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Another pleading guitar thread

VirginiaTam 17 Jan 09 - 01:25 PM
peregrina 17 Jan 09 - 01:46 PM
Will Fly 17 Jan 09 - 01:48 PM
Nick 17 Jan 09 - 01:49 PM
Richard Bridge 17 Jan 09 - 01:57 PM
Richard Bridge 17 Jan 09 - 04:08 PM
Tangledwood 17 Jan 09 - 05:57 PM
Tangledwood 17 Jan 09 - 05:58 PM
VirginiaTam 18 Jan 09 - 05:04 AM
Richard Bridge 18 Jan 09 - 05:26 AM
Tangledwood 18 Jan 09 - 06:19 PM
GUEST,Claymore 18 Jan 09 - 06:24 PM
Amos 18 Jan 09 - 07:13 PM
VirginiaTam 19 Jan 09 - 02:32 PM
Richard Bridge 19 Jan 09 - 04:49 PM
Amos 19 Jan 09 - 05:37 PM
Bert 19 Jan 09 - 06:40 PM
Nick 20 Jan 09 - 01:42 PM
Nick 20 Jan 09 - 01:43 PM
Nick 20 Jan 09 - 01:45 PM
Richard Bridge 20 Jan 09 - 02:50 PM
VirginiaTam 20 Jan 09 - 03:07 PM
Abdul The Bul Bul 20 Jan 09 - 05:17 PM
GUEST,Richard Bridge 20 Jan 09 - 06:10 PM
Nick 20 Jan 09 - 06:57 PM
VirginiaTam 21 Jan 09 - 02:25 AM
VirginiaTam 21 Jan 09 - 02:27 AM
Richard Bridge 21 Jan 09 - 08:22 AM
VirginiaTam 22 Jan 09 - 01:17 PM
Terry McDonald 22 Jan 09 - 01:34 PM
Richard Bridge 22 Jan 09 - 01:59 PM
Terry McDonald 22 Jan 09 - 02:07 PM
vectis 23 Jan 09 - 08:45 AM
Nick 23 Jan 09 - 09:16 AM
VirginiaTam 26 Jan 09 - 11:58 PM
Abdul The Bul Bul 27 Jan 09 - 02:53 PM
Richard Bridge 27 Jan 09 - 02:57 PM
VirginiaTam 29 Jan 09 - 02:10 AM
Richard Bridge 29 Jan 09 - 05:24 AM
VirginiaTam 29 Jan 09 - 07:54 AM
Abdul The Bul Bul 29 Jan 09 - 08:48 AM
VirginiaTam 29 Jan 09 - 09:11 AM
VirginiaTam 29 Jan 09 - 09:39 AM
Richard Bridge 29 Jan 09 - 01:14 PM
Abdul The Bul Bul 29 Jan 09 - 03:25 PM
VirginiaTam 03 Mar 09 - 03:17 PM
Abdul The Bul Bul 03 Mar 09 - 03:23 PM
VirginiaTam 03 Mar 09 - 04:02 PM
Abdul The Bul Bul 04 Mar 09 - 10:33 AM
Bryn Pugh 04 Mar 09 - 11:12 AM
VirginiaTam 04 Mar 09 - 12:41 PM
PoppaGator 04 Mar 09 - 12:49 PM
VirginiaTam 04 Mar 09 - 01:02 PM
Richard Bridge 04 Mar 09 - 07:04 PM
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Subject: Another pleading guitar thread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 01:25 PM

I have searched the forum for advice and egods it is endless.

I am looking to buy a guitar now that the rheumatoid arthritis in my left wrist is somehow much better.

I found a beautiful Washburn D12 BR on ebay but I was outbid. Have been looking at the Ashbury AG10. It is not very expensive so I am wondering if it total crap.

I can't spend a lot - under £120. I am never going to be great, I may not be able to play often so I don't want to invest a lot.

I want acoustic, dreadnought, steel string, narrow neck, with smaller body, I think. No outrageous colours, fussy shaped soundplates or any other eye candy, please.

With occasional pain in my wrist and weakness in my arms I am trying to find an instrument that fits my illness.

