Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: MBSGeorge
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 05:12 AM

Excuse me Diane

If everyone thought like you there would be far fewer people interested in Folk as if they are not excellent at it they would assume they shouldn't participate.

I will be bringing my son up to enjoy all aspects of Folk and if he is interested in learning and joining in with any aspect I will positively encourage him regardless of his ability.

I have performed at several festivals as a booked artist, I am not spectacular but I have never heard anyone complain that as I am not perfect I shouldn't be performing. I do not dumb down and I try to find out origins to the songs which I perform. (something which has to be done now by law)

It is people like me who are bringing up today's and tomorrow's generations to enjoy and appreciate folk and who will contribute to keeping folk alive - at all levels.

G

---

Thread closed.
Diane, Ralphie, and others: Please keep your personal squabbles, personal. We don't care to be drawn into them.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 01:56 AM

Ralph is very formulaic when he puts people down. He makes a list of what they can't do.
There was madlizziecornish who thoroughly deserves opprobrium because of her damaging disruption and harm heaped on artists' careers.
Then there was mad dog Bonzo Stephen Doo Da Giles, roundly and rightly condemned for his serial music pirating activities.
But then Ralph woke up one morning and decided he didn't like me either after all.
So he tells you all about some of the stuff I don't or can't do any longer (actually a source of great sadness to me) but forgets to include my achievements in writing and production.
Ah well, but the Mudcat list isn't all that interested.
He's hopped and landed in the camp that worships that particularly English trait that glories in the cult of amateurishness and anyone-can-do-it.
Talk about taking a giant hop backwards.
Sidmouth used to be where you did what you thought you couldn't, where you met and learned from the hallowed giants.
Now the waxing theme is "inclusiveness" which sounds horribly like "GEFFism Rules".
Not a route to go down in rescuing what remains of our traditions from the clutches of the Smooth Operators' MOR mush.
The quote of if elitism = excellence, long live elitism isn't really mine entirely but was co-invented with a Sidmouth stalwart and member of one of the top ceilidh bands in the land.
I know there are many others who feel equally as passionately.
It's hard to fathom why everyone doesn't.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 10:45 PM

Dunno what you think holistic means, but what happens is that you learn cooking at the EAC summer school as well as tunes, not that you can turn up if you can't even tune your instrument and think it doesn't matter.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Dave Earl
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 07:00 PM

"from the English Acoustic Collective."

Indeed!

And whose web pages include this:-

The EAC continues its holistic approach to traditional music making at Ruskin Mill, Nailsworth, Gloucestershire. 17 places are available for a week designed to engage fiddle players from all backgrounds and levels in the development of their own style. This year we will also open the course to non-fiddlers who are keen to develop their personal style.

Now what do we think Holistic means?

Clue they tell us in the phrase "all backgrounds and levels"

Diane, some of us are rather more informed/widely read than you give us credit for.

Dave

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: TheSnail
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 05:55 PM

What's "trivial" about "socialising"?

Surely folk music is social music by definition.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 05:49 PM


"consider the music "

Why do you assume that they don't?

Here and elsewhere I see and hear far too many dismissive swipes at where this music comes from and refusal to recognise its value and importance. This is an English thing. For a couple of generations, children at school have been taught and indeed encouraged to despise and reject their cultural inheritance. Only when, after one or two more generations, they have been taught how wrong this was and to cherish it will they then add to it themselves. The sooner this is achieved, the better. But it won't until the last GEFF is eliminated.

And before anyone else starts kicking off, the philosophy behind this originates not from me (I'm sad to relate) but from the English Acoustic Collective. Go and take on Chris Wood instead and see where it gets you.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Dave Earl
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 05:36 PM

Thank you terry :-)

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Leadfingers
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 05:35 PM

200!

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Dave Earl
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 05:33 PM

"consider the music "

Why do you assume that they don't?

I and most of the people I have anything to do (here and in the real world) are doing what we do with the song/tune/dance because we have the greatest consideration for it - why would we trouble to learn it if we didn't.

If we let ourselves and the song/tune/dance down once in a while it's more often a case of nerves rather than ineptitude in my experience ( and I like to think I have some).

Dave
PS
Thanks Bryan

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 05:17 PM

If these hounds with high-rising hackles actually took a moment to consider the music rather than trivial socialising and boozing, they might just have time to hear what I and others are saying. It's not a "point of view" but a concerted bid to raise the profile of English trad music to the level prevailing in other cultures.

