Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!

Subject: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 10:09 AM

Picked up this CD yesterday, from one of those '3 for a fiver' buckets at the supermarket checkout. You know how it goes, you see one you actually want and then scrabble to find two others.

Well one of these that I chanced it with was something called "Celtic Heart, Celtic Women". Yeah I know, what was I thinking... Should have known better, but it was a mad panic purchase. And yesterdays roast was already being beeped, and packed solo by an annoyed bf.

So anyway, I put it on today, and guess what, it's utterly atrocious... Really bad, I mean so bad it hurts. So bad it knots your intestines into pretty little bows. That mystical echoe, those soothing panpipes, the 'funky' synthasised beat, the pretty trilling, the excessive and badly executed vocal ornamentation. Aaaaaaaaaagh!

This is a subject that's been done before no doubt. But really, someone should have warned me. What would you submit as the worst folk musical car-crash style purchase you've ever made? Just so I know in future...

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 10:30 AM

Bought an LP [remember them?] called Let's Go Folksy, by The Charleston Trio.

RUBBISH !!!

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 10:33 AM

The style you describe so well seems to have been inspired largely by the pop stylings of Enya and the later Clannad. In tiny doses and taken for what it is (pop music for a pop audience utterly unfamiliar with trad), it can be enjoyable. Otherwise - Aaaaaaaaaagh!, as you say.

Think twice about buying anything that plays up the word "Celtic" rather than something more specific like "Irish," especially if it also plays up the word "Woman."

I recently watched a TV special by the supergroup Celtic Woman. Plenty of talent, but no relationship to traditional music except for the use of two or three songs in thoroughly pop settings. The network commentators raved about the "real Celtic tradition" presented by the singers and their large back-up orchestra. (Pixie violinist Mairead Nesbitt, of Lord of the Dance fame, was great - as usual - when she played reels with the flair that comes from long Classical training. Actual trad fiddlers don't leap around on tiptoe when they play, however: a minor point.)

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 10:35 AM

Lol!

Let's Go Folksy? Lovely..
I'm already laughing at the title. Somehow so 'evocative'

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 10:35 AM

"the later Clannad"

I thought Clannad preceded Enya?

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 10:37 AM

I think he means that later Clannad was the poppy stuff - early Clannad was relatively traditional.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 10:45 AM

Oh, I know, Rosie!

Did she sing in a wispy, babyish manner? Only two kinds of female voice are permitted in commercial Celtic. One is wispy and babyish, the other is hard and thin. Hard and thin seems unlikely, given the panpipes.

Does she put the same ornaments in the same place on every repeat?

Why do I even ask, right?

However, a CD like that might provide a good song for you to sing yourself. It might have something worth learning and doing right.

If not, you can hang it in the garden to scare critters that are after your tomatoes or berries.
============
A couple years ago I threw out a CD with a name such as 'Celtic Legends'. It probably came from a display in the greeting-card section of a Target store. (It was a gift.)

The music itself was good, but they put the very same ornaments in the very same place every time (and there were many times)that they played the same phrase with the same instruments.

I told myself not to let it get to me, but finally I decided it wasn't worth the strain, and out it went.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 10:50 AM

Ah, I see what you mean.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 10:53 AM

Rogues Gallery, volumes 1 and 2?

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 10:59 AM

Wispy female voices appear to be in vogue at the moment, I hate them.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 11:21 AM

An ultra cheapo British label called Hallmark once marketed an ultra cheapo series of "ethnic music" releases. The problem was that the ones I checked sounded just like extremely anodine forms of new wave music. Never knew they played anything like that in Africa!

Then there was a perfectly good Otis Spann LP, on Decca if I remember correctly, onto which some clown had dubbed awful and awfully inapproriate brass and reed backings.

Then there was the EP which Gael Linn released of Labhrás Draper. Surpassed in awfulness only by their EP of Albert Fry.

But the turkey, the real deal Christmas butterball of all eternity has to be an LP from Northern Ireland. I've long forgotten the title but it came out on a label called Cuhullain and consisted of some of the worst republican songs and the worst republican singing I ever could have imagined. These were interspersed by appallingly hysterical monologues about the cruelty and hatred which the ogres of the loyalist community showed towards the helpess Catholic minority. To make things even worse, the whole thing was shot through with gunfire and explosions in widespread stereo, so that I felt as though I was sitting in the middle of a battlefield.

I tell you, brethren, my loyalty to the cause was tested that night.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: breezy
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 11:36 AM

why buy something you havent heard anyway?

thats women for you!

woosh I'm outta here

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Meggly
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 12:11 PM

I don't know if this counts cause I didn't buy it but our next door neighbour once appeared on our door-step to lend us an Irish Folk-music Kareoke DVD.

She'd heard us playing our, English, folk music and thought we might like it.