A point in the direction of the appropriate thread(s) would be useful as would any advice.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: peregrina
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 01:46 PM

Newtone strings require lower tension than other strings of the same gauge so they mean less stress on the fingers of the left hand.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 01:48 PM

If you can get a s/h Tanglewood, they're worth looking out for. Other makes within your price range would be Cort and Crafter. There are also some Turner guitars.

Personally, I'd look out for a s/h model, rather than a new one, for the price you can afford. BUT it is essential to try thm in person, so beware eBay. In the end, it doesn't matter about the description - what matters is how the individual guitar suits you when you try it.
Ashbury is made (I believe) in China. I tried an Ashbury tenor guitar in a Hobgoblin branch and - for £170 - it wasn't bad.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Nick
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 01:49 PM

I have a Tanglewood I'm happy with and know a number of other friends who have them who like them. Reasonaly priced and widely available.

The thing that particularly drew me to it was its neck (I played a LOT of guitars when I was looking for a new one). Most guitars don't seem to differ dramatically on the width of the neck but they don't seem to on the thickness. I have an old Yamaha FG180 which I used to think had quite a thin neck but it feels like a block of wood comparatively. The nearest way I could describe its feel is like an electric guitars neck. It has a nice easy action and the sound is fine for me.

I'd be a little wary of ebay on an acoustic unless you can try it before you buy - to me the way a guitar feels in your hand is so important and they vary so much.

Am I right in thinking you know Richard Bridge? He is always very helpful on stuff like this.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 01:57 PM

I can lend you that little blonde that I somtimes play while you are looking.

Do NOT buy a guitar without expert assistance and remember that Brian Rodgers can fix ALMOST any playabiilty problems apart fromthose that need a neck set - and I can tell you what needs a neck set


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 04:08 PM

Oh, a dreadnought is a body size - the size of the Mugen (the all-brown one) I often play, or any of the Hagstroms. My sneaking suspicion is that you are going to find a dreadnought (or Jumbo, the only size bigger apart from some of the very rare 60s Garths, the Levin Goliath, and some Zemaitisses (don't go there, many thousands of pounds each)) tough to reach round,, an dso start adding shoulder to your arm and wrist issues.

Normally I say just learn to hold it differently, the body is what makes the sound (you will have noticed that I have to play the guitar alongside my beer gut, because if I put it in front of it I would need very long arms) but your case may be different.

My Martin is OM size - smaller body but quite deep.

You could try an O, an OO or an OOO. The Lamaq (the blonde) is probably about an OO, but shallow and with a cutaway. I'll see if I have got a set of 11s (light strings) in stock and put them on for you to try if I have.

I do NOT recommend any of the otherwise tempting shallow plastic bowlbacks. The necks and bodies will probably suit you after Rodgers has fixed the action, but most have no balls to the sound.

The other problem is your excellent voice. You will overpower a crap guitar, and it will be a curious feeling if your voice resonance (and you are still trying to go lower) is lower than the guitar.

Once you have found something you can play, it may be smart to experiment with some low tunings, and small-bodied cutaway guitars are not the natural home for such things. Sheppey Paul often plays in open C - well down.

Experiment!

At this stage do not buy blind: remember the trouble Pierre le Chapeau had with his mandolin when he ignored my advice! Of course to every rule there is an exception. I bought the mandolin you have bilnd but the restorer in France set the action down to my (ie Brian Rodgers') spec before shipping - and it still cost me only £70 delivered and I think the sound and playability are delightful!!


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Tangledwood
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 05:57 PM

Add another vote for Tanglewood, but I certainly think that you should have the opportunity to try any instrument before buying. That pretty well rules out buying on line I think.
A smaller instrument may not necessarily be more comfortable to play. My manodlin tends to cause a few twinges that the guitar doesn't.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Tangledwood
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 05:58 PM

Ahem . . so does the mandolin.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 05:04 AM

Don't know what happened to the post I submitted last night. Seems to have been superceded by Richard's second post.

I can lend you that little blonde that I somtimes play while you are looking.

I can't help looking Richard, I find your fingers so fascinating. Must be the Volvo engine grease beneath your nails.