Not "personal" (unless you're one of those who actually say "Good Enough For . . . ").

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: TheSnail
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 05:16 PM

Diane Easby

I can't see why it requires a face-to-face confrontation to convey the importance and excellence of this music to the outside world in the best possible light.

I have watched this thread with a sort of detached amusement but that statement is a tipping point. It is the face-to-face nature of it that defines folk music for me.

P.S. Breton Cap IS a man in a silly hat but an excellent fellow for all that.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Dave Earl
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 04:59 PM

"though I can't see why it requires a face-to-face confrontation"

It doesn't but I feel that if you put your case with less invective fewer people would have their hackles raised when you express your point of view.

Dave

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 04:47 PM

The hat (not McVitie) said: the recipient can't see your tone of voice, body language or facial expression to get the full nuances.

No, though I can't see why it requires a face-to-face confrontation to convey the importance and excellence of this music to the outside world in the best possible light. Had I made it to Sidmouth last weekend as originally intended, you'd have been able (given the inclination and courage) to speak to me directly.

There's no rocket science here. Not even originality. There are oh so many (not just in this thread and the one that evaporated) who are equally concerned, indeed horrified, at GEFFism. Does the jazz world, the baroque scene, the Sub-Saharan blues or Southern African township scene etc etc tolerate this dumbing down crapness? No. I don't think so.

Case rested.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 04:01 PM

If ever circumstances allow (a writing commission that pays well perhaps?) I'll be back at Sidders. I'll know who to seek out, and who to avoid. Not a lot new there. No, I haven't been since the end of the Heap régime (purely coincidental). Other things get in the way.

What I'll want to see are spectaculars like Flame and acts like La Bottine Souriante. I know that means the Arena and I know the logistics (sorry again to Ms Archer but it was the international element that made it different from any other smalltown festival). Sessions can be anywhere but are still a window on what the public sees, It's supremely important that what happens in a couple of small pubs in an off-season Devon seaside town persuades these seaside passers-by of the excellence of our cultural heritage. It's a burden you should be glad to bear.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: MBSGeorge
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 03:16 PM

Too right. Can't wait to warble and lurk in the Anchor.

G x

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Dave Earl
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 03:13 PM

George

I know you ,yer mum, yer man and yer lad and have done for years -I also know its a hat and i wear it for silliness

But thanks - see ya in the first week of August eh?

Dave

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: MBSGeorge
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 03:06 PM

Oh and Dave

I don't think you're a man in a silly hat.

:0)

G x

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Dave Earl
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 03:02 PM

"I'm slagging off no-one. I'm criticising sloppy ideas which harm music and its public perception."

But the way you go about it upsets people and they see it as a personal attack on them ( or patronising).

I did say way back in this thread that there is a thing called netiquette which is there because when using email type methods of communication the recipient can't see your tone of voice, body language or facial expression to get the full nuances of your message. Surely if you are or were a journalist you must have been aware of the shortcomings of text only communications.

And I still don't see why you needed to come in here in the first place and feel a tad aggravated that you have effectively highjacked the thread.

Dave

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 03:01 PM

MBS George.
Exactly. I'm with you 100 percent.
Oh, Didn't know it was your birthday too. Congratulations.
Regards Ralphie. See you next time.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: MBSGeorge
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 02:48 PM

I don't think that in Ms Easby's perfect world I'd be allowed to breathe, let alone sing.

I'm no journalist or a professional singer (I'm not totally unaccomplished) just a 30 year old (FEMALE) mum and simply write things down the way my brain processes my opinion.

I do enjoy folk music as well as amature or professional singing.

I will agree with one point only - yes you have a right to express your opinion but I believe that you have now over expressed.

Sidmouth is somewhere I particularly enjoy singing because your ability is not judged and as I have been going for 16 years to the main festival and 15 years to the reunion I feel as though I am amongst family. The reunion has always coincided with my birthday and I can't think of a better way to celebrate than a weekend of varied song (and the odd pint).

I thoroughly enjoyed the reunion this year although I think that as I get older the hangover gets worse. :0)

G x

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 02:45 PM

Ralph

1 to 3 incorrect (or at least formerly so).
I can't sing these days because of a form of dysphonia .
I don't play out that much because I'm not all that good (unlike you).
I don't dance now because of age and decrepitude.
But you know all this.
4. Correct, it's one thing I did and got music items on. So?

