite here.