Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,RTMF
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 05:56 AM

Hey guys...thanks for all the ideas!!

We have indeed booked Johnny Kearney!! and Rachel Unthank etc are friends of the festival but due to the mercury nomination so incredible busy and yes.....rather costly.

Fliers for our new gig Battle of the bands will be out this week so watch out for them. With Last Orders doing the finale we are hoping this will attract a whole new audience to our festival.....if you are an up and coming band why not give us a look...you could be in with a chance of winning our new Kathryn Tickell Trophy!!

The youth stage is a great idea but unfortunately (for this year certainly) isn't a viable option our village is small and our volunteers stretched however we try to make sure our outdoor stage has a variety of acts to cover the whole spectrum of ages we encourage.

I can confirm we have also booked Finlay MacDonald and Chris Stout along with Hannah James, Kingsman and the Byker Mummers.

We have several 'old friends' who i am sure will be around the village playing in sessions. Ian Stephenson and Joey Oliver among those!

Rocas...we would love to involve you in the festival...why not come and see what we're all about this year...enjoy the sessions and come have a chat and we may be able to organise something for next year??!!

www.rothbury-traditional-music.co.uk

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: matt milton
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 06:01 AM

Can I suggest you book this guy? He's local (to you).

www.myspace.com/jonnykearney

Have a listen. He's a recent graduate from the Newcastle Uni folk course. He's the best off that course that I've heard – in that he doesn't sound all polished and conservatoire and neat and tidy.He's a lovely guitarist in a sort of post-Nic Jones slightly Janschy sort of way with a really nice line in sarky lyrics in a kind of John Cooper Clarke/Arctic Monkeys kind of way. Plus his readings of trad stuff are great - quite Chris Wood ish. If I was a record company I'd sign him up on the spot.

He also plays as part of a trio called the Vicars of Blyth. I think the vocal group Evil Sweeties are from round those parts too, a band I stumbled across via checking out some of the links on Kearney's myspace page. There are some good inroads into some of that Newcastle Uni talent to be had there.

On a different note, I don't suppose you've got the cash to stump up for the Rachel Unthank & Winterset? That to me would be an obvious choice for me for reeling in a whole new audience, both young and old, of people who wouldn't normally even listen to folk music but who listened to that album because of its Mercury nomination.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,Young Youth Yob Muso
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 04:43 AM

An interesting point; what is good word to describe younger generation musicians?

Somehow I would expect a youth stage to have a more amateur feel than a, I don't know, rising stars stage, or something...

A yob stage is my favorite.   

We often use the word 'young' when describing our own music. What sort of group does that conjure up to you? What word is better to describe a young professional (or semi-professional) act?

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: matt milton
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 03:52 AM

If I were you, I wouldn't call it a YOUTH STAGE (even if that's what it is). Sounds terribly naff and patronising.

Are you offering any kind of student/young people's discount on ticket prices?

are you fliering any of the local gigs of younger folk musicians? (or younger folkish rock musicians?)

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,gust
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 04:06 PM

personally, I'd talk to Damien Barber. He is very much on the pulse of this question.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,Rocas
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 03:54 PM

I think there are more young tune players than singers over here too, certainly ones that are commonly found in festival sessions. Thing is, you can have a roaring tune session going as a backdrop to a more universally appealing (as in not just people here for the music) party but a song session really can only have a song session in the room, loud talking is usually not a welcome backdrop.

That's not a criticism and I enjoy many singarounds, just a point of view.

Rocateer A

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 03:31 PM

Not to get TOO far off topic, or hijack your thread, but I think Barry raised an interesting point.

Where I live there (central NC, Southern US) is a thriving and growing music and dance scene... mostly of the old-time variety, and mostly instrumental. I have noticed at music gatherings (and those of you who go to festivals would know more about this) that there are TONS more young people (late teens, twenties) playing than even a few short years ago. BUT, not so much singing!

Maybe because that's less a part of the 'old-time' tradition than are fiddle and banjo, but still.... the only way I can find a good song circle is to go up to visit those FSGW folks once a year : )

Dani

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,Rocas
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 02:53 PM

BOOK US!
Ok sorry for blatant self-publicity, but booking younger acts, especially those that really like playing, so when the gigs over are usually found playing sessions all night!

