BS: Israel Moves in.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: C. Ham
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 09:01 PM

The Iranians, on the other hand, do have a vote there, in free and open elections. And they will decide.

Oh, yeah. One more thing. Ahmadinejad has never threatened to wipe Israel or all Zionists or Jews off the face of the earth.

That is a lie that is being promoted to give Israel an excuse to attack Iran first, but he never, never, never said that.

Does anyone think she actually believes the things she says. Does she really think Iran has "free and open elections"?

Does she actually believe Ahmadinejad has never threatened to wipe Israel and Jews off the map?

Ahmadinejad threatens Israel with annihilation

Another link

And another one.

We could go on and on posting hundreds of links to articles in reputable publications on the threats made by her hero Ahmadinejad.

Then again, maybe I'm wrong, and Bracak Obama is wrong, and Hilary Clinton is wrong, and Stephen Harper is wrong, and Gordon Brown is wrong, and Tony Blair is wrong and CarolC is right.

Hell, even Ahmadinejad is wrong because he's repeated his threats many times.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 07:20 PM

Oh, yeah. One more thing. Ahmadinejad has never threatened to wipe Israel or all Zionists or Jews off the face of the earth.

That is a lie that is being promoted to give Israel an excuse to attack Iran first, but he never, never, never said that.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 07:17 PM

Of course, another way to persuade Iran to give up any nuclear weapon ambitions would be for Israel to get rid of its nuclear weapons.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 07:14 PM

Almost forgot. On the subject of Ahmadinejad's speech (the original version of which could be said to contain Holocaust denial, and which was only changed at the last minute), I agree with all of the rest of what I have read so far (I haven't had a chance to read the whole thing yet). I agree with his characterizations of the imperial West, and what he has said about Israel's behavior.

On the subject of everything else he has ever said, I have not read what he has to say about whether or not he embraces the strict form of Islam that he has been characterized as embracing in a post above, so I am not in a position to form an opinion. I definitely am not in agreement with hardline beliefs about Islam, but its not my place to decide for the Iranians what sort of Islam they should practice, or whether or not to have a secular government. I support the moderates in that country, but I don't have a vote there. The Iranians, on the other hand, do have a vote there, in free and open elections. And they will decide.

However, Iran is not a danger to me in any way shape or form, not even if it gets nuclear weapons. The only fear I have about Iran is that the government of Israel will do something profoundly stupid and attack that country. An attack on Iran will not, according to most experts, prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon eventually, and attacking them will result in a hell of a lot of pain, suffering, and death.

If we want Iran to consider not arming itself with nuclear weapons, one thing that might help would be for the government of Israel to stop threatening it (which it has been doing for many years). Israel doesn't want there to be any major powers besides itself in the Middle East, and this agenda, along with the wars that Israel starts and the instability it creates in many countries in order to enforce this agenda, is the thing that causes me the most concern. However, I've read that Lieberman has announced that Iran is no longer the major threat to Israel, and he has shifted his focus (like Obama), to Afghanistan, and Pakistan. So my guess is that either Israel is going to fall in line behind Obama's program, or they're just pretending to do so and they're going to wage a surprise attack on Iran when nobody's paying much attention. I certainly hope the latter does not happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 04:19 AM

And, to put it another way, there is no reason for me to protest US government support of Hamas, because it isn't getting any and there is no reason for me to protest Hamas not being held responsible for its killing of civilians, because it is already being punished for that.

When was the last time the racist who consistently follows me around using smear tactics on me wrote the members of the US government demanding that the government of Israel also be punished, and to demand that the US government stop supporting and arming it?

Never? That's what I thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 04:08 AM

I have said that I don't agree with Hamas on many occasions here in the Mudcat, and I have even condemned their killing of civilians many times. If someone who is only looking to smear me rather than actually read what I have to say can't be arsed to pay attention when I do that, that's their problem and says far more about them than about me. I have never written to Hamas (and I can't imagine how I would do that) and I have also never written to the government of Israel. I have, however, condemned the actions of both Hamas, as well as the government of Israel here in the Mudcat. However, writing to either of them will obviously have no effect whatever. This is because the people who need to be written to are the people in the US government who approve the funding of Israel's war machine and its colonialist settlements with US taxpayer dollars.

I will ask again, however, what population is Al Jazeera holding under a brutal and racist military occupation, and I will add, what population is Al Jazeera committing genocide against? I don't protest the racist Israeli propaganda organs, either. That's because they don't have any power over anyone, any more than Al Jazeera has.

But all of this is beside the point. The point is that Israel holds all the power, and its crimes against humanity are vastly more immense than those of Hamas. We are punishing, not only Hamas, but also all of the civilians in Gaza. We are not only not punishing the government (or any of the civilians) of Israel, we (me, my government, and my fellow US taxpayers) are supporting the government of Israel in what it is doing to the Palestinians.

So it is not an outside entity that I am protesting against. It is my own country, and its involvement in and support of Israel's genocide, apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and military occupation of the Palestinians that I am protesting against. Not only do I have a right to do this, I have a responsibility to do it. Unlike me, the person repeatedly trying to smear me in this thread has the luxury of living in a country that is not directly responsible for what the government of Israel does, so that person can sit back with their popcorn and enjoy the show while thousands of Palestinian children get killed and/or maimed by the government of Israel.

The person who has been haranguing me in this thread wrote a letter to the government of Israel (I bet that made a big difference), and has spent the rest of their time trying to shut up people who are working to get the government of the US to stop supporting Israel's crimes against the Palestinians and against humanity. Nice work.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 03:29 AM

That is much too dramatic. Hamas is a governemnt organization. So is the Likud. You have never NOT? Spare me.

Either it's wrong or it's right. Tell me when you told Hamas/AlJazeera they are wrong. From that point we can talk. Until then, we have NO common ground. Capiche?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 01:07 AM

Lots of links from and/or about Jews who are working very hard for Palestinians' freedom in this thread, too

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 12:32 AM

South Africans discuss their trip to Palestine, and say the Israeli military occupation of Palestine is much, much worse than South African Apartheid

"Lunch is in a hotel in the city, and Madlala-Routledge speaks. "It is hard for me to describe what I am feeling. What I see here is worse than what we experienced. But I am encouraged to find that there are courageous people here. We want to support you in your struggle, by every possible means. There are quite a few Jews in our delegation, and we are very proud that they are the ones who brought us here. They are demonstrating their commitment to support you. In our country we were able to unite all the forces behind one struggle, and there were courageous whites, including Jews, who joined the struggle. I hope we will see more Israeli Jews joining your struggle."

She was deputy defense minister from 1999 to 2004; in 1987 she served time in prison. Later, I asked her in what ways the situation here is worse than apartheid. "The absolute control of people's lives, the lack of freedom of movement, the army presence everywhere, the total separation and the extensive destruction we saw."

Madlala-Routledge thinks that the struggle against the occupation is not succeeding here because of U.S. support for Israel - not the case with apartheid, which international sanctions helped destroy. Here, the racist ideology is also reinforced by religion, which was not the case in South Africa. "Talk about the 'promised land' and the 'chosen people' adds a religious dimension to racism which we did not have."

Equally harsh are the remarks of the editor-in-chief of the Sunday Times of South Africa, Mondli Makhanya, 38. "When you observe from afar you know that things are bad, but you do not know how bad. Nothing can prepare you for the evil we have seen here. In a certain sense, it is worse, worse, worse than everything we endured. The level of the apartheid, the racism and the brutality are worse than the worst period of apartheid.

"The apartheid regime viewed the blacks as inferior; I do not think the Israelis see the Palestinians as human beings at all. How can a human brain engineer this total separation, the separate roads, the checkpoints? What we went through was terrible, terrible, terrible - and yet there is no comparison. Here it is more terrible. We also knew that it would end one day; here there is no end in sight. The end of the tunnel is blacker than black."