Really you are too kind to offer loan of the blonde, especially as I now have the little mando from you on loan. I think it best to go forth to music shops (James Dace or Allegro) and try guitars on for size and sound and comfort. I may check out cash converters (pawn shops) only to try.

Would rather not get accustomed to your blonde when I should be learning my own instrument. (That is vaguely obscene sounding.)

At the moment I have pulled out a junior sized Encore classical. Don't know if it was Chris' or one of his kids (an Argos bought Christmas prezzie from years ago). Sounds awful but the size of neck and body feel good, if that makes any sense. So I am just practicing chords and transitions on it.

I don't know from capo and getting guitar to play in my range. I am not a musician in the technical sense. I just pick instruments up and start playing them, usually by watching and copying, sometimes picking out by ear. Not much thought and no academic knowledge goes into it.

I would like to change fact that but I doubt I have the mental power and attention span to do it. Maybe I should get one of those Chordeilia thingies. Shudder.

What you say about my voice and singing so low, worries me. I used to accompany myself singing but my range has changed. Should I be bothering with guitar if can't get one down in my range.

Hhhmmmm... more stuff to think about.

Thanks to everyone for ideas and advice.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 05:26 AM

VT - pick up PM


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Tangledwood
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 06:19 PM

"What you say about my voice and singing so low, worries me. I used to accompany myself singing but my range has changed. Should I be bothering with guitar if can't get one down in my range."

Sopranos can sing with cellos and basses can sing with mandolins. As long as you're in the same key it doesn't matter how many octaves difference there maybe. This is where the capo comes into play. You learn to play a song in, for example, C but that doesn't suit your voice. Slide the capo up a couple of frets but use the same fingering. Does that suit? Not quite, OK try going up one more. Seems about right? OK, you're now playing in Eb without having had to learn any new or difficult chords.


" . . . . . I doubt I have the mental power and attention span to do it"

It's presumptious of me to tell a stranger something that I haven't always followed myself, but don't talk yourself into failure or just inaction. A new fact once a day or a new chord once a week and by next Christmas you'll be amazed at where you've got to.
(hope that doesn't sound condescending - it's not meant to.)


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 06:24 PM

I would try an Art & Lutherie (A&L) as an easy playing, inexpensive but good sounding guitar. I particularly like the solid cedar top, cherry ply side and back model, which plays very well with medium light strings. In fact I use mine as a specifically strung "Dropped D" model and that tuning matches the guitars natural "Hoo tone".

Good Luck! _


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Amos
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 07:13 PM

If you can learn about eight chords more or less and learn to use a capo, you can play in any key you like to sing in simply by capoing. You need to master the intervals in the simple major scale, which are usually counted by half-tones. From C to D is two half tones. From D to E is also. But if you observe the white keys on a piano starting from one of the "C" keys you will find that the scale of C, which is all white keys, has the following intervals in half-steps:

--2-2-1-2-2-2-1
C-D-E-F-G-A_B-C


All major scales have the same pattern of INTERVALS regardless of what notes they contain.

THe total is 12 half tones making up an octave. If you like playing in C, for example, but you need to sing in F, you have to raise the tone 5 half-tones, which means you put the capo on the fifth fret and play C chords to make sounds in the key of F.

I KNOW this may LOOK complex, but if you break it down to fundamental concepts and get your arms around it, so to speak, you will indeed suddenly find yourself being able to transpose any played key into some other sung key with relative ease. Studying the notes on a piano keyboard will help.

Amos


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 02:32 PM

Richard - How would I recognise if a guitar needed a neck set or not?

Tanglewood - thanks for the advice I am looking at Tanglewoods and will try to practice the tips you offered.

Claymore - A&L very pretty, but out of my price range.

Amos - huh? I know the notes on piano. I taught myself to play when I was a teen. No keyboard available to me now. If someone played me a note I would not be able to name it. Much less a chord.

I knew and played about 10 or 12 chords on guitar back in the day, however if someone else played them to me without my seeing it played, I couldn't tell you what chord was being played.

How does one learn to know a note or chord by ear?

My daughter had perfect pitch. At about 8 or 9 she could tell what key a song was in and that without any music lessons. My Gammy (grandmother) could and my brother still does.

How?