I'm slagging off no-one. I'm criticising sloppy ideas which harm music and its public perception.
You know this very well as we have previously talked about it at length.
Should you wish to again, you know where I am.

D

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 02:31 PM

Diane
1 You can't sing.
2 You can't play.
3 You can't dance.
4 You used to work on Blue Peter.
And, therefore you feel you have the temerity to slag off some lovely people.
I'm a Musician. Others here are Singers.
You are neither. And (by your own admission) have not been to Sidmouth for years.
So, What are you doing here, on a very gentle thread involving participants of a gentle meeting of friendly people in South Devon?
Your aim is what?
Ralph

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Cllr
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 02:17 PM

i will reply off list see you in the pm's
Cllr

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 01:05 PM

Mike, now that we are entirely offtopic (and you haven't replied to me offlist), we may as well stay there.

I didn't do my journalist training on The Sun (though a friend did - in Manchester when it was still a newspaper) but on the Morning Star (as I think you are very well aware), having just missed a Mirror apprenticeship where standards were (then) the highest (q.v. Paul Foot and Alistair Campbell, though you may not concur).

I didn't say all journalists adhered to the ethics I described, but that they were those that the profession theoretically stands for and that the good people who guided me instilled into me. There is reporting, and there is editorialising. You don't get far unless you can distinguish the difference. However, like many Mudcat participants, the majority of the general readership has a problem in separating fact from opinion.

Like, if it's a fact they don't like, they say 'that's just your opinion'.

Veering back onto topic, here on Mudcat, some people see a condemnation of sloppy GEFFish attitiudes in what some call f*lk music and conclude, tortuously, that they are being "personally attacked". I've referred to this as Cap Fitting Syndrome.

What I am saying, in essence, is that whatever they do and however they perform in private is entirely their concern and not my business. I don't have to listen or put up with it and it does nothing further to damage the music's image. But in public (and that includes sessions), it's entirely another matter. Like Mr Kampervan said, there's just far too much that is excruciatingly embarrassing going on, with 'outsiders' remarking with incredulity 'you pay money week after week for this?'

It doesn't have to be like that. And shooting the messenger isn't the answer.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 12:57 PM

Same here Cllr, except I'll be at the other end of England next time Sidmouth Festival proper rolls around again.... anything to stop him buying another bloody melodeon!

(although it does open up the opportunity for Northumbrian pipes...)

LTS

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Cllr
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 11:53 AM

i wasnt having a go at your post so much as trying to inject a small, sorry, tiny amount of humour back into the thread. I'm a dyslexic so i do get a bit cranky when people use it as a perjorative or rubbish an entire post because of error which usually makes no difference to the content. I apologise if you took it as a personal attack.

1) journalism is about selling news if it wasnt "The Sun" wouldnt be the where all the highest paid journalist are. This is with the exception of journalists who say offensive/contrary views in the hope of increasing their mailbags and readership in the newspapers they are called columnists (such as julie birchil/mathew paris) on the net they are called trolls.

Im not saying that you dont hold the ideals you put forward or that all journalist are of the high standard of that of the Sun and their ilk. However Sun journalists are arguably at the top the proffesion and have a talent of taking news and putting in a very digestable fashion. There is a slant from the editor and owner which i think belies your claim that the journalistic proffesion is

"journalism, a trade with a necessarily sole and detached perspective and thus no adherance to cliques or feuding factions."

Again i dont decry you saying that you try to be what you say you are but i pause when you put forward a journalistic background to justify your comments.

I, of course, coming from a background of being a profesional politician are balenced, fair and oh hang on...

Having got that out the way i think the crux of the matter IMHO is this, the reason that people are telling you to ermmm "jog on" is because like it or not your comments are causing offence and you may not care whether you cause offence in the name of your firmly held beliefs - the problem is that by communicating them in such a fashion
people will not listen to you and you do more damage in trying to communicate the views you hold so dearly. IF you dont care about that then why should others care about what you think, simply to say 'cos your right doesnt help get the view across.

and back to the thread


I had a brilliant time at the reunion and lok forward to laughing Drinking and singing with you all soon.