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 12:28 AM

On the subject of Jews who fled "Arab" countries, this from an Iraqi (Arab) Jew...

"I write this article for the same reason I wrote my book: to tell the American people, and especially the American Jews, that Jews from Islamic lands did not emigrate willingly to Israel; that, to force them to leave, Jews killed Jews; and that, to buy time to confiscate ever more Arab lands, Jews on numerous occasions rejected genuine peace initiatives from their Arab neighbors."

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:M1nyWwzuqz8J:www.ameu.org/uploads/vol31_issue2_1998.pdf+Naeim+Giladi&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 12:19 AM

The idea that it is necessary for me to protest Al Jazeera is rather absurd. Which population is Al Jazeera holding under a brutal and racist military occupation, armed and funded by my tax dollars?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 12:18 AM

The life of an Israeli civilian is worth exactly the same as the life of a Palestinian civilian, and each of them is worth exactly the same as all other civilians everywhere in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 12:15 AM

I have never not disagreed with the Hamas charter. But Hamas is the only actor in this scenario (between the government of Israel and Hamas) who is being punished, despite the fact that Hamas' crimes against humanity pale in comparison to those of the government of Israel.

And clearly, the person who is accusing me of not seeing Jews as human beings is the one who doesn't see them as human beings, because that person is not willing to acknowledge the existence of the many who don't agree with that person's racist attitudes towards Palestinians, and who are working very hard and making tremendous sacrifices to help the Palestinians gain their independence. Like the ones who are responsible for many of the links that I've provided in this thread, for instance.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: C. Ham
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 08:17 PM



She condemns Ahmadinejad's Holocaust denial but agrees with everything else he says. Since Ahmadinejad wasn't denying the Holocaust in the speech this week that I quoted, we must conclude that she agrees with everything else that Ahmadinejad has said.

I sure hope that she has never in her life had sexual relations outside the bounds of marriage. If she has, she, in agreeing with Ahmadinejad, beleives she should be executed by a male member of her family. I hope there are no gay people in her family, because she believes, in agreeing with Ahmadinejad, that they should be put to death.

Let us hope the world prevents Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons so that Ahmadinejad cannot carry out his threats to wipe Israel, all Zionists and Jews off the face of the earth.

And let us, for God's sake, pray that she never comes into possession of a weapon of mass destruction.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: C. Ham
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 07:55 PM

Rights group: Hamas kills, tortures foes

WASHINGTON (JTA) -- Hamas systematically killed and tortured its opponents, Human Rights Watch reported.

The watchdog reported this week that the terrorist group had killed 32 opponents and maimed dozens of others during and after its recent war with Israel in the Gaza Strip.

"The spate of attacks began during Israel's military operation, from December 27, 2008 to January 18, 2009, including the summary execution of 18 men in Gaza, most of them suspected collaborators with Israel," the report said. "It has continued in the three months since, with 14 more killings, at least four of them of people in detention."

Human Rights Watch rejected explanations from Hamas officials that such crimes were the exception and that some of those responsible faced charges.

"The systematic nature of many of the executions and attacks, and the fact that killings have continued after the Israeli offensive, undercut these assertions," the rights group said.

Israel launched a military operation in late December after Hamas broke a cease-fire with a massive intensification of rocket attacks on southern Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 03:55 PM

Human lives are of equal value- as are the Fatah lives ended by Hamas, and the Darfur lives, and the Cambodians, and the Armenians.


How many Jews are there in the Arab nations?
How many Arabs in the Jewish nation?

Tell me again about genocide- where are the Jews that before 1948 lived in the West Bank???? ( ruled from 1948 to 1967 by Jordan- and tell me about the Palestinian state that was created... Oh, I forgot, there was none, since Jordan itself was supposed to be the Moslim (Arab) Palestinan Homeland portion of Mandate Palestine, as Israel was supposed to be the Jewish Homeland

Why were Jews forbidden to settle east of the Jordan, in the Transjordan 77% of the Mandate Palestine?

How many times have the Arabs, in part or whole, declared thay would destroy the Jews? Lets just look at 1948 and later...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 03:44 PM

Lives are lives. Period. And you know that, Michael--at least I hope you do.

Now, I have a question or two back to you.

What do you think of the Hamas Charter?

Have YOU ever written to Hamas protesting their violent actions? I have written to Israel protesting theirs.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 03:25 PM

I would like to pose a simple question, and I would like Peace, beardedbruce, Barry Finn, McGrath of Harlow, and CarolC to answer it. Please answer yes or no only.

Q: Is the life of an Israeli civilian worth more than that of a Palestinian civilian?

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 02:21 PM

OOOOOOOPS

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: bobad
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 01:17 PM

Iranian Atomic Slip of Tongue...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ileZKRVI-2M

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 01:03 PM

Let us know when you've written to Al Jazeera and complained about their coverage and the programs they air.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 12:56 PM

Tell me about the peaceful people you support. Just tell me.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 12:34 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThhunhZ6kEk

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 12:32 PM

I will go get more cut and paste for you. Back soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 12:29 PM

Hamas delegation in Egypt ahead of unity talks
3 days ago

EL-ARISH, Egypt (AFP) — A delegation of Hamas officials from Gaza arrived in Egypt through the Rafah border crossing on Sunday, a border official said, a week before Palestinian unity talks were to resume in Cairo.

The delegation was led by Salah Bardawil, one of the Islamist movement's leaders in the Gaza Strip.

Hamas and its secular rival Fatah, led by Palestinian Authority president Mahmud Abbas, have been bitterly divided after Hamas seized control of Gaza in a week of deadly factional fighting in June 2007.

Egyptian efforts to reconcile them have been unsuccessful so far because of disagreements on the composition and obligations of a Palestinian unity government.

Hamas and Fatah adjourned their last round of meetings in early April, with Fatah saying it wished to discuss new proposals by Egyptian mediators with the leadership.

The main stumbling block is the obligations of a unity government. Hamas, which wants to replace Israel with an Islamic Palestinian state, says it will not commit to existing agreements between Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

The Middle East Quartet -- Russia, the United States, United Nations and European Union -- has made dealing with Hamas conditional on its recognition of Israel and commitment to past Palestinian-Israeli accords.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 12:22 PM

"This definitely cannot be said of the racist hate mongers in this thread who think that only Hamas should be held responsible for their crimes against humanity, but the Israeli government should be supported in theirs."

When is the last time you realized that if you sling this kind of shit around that some of it would land back in your lap?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 12:21 PM

I salute the Queen of Cut and Paste. If you can't beat 'em with brains, baffle them with bullshit.

When is the last time you disagreed with the Hamas Charter?
When is the last time you wrote to Hamas asking them to stop the rockets? Suicide bombings?
When is the last time you perceived Jews to be human?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 12:16 PM

Smears and taunts is all they've got.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 12:10 PM

Blah, blah, blah.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 11:46 AM

After shooting one Palestinian demonstrator, Israeli soldiers call out, 'Do you want more gas?'

"This is a fuller video than the short, shocking video we posted last night depicting the killing of Bassem Ibrahim Abu Ramah yesterday at the weekly protest of the confiscatory wall in the West Bank village of Bil'in. The video shows plainly that the demonstrators were not violent. Here is a rough translation of the words on the video, supplied by an anonymous friend:

The demonstrators are telling the soldiers in Hebrew that there are children and Israelis present and they are asking them not to shoot. Bassem is shouting "listen, wait a minute, wait a minute" before he falls to the ground. The soldiers then fire another round of tear gas as the demonstrators yell that he is injured and needs an ambulance.