Gawd knows where she got it from though. I think she was tempted by the promise of the Irish country-side back-drops to the songs (unfortunately the DVD was so cheaply made that they used the same picture of a hill for every song; they couldn't even be bothered to cliche it up with a picture of a glass of whiskey for 'Whiskey in the Jar'). The music itself is in an out-of-rhythm synth-pop style.

We played it once, got drunk, sang along, pi**ed ourselves and put it on the shelf. Still, it gave us something to do.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Nick
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 12:37 PM

I got a box full of LPs given to me not so long ago and there is some awful rubbish in it. I'll see if I can bear to listen and pick out particular awful ones.

Not folk but I did once buy one of Devo's albums and still am not totally sure why. Interesting version of 'Satisfaction' on it.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 12:39 PM

Just for a laugh I bought Sounds of Sunset by Basil Henriques ("He makes easy listening Easy Listenin'!" boast the sleevenotes) which was worth it just to hear O'Carolan tunes played on Hawaiian guitar. Occupies pride of place in my record collection (next to Tijuana Christmas...)

I'm sure it's a sign of getting older, but novelty easy listening records just ain't what they used to be...

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Wee Faloorie Man
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 12:42 PM

http://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/lute.htm

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 12:44 PM

This reminds me of something I heard on the radio yesterday: "This American Life" on NPR, told the story of a two guys who had done some extensive market research to find out what people liked and didn't like in music. They ran a survey and then compiled a list. People liked guitars, drums, and synthesizers (the same instruments most pop musicians use); they disliked bagpipes, banjos, accordions (the same instruments folkies like to joke about). They liked low-pitched voices (both men's and women's voices) and disliked high-pitched voices, especially children's voices. They liked solo singers and duets and disliked choirs. They liked moderately paced music and disliked music that was very slow or very fast. As topics, they liked love songs and disliked religious themes or "holiday songs." They disliked rap and opera. (Obviously, some people do like rap and opera, but they are a minority, and the researchers were looking for the broadest possible consensus.)

Then they produced two recordings, one having all the "positive" characteristics and one having all the "negative."

The "good" one was boring, but the "bad" one was HILARIOUS. It reminded me of the stuff Peter Schickele composes as P. D. Q. Bach.

Imagine a children's choir, accompanied by bagpipes, singing, very fast, "Labor Day! Labor Day!..."

You can listen to This American Life here. The episode is called "Numbers" and the segment is "Act Two. Paint by Numbers."

The creators' web site is here. Unfortunately, it doesn't contain any sound samples. I guess you'll have to listen to the program.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Colin Randall
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 12:56 PM

My version of Del Shannon's Runaway, made in a seafront self-recording booth about 100 years ago in Blackpool.

Anything on the old Woolworth's label Embassy

More on topic, though, I agree with Lighter about anything including the word Celtic. There was a fairly grim Celtic Christmas album a little while ago and I came across a review copy a fortnight ago, but Sleepy Rosie's ears should be safe from that one for another 10 or 11 months.

Wasn't there also a Folk Orchestra once? And I slipped an early Clancy Brothers compilation into the car CD player the other day - and winced. It served a great purpose in its time - I recall thinking the Clancys were terrific then - but it sounds horrendous now. But then, I think the same about early Dubliners, but love what they developed into until Luke's death.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: ClaireBear
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 01:08 PM

I hereby submit Rod McKuen's 1995 holiday recording, New Carols for Christmas, (purchased for 25 cents at the thrift store as a joke gift for an as-yet unchosen individual, I hasten to add).

Claire

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Darowyn
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 01:27 PM

Don't you go saying bad things about Basil Henriques!
He is a superb professional and session musician, an acknowledged authority on traditional Hawaiian music, a key figure in British steel guitar playing and a good friend.
I don't know if it was that record, but on one of his Hawaiian "Hotel Lobby" (His words) music LPs, he was recording at Abbey Road and a couple of young men called Lennon and Mc Cartney played rhythm and bass guitars on one of the tracks- they were there at the time!
The Easy Listening albums were made for one very good reason- EMI paid him lots of money to do them. That's what professional musicians do- pay what they are paid to play!
Basil is originally Irish by the way, and is very familiar with both Carolan tunes and more folky Irish music.
If a Greek bouzouki can be Irish by adoption, why not a Hawaiian guitar?
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 05:28 PM

Purchased to really annoy a friend over the festive season - 'A box and a banjo for Christmas'... all your seasonal favourites played on the concertina and banjo.

You haven't lived until you've heard 'Mistletoe and wine' on the banjo....

We were evil... we were the guests that year at Christmas lunch and brought the music as our contribution, without showing him the contents. One of those posh players that took 5 CDs on a cassette - on shuffle. His face was a picture!




























Ever seen that one by Edvard Munsch?