Lots of young musos we know are drawn by the near guarantee of good tunes, that is to say a mixture if different sessions running most of the time (get enthusiastic, tactful and generally good session people to host them, maybe some of the booked artists) and somewhere to make noise through the night, a local hotel/ bar that can stay open 'till the morn is a great asset for us! A freezing gazebo with no bar, adjacent to family tents is not so great ;O)

I would say that I'm afraid I hadn't heard of your fest.... sorry, looks great! And I actively search for festivals when sending out publicity packs, are you on all the available folk fest lists online?

I think Brian Finnegan, Kathryn Tickell, Deaf Shepherd, Finlay MacDonald are all great and do appeal to young players! Sounds awesome!

Rocateer

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 12:10 PM

I think Beer has a good idea. His Youth Stage tapped the community. Having the young musicians play attracts parents and grandparents, who learn what the festival is like.

I think you need to think about different categories of young people and how to reach them.

Music students who live within 100 miles of the festival - contests, performance opps, discount tickets. Offer shows they will like at a good time slot. Problem with them is they may be overscheduled already. Where I live this is very apt to be the case.

Children who come because their parents want to be there: Have sessions aimed at them (have percussion instruments, do songs they know), let them perform, instrument petting zoo, have a puppet show, rent some play equipment.

General population: I have been active in traditional music a long time. In my opinion, liking trad doesn't have to do with age, wealth or anything like that. It has to do with one's nervous system, the musical network in the brain. Some people just like their music more organized than others.   Thus folkies are distributed throughout the world like raisins in raisin bread. The best way to reach them is to let them hear the music.

I wish I had better ideas on how to accomplish that in today's popchained world, but I don't.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 08:43 PM

Sorry Jack, I didn't realize that & now I don't know how I'd copy it off there & get it onto here. I guess that's another one that'll have to be left up to the younger ones ot figure out.

Barry

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 08:29 PM

"You must log in to see this page".

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 08:05 PM

sorry, here's the link

these kid's ain't to shabby

Barry

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 08:03 PM

This was only a small part that the young folk played at the BCM fest, actually they were most of what played, there were hardly any folks past 30 playing anything.
They did figure out how to attract the older crowd to attend though.

Check out this buch of young'uns

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/video/video.php?v=1084181861433

How'd they manage to pull this off? I don't think they needed any of us oldens's

Barry

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,Golightly
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 10:10 AM

Shimrod, I think I agree with you. I'm always being told that my (baby boomer) age group is the largest section of the population, yet I never feel that I'm anyone's preferred market.
That doesn't stop me noticing things I might be interested in, though, and younger people have better access to information than previous generations did.

My feeling is that young festival-goers want to hang out together in places where they feel they're at a festival but don't have to pay to get in everywhere. Transport, accommodation and cost are possibly higher on their list of deterrents than on mine, but I genuinely do think there is already a healthy cohort of young 'uns at festivals.
I started off at well-known or very local events when I was younger, but resources and experience have led me to some brilliant smaller festivals. Maybe Rothbury (yes, I've been) is simply one of the ones people grow into.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: Beer
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 09:29 AM

Don't have the time right now to read all the threads that have come in but, if no one has mentioned it, I would suggest that you start a "Youth Stage".
We had our first festival last year which consisted of two main stages and one Y/Stage. The Y/S lasted for about an hour and a half. I drew my young musicians from private music teachers and music teachers in elementary schools. Hope this helps.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,Rothbury Traditional Music Festival
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 08:57 AM

Thanks guys!! All really helpful!! We have a facebook page.....Music-Festival Rothbury.

Please keep discussing....

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 03:48 PM

Putting your festival on facebook & MySpace would be a way to get your festival out to the younger folks. Any assistence in transportation might help though kids do have a knack for being resourcefull when it's a place they really WANT to attend. Camping I'd say isn't at all off topic. It affords the younger folk to cook their own food (which I always did & still do) which is far cheaper that buying food on site or locally (at least in my US experience), it's also far cheaper that finding a place to board too. I don't usually go to a festival & never had unless they have on site camping. One of the main attractions for me is the music that goes on during & after hours in the different camp sites (at least in the US, don't know about overseas), might be a bit similar to what the Europeans call "fringes".
If you get some of the younger players or singers that have a young following on your commitees, they may be the key to getting the young ones in?