In the longer video, as [Mohammed] Khatib is arguing with the soldier, I can't make out all of it because they're talking over each other, but you can clearly hear the soldier say, "do you want more gas?" They can see someone is on the ground and bleeding and because they know it's a Palestinian, they don't care.

And the soldier is telling Khatib "Are you going to shut up?" as Khatib pleads with him to stop shooting. The Israeli who's next to Bassem right after the shooting is just saying, there's an injured man, bring an ambulance quickly. He asks Bassem where he was hit. The demonstrators also repeat throughout, this is a non-violent demonstration. The soldiers merely respond with teargas."


New York Times quotes Israeli military's false account of Bil'in killing despite video evidence


http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/04/30yearold-palestinian-resident-of-bilin-killed-in-weekly-nonviolent-protest-against-the-wall.html

The ISM notes that Abu Rahmeh is the 18th Palestinian killed by the Israel military while protesting the Wall. Here is a list. Although such a needless death is a tragedy at any age, please note how young some of those killed have been:

February 26th, 2004:
Muhammad Fadel Hashem Rian, age 25 and Zakaria Mahmoud 'Eid Salem, age 28
Shot dead during a demonstration against the wall in Biddu.

February 26th, 2004:
Abdal Rahman Abu 'Eid, age 17
Died of a heart attack after teargas projectiles were shot into his home during a demonstration against the wall in Biddu.

February 26th, 2004:
Muhammad Da'ud Saleh Badwan, age 21
Shot during a demonstration against the wall in Biddu. Muhammad died of his wounds on March 3rd 2004.

April 16th, 2004:
Hussein Mahmoud 'Awad 'Alian, age 17
Shot dead during a demonstration against the wall in Betunya.

April 18th, 2004:
Diaa' A-Din 'Abd al-Karim Ibrahim Abu 'Eid, age 23
Shot dead during a demonstration against the wall in Biddu.

April 18th, 2004:
Islam Hashem Rizik Zhahran, age 14
Shot during a demonstration against the wall in Deir Abu Mash�al. Islam died of his wounds April 28th.

February 15th, 2005:
'Alaa' Muhammad 'Abd a-Rahman Khalil, age 14
Shot dead while throwing stones at an Israeli vehicle driven by private security guards near the wall in Betunya.

May 4th, 2005:
Jamal Jaber Ibrahim 'Asi, age 15 and U'dai Mufid Mahmoud 'Asi, age 14
Shot dead during a demonstration against the wall in Beit Liqya.

February 2nd, 2007:
Taha Muhammad Subhi al-Quljawi, age 16
Shot dead when he and two friends tried to cut the razor wire portion of the wall in the Qalandiya Refugee Camp. He was wounded in the thigh and died from loss of blood after remaining a long time in the field without being treated.

March 28th, 2007:
Muhammad Elias Mahmoud 'Aweideh, age 15
Shot dead during a demonstration against the wall in Um a-Sharayet - Samiramis.

March 2nd, 2008:
Mahmoud Muhammad Ahmad Masalmeh, age 15
Shot when trying to cut the razor wire portion of the wall in Beit Awwa.

July 29th, 2008:
Ahmed Husan Youssef Mousa, age 10
Killed while he and several friends tried to remove coils of razor wire from land belonging to the village.

July 30th, 2008:
Youssef Ahmed Younes Amirah, age 17
Shot in the head with rubber coated bullets during a demonstration against the wall in Ni'lin. Youssef died of his wounds August 4th 2008.

December 28th, 2009:
Arafat Khawaja, age 22
Shot in the back with live ammunition in Ni'lin during a demonstration against Israel�s assault on Gaza.

December 28th, 2009:
Mohammad Khawaja, age 20:
Shot in the head with live ammunition during a demonstration in Ni'lin against Israel's assault on Gaza. Mohammad died in the hospital on December 31st 2009.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 11:36 AM

"I was struck by Dr. Gilbert's tone and manner. He spoke to the audience by walking up and down the aisle, looking at people directly and inviting them into his story. He was upfront about his politics and sympathies - against all killing of civilians, in solidarity with the oppressed (the Palestinians) and sympathetic to all who resist military occupation (be they Israeli or Palestinian). Occupation is the disease, said the doctor, and until it is ended, the patients (Palestinian and Israeli) will not achieve a healthy life.

Dr. Gilbert warned of the graphic nature of some of his photos, but explained that to understand the crisis in Gaza one must look at the realities. The most graphic, he explained were not necessarily the bloody stumps and ripped apart bodies (although I had a hard time looking at those), but the sorrowful, vacant look in some of the eyes of the children, the utter grief in the eyes of a mother, the look of submission in the eyes of an old man. One photo of a Palestinian farmer who lost a hand in an explosion from a missile, was upsetting, not because he lost his hand (which thankfully wasn't shown in the photo) but because of his look of utter loss. 'What will become of my life now,' said the farmer to Dr. Gilbert. 'All I ever wanted was to farm my land. I am not political, nor care about the different factions. I just wanted to provide for my family. How can I do that now?'

Dr. Gilbert wove facts and figures into his narratives about patients' lives and experiences during the three week assault. At one point in his presentation he stopped speaking and played a soundtrack he recorded of the night sounds of Gaza. For five minutes we in the audience listened quietly to the sound of the humming drones, distant explosions, rocket and machine gunfire. Imagine these sounds 24 hours a day, every day of the week, said Dr. Gilbert as he moved onto the next group of slides.

Photos of Shifa hospital, the epicenter of trauma treatment in the heart of Gaza City. Windows shattered and covered with paper. Cold hallways where relatives huddled outside operation rooms. Operating rooms that were used simultaneously for multiple operations so that supplies and electricity could be shared. A chest operation alongside a leg amputation on two patients. Doctors working on 3 hours of sleep a day. Female volunteer nurse helpers who showed up to lend a hand and stayed for weeks. All functioning with the constant sounds of sirens, shelling, explosions. Dr. Gilbert's stories began to merge into one overwhelming picture of unending horror. But also, his photographs conveyed an amazing story of Palestinian resilience in face of so much death and destruction.

Dr. Gilbert gave the audience a reprieve from his stories by playing a lullaby, sung by a Palestinian singer to her children. Again, the audience sat still, some with tears rolling down their cheeks, as the photos of Palestinians in Gaza continued on the screen.

When he finally finished speaking (he spoke for two hours), the audience clapped and a few asked questions. I felt as if the audience was shell shocked. As if we were for the first time understanding a bit of the horror that is life in Gaza. The images, the sounds, the stories all bringing to life what we had witnessed (and protested) from afar a few months ago. I watched as after the talk, person after person (most of them Arab) went up to Dr. Gilbert to shake his hand, to thank him for his service, to tell him how good it feels to hear the truth from an eyewitness. One Palestinian-American girl, perhaps eight years old, stood in front of me and told the doctor, 'You have given me hope, Dr. Gilbert. Because now I know we can make a difference. I don't have to just sit at home and cry and be sad about what is happening in my country. I can go there and help the people, be a doctor like you who saves lives.' Dr. Gilbert gave her a pin that had two flags - Norwegian and Palestinian flags intertwined - and told her he hopes to see her in a free Palestine some day."

http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/04/chicago-audience-shell-shocked-by-doctors-presentation-of-gaza-under-attack.html

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 11:01 AM

People who are trying to defend the indefensible have to resort to smear tactics, because that's all they have to work with.

On the subject of Ahmadinejad, I disagree with his Holocaust denial. And I condemn it. But everything else he said happens to be true. The Holocaust denial part of it is probably racist. The rest is not.

The people who are attempting to smear me because some of what I say coincides with some of what Ahmadinejad says are doing so because they have to try to divert attention away from their own racist and supremacist philosophies and actions. That's the only tactic available to them because they have absolutely no legitimate or moral ground to stand on.