LTS

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 07:36 PM

Wasn't there a thread on Celtic Woman a while back? Let me see now... Ah yes - here it is: http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=100526&messages=95

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 07:52 PM

Yep. I meant that "early Clannad," while stayed close to traditional material, even while enhancing it with a jazzy backup. Then they started doing mostly contemporary material with even jazzier backup and synthesizers. That's when they lost me.

What bugs me is not styles that don't appeal to me. It's the marketing of pop music and folk-rock as "traditional folk music."

But that's something that goes back fifty years.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Ref
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 08:04 PM

The grotesquely over-orchestrated Weavers album done with (TA-DA!)an orchestra. Anything done with a horde of bellowing children for a back-up chorus. The sound track from Cold Mountain, particularly after T-Bone Burnett did such a great job with O, Brother.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Fidjit
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 03:35 AM

I have a Wally Wyton LP somewhere.

Now according to your stuff on here I think I'll put it on and listen.

My celtic shelf is gathering dust.

Chas

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 04:08 AM

"the whole thing was shot through with gunfire and explosions in widespread stereo, so that I felt as though I was sitting in the middle of a battlefield.
I tell you, brethren, my loyalty to the cause was tested that night."

"He makes easy listening Easy Listenin'!"

"Anything done with a horde of bellowing children for a back-up chorus."

"they used the same picture of a hill for every song;"

...Oh now come on Meggily an Irish Folk Song Kareoke DVD?
Now there's a classy nights entertainment. I want one.
No really, I want one.

I'm in one hell of an exellent mood today.
Cheers for the giggles. Enjoying all the replies to this thread.
Any more contenders?

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 04:24 AM

Colin Randall: My version of Del Shannon's Runaway, made in a seafront self-recording booth about 100 years ago in Blackpool.

Do you know, Colin, I think I'd really, really like to hear that...

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,baz parkes
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 04:58 AM

Liz....I'm glad someone else has A Box and Banjo Christmas....I thought I'd imagined it!!

It's the way every track manages to include that same "diddle diddle dum" riff at the end of each A music that really gets to you

Baz

Who also has a Tijuana Christmas....

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 05:07 AM

Ah, there's a reason for that... like the bass drum going 'dump dump, dump dump, da ra dump dump' in the last 32 bars of any military march, it's to let the rest of the band know that the A music is about to finish.

It was only £3...

LTS

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 07:46 AM

"However, a CD like that might provide a good song for you to sing yourself. It might have something worth learning and doing right."

Yep Leeneia, I thought something similar. It'll be like one of those Dante-esque parental punishments for a wayward child... Just a masochistic version ;-)

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: MartinRyan
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 07:53 AM

I remember picking up, many years ago, a nicely packaged cassette of sea shanties recorded by a group of "Dutch fishermen". The accompanying booklet had full sets of lyrics (in English) - and they looked like excellent, authentic sets. BUT.... the singing was awful! Turned out to be a very stiff choir who should have been injected with neat gin before they were let loose on material like this! Ah, well...

Regards

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 08:04 AM

"Turned out to be a very stiff choir who should have been injected with neat gin before they were let loose on material like this!"

Heresy! Should have been neat rum, surely! :-)

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 08:10 AM

Maybe Dutch fishermen prefer gin?

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Gedpipes
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 08:10 AM

Hello Rosie
Can I have my CD back please. Some bugger pinched it from our house and I'm missing it.
Blue skies
Ged :-)

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Gedi
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 08:13 AM

Box and Banjo Christmas - yes I too fell for it - since I play a melodeon myself I stupidly thought I might pick up some good tunes etc.

Sadly to my ears the whole album sounds like its been done on a Bontempi Organ! Truly awful.

Ged

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 08:26 AM

Celtic women? Aren't those ladies who, for reasons known only to themselves, like to sing whilst languishing at the bottom of wells?

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 08:42 AM

Thought some of the members might rather enjoy this...

(I have been told by male friends, that some men like to watch Hollyoaks with the sound off. And pass this suggestion on, as an option to enhance your listening pleasure.)

Some-WuuHHair Over the Rainbow by Celtic-u-like Totty

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 08:51 AM

Zzzzzzz.....

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Mike Rogers
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 08:55 AM

Sleepy Rosie's post should have come with a more implicit warning.
I didn't have a large bucket to hand and I've made a mess all over the keyboard.

In all innocence I once bought "Tina Turner sings Country" for £1.99
at a Little Chef near the Welsh border. Charity Shops have refused to accept it.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 10:19 AM

"However, a CD like that might provide a good song for you to sing yourself. It might have something worth learning and doing right."

Actually as it turns out Leeneia, I know a couple of them already. As the boyfriend generously observed while I was playing it for his delectation:
"Even you sing it better than that...."

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Noreen
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 10:25 AM

Oh Rosie... that YouTube link led to another- and another...