Cllr

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 10:15 AM

Mike, it's a consequence of faltering eyesight and stiffening little fingers, exacerbated no doubt by what's getting up my nose.
I was never a more than competent player, so opted for what I was good at, journalism, a trade with a necessarily sole and detached perspective and thus no adherance to cliques or feuding factions.
What I speak / write about is for a cause and a purpose and it would be unethical to personalise it, though this isn't to say that I don't have my own likes and dislikes and exercise a consequent choice.
This is the difference between the professional and the personal.
There is a parallel difference between what you might sing or play at your Great Aunt Mary's birthday party or in the bath, and what you might perform in public.
Many bystanders have, of course got that. It's not hard.
Nor do they inexplicably confuse a critique of sloppy, unrehearsed presentation with "personal attack".
It's nothing of the sort.
It's a clarion call to secure our cultural heritage.
Those with any outstanding queries might care to discuss them with me offlist.

[If you're dragging a rabbit into it, don't forget to spoon Marmite into the casserole].

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 09:48 AM

Isn't Small one of Rabbit's friends and relations?

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Cllr
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 09:34 AM

"hangs on like a bad small,"

whats a bad small? is it a bit like a short bickering?

actually i think the answer is yes...

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: My guru always said
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 08:43 AM

Life's too short for bickering!

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Surreysinger
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 07:29 AM

Liz - I think you know the answer to that one!!

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 04:49 AM

Does anyone else think it time this bickering stopped?

LTS

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 04:35 AM

I'm not.
I'm speaking the truth, as I do.
I'm asking you not to put yourself down.

As an afterthought, I should explain to those who don't know (or remember) just who Jo Lustig was. That is to say, a profit-obsessed impresario whose sole interest in performers was what he could make: Mr 45% took that proportion of fees for himself (that's excluding costs and expenses), after ordering his acts to perform just how and what he said.

There's no-one comparable around today but as long as an attitude of "who cares, it's good enough for . . ." hangs on like a bad small, so do the dangers. And I'll be opposing them. Wherever.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 04:23 AM

Diane.
Don't patronise me
Ralph

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 03:43 AM

Suit yourself.
I'll agree that it's exasperating when people pretend to misunderstand what's been said (or not).
I scarcely knew Rosie but I'm obviously sorry she's no longer here.
I'd disagree profoundly with one thing Ralph says.
He's no crap player and self deprecation tends to make him look rather silly.
Aspiring musicians would do better emulating what he does (musically) rather than what he says.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 01:10 AM

This is getting so exasperating.
Diane. Leave it.
Having just been to Rosies funeral (Hi Chris and Anne), and witnessed members of her family both singing and playing with real love, your bickering and postulating is beginning to sicken me.
Yes, I'm lucky enough to work with great musicians. But, also, on many occasions I have no idea what the name of a certain tune is. Does that make me a failure?
I don't think so.
I felt honoured to have been invited to Rosies funeral on friday. She was my friend. A fine singer and musician, and academic.
That, and meeting the good people in the Radway is why I love this music.
If I wanted to, I could out "Name Drop" you anytime...(Jo Lustig indeed!). but you are missing the point.
The music I love is inextricably entwined with the people who perform it. Good or bad, learners or experienced. End of....

So, Diane. Just put a sock in it. There is no need for your vitriol. Life is too short for point scoring.
You just start looking silly
Ralph Jordan (Crap concertina player of this parish)

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Cllr
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 04:34 PM

ho hum finally dragged into this thread!
yes we do have themes- one of which is the "seasongs and shanty night" for the last seven or eight years, we raise money for the Sidmouth Lifeboat (We hold the record for raising over a grand and a half in one event one Tuesday evening session.) For the rest of the week and the reunion we raise funds for the festival. well sounds like thats good enough for folk music and government work.
Cllr

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 03:14 PM

foul language

Angelina Jolie's tits?
cobbles?

I did hear that the Anchor session has "themes" (if it can think of any). So what could they do in the way of songs with naughty words?

The Grey Cock (natch)
The White Cock Aid (oops I mean Cockade)
Me Cock's Me Own (see Simon Ritchie's repertoire for more cock songs ad infinitum)
Fair Maid of Islington (that's got the lot, but it's funny so I guess not)
The Buxom Lass (yeah, suburban lawnmowing . . . )
Game Of All Fours (nah, takes imagination)
Bonny Black Hare (as long as it doesn't get conflated with The White Bunny) . . .

Going to pub. Those who aren't can keep this one running and running.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: MBSGeorge
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 02:21 PM

Diane

Yet another personal attack on me. 'from one androgynous Anchorite'

I am not 'androgynous' - my birth certificate says Georgina which I think you will find is very often shortened to George and MBS stands for Middle Bar Singer.