Until such people call for Israel to be treated in the same way as Hamas (and all of the Palestinians), their racism and supremacism is obvious to anyone who does not share that racism and supremacism.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 04:16 AM

"This definitely cannot be said of the racist hate mongers in this thread who think that only Hamas should be held responsible for their crimes against humanity, but the Israeli government should be supported in theirs."

In a word, horseshit. You clearly demonstrated time and time again that the racist here is you. Backing up now changes nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: C. Ham
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 03:02 PM

When I read the following, I had to wonder if it was CarolC writing on Mudcat Cafe.

"The victorious powers [of the world wars] call themselves the conquerors of the world, while ignoring or down-treading the rights of other nations by the imposition of oppressive laws and international arrangements. Following World War Two, they resorted to making an entire nation homeless on the pretext of Jewish suffering. They sent migrants from Europe, the United States and other parts of the world in order to establish a totally racist government in the occupied Palestine. In compensation for the dire consequences of racism in Europe, they helped bring to power the most cruel and repressive, racist regime in Palestine. It is all the more regrettable that a number of Western governments and the United States have committed themselves to defending those racist perpetrators of genocide, whilst the awakened consciences and free-minded people of the world condemn aggression, brutality and the bombardment of civilians of Gaza. Today, the human community is facing a kind of racism which has tarnished the image of humanity. In the beginning of the third millennium, the word Zionism personifies racism, that falsely resorts to religion and abuses religious sentiments to hide hatred. Efforts must be made to put an end to the abuse by Zionists and their supporters of political and international means. Governments must be encouraged and supported in the fight aimed at eradicating this barbaric racism and moving towards reforming the current international mechanisms."

But no, it was just Mahmoud Ahmadinejad spewing hate yesterday at the Un Durban Review Conference in Geneva.

Thankfully, my country has a Prime Minister (Stephen Harper) and Opposition Leader (Michael Ignatieff) and the United States has a President (Barack Obama) who recognize this hatred for what it is and don't let the Mahmoud Ahmadinejads, or George Galloways, or CarolCs of this world make our policy.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 02:06 PM

And I would point out that I would be perfectly happy if the US government would just deal with both sides (both of whom people have accused of genocide) equally. This definitely cannot be said of the racist hate mongers in this thread who think that only Hamas should be held responsible for their crimes against humanity, but the Israeli government should be supported in theirs.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 02:01 PM

Genocide, from what I have been told by one of the advocates for Israel in this forum, doesn't require that vast numbers of people have already been killed. It's genocide as soon as the first person is killed, if the killing is for the purpose of doing what is defined in the United Nations thus...

[G]enocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.


Under the UN's definition (endorsed by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, what the Israeli government is doing to the Palestinians is genocide.

Now, on the subject of Hamas and its charter... the hypocrites are the smear mongers on this thread who fail to mention that not only is the US not refusing to talk with Israel because of its genocide against the Palestinians, it is actively supporting it, and even providing it with the weapons it is using to carry out that genocide and also sending US taxpayer money to help finance the apartheid settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

Whereas, the US and many Western governments have not only refused to talk with Hamas, they are even preventing the people of Gaza from being able to get basic necessities of life through their support of Israel's blockade of Gaza.

So the hypocrites (and the racist hate mongers) are the people who support Israel's genocide of the Palestinians (the above posters who are using smear tactics to try to silence me, for instance), and the ones who support the blockade of Gaza and the isolation of Hamas, even despite the fact that Hamas is responsible for a fraction of the number of Israeli civilians killed as compared to the number of Palestinian civilians Israel has killed.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 01:50 PM

Hamas's Bloody Hands

By Richard Cohen
Tuesday, April 21, 2009

Some residents of Gaza were taken from their homes and shot in the legs or feet. Some were brutally beaten, and some were simply murdered, sometimes after hideous torture. If you are expecting -- based on everything that has happened -- that the awful Israelis did this, guess again. It was Hamas, the authentic and genuine government of Gaza. Well, no one's perfect.

The information about the shootings is taken from a report issued yesterday by Human Rights Watch. It says that "Hamas security forces or masked gunmen believed to be with Hamas" executed 18 people, most of whom were accused of collaborating with Israel, sparing the expense and bother of a trial. Others were shot, maimed or beaten, not for allegedly collaborating with the enemy -- or, as is often the case, having a house or woman that a snitch covets -- but for belonging to the opposition political party, Fatah.

Many of these murders and assaults took place during Israel's recent pummeling of Gaza. Yet, as Human Rights Watch goes to some pains to document, at no time did Hamas's security forces lose control of Gaza, so the murders and maimings were not a consequence of chaos but of government policy. Whatever the case, the murders, shootings and beatings continued even after the hostilities ended. Since then, at least 14 more people have been executed extrajudicially, which is to say murdered. Some were also tortured.

You can only imagine what would happen if Israel dealt with its internal political enemies or dissenters in such a fashion. Last month, for instance, Israel got a heap of criticism and abuse when it was reported in the Israeli media that some Gaza civilians had been unjustifiably shot by Israeli soldiers. The report was widely cited, not just for its shocking allegations but also because it was supposedly indicative of the sort of place Israel has become. The government said the allegations were based on hearsay. We shall see.

No doubt the Human Rights Watch report will be ignored or dismissed in the greater cause of demonizing Israel. This has been the trend of late. No doubt, too, some will excuse Hamas's criminality as the inevitable result of Israeli actions -- the Officer Krupke School of Behavior made famous by the singing gang members of "West Side Story." But as much as some would like to criticize Israel -- and I have done so myself -- they still have a minimal obligation to acknowledge the difference in core values between Israel and its enemies.

This does not mean that Israel is above criticism. After all, it has made life unbearable for some Palestinians, supported illegal settlements in the West Bank, been too harsh in squeezing Gaza, and, maybe most important, it ought to get out of the West Bank -- for reasons of justice and for its own sake. Still, it remains unimaginable that Israel would murder its domestic critics or silence dissent with the occasional kneecapping. These are the tactics of thugs.

Read the Hamas charter. It is not some uplifting cry of a downtrodden people seeking its freedom but a repellent anti-Semitic screed. It sees the Jews behind every major world event since the storming of the Bastille: "They were behind the French revolution, the communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions . . . for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests." The Rotary? The Lions? Why not Welcome Wagon?

When Israelis talk of the practical difficulties of pulling out of the West Bank, they mean the likelihood that Hamas will oust Fatah and launch rockets into Israel. They are both concerned and appalled by a Hamas charter that, in part, reads like it could have been written by Hitler. Withdrawal is necessary and right, but it cannot be done naively and without the participation of the United States. It's going to take American peacekeepers. It is that simple. No Israeli can trust Hamas to keep the peace.

Human Rights Watch is to be commended. It does not have one standard for Israel and another for Hamas, Hezbollah or the other despotic regimes of the Arab world. That is more than can be said, though, for critics who vilify Israel, romanticize Hamas and clearly have never had the inexpressible pleasure of living in a place where a chance remark can get your legs riddled with lead. Say what you will, but that place could never be Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: C. Ham
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 08:03 AM

She's not merely an artisan of duplicity. She does Mahmoud Ahmadinejad proud with her complete solidarity with his vision.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 05:47 AM

You speak about genocide yet ignore the Hamas charter. You are an artisan of duplicity. No more--no less.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 05:24 AM

The palestinian population is exploding.
Something like half the people are under 25.
How does that equate to a genocide?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 09:43 PM

Anyway, since we doing the Hitler comparisons, let's try this one on for size. I'm speaking out against genocide. That makes me the opposite of Hitler. The person who is trying to silence me using slimy smear tactics is trying to silence people who speak out against genocide, and that's the one (between the two of us) who is carrying on Hitler's work.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 09:22 PM

I would say that the tradition is being carried on by the people who are committing genocide today, and that would be the government of Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Peace
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 03:22 PM

Hitler was a master at editing, picking and choosing. Lovely to see the tradition being carried on in the name of 'whatever the fuck' is on the table at any given time.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 03:19 PM

This part right here...