Barry

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: matt milton
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 02:05 PM

"Brian Finnegan, Kathryn Tickell, Deaf Shepherd, Finlay MacDonald"

These are all fine musicians and no disrespect to them, but they're not really going to be attracting younger audiences.

If I were you, I would investigate musicians such as:

Alasdair Roberts, Mary Hampton, Lisa Knapp, Benjamin Wetherill, Tunng, Nancy Cunliffe, Michael Rossiter, Serious Sam Barrett, Nancy Wallace, Liz Green, David Thomas Broughton, the Woodlarks and others.... I could carry on all night with this list, but I would basically be replicating the gig bookings policy of clubs such as the Magpie's Nest, the Goose Is Out, the Lantern Society, the Dulcimer Club, Down at the Red Bricks, the Gladstone (in Borough), the Local (in Crouch End) and more....

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 01:51 PM

Leeneia - never mind the camping? how on earth is it NOT relevant to the thread's question of how to attract young people? where else are they going to sleep? of course accommodation is crucial to this question!

Chris's (and others') comments on this are highly relevant.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,Chris P
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 02:54 PM

Leeneia, I resent your tone and the suggestion that I am trying to hijack the thread for my personal concerns. My comments were to the point and intended to be helpful, and will be, I hope, considered or not by the people who have to make the decisions, not you. As will yours.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 11:15 AM

Never mind the camping, guest. People are just trying to hijack your thread with their personal concerns.

Ahem! You asked 'How do we attract the abundance of young musicians out there?'

How did you learn of this abundance of young musicians? Whatever the answer is, have festival people retrace their steps and send word to them that they are welcome and that there are activities they will enjoy.

For example, do you reach them through pubs, music stores, music teachers, schools, churches, or local newspapers? Once you reach them, offer complete information on the Internet.

The next thing is to have something for them at the festival. They might perform, listen, learn or be in a session. Whatever they do, make it clear where to go and what to do. Rent, borrow or contrive a screen and projector and put the tunes up for everybody to enjoy.

I would avoid the kind of session where 'we only play music that our leaders have memorized.'

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,Rothbury Traditional Music Festival
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 08:48 AM

We are very aware of the lack of camping however this has been in the past years a conscious decision due to major problems with our festival campsite.

The need to bring this back is obvious but not as easy as it sounds! Rothbury does not offer any camping so the festival would need to organise and manage this ourselves should be have one.

We would love to offer a festival campsite and are looking into the possibility. Any advice on management, the way other small festival campsites work etc would be greatfully taken!!

But i don't think we can blame the entire problem solely on the fact we don't have a campsite....

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 11:27 AM

The only person I know personally who's ever been to Rothbury is in his 70s and has a campervan. How many people under 50 have campervans?

Sort out transport and accommodation. If you get that right the music will happen. If you can't, just give up gracefully.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,Sandra
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 10:49 AM

A lot of comments on here are not helping Rothbury.

Book some young bands/acts and over time a youger audience will develope - surley that will be a healthy thing and something to be encouraged. Young people don't have two heads and can have an awful lot to offer. Personally I like them!

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 09:40 AM

Chris P has a point. If by "young" we mean "young enough that you're not likely to own a car", a festival as inaccessible by public transport as Rothbury is and with no walkable accommodation is never going to attract them. (By that criterion I'm nowhere near old enough at 59). Would Glastonbury ever have taken off if there's been a seven-mile walk from the stage to the campsite?

I've already posted this link in another thread, but here is my report on two festivals I went to this summer which, while they were quite small, had no problem at all attracting young people (look at the photos):

Hungarian music and dance camps in Romania

There are lots of those all over Hungary and Romania all summer.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,Chris P
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 07:25 AM

Haha,Richard! And I was racking my brains trying to remember what it was!
But seriously, I went to Rothbury a couple of years ago and we had to abandon the Saturday night session in the pub at the top of the village at 10pm, as some the punters were too drunk to stand up and we were afraid for our instruments. We set off for a quieter pub but the place was full of hordes of staggering drunks, so we headed for our tents. Which were seven miles away as there was no tent camping allowed anywhere near the village (so a friendly policeman had told us), and the festival provided none of its own. He implied the festival attracted roudy musicians but we formed the distinct impression that it was locals or near-locals that were the problem, not us.
Why would a youngster, or oldster for that matter, visit a festival for the w/e and have nowhere to have a good session on Saturday night and nowhere to stay the night?