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 04:49 PM

I don't believe there is such a thing as "perfect pitch". Pitch is a matter of convention. Today we pitch, by convention, at A=440Hz The customary medieval pitch is A=415 Hz. So a person with perfect pitch and a time machine would enter today knowing the piano note just played to him was (say) A and come out knowing that the same note was nearly Bb.

You will get by with a capo and the following chords: -

A, Am
Bm
C
D, Dm
E, Em
F (maybe Fm)
F#m
G


Some are handy in more than one position. Occasionally Bb is useful.

7ths (technically, flattened 7ths) are not really needed in English folk song. In American folk song you can usefully add

A7
B7
C7
D7
E7, Em7
G6, G7

In English music I fairly often use D9 and A9. James Brown's rhythm guitarist made a living out of E9 and B9

The barre chords of course go all the way up and down.

And so to neck sets.

The problem is that first you need the neck relief (or progression) to be right. Put a capo on at the first fret, and using a finger push the string to the fret where the neck meets the body. Using feeler guages, measure the clearance beween the bottom E string and the fret at the 7th fret. It should be about 0.25mm. Adjust using the truss rod.

Or you could hope that it is OK - in which case the next bit gets a bit less precise.

Most guitar scale lengths are between 24 7/8 inches (typical Gibson) and 26 inches (some Japanese guitars) but more commonly 25 1/4 inches.

You need a straightedge 24 or 24 1/2 inches long.

Put the straight edge on the frets. Slide it towards the saddle.

At one extreme, it may just clear the bridgeplate, and slide to hit the saddle.    If it clears the bridge plate by more than a smidgeon it's bad - but that is most most unlikely, the laws of physics work in the opposite direction.

It is OK for the edge of the straightedge to finish up hitting the bridgeplate by about 1/16 inch, or even 1/8 inch.

If it is more - worry. Probably avoid the guitar.

If the straightedge hits the top (face) of the guitar before hitting the bridge plate - pass for sure. It needs the neck taking off and putting back on again different. This is not hard on most bolt-on necks (certainly most EKOs and some Hagstroms). It is a nightmare with a so-called "set-neck" where the neck is attached to the body with a "dovetail" joint.

Hasta la Vista.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 05:37 PM

Yu don't need perfect pitch, VT. I am just pointing out how we typically go up the scale, which you can emulate by placing a capo the appropriate number of frets upward. The only reason to know the theory behind it, I guess, is so you can name what key you end up sinigng in. Or, be able to play some key someone else has named. If you can only play C, F, and G, but you need to sing in the key of "E", you add four half tones by capoing on the forth fret, and you are thus playing in E using "C" fingerings.


A


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Bert
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 06:40 PM

You might try a Yamaha. I bought a cheap one years ago and it has served me well.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Nick
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 01:42 PM

Richard - Patrick Moore has perfect pitch (reference! ) - I saw him demonstrate it once on Parkinson (?) or similar programme. Few people have it and I've often wondered if it's an annoyance knowing someone isn't quite playing bang on pitch...

VT - Relative pitch is a more useful thing in real terms. Quite a lot of people I know can get pretty close to a note because of familiarity but it's not the same as being able to pitch a note at will (which is pretty unnecessary). Better to find out a range that you are happy to sing a particular song in and then adjust the chords accordingly.

If you have a song that has three chords in it (eg G C D) then sing the song against those chords. If it's dead right fine; if not then use a capo to adjust it up. If you get up past the 6th fret and haven't found a key then you might want to start with no capo and use the following chords D G A as they have the same relationship to each other as G C D ie the 1st note of the scale, the fourth and the fifth.

If you then move your capo up one fret at a time you'll hopefully find an ok key to sing in.

If you get to the 5th fret without finding one that's ok the it's probably not the song for you as you've gone through all the possible keys!