"The rabbinate brought in a lot of booklets and articles, and ... their message was very clear: We are the Jewish people, we came to this land by a miracle, God brought us back to this land and now we need to fight to expel the gentiles who are interfering with our conquest of this holy land"


That makes it genocide.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 02:56 PM

Not Just A Slogan On A T-shirt


Some selections...

"[T]wo-thirds of the 621 children killed at checkpoints, in the street, on the way to school, in their homes, died from small arms fire, directed in over half of cases to the head, neck and chest - the sniper's wound".

- Dr Derek Summerfield, reporting on the results of a four-year field study in the occupied Palestinian Territories for the British Medical Journal. (cite)

Photo: T-shirt printed for members of an IDF elite unit who had completed sniper training, reads "The smaller they are - The harder it is!".
Source: Dead Palestinian babies and bombed mosques - IDF fashion 2009 (Ha'aretz); via Mondoweiss.

"The Smaller They Are, The Harder It Is!" [Quote]


Sixteen-year-old Asma Mughayer (back row, left, in this family photo from the Sydney Morning Herald) and her thirteen-year-old brother, Ahmed (front row, left) were shot dead while hanging out laundry on the roof of their home in Rafah, on the morning that the IDF launched a major attack ("Operation Rainbow") on the Tel al-Sultan refugee camp where they lived, on 18 May 2004.

The IDF said of their deaths: "A preliminary investigation indicates they were killed by a bomb intended to be used against soldiers. It was set outside a building by Palestinians to hit an Israeli vehicle". But the Mughayer family said that the children had not been killed by a bomb, but shot by an Israeli sniper, operating out of a neighboring building.

An Australian journalist visited the Mughayer house, and found no signs of an explosion there, though he did find bullet holes on the roof, made by bullets which seemed to have been fired from the neighboring building. He visited the neighboring building, and found that its occupants had been held prisoner by an Israeli sniper team that had operated out of their house on the morning that Asma and Ahmed were killed, and left behind MRE wrappers and ammunition boxes (labelled in Hebrew) .

Mughayer2 British journalists who examined the children's bodies at the morgue (AP Photo - Kevin Frayer) found no signs of injuries except for a single bullet hole through the head.

After the British and Australian journalists published their findings, the IDF announced it would hold an internal investigation into the death of the Mughayer siblings. But six months later, while world attention was distracted by a new, large-scale invasion of the Gaza Strip refugee camps, the IDF quietly dropped its investigation.

The following year, some of the soldiers who took part in Operation Rainbow gave their testimonies to the Breaking the Silence exhibition. They testified that they had killed innocent Palestinian civilians, under orders from their superiors to kill any Palestinian they encountered, armed or not. They were concerned, in retrospect, that they were guilty of carrying out illegal orders, and one of them knew what had happened in the specific case of Asma and Ahmed Mughayer, who the IDF assured us were blown up by a Palestinian bomb:

According to Rafi, an officer in the Shaldag, an elite unit connected to the air force, the whole mission was about revenge. "The commanders said kill as many people as possible," he said.

He and his men were ordered to shoot anyone who appeared to be touching the ground, as if they might be placing a roadside bomb, or anyone seen on a roof or a balcony, as if they might be observing Israeli forces for military reasons, regardless of whether they were armed.

Asma Moghayyer, 16, and her brother Ahmed, 13, were shot as they went to collect clothes from a rooftop washing line. The Israeli army insisted the children had been blown up by a roadside bomb. However, journalists visiting the morgue saw only single bullet wounds to the head.

The truth, said Rafi, was that they were shot by an Israeli soldier following clear orders to shoot anyone on a roof regardless of their role in the conflict.

Rafi says that his overriding impression of the operation was "chaos" and the "indiscriminate use of force". "Gaza was considered a playground for sharpshooters."

-- Israeli Soldiers Tell of Indiscriminate Killings by Army and a Culture of Impunity by Conal Urquhart; 6 Sept 2005.


Photo: T-shirt printed for members of an IDF elite unit who had completed sniper training, reads "The smaller they are - The harder it is!".

Source: Dead Palestinian babies and bombed mosques - IDF fashion 2009 (Ha'aretz); via Mondoweiss.

"The Smaller They Are, The Harder It Is!" [3]


Till we confirm the kill
"Another paediatrician and another baker
Got a bullet in the face from a paratroopers unit
All day we search houses and kill children"

- Extract from a song of an Israeli paratroopers' unit that participated in Operation Calm Waters in Nablus, beginning of 2004.

On 16 September 2005, the Israeli newspaper Yediot Ahronot published an interview with the commander of the IDF paratroopers unit that came up with that song. "Commander R" described the extraordinarily permissive open-fire rules under which his unit operated when they were based in Nablus, which on some nights mandated the killing of any Palestinian who happened to be seen on the street:
"My team killed six innocent people, or probably innocent," says "R", a commander in an elite paratroopers' unit. "We would joke about it and give them code names: the baker, the woman, the child, the old man, the drummer. Some of them by mistake, but as I see it, they were simply executed on illegal orders.

"There were many nights on which we received orders that whoever we see on the street between two and four in the morning is sentenced to death [dino mavet]. Those were the exact words..."

"The Baker, whose death provided such a source of amusement for the Israeli soldiers who killed him was a 25-year-old Palestinian named Ala Adin Masud Adawiya. He was walking to his job at the a-Silawi Bakery in Nablus at about 3:00am on 18 December 2003 when he was shot once by an IDF sniper, then eight more times from close range as he lay wounded on the ground by IDF soldiers who arrived on the scene in a Jeep to "confirm the kill". Adawiya was shot because, unbeknown to him, he was walking to work on one of the nights when soldier R's paratroop unit had received orders that whoever we see on the street between two and four in the morning is sentenced to death...

Of the six codenames Commander R's unit assigned to the people they killed, "The Baker" is the easiest to identify, and the circumstances of his death are easiest to reconstruct, largely because the unusual brutality of his death attracted the attention of human rights groups and international journalists. He was killed in an IDF operation called Calm Waters, which ran from 16 December 2003 to 6 January 2004, the purpose of which was ostensibly to capture one wanted man, Naif Sharekh. Nineteen Palestinians were killed in the course of the operation, fifteen of them (including Adawiya) were unarmed civilians, six of them were children. There were indications that two of the dead (again, including Adawiya) had been killed execution style when they were already wounded, and this is what prompted journalists and civil rights groups to investigate the deaths. It is because of their involvement that we know much more about the death of Ala Adawiya than we do about most Palestinians killed by the IDF.

In addition to that of the paratrooper R, who was involved with the sniper team that fired the first shot, eyewitness testimony is available from a second IDF soldier who watched the killing from the house opposite the sniper's nest; also from a 50-year-old Palestinian woman, As'ad Hanun, who lived in the house in front of which Ala Adawiya was killed; and from Adnan Soso, the ambulance driver who was summoned after the first shot was fired. These last three witnesses all saw the "confirmation of kill" procedure carried out.

The incident began when the IDF sniper team used the "worm procedure" to tunnel their way undetected to the house they intended to use as their sniper position. This is the trail they left behind the through neighboring houses when they left the following morning:

Soldier R testifies:
The next man was the baker. We entered the Old City in Nablus, and as usual the open-fire regulations were that every man walking on the street at night is sentenced to death...

