Origins: Well Below the Valley/Maid & Palmer

Subject: RE: Origins: Well below the valley - discuss!
From: MAG
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 07:18 PM

along with Prince Heathen and Mill o' Tifty's Annie, this is a song I think needw to be preserved, but can't bear to listen to --

Subject: RE: Origins: Well below the valley - discuss!
From: Lighter
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 07:41 PM

Nicely done, Richie.

Subject: RE: Origins: Well below the valley - discuss!
From: MartinRyan
Date: 02 Apr 12 - 09:13 AM

John Reilly singing "The Well below.."

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Well below the valley - discuss!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 10:56 PM

Hello!
I started looking for some information about this old song after watching the "Magdalene Sisters" film and I found your discussion, which is very interesting.
I am from Greece and I don't have some information about this old song, but I surprisingly realized that it reminds me much of a Greek folk song. This song is called Menousis and it is a story about a murder. Three friends were drinking and discussing about beautiful women and one of them insisted that he had met his friend's Menousis' young wife who was in the well to take some water. The man told his friends that he asked her to wash his towel with the well's water -asking a young woman for "a favor" was at least something like sexual harassment, especially a young married woman. He insisted that he knew her very well, that he knew what she was wearing under her clothes etc. In the end, the woman is being murdered by her drunk husband, because "she acted like a whore".
Also, I read about the symbolism, the well is a very common element in the folk songs of Europe, because it used to be the only place that the women were alone and so the men could come closer to them. Also,the lily is the flower of the virgins, so maybe it has a connection with the innocence of the young girl.

Subject: RE: Origins: Well below the valley - discuss!
From: Gutcher
Date: 07 Oct 17 - 02:30 PM

Anent the meaning for a butting stone. It appears that it was Child who stated that this was a stepping stone. Stepping stones were usually in burns or rivers, not the place to bury a childs body.
I would suggest that the stone so called would be a knocking stone. most
rural habitations and farms having such a stone.

Mention is made of the plantations in regards to Moran. In Leitrim we find Hamilton Castle and its adjoining town Manorhamilton, The castle having been built in the early 1630s by a relative of Hamilton of Hamilton/Montgomery fame? noted for their plantation of Antrim et al in 1606.

On another subject it is noted that Child 66 mentions a Lord Ingram.
For the past 65 years I have been looking for a place called Ingram the locale of a song I sing called the "Ingram Servant Lass". Anyone have any
notion of where to find this place?

Subject: RE: Origins: Well below the valley - discuss!
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Oct 17 - 04:34 PM

Does this fit?:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingram,_Northumberland

Subject: RE: Origins: Well below the valley - discuss!
From: Gutcher
Date: 07 Oct 17 - 06:29 PM

Thanks Lighter---never thought to look south of the border as the song is in broad Scots with words in it that have almost died out here.

The only other clue lies in the first line of the first verse---now if there be a Barony Road in or near the Northumberland Village we will have struck gold.


Incidentally this is one of those floating country songs that do not appear in any of the collections, as far as I can see.

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I think I'm going to close this thread. It's a real Spam magnet. Please continue in this thread (click).
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-