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 07:06 AM

As far as I recollect being under 20 the thing that most attracted me to anything was the possibility of nookie.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 06:45 AM

Everything that has been said wil be taken on board of course!

Tha fact that i have not commented further is simply because i want to see what you - out potential audience - think.

It is also interesting to see that most of the posts have assumed that i am older, middle-aged or however you would like to describe, i am infact in my 20's!

To the guest who suggested Newcastle Uni, we have over recent years involved students and have received criticism, as was said by another guest, that we are being run by the folk degree course!

To this I say, unless we are able to reach those possibly further afield or who may not know about us, the enthusiasm of the students on the degree course is vital in keeping a younger element. Many of them have grown up coming to Rothbury in July and the fact that they now study at Newcastle Uni does not mean that we are a showcase for them.

To Wolfhound person, I am interested to know who the 'notable ones you've never booked' are? Also, 'paying inflated prices to be a bum-on-a-seat at a "star-studded" (usually = not local) concert.' to what does this refer?

We actively encourage sessions all over the village but this is not something we have the resources or time to arrange ourselves to such an extent. We are a very small committee!

We have indeed contacted the County Music Service and do work with local schools however, this is something we are hoping to increase over the next years.

We are planning a new event this year aimed at the younger generation....Battle of the Bands, to give those who perhaps don't have the voice of, for instance, the folk degree a chance to get themselves heard.

So please, keep posting!! We are here and hear you loud and clear!!!!

RTMF

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 11:04 AM

I see that the guest who started this thread has not come back. Are we wasting our time just talking to one another? Will good ideas ever be noticed?

Rothbury Traditional Music Festival, where art thou?

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 06:34 AM

I'm not sure that you can attract young people to things. Some of them will follow their own interests and inclinations and find you, whilst others will consider anything that older people do to be 'uncool' and people of their own age with enthusiasms to be 'nerds' and 'geeks'.

For example I am the chair of a local conservation group. One of our keenest members is a young lad of 15 (his poor dad has to accompany him to all of our events because of local authority regulations about the protection of minors). He got involved because he is a fan of the TV 'survival expert', Ray Mears. He wishes to know everything about the countryside so that he can emulate his hero. As a result he bombards me with questions which I am perfectly happy to answer or, if I don't know, point him in the right direction so that he can find out for himself.
On the other hand another local dad asked me to send him information about our group because he wanted to get his youngest son involved. A few weeks later I saw the youth in question and asked him if he was interested in joining; he replied, "no, it isn't cool enough" (there are actually tragic circumstances surrounding this case which I won't go into - I think that the poor lad had more on his mind than joining our group - so I just said, "Oh well, you have my phone number if you change your mind").
So, you win some and you lose some. I should say, though, that there is nothing worse than a middle-aged person trying to be 'cool' or an organisation that 'dumbs down' under the mistaken impression that it will attract certain demographics (such an approach is highly patronising for a start!).

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 10:33 PM

At the Youth Fest I mentioned above I didn't see any young'uns getting spoon fed. If anything they were spoon feeding their elders, them that could keep up with them.
As for dumbing down, these young'uns were in a class that was way above dumbing down. Thry these pictures of the BCM Fest

Warning there are over 400 pictures here most of this yrs festival some are of last yr's BCM Fest (Boston Celtic Music Festival) and some date back to the days of the Dudley Street Dance Hall era & the Irish Sessions of the 40's &50's. See this link to a book that gives the pictures & history of those days.
See You At the Hall . You may notice that the players like Joe Durane & many others were no older that the young'uns that are pictured at the BCM Fest. Funny how history repeats itself.
Photo's by Karin Joyce who's husband Joe (RIP) was a band leader of a dance hall band of those days & whose young daughter Cathrain (age 17, all Ireland fiddler) is to be seen playing fiddle & whistle on stage & elsewhere.
I remember my mother telling me she was just a teenager when she used to go dancing down at the Dudley St Irish dance halls (there were 5 large dance halls going on every night of the week, during it's hayday). Anyone that had an Irish connection or was Irish was there. Wednesday night was the big night though, all the servant girls had that night off.
(I said girls because this was a majority of young folks). Some of the musicians still play at the old timer's session that I hit on Monday nights & they keep the young'uns on their toes as much as the young'uns do the same to them. The circle of life.
Barry

Barry

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 07:53 PM

"This is the 'focus group mentality' and dumbing down gone mad! "

I don't think a single soul suggested anything about "dumbing down" or following the whims of a focus group. You don't stick the aspirin in the applesauce to get it down! There is a HUGE difference between that and observing what appeals to children and how to approach teaching.