Here's a G chord
=====================
|   |   |   |   |   |
---------------------
|   X   |   |   |   |
---------------------
X   |   |   |   |   X
---------------------

and here's a D chord
=====================
|   |   |   |   |   |
---------------------
|   |   |   X   |   X
---------------------
|   |   |   |   X   |
---------------------

When you put a capo on the first fret in effect you are moving your
starting point of your G chord up one so that's G#. A capo on the
second fret is like moving your finger up two frets so playing in A etc. Same with the D chords. Each time you move the capo up the guitar it's like moving your finger up the string the same number of frets - so capo at 4th fret with a D chord moves the root note of the chord to F# so that's what you are playing in

========D============
|   |   Eb      |   |
---------------------
|   |   E   |   |   |
---------------------
G   |   F   |   |   |
---------------------
G# |   F# |   |   |
---------------------
A   |   G   |   |   |
---------------------
Bb |   |   |   |   |
---------------------
B   |   |   |   |   |
---------------------
C   |   |   |   |   |
---------------------
C# |   |   |   |   |
---------------------


Clear as mud probably but it makes sense to me :) !!

You could always have a copy of my Capo Calculator which I made for a laugh one afternoon (the site was down a minute ago but should work at some stage)


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Nick
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 01:43 PM

Sorry about that it came out weirdly on the line lengths


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Nick
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 01:45 PM

I'll try again because that was unreadable

Richard - Patrick Moore has perfect pitch (reference! ) - I saw him demonstrate it once on Parkinson (?) or similar programme. Few people have it and I've often wondered if it's an annoyance knowing someone isn't quite playing bang on pitch...

VT - Relative pitch is a more useful thing in real terms. Quite a lot of people I know can get pretty close to a note because of familiarity but it's not the same as being able to pitch a note at will (which is pretty unnecessary). Better to find out a range that you are happy to sing a particular song in and then adjust the chords accordingly.

If you have a song that has three chords in it (eg G C D) then sing the song against those chords. If it's dead right fine; if not then use a capo to adjust it up. If you get up past the 6th fret and haven't found a key then you might want to start with no capo and use the following chords D G A as they have the same relationship to each other as G C D ie the 1st note of the scale, the fourth and the fifth.

If you then move your capo up one fret at a time you'll hopefully find an ok key to sing in.

If you get to the 5th fret without finding one that's ok the it's probably not the song for you as you've gone through all the possible keys!


Here's a G chord
=====================
|   |   |   |   |   |
---------------------
|   X   |   |   |   |
---------------------
X   |   |   |   |   X
---------------------

and here's a D chord
=====================
|   |   |   |   |   |
---------------------
|   |   |   X   |   X
---------------------
|   |   |   |   X   |
---------------------

When you put a capo on the first fret in effect you are moving your
starting point of your G chord up one so that's G#. A capo on the
second fret is like moving your finger up two frets so playing in A
etc. Same with the D chords. Each time you move the capo up the
guitar it's like moving your finger up the string the same number of
frets - so capo at 4th fret with a D chord moves the root note of the
chord to F# so that's what you are playing in

========D============
|   |   Eb      |   |
---------------------
|   |   E   |   |   |
---------------------
G   |   F   |   |   |
---------------------
G# |   F# |   |   |
---------------------
A   |   G   |   |   |
---------------------
Bb |   |   |   |   |
---------------------
B   |   |   |   |   |
---------------------
C   |   |   |   |   |
---------------------
C# |   |   |   |   |
---------------------


Clear as mud probably but it makes sense to me :) !!

You could always have a copy of my Capo Calculator which I made for a laugh one afternoon (the site was down a minute ago but should work at some stage)


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 02:50 PM

Nick - you have not understood. A person may be able to pitch perfectly to a frequency by specification, but since the pitches have moved by definition, what was once perfect is not now and vice versa, therefore there is no such thing as universally perfect pitch. It HAS to be a learned phenomenon.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 03:07 PM

uurrghh!?!?!

nice pictures with exes and dashes and lineses and lettereses.

I will have to read all again as I put into practice... whenever I get a blinking guitar and a capo.

Pity the Capo Calculator got 404 error.

Richard - I do understand what you are saying about the neck set. I will go with print out of your advice and a straight edge.

Thanks all

BTW - I remember yonks ago, there was much sought after deaf piano tuner in Central Virginia. I guess he tuned by feeling the vibarations. Pretty cool that.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 05:17 PM

Blimey.
Virgina, you get a guitar, buy a book that shows you how to play and practice changing chord shapes for as much time as you have. The book will show you the shapes.
You don't to even think about syuff like perfect pitch or stuff like that. You'll make your own way through it all, same as we all did.