Stop using foul language and just leave me alone please!!!

G

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Kampervan
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 12:40 PM

I have to say that it's difficult to disagree with the fundamentals of Ms Easby's proposition.

In the music halls, if someone was good they got applauded, if they were bad they got boo'd or pelted with rotten fruit. I've no doubt that this helped to raise the general standards of performance.

In many areas of the folk world we are all expected to listen, endure and then applaud some of the most appalling performances simply because 'they're doing their best'.

This does not help to spread our genre to a wider audience who can't believe some of the stuff that is heard daily in clubs up and down the country.

I've taken 'outsiders' to a folk club and watched the look on their faces as they've asked 'Do you come along every week to listen to this?'.
I sort of apologise and say 'Well, hang on, the next performer is really good, and you have to sit through some of the worst in order to hear some of the best.'

But is that how it should be?

Yes, encourage, support and help newcomers. But people should practice in private, and when they come to perform in public, thy are entitled to honest feedback.

There are different levels of ability in everything, and not everyone can the world's number one. But it should never be a case of 'Oh well, it's good enough....

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 11:55 AM

So, we're in sort of agreement then. No surprise there. It's no more than stating the bleedin' obvious. However, where we might diverge (some apparently do) is that a public display of ineptitude is fine as long as the perpetrator is doing his or her "best".

No it isn't. The place for a half-remembered snatch of a song which you're not sure what key to put it in or how the rest of the lyrics go is the shower and a bit of a tune that you have no idea where it comes from (or you've looked it up in thesession.org so it must be Irish, ha!) is your bedroom (or in my case, one end of the kitchen), till you get the song / tune, along with its attribution, right. Only then should you play / sing out.

You'd think everyone would want to avoid making an arse of themselves in public, wouldn't you? I do. And the point is, a session IS a public place, not a rehearsal room, But what I'm saying is that the entire ethos should be NOT to screw things up because that's what the music deserves. It's not just your own reputation at stake.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Dave Earl
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 11:06 AM

"Whose side are you on? (expletive deleted)

I'm on the side of those who try their best at whatever it is they do (singer or musician in whatever genre it may be).

If they fall short of excellence I don't criticise them if they have done the best they can. I will encourage whoever it might be to keep trying and to continue to learn stuff that can be shared with the rest of us. I see no disrespect to the song or tune if the person has done their best with it.I don't know anyone who deliberately performs badly and I'd be surprised if you have.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 10:39 AM

Indeed I have, and though it may not apply to you personally, it's a maxim many would do well to assimilate and adopt so I won't be ceasing to say it until the aim is achieved.

I speak for myself (I'm on no-one's affiliated list nor do I have one any longer since it was hacked in the interests of disseminating images of Angelina Jolie's tits throughout the known universe).

But those who fail to strive for the proper recognition of musical excellence will be harangued until they do. Whose side are you on fer chrissake? Smoothops?

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Dave Earl
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 09:51 AM

"I'm getting bored"

So are we! You've told us countless times before.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 09:04 AM

I've just been away heaving sacks of cobbles which was, I can tell you, considerably less hard work than this. Two things occurred to me: firstly ,that I had omitted to congratulate TB for such an insightful contribution. I'm sure you'll all join me in this.

Not boasting or anything, but in my years of writing, during which I felt precluded from singing or playing out at all (except for the odd benefit) because balancing the two hats is really not on (many may have been relieved about this), I think I have acquired a necessarily unique perspective.

Personal likes and dislikes aside, I was also unable to champion any one artist, festival or venue, nor to be a part of any "clique" or "faction" on this so-called "f*lkscene" (real or imaginary), but had to be free to investigate and analyse for myself. (As an illustration, I was banned from Jo Lustig's promotions at one stage for publicly taking issue with his managerial interference with artistic integrity but invariably went anyway at the request of the performers themselves).

The other thing was to reiterate (with one 't') my overwhelming conclusion that nothing is "Good Enough For F*lk". It is everyone's absolute duty to strive to be better to the point of excellence because this music's reputation with the public at large is at stake. In these times of threat from the nasty right and Excalibur hijacking it for their own vile ends and from the dumbed down MOR mush advocated by Smoothops, Simon Cowell or whoever, Swarb's famed "the music doesn't mind" cuts it no longer. Primarily, its far too anthropomorphic: it's the music's exponents who have to mind and care. They have been entrusted with our cultural heritage which will scarcely be enhanced by one lot sitting in one pub and sniping at another.