"Dumbing down" is easily accomplished if you assume that what worked for you in the past will work for a generation in modern times.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 06:05 PM

"Keep the person who said 'Trying desperately to pander to their whims is just pathetic! What's the matter with you?' at least two miles from any children."

I assure you that I believe that the welfare and education of children are matters of the utmost seriousness. I also believe that 'pandering to their whims' and spoon feeding them what you think they might want does them no favours. This is the 'focus group mentality' and dumbing down gone mad!

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 05:56 PM

And if what you want is family participation, you can market to that angle, but if what you want is young adult participation (the bigger market segment) you will need market cultivation that is not aimed at their parents.

~S~

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 05:29 PM

"Why not try and remember what hooked you when you were young. Excitement? Passion? Whatever."

Exactly! But I absorbed the excitement and passion of my elders - who were not people who were desperately keen to appeal to my 'demographic' - they just did their thing and I responded to it.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 04:50 PM

Why not try and remember what hooked you when you were young. Excitement? Passion? Whatever.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 04:24 PM

"Children" get mobile and group bonded long before they move out. Remember your own childhood?!?!?

Festival wants their time or money, has to understand that?!?!?!

~S~

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 02:08 PM

As you are probably aware Richard, traditions evolve naturally. Traditions are not set in stone. I'm sure your traditions differ from the traditions of your parents.

You can certainly re-enact the past, but that is not the same as living a tradition.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 01:56 PM

I'm intrigued by this notion that children can have different traditions from those of thier parents. Don't they live in the same houses?

THey may well ahve different habits, but that is not the same thing.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 01:50 PM

Kids are people, they want to be treated as people and not as a market niche. I agree with the above: Take the time to learn their traditions and perhaps you will see how you can attract them to yours.

~S~

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 01:37 PM

1. Figure out the demographics. Young people who are attending with family need different things from young people who happen to live near the festival. Young spectators are different from young people who play an instrument.

2. Once you've done that, offer them something.

   How about contests with money prizes? Lots of prizes.

   Sessions aimed at introducing newbies (any age) to the music. Project the music on a screen so all can play.

   A chance to try the instruments. We call this 'an instrument petting zoo.'

   Lessons and workshops

3. Make it fun. Be friendly.

Keep the person who said 'Trying desperately to pander to their whims is just pathetic! What's the matter with you?' at least two miles from any children.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: Marje
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 12:23 PM

It's worth remembering that even if young people are not attracted in large numbers, it doesn't follow that the music will die out. Many, many people who are now involved in folk music and song have found their way into it at some stage in their adult lives - maybe in their 30s or 40s rather than teens and 20s.

For the music to survive, all that has to happen is for people of any age - not necessarily young - to become involved at a rate that will compensate for those who are dying off or losing the capacity to be active music-makers.

This is not to say that there's any reason not to encourage young people. Folkworks is active in that regio,n and runs many projects that attract young people to folk music - they might be able to help with support or publicity in some way.

Marje

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 12:06 PM

Apparently (according to another thread) I, as a thirty something am considered a "youngster" (not my words)! Also apparently (according to another thread) by the time I was in school during the seventies, Traditional English music song and dance had been dropped from the curriculum. Doesn't exactly astound me. I learned nothing about native traditions at school. I didn't even know there were any.

I only stumbled onto Trad recently. I can't say exactly why that is, except that (unlike lots of other kinds of music eg. Early English, Opera, Classical/Modern Classical, Plain Song, Jazz, Rock and Pop, Ambient and Trance, World and Fusion etc.) it simply never crossed my path.

I don't know why it didn't. But it just didn't. Perhaps that implies nothing but ignorance on my part, but I suspect that I may speak for the experience of others of my generation, too. I only heard the term 'Child Ballad' about two months ago. And I can promise you, that virtually no-one of my own aquaintance (bar one older music teacher) would know what I was talking about if I mentioned it in conversation, without explanation.