That night we took over a house in an excellent position, and about four in the morning the sharpshooters' position identified a man walking with a bag. I saw him on Jami'at al-Kabir Street with the bag in his hand. I went down to report, and the sniper, a friend of mine, was on duty. I reported to the commander who reports to the company commander. The order was "take him down." And so a man fell, 70 metres from his house.

That shot wounded Ala Adawiya in the chest, and woke As'ad Hanun, who called an ambulance. The ambulance arrived within three minutes, at which point Adawiya was still conscious, sitting up, and calling out that he was hurt. A jeep drew up from the nearby IDF command post, and stopped a few metres from where Ala Adawiya was sitting. Over the course of the next several minutes, the soldiers inside fired 8-10 individual shots at Adawiya, then dropped two grenades on the body, to ensure he was dead.

Having checked the contents of Adawiya's bag, which was found to contain nothing more dangerous than some floured-dusted clothing and pita bread, the soldiers permitted Adnan Soso to remove the body to Rafidia Hospital. Upon arrival, it was examined by Dr Samir Abu Zarour, who reported that Ala Adawiya had been shot between eight and 10 times, including twice in the face and once in the testicles, and had a series of fragmentation wounds in his legs.

Ala Adawiya's only crime was that he was a Palestinian whose job required him to arrive at work very early in the morning, and on the way to that job he happened to unknowingly cross the path of an IDF unit under orders to kill anyone they saw. But Soldier R said in conclusion: This thing was never investigated. The regiment commander cheers us up. 'Listen guys, don't be demoralised. This man wasn't just walking around innocently.' Of course he didn't have any substantive information - 'Be assured that anyone walking round the Casbah at that hour is no friend of Zion. He probably had a terrorist agenda, and you performed a good job'...

Further information on the killing of Ala Adawiya is available here.

Photo: T-shirt printed for members of the IDF's Haruv Battalion, reads: "We Won't Chill Till We Confirm The Kill".

Source (via Mondoweiss): Dead Palestinian babies and bombed mosques - IDF fashion 2009 (Ha'aretz):

"We Won't Chill Till We Confirm The Kill" [3]


No one deluded himself that the Palestinian Ministry of Culture, which takes up five of the eight floors of a new building in the center of El Bireh, would be spared the fate of other Palestinian Authority offices in Ramallah and other cities - that is, the nearly total destruction of its contents and particularly its high-tech equipment.

After all, Israel Defense Forces troops were deployed in the building for about a month...

On the evening of Wednesday, May 1, when the siege on Arafat's headquarters was lifted and the armored vehicles and the tanks had rumbled out, the executives and officials of the ministry who had rushed to the site did not expect to find the building the way they had left it.

Employees of the local radio and television station, Amwaj, also hastened to the scene, as did the employees of the local television channel, Istiqlal, which take up three stories of the building.

But what awaited them was beyond all their fears, and also shocked representatives and cultural attaches of foreign consulates, who toured the site the next day.

In other offices, all the high-tech and electronic equipment had been wrecked or had vanished - computers, photocopiers, cameras, scanners, hard disks, editing equipment worth thousands of dollars, television sets. The broadcast antenna on top of the building was destroyed.

Telephone sets vanished. A collection of Palestinian art objects (mostly hand embroideries) disappeared. Perhaps it was buried under the piles of documents and furniture, perhaps it had been spirited away. Furniture was dragged from place to place, broken by soldiers, piled up. Gas stoves for heating were overturned and thrown on heaps of scattered papers, discarded books, broken diskettes and discs and smashed windowpanes.

In the department for the encouragement of children's art, the soldiers had dirtied all the walls with gouache paints they found there and destroyed the children's paintings that hung there.

In every room of the various departments - literature, film, culture for children and youth books, discs, pamphlets and documents were piled up, soiled with urine and excrement.

There are two toilets on every floor, but the soldiers urinated and defecated everywhere else in the building, in several rooms of which they had lived for about a month. They did their business on the floors, in emptied flowerpots, even in drawers they had pulled out of desks.

They defecated into plastic bags, and these were scattered in several places. Some of them had burst. Someone even managed to defecate into a photocopier.

The soldiers urinated into empty mineral water bottles. These were scattered by the dozen in all the rooms of the building, in cardboard boxes, among the piles of rubbish and rubble, on desks, under desks, next to the furniture the solders had smashed, among the children's books that had been thrown down.

Some of the bottles had opened and the yellow liquid had spilled and left its stain. It was especially difficult to enter two floors of the building because of the pungent stench of feces and urine. Soiled toilet paper was also scattered everywhere.

In some of the rooms, not far from the heaps of feces and the toilet paper, remains of rotting food were scattered. In one corner, in the room in which someone had defecated into a drawer, full cartons of fruits and vegetables had been left behind. The toilets were left overflowing with bottles filled with urine, feces and toilet paper.

Relative to other places, the soldiers did not leave behind them many sayings scrawled on the walls.

Here and there was the candelabrum symbols of Israel, stars of David, praises for the Jerusalem Betar soccer team.

Someone had forgotten to take his dog tag with him. His name is recorded in the newspaper's editorial offices.

Now the Palestinian Ministry of Culture is considering leaving the building the way it is. A memorial.

-- Someone even managed to defecate into the photocopier, by Amira Hass; Ha'aretz, 6 May 2002. (h/t Angry Arab)

"If You Believe It Can Be Fixed, Then Believe It Can Be Destroyed!" [3]


A mother and son, both American citizens, were savagely beaten last week by Israeli security at the Israeli entry point from Jordan: Allenby Bridge. The victims were 47 year old Tina Hannouneh and her 17 year old son...

Hannouneh, who was born in the West Bank, moved to Arizona in 1986, where she now works as banker. She and her son Michael had come to Palestine, on a holiday, to visit friends and family. The incident occurred because 17 year old Michael, who suffers form a chronic heart condition, was listening to his i-pod.

Tina Hannouneh1

Tina underwent surgery last week in Beit Jala. Afterwards, she spoke to PNN about her ordeal:

"We were entering through security when a guy dressed as a civilian approached Michael. He grabbed Michael's neck with his right hand and reached for the i-pod with his left hand, shouting `give me that' in Arabic."

Michael, who has spent most of his life in the US, does not speak or understand Arabic. He was unaware that the man choking him was a security officer, and refused to give him the mp3 player. Hannouneh added, "The security officer was not wearing a uniform. My son couldn't have recognized him as army or police. He payed $400 for that i-pod, he's not just going to give it to anybody."

Confused and bewildered about what was happening, Michael held on to his i-pod. It was then that the officer became violent. Hannouneh explained that "the guy punched him, dropped him to the ground, and started banging his head against on the floor." She continued, "He shouted in Arabic `you can't say no to a police officer.'"

After trying to protect her son, the officer turned on Hannouneh. She commented, "As hard as he could he hit my face. I fell to the floor and hit my head on the metal bar in the security fence. I have two stitches and my nose is really smashed. My shirt and my pants were covered in blood".

Tina Hannouneh2

The terrorized family's ordeal only came to an end when other officials realized they were American. Like all Palestinians, Hannouneh and her son were victims of institutional racism at the heart of the Israeli security service. Hannouneh told PNN, "They did this to me because of the color of my skin, because I'm Palestinian". She continued, "I can't even travel through the checkpoint and complain to the US Consulate in Jerusalem because I am Palestinian. It's humiliating".

Adi Dagan, from Machsom Watch, an Israeli human rights organization that monitors checkpoints, told PNN: "To them she is just a Palestinian. Palestinians are without protection. In 2004 we documented 100 complaints of violence and we only received about 10 responses, sometimes soldiers are punished, but often nothing happens. This is what ordinary Palestinians go through everyday."