I seem to have found a guitar that suits me, it's a Crafter and I seem to pick it up every time I want to play.
I have a mahagany Sigma DM4M that I used before that, with Newtone strings and you may like it. Lovely tone and a reasonably narrow neck. Good action, no need for a straight edge.
It would be in your price range and you are quite welcome to use it for a while to see if you get on with it.
I don't know where you are based but it doesn't sound too far away, I'm in Whitstable and you can find me at Faversham or Whitstable folk clubs or PM me for email address.
Anyway, good luck with your quest.

Al


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 06:10 PM

VT, I strongly recommend that - the Sigma DM4s usually sound good and the necks are narrow if a smidgeon deep. Try it.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Nick
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 06:57 PM

I understood what you meant, Richard.

This article discusses the point you made. Nature or nurture? Let's not go there.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 02:25 AM

my Andie was doing spot on vocal arpeggios at 11 months and mimicking tunes impeccably before she could form full sentences. She could hear and mimic harmonies at 6 or 7 years and started constructing by ear on the spot harmonies and descants when she was 11 or 12. She never had formal training beyond what was offered in woefully inadequate Virginia rural school system.

She was constantly exposed to music from birth, ususally FM radio Rock, some classical, weekend church hymns and me singing any and everything in between.

I used to think and still do that she not only did sing but was she was SONG itself. I know that statement seems like grief induced maudlin rubbish. But there ya go.

I came from a house full of singers and musicians (generations of singers and musos) and I couldn't carry a tune if it had a handle on it until I 14. When I started teaching myself piano something connected.

So taking those 2 scenarios was that nurture or nature?

Al think I would like to check out that Sigma. I will PM you.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 02:27 AM

uuurrghh! I should have said thank you to Al for the kind offer and to everyone.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 08:22 AM

Nick, the study appears (I ahve only flicked at it) to be limited to those alleged to have absolute pitch, and shows a marked inability to distinguish G# from A - possibly because of habituity in hearing material at the older tuning pitches) so I think it makes my point - "absolute pich" may perhaps exist, but not by nomenclature since A is not constant.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 01:17 PM

Al

I have emailed you re collection of guitar.

Thanks to everyone.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 01:34 PM

Richard - my middle son has always had 'perfect pitch.' He can tell you exactly what key any piece of music is in immediately he hears it and can name any chord you care to play (without looking at the hand psoition). We first became aware of this when he was about eleven or twelve and the theme from M.A.S.H. was on the car radio.He said 'that's being played in (say) G when it's in (say)Eb on television.' He's had very little musical training, his guitar tutor gave up on him because he would simply play from memory the piece they were supposed to be learning after hearing it only once. As far as I've always understand the term, he has 'perfect pitch.'


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 01:59 PM

He hears with precision the current convention.

If he went back in a time machine, he'd come out and say "that's in Ab" - because they would be playing it in A=415 (almost exactly Ab) in stead of A=440 - and they'd say "No, it's in A!.

THat's why I say that it cannot be innate, but must be learned.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 02:07 PM

OK - interesting thought! Wish I had his ability, though.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: vectis
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 08:45 AM

If you want a dreadnaught with a narrow neck I would also recommend the Yamaha FG series. I have a classic 140 but there are 180s and others out there which can be bought very cheaply. The tone of the early ones is hard to beat and they are so responsive they don't mind being run on lightweight strings which won't stress your arthritic fingers.
The necks are very narrow because they are Martin copies.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Nick
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 09:16 AM

I have an old FG180 (from the early 1970's) but the neck feels huge compared with the Tanglewood I play - it's not the width of the neck rather the thickness of the neck (I'm sure there is a proper term for this) that makes it feel quite big


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 11:58 PM

Well I now have the loan of a lovely Sigma Dm4M from Abdul the Bul Bul. It has wonderful sound. Feels so good I am loathe to put it down. My left fingertips are so sore.

It is still in tune after Sunday night tuning. Amazing for a new set of strings. I plan to perform with it next week at Blackmore session.