One song I could cope with (they have beautifully pure voices and VERY pretty dresses, after all) but the anodyne arrangements and presentation makes me wonder how anyone could sit through a whole concert.

Need to go and do something to clear my head!

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Fidjit
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 10:35 AM

And from the notices that they got. This. ! ! !
Dutch taste differs obviously.



They're all so gorgeous, too...
DaRkSymphoniCa (13 uur geleden) Toon Verbergen
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WOW!
their voices are amazing!!
DaVooz (21 uur geleden) Toon Verbergen
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But what about the arrangement than animeiimport? This one is as close to the JG original today as can be. Leona Lewis and all the others sing the Eva Cassiday or modern r&b-version of it, making it a completely diferent song. I was glad to hear a modern version that sounded like it was intended.
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they are incredible but i can t say the same about the arrangement of the piece.
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I never thought I would like a song as much as "Concrete Angel" by Martina McBride, but this this beautiful song definetely rivals it! I love the celtic women- they have beautiful voices!
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tout simplement : beau !
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no words can discribe how amazing they are
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Oh My Gosh! It's simply beautiful!
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This hormony in their voices... simply amazing.
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Amaaaaaaaaging. Love!





Chas

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 10:39 AM

So. we manage to save something valuable from the wreckage.
===
That survey that was described on NPR (see Jim Dixon's post above) is suspect. Perhaps if went out and surveyed a bunch of people who don't care much about music and pay little attention to it, we would get the opinions referred to.

Just as if we surveyed anybody about flowers, we would get the same, well-worn responses - 'I like roses. Oh, yeah, and what-ya-call-its, irises.'

Above, Baz mentioned 'every track manages to include that same "diddle diddle dum" riff at the end of each A." I doubt that the people surveyed would notice that repetitive riff, and I doubt that they would know what Baz means by an A.

I think that repetitive riff is there because some leaden-souled exec made them do it. Just as every Kleenex box needs the same Kleenex logo, every folk piece needs the same folk gimmick. Or so he fondly imagines.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 10:53 AM

At what point in history (I wonder) did "Celtic" come to mean twee and anodyne?

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 10:55 AM

Ah, the genre I usually refer to as "Celto-crap". Alas, some people actually LIKE it. (No one in our circle, thanks.)

I'm not particularly fond of pop vocalists who have no grounding in traditional folk at all recording with The Chieftains. (Of whom, as a result, I have a very low opinion and a vocabulary usually reserved for politicians and used car salesmen.)

Also in general recordings of "ye olde English bawdy songs" or "Robert Burns' bawdy songs" usually turn out to be hideous, especially if done in chorus. Arghhhh!!!

Wispy voiced female singers drive me up a wall. As do singers who don't do their research or have no feeling for trad.

By the way, ALL Dutch and German shanty and sea music performance is done in large choruses with all the parts written out -- no place for improvised harmonies or spontanaety.

Linn

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 11:08 AM

Celtic Woman, are glamorous "theatre" really aren't they? Clearly got excellent voices underneath all that grotesque sugary production. And I bet they're making a mint. So probably not too dumb either.

Still, dunno how anyone could cope with enduring one of their shows, unless there's a 'contented compliance' drug being circulated through the air conditioning.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: MartinRyan
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 11:19 AM

Bat Goddess

You mean there's more? Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh...... ;>)

Regards

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 11:25 AM

"You mean there's more?"

Oh yes...

Come 'Ere, There's More...

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 11:37 AM

Sounds like you picked a doozie there, Sleepy Rosie. I don't think I've ever bought a record or CD that turned out to be dreadful. I have bought the odd one that was a below my expectations, but never one that was "dreadful".

However, I must mention just in passing...for those of you who will be shocked and dismayed to hear it...this one thing: I really like Enya. I LOVE her music. I think she's wonderful.

Live with it. ;-)

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: bubblyrat
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 11:39 AM

Well, I took a risk and bought a "Celtic Legends " -type double-CD, complete with unlikely-looking ,highly stylised picture of obligatory "blind fiddler" on the sleeve, and it is actually rather GOOD !! Altan--Patrick Street--Kornog---Tannahill Weavers--unpronouncable mega-group from Galicia ( stunning !! )--and loads more !!----it's one of my most treasured (and most played ) recordings !
               As to bass drums----well, I was a percussionist (bass-drum,side-drum and cymbals) in a military (Naval) band for 11 years, and the importance of the double-beat signal from the bass-drummer with regard to A) halting the band whilst marching and B) finishing a march / tune in the right place and all at the same time, cannot be over-emphasised !! When I hear "bass-drummers" and other "percussionists" in Morris-sides, putting double beats at the end of every phrase ,to no apparent purpose, it makes my blood boil ....GGRRRRRR !!!!