I'm sure their is a discerning 'younger audience' for Trad out there, and that they don't require anyone to dumb it down for them either. In fact from what I've picked up off Mudcat in the time I've been here, is that there is already a rapidly growing interest in younger people. But a little education and promotion directed at younger people can't hurt.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 11:37 AM

Hold on a second Shimmy - I am not a spring chicken either, and my comments were certainly not "ageist". Observing the truth is not being "ageist", nor am I telling you to ditch your tastes in music. IF you spent anytime reading these posts, you will see that I have similar tastes.

If anyone is being "ageist", it is probably you. I am not the one that made comments about "discerning" youth that gravitate to something I happen to enjoy. I am not the one who dismissed their musical tastes with comments like - "Why the fuck should we??"

I have not ignored your point, I just do not see the sky as falling. I think you are ignoring the facts that younger generations do have their own traditions as well as an interest in ours. Just do not look for a carbon copy.

Trust me, we can learn from the youth as well.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 11:31 AM

Ron,

Dead right I'm biased! But I'm not ageist like you - I'm not ashamed of being older or of having older friends. But that's irrelevant. This thread is about attracting young people to folk festivals and (presumably) to folk music. This often implies that we older folk should ditch our own tastes in music and change the medium in order to attract the youngsters. My response to that is B*LLOCKS! Why the f**k should we?   
I attended my first folk club at the age of 19, on the recommendation of one of my friends. The people who ran the club were older than me -they made me welcome but they didn't change anything on my account - and I'm very glad that they didn't.
My main point, though, which you have chosen to ignore, is that if the medium dies out because of lack of interest on the part of the younger generation that is (sort of) tragic - but such things happen and the only losers are the younger generation.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 11:27 AM

Advertised as Rothbury *Traditional Music* Festival, it would be good if there was space for some, not wall to wall Irish sessions.

It used to be known for the quality of its local performers, who not only played in the concerts but joined in the sessions. There's some notable ones you've never booked. There's quite a few not-so-notable ones who enjoy a good play, but couldn't care less about paying inflated prices to be a bum-on-a-seat at a "star-studded" (usually = not local) concert.

You have the kids competitions - very popular.
You have the adult competitions which are still popular.
You have a living tradition to draw from.
You have a village crawling with musicians looking for somewhere to play that isn't also crawling with bodhrans / inappropriate music styles for the title of the festival.

Have you tried contacting the County Music Service, the local musicians, the folk clubs (there's a difference!), the fiddle & accordion clubs.....

And to the poster who suggested the Folk Degree course, it's already being run by them to an extent, so are they solution, or in fact, problem?

Paws
(regular attendee for the last 15 years or more)

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 10:22 AM

"Why are you so desperate for young people to take part?"
Perhaps because some festivals are beginning to look like nursing home outings.

" If your particular interest is strong enough, the more discerning among the younger generation will discover it for themselves "
Sounds like a bias there. You make it sound as if the style of music you enjoy is somehow superior to what they are listening to. Obviously that is not the case, they are listening to music that speaks to their generation just like this music spoke to yours several decades ago. Times change.

Barry's note about CCE & Irish music circles here in the U.S. (and probably other countries) is right on the money. CCE introduced kids at a very young age and then the current events are all inclusive and supportive.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 08:58 AM

I wish that the world in general would stop f***ing worrying about how to attract young people to this, that and the other!! If some young people are attracted to your particular interest that is good and to be encouraged. If they're not attracted to it, it's their loss and you should just get on with it without them.

Trying desperately to pander to their whims (or trying to second guess what those whims might be) is just pathetic! What's the matter with you? Why are you so desperate for young people to take part? If your particular interest is strong enough, the more discerning among the younger generation will discover it for themselves (as I and my friends did); if not it will die out, as things do - tough!!

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: mattkeen
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 07:59 AM

I agree with gust gust

Young performers, promote to young people in a way that might appeal

Get some young people on your organising committee abd do what they say.

Subject: RE: Attracting youngsters 2 trad music fest?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 06:54 AM

If in your shoes, I'd book young performers with fresh ideas.
There's plenty of young audiences that are drawn to festivals with young bands, it's just finding them.

All the best :)