I'm getting bored and need to deal with the cobbles. Do, therefore, bear in mind:

If elitism = excellence, long live elitism.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: ConcertinaChap
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 08:14 AM

Gosh! Having looked into this thread for the first time, isn't it bad tempered, considering how pleasant the weekend was!

Eye Lander> Now I remember why I stopped looking at Mudcat. I think I'll goaway again.

I know how you feel.

Herga Kitty> The Middle Bar Singers have had a winter reunion for many years and so have the Radway musos, but the two are arranged separately and there's no guarantee that both will be arranged for the same weekend.

Exactly so. It's my job to run the Radway mailing list and to talk to Steve the landlord of the Radway to sort the reunion dates. I try and keep the reunion in line with the Middle Bar's because there are people with their homes in each session who like to look in on the other. It isn't a big thing for any of us, however, and if the Anchor dates didn't work for us we'd have our reunion at some different time. That's why I'm a little uncomfortable with a phrase like Sidmouth Winter Reunion.

Ralphie> I never meant to sound elitist about the Radway. It is indeed open to all musicians. Young, Old (mostly!!) Learners, all welcome.

Again, exactly so. Anne and I started going to the Radway as the rankest beginners 10 years ago. We were made welcome and are still there.

Ralphie again> Anyway a new day dawns, and I've got a funeral to attend.

Which I think sets it all into context. At least we gave Rosie a good send off.

Chris

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 03:50 AM

I've already given some indication of the never-ending list of activities I get up to when at Sidmouth (where I was not last weekend for reasons already gone into). My entry into this thread was prompted (as I said before, though the apparently dyslexic and comprehension-challenged mindsets of certain song-only types bent on their own agenda have failed to grasp), was to challenge an unkind, dismissive and untrue slur from one such that musos are a "clique".

I used as an example a particularly appalling GEFF scenario not at Sidmouth, together with a crass assertion from one androgynous Anchorite who didn't give a toss (or "two hoots", I believe it was) for musical attribution or provenance, to analyse this form of negative cultural apartheid.

Wherever GEFFism and general inverted snobbist disdain for musical excellence began, I know not but it was certainly around long before Anchorites isolated themselves in that venue to pursue whatever it is that they do. As for the oddly-named belligerent person who accused me of saying that's ALL s/he does, I didn't as I know not the person. Some do it though.

If some people are becoming "upset" at what I say about an unwelcome, ignorant phenomenon and think (wrongly) that it is directed to them alone personally, good. It just might set them thinking about the music and not just of their own narrow egos.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 08:26 PM

DE needs to be ignored to get her off this thread which she seems to have hi-jacked to her own ends.(time to up your dose of Lithium I think Diane!)
She has made the false assumption the those who like the Anchor Middle bar spend the whole Festival week there: WRONG! I go to many other events in the Festival, usually buy a season ticket and use it. I often see other Middle bar singers in the concerts, etc, and I spend time in the Bedford, the Swan, the RY&F sessions too. But still enjoy those Middle bar sessions I go to, to the extent that I travelled over 400 miles each way to come to last weekend's reunion.

DE's even had a go at my Mudcat name: I won't bore her with the details,as she'll no dounbt find reason to snipe at them too. But when I joined Mudcat, you were invited to create a name for yourself, rather than use your real name: there is a strong family reason for my name: it was not just plucked from the air. But in line with another forum I use, where there was a real name amnesty recently, I'll sign my real name at the bottom of this posting.

To DE, go and get a life: no need to spend the rest of it upsetting people.

To Middle Bar Singers, "We can laugh, drink and sing"! Let's keep on doing it! This is my last word to DE too (as per my first para).

Trish Santer

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Surreysinger
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 07:47 PM

Sorry = I've just realised that this latest discussion about Sidmouth FESTIVAL is, of course, wildly off topic, since the subject of the thread is actually the Winter Reunion ... so presumably anyone discussing the festival itself has not been reading the original and subsequent posts properly. I profess myself guilty :-)   I'll go and get me hat and coat now ....

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Winter Reunion 2009
From: Surreysinger
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 07:30 PM

Hey Rosie ... some of us are looking forward to meeting you!!