-- American family brutally assaulted at Israeli checkpoint; PNN, 17 Jul 06. (via After Downing Street).

"Let Every Arab Mother Know That Her Son's Fate Is In My Hands!" [3]


New widower Shukri al-Makadama lies on the floor of his brother's house, lighting cigarette after cigarette. His neck is encased in plaster, due to a possible fractured vertebra caused by a wall falling on top of him. He mourns his dead wife and moans in pain.

Staring at the ceiling, he quietly describes - in fluent Hebrew, from all the years he worked in Tel Aviv - the events of that terrible night when the Israel Defense Forces destroyed his house and his world, and killed his wife - Noha al-Makadama, a mother of 10, who was in her ninth month of pregnancy.

Late one night last week, the army came to demolish the house of the family of teenage terrorist Sami Abdel Salam, who was shot dead on February 9 after he and several others started shooting at IDF soldiers in the El Bureij refugee camp in Gaza. In the process, they also demolished the homes of seven other families - without warning and while the residents were inside. Before she lost consciousness, Noha, who was due to give birth any day, managed to shout to her husband to protect the children and to hand him the small purse that held the money she was saving for a washing machine. He shows us the blue purse, still full of coins.

Noha was buried alive under the rubble of her house last Monday, and her unborn child died with her. Brigadier General Gadi Shemani, the Gaza division commander, said the next day that the IDF has "no evidence" of the woman's death and thereby exempted himself and his soldiers from any responsibility for the despicable killing. Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz said something similar and just as outrageous at the cabinet meeting. So, as a service to the defense minister and the division commander, the full story of the killing of Noha al-Makadama and her unborn child, crushed to death when their home was demolished by the IDF, is hereby presented�

-- 'Save the children, Shukri!', by Gideon Levy; Ha'aretz, 12 Mar 2003.


My army killed a woman in her ninth month of pregnancy. I know that, her husband knows that, her brother knows that, her kids know that, the hospital team at Dir-El- Balakh knows that, those who dug her grave and covered it know that.

Only my army does not know. Brigadier General Gadi Shamani, the man in charge of the Gaza Strip, notified us publicly that "evidence was not found" for the Palestinian claim.

"Evidence was not found..." What a perfect bureaucratic phrasing. An under-clerk in the customs office would not have phrased it better. Probably Reduction Form AC/6416, for the sum of 1 FCP (Fetus Carrying Palestinian) was not filled out properly.

Following, Mister Brigadier General, please find enclosed the evidence: The name of the buried was Nuha Al-Makadma, and she was 33 at the time of her death. Nuha, RIP, was buried alive in her house, in front of her husband and children.

You could easily identify the house; this is the ruin next to the other ruin that your soldiers demolished deliberately. Her husband's name, by the way, is Shukri, and for an unknown reason he has been very sad lately. Perhaps because he saw his wife's body at the hospital, namely - found the evidence to account for the fact that she is dead. The fetus in her womb died with her (attached Enemy-Fetus Termination form in three copies).

A dead fetus is a very unpleasant thing from the explanatory aspect. Therefore, Mister Brigadier General, it is worthwhile for you to quickly find evidence that Nuha's womb was indeed a munitions cache, in which a potential Sha'hid was hidden, caught attached with his navel to a bleeding cord. There is no doubt that the majority of the Israeli people will eagerly buy the evidence brought forth. They are good at that.

-- Evidence Hereby Submitted, by B. Michael; Yediot Ahronot, 7 March 2003. (link)


Photo: A sharpshooter's T-shirt printed for members of the Shaked Battalion of the IDF's Givati Infantry Brigade. The design depicts a pregnant Palestinian woman with a bull's-eye superimposed on her belly, with the slogan, in English, "1 shot, 2 kills.".

Source: Dead Palestinian babies and bombed mosques - IDF fashion 2009 (Ha'aretz); via Mondoweiss.

"One Shot - Two Kills" [1]


Aviv: "I am squad commander of a company that is still in training, from the Givati Brigade. We went into a neighborhood in the southern part of Gaza City. Altogether, this is a special experience. In the course of the training, you wait for the day you will go into Gaza, and in the end it isn't really like they say it is. It's more like, you come, you take over a house, you kick the tenants out and you move in. We stayed in a house for something like a week.

"Toward the end of the operation there was a plan to go into a very densely populated area inside Gaza City itself. In the briefings they started to talk to us about orders for opening fire inside the city, because as you know they used a huge amount of firepower and killed a huge number of people along the way, so that we wouldn't get hurt and they wouldn't fire on us.

"At first the specified action was to go into a house. We were supposed to go in with an armored personnel carrier called an Achzarit [literally, Cruel] to burst through the lower door, to start shooting inside and then ... I call this murder ... in effect, we were supposed to go up floor by floor, and any person we identified - we were supposed to shoot. I initially asked myself: Where is the logic in this?

"From above they said it was permissible, because anyone who remained in the sector and inside Gaza City was in effect condemned, a terrorist, because they hadn't fled. I didn't really understand: On the one hand they don't really have anywhere to flee to, but on the other hand they're telling us they hadn't fled so it's their fault ... This also scared me a bit. I tried to exert some influence, insofar as is possible from within my subordinate position, to change this. In the end the specification involved going into a house, operating megaphones and telling [the tenants]: 'Come on, everyone get out, you have five minutes, leave the house, anyone who doesn't get out gets killed.'

"I went to our soldiers and said, 'The order has changed. We go into the house, they have five minutes to escape, we check each person who goes out individually to see that he has no weapons, and then we start going into the house floor by floor to clean it out ... This means going into the house, opening fire at everything that moves , throwing a grenade, all those things. And then there was a very annoying moment. One of my soldiers came to me and asked, 'Why?' I said, 'What isn't clear? We don't want to kill innocent civilians.' He goes, 'Yeah? Anyone who's in there is a terrorist, that's a known fact.' I said, 'Do you think the people there will really run away? No one will run away.' He says, 'That's clear,' and then his buddies join in: 'We need to murder any person who's in there. Yeah, any person who's in Gaza is a terrorist,' and all the other things that they stuff our heads with, in the media.

"And then I try to explain to the guy that not everyone who is in there is a terrorist, and that after he kills, say, three children and four mothers, we'll go upstairs and kill another 20 or so people. And in the end it turns out that [there are] eight floors times five apartments on a floor - something like a minimum of 40 or 50 families that you murder. I tried to explain why we had to let them leave, and only then go into the houses. It didn't really help. This is really frustrating, to see that they understand that inside Gaza you are allowed to do anything you want, to break down doors of houses for no reason other than it's cool.

"You do not get the impression from the officers that there is any logic to it, but they won't say anything. To write 'death to the Arabs' on the walls, to take family pictures and spit on them, just because you can. I think this is the main thing in understanding how much the IDF has fallen in the realm of ethics, really. It's what I'll remember the most."

"One of our officers, a company commander, saw someone coming on some road, a woman, an old woman. She was walking along pretty far away, but close enough so you could take out someone you saw there. If she were suspicious, not suspicious - I don't know. In the end, he sent people up to the roof, to take her out with their weapons. From the description of this story, I simply felt it was murder in cold blood."

Zamir: "I don't understand. Why did he shoot her?"

Aviv: "That's what is so nice, supposedly, about Gaza: You see a person on a road, walking along a path. He doesn't have to be with a weapon, you don't have to identify him with anything and you can just shoot him. With us it was an old woman, on whom I didn't see any weapon. The order was to take the person out, that woman, the moment you see her."

...

Ram: "What I do remember in particular at the beginning is the feeling of almost a religious mission. My sergeant is a student at a hesder yeshiva [a program that combines religious study and military service]. Before we went in, he assembled the whole platoon and led the prayer for those going into battle. A brigade rabbi was there, who afterward came into Gaza and went around patting us on the shoulder and encouraging us, and praying with people. And also when we were inside they sent in those booklets, full of Psalms, a ton of Psalms. I think that at least in the house I was in for a week, we could have filled a room with the Psalms they sent us, and other booklets like that.

"There was a huge gap between what the Education Corps sent out and what the IDF rabbinate sent out. The Education Corps published a pamphlet for commanders - something about the history of Israel's fighting in Gaza from 1948 to the present. The rabbinate brought in a lot of booklets and articles, and ... their message was very clear: We are the Jewish people, we came to this land by a miracle, God brought us back to this land and now we need to fight to expel the gentiles who are interfering with our conquest of this holy land. This was the main message, and the whole sense many soldiers had in this operation was of a religious war. From my position as a commander and 'explainer,' I attempted to talk about the politics - the streams in Palestinian society, about how not everyone who is in Gaza is Hamas, and not every inhabitant wants to vanquish us. I wanted to explain to the soldiers that this war is not a war for the sanctification of the holy name, but rather one to stop the Qassams."

    -- Shooting and Crying by Amos Harel; Ha'aretz, 20 Mar 2009 (Israeli soldiers who served in the Israeli attack on Gaza, Dec 2008-Jan 2009 discuss their experiences).

Photo: T-shirt printed in January 2009 for members of the "Night Predators" demolitions platoon from Battalion 13 of the IDF's Golani Brigade. T-shirt depicts a devil detonating a charge that destroys a mosque. An inscription above it says, "Only God forgives."

Source: Dead Palestinian babies and bombed mosques - IDF fashion 2009 (Ha'aretz); via Mondoweiss.

"Only God Forgives"

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Barry Finn
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 02:53 PM

The "cut & paste" was to long to bother with

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 01:32 PM

Report: Hamas killed, maimed dozens of opponents
         

Karin Laub, Associated Press Writer – Mon Apr 20, 9:58 am ET

RAMALLAH, West Bank – Hamas directed gunmen to eliminate political opponents and suspected collaborators under the cover of Israel's military offensive in Gaza, killing 32 people and wounding dozens in such attacks since December, an international human rights group said Monday.

The New York-based Human Rights Watch urged Gaza's Hamas rulers to halt what it described as a pattern of arbitrary arrests, torture and summary executions by the Islamic militant group.

Human Rights Watch portrayed the attacks as the worst outbreak of internal violence since Hamas violently seized control of Gaza in June 2007 and expelled rivals in the more moderate Fatah movement of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who now controls only the West Bank.

Such practices are aimed, in part, at quashing dissent in Gaza and make a mockery of Hamas' claim it upholds the law, the group said.

During the war, "Hamas authorities ... took extraordinary steps to control, intimidate, punish and at times eliminate their internal political rivals as well as persons suspected of collaborating with Israel," the report said.

Eighteen Palestinians were killed by Hamas-linked gunmen during the three-week war, which ended Jan. 18, and 14 others were killed afterward, the report said. In addition, 49 Gazans were shot in the legs by masked gunmen between Dec. 28 and Jan. 31, and 73 had their arms or legs broken, the report said, citing a rights group linked to Abbas.

Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum dismissed the Human Rights Watch report as unbalanced. He said Hamas was willing to investigate any complaints, and denied the group is going after political opponents.

He said suspected collaborators with Israel who fled Gaza's central prison after it was destroyed in Israeli bombing raids in December were killed by relatives of people they had harmed, not by security forces.

Other international and Palestinian human rights organizations have provided similar accounts of shootings and beatings. Fatah has also said 14 of its members in Gaza were killed by Hamas during the Israeli offensive and that more than 160 were shot in the arms or legs or beaten.

Human Rights Watch said repressive measures are also on the rise in the Abbas-controlled West Bank.

Abbas' security forces have been cracking down on Hamas in the West Bank since the militants seized Gaza. Hamas detainees in West Bank prisons have complained of mistreatment, including beatings and being tied up in painful positions. In January and February, one detainee died in custody, and 31 complained of mistreatment, Human Rights Watch said.

The report about the Gaza abuses is based on interviews with witnesses and victims, as well as reports by Palestinian human rights groups, Human Rights Watch said.

It reviewed killings and shootings since Dec. 27, when Israel launched its Gaza offensive, meant to weaken Hamas and halt rocket attacks from Gaza on Israel.

Many of the assailants were members of Hamas' security forces, while others were masked men with suspected ties to Hamas or other militant groups, said Fred Abrahams, a researcher for Human Rights Watch.

"Hamas is the undisputed political and security leader of Gaza, so even if there were gunmen from other groups (involved in attacks), they are operating with the approval of Hamas," he said.

Hamas has begun investigations into four deaths, dismissing and detaining members of the security forces involved in two killings, said Bill Van Esveld, another Human Rights Watch researcher.

"What we have not seen is accountability for (the killing of) collaborators and Fatah guys getting shot in the legs," he said.

In a recent case under investigation, gunmen wearing headbands of Hamas' military wing, Izzedine al-Qassam, reportedly opened fire Thursday on three cousins loyal to Abbas' Fatah movement in the Gaza town of Jebaliya.

The three men were each hit by several bullets in the legs and remain hospitalized, the Gaza-based Palestinian Center for Human Rights said.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Mar 09 - 03:57 PM


Gaza war crimes investigation - Civilians, medics and investigators talk to the Guardian about allegations of war crimes during Israel's 23-day campaign in Gaza

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Mar 09 - 08:38 AM

"You can't sit in the judge's seat when you are standing in the dock."

A fairly convincing confirmation of this statement from the Irish Times letter column this morning
Jim Carroll

Israeli killings of civilians
Madam, - Nadav Cohen of the Israeli Embassy (March 14th) is being disingenuous or economical with the truth when he writes that the bombing of a UN compound in Qana in 1996 was a "tragic accidental killing" and that Hizbullah was using the civilians as human shields.
On the day of the bombing, April 18th, there were several hundred civilians - mostly women, children and old people from surrounding towns and villages -taking refuge in the compound, which was a long-established headquarters for the UN's observer force Unifil.
The bombing of the compound by Israeli artillery resulted in the deaths of 106 civilians and serious injuries to scores more, as well as four Fijian peacekeepers. Israel immediately claimed the attack was "accidental" and "an unfortunate mistake", blaming Hizbullah for using the compound as a shield, just as Mr Cohen claims.
The UN secretary general at the
time, Boutros Boutros Ghali, immediately commissioned a report carried out by Maj Gen Von Kappen. The report documented clearly, despite repeated Israeli denials, the presence of one remotely piloted vehicle (a drone) and two Israeli helicopters in the immediate area before, during and after the bombing. The report concluded: "It is unlikely that the shelling of the United Nations compound was the result of gross technical and/or procedural errors. "
Human Rights Watch concluded, in its investigation: "The decision of those who planned the attack to choose a mix of high-explosive artillery shells that included deadly anti-personnel shells designed to maximize injuries on the ground violated a key principle of international humanitarian law". And Amnesty International reported: "The IDF intentionally targeted the UN compound".
-Yours, etc,
TOMAS McBRIDE, Letterkenny, Co Donegal.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel Moves in.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 09 - 02:31 PM

"Israel investigates" the same way the British government investigated after Bloody Sunday... Or the Americans when they shot down an Iranian airliner and killed hundreds.

I'm sure Hamas are quite as capable of doing a similar "investigation" into the stuff their lads have been doing, and producing a similar whitewash.

You can't sit in the judge's seat when you are standing in the dock.