Yippee!

Thank you everyone and especially Al who loaned the guitar and RB who advised I take up the offer.

Really should post a link to this thread on the Kindness of Mudcatters thread. I think there is such a thread.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 02:53 PM

Aha VT, they are not just strings.... they are NEWTONE strings.
0.12 - 0.54 Signature series. Meant to leave the packet insert with you but forgot in my rush to get to the pub.
If you have trouble getting any, let me know I know a local 'Roy' who does em.
Work on those callouses.

Al


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 02:57 PM

Actually, I'm not a Newtone fan. I put some on the Hagstrom (the one I was playing at Stoke on 25 Jan) and they were only the second set of strings I'd taken off before they were played out. Brain Rodgers will supply them locally to me and he likes them on his Martins.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 02:10 AM

Newtones are brilliant.

First time I had to adjust the tuning was this morning. Only the E (sixth) string a tiny bit.

Just about have House of the Rising Sun down. Relearned Dust in the Wind last night. Gonna search out chords for some new Odetta songs this weekend.

This guitar! She is delightful she is charming. I get up out of bed properly an hour earlier now to play with her. I am loathe leave her to go to work in the mornings.

I would just love to have my old rocking chair on my old front porch in a loblolly pine forest again. That would be heaven.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 05:24 AM

It looked like a boy guitar to me...


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 07:54 AM

lol - funny you should say that. I was thinking this morning how much more comfortable the guitar would be if there were an indentation in the back to accommodate for breasts. I should put that on the Guitar nipple thread.

Or design the guitar bra for women of a certain endowment.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 08:48 AM

Thats the one thing I have found awkward when discussing 'the sigma' Tam, I noted you using 'she' and didn't feel comfortable responding that way. It's a physical relationship, strapping the thing on and neck, body shape, finge...playing it. erm...better stop there I think. Anyway, for the same reasons I don't call it 'he'!

I am happy that you feel the same way about the voice though.

Well done in rescuing the thread from obscurity too!

Now to go look up the guitar nipple thread.

Al


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 09:11 AM

Guitar Bra

Not exactly what I had in mind.

You are right Al, the shape, the foreplay, etc. But does that mean I have latent lesbian tendancies that I take out on my stringed instruments?

It is funny I never genderised my harmonica, the piano or my recorder.

I checked there is not a gender/instrument thread on Mudcat. I should start one.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 09:39 AM

patent

Well, I never!


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 01:14 PM

That's a very good example of why reform of the US patent system is on the agenda for many IP lawyers.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 03:25 PM

And a very good example of turning up the completely unexpected.
Bet he didn't sell many.
Al


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 03:17 PM

UPDATE- on how I'm doing with my toy (thanks to Abdul the Bul Bul).

Lovely Sigma DM4M - I play her every day. SometimeS twice a day. 10 to 15 minutes in the morning. Hour or more in the evening. Weekends longer and more often.

BUT NOT TONIGHT! I burned my right thumb making dinner. Damned brocolli.

I can now play

House of the Rising Sun
Erie Canal
Gey Funnel Line
Sail Away Ladies
Midnight Special

What I need to do is learn some different strum patterns and fingerstyles.

Also want to be comfortable with variation and improvisation within certain pieces too, intead of straight strum or one boring fingerstyle.

Now eagerly awaiting some recently ordered tuition DVDs to arrive.

Think I will practice mandolin this evening. Shouldn't hurt ot hold a pick.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 03:23 PM

Roll on the 22nd. I'm waiting to hear you both.
Burned on broccoli!! How can you do that????

Al


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 04:02 PM

Al - Stoke is on the 29th. Decided due to fact that 22nd is Mothering Sunday and most can't attend.

Well as I am on a different diet than Chris and he was using most of the stove and sauce pans for his dinner, I was steaming my brocolli in the microwave. Pulled dish out with oven gloves on, some of the liquid was sopped up by oven glove and burned my thumb. As I have trouble sensing heat in my hands and arms (nerve thing) I get burned quite often. Scalding water, frying and sauce pans, the iron. These are not my friends.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 04 Mar 09 - 10:33 AM

Can't beleive I'm still confusing the date!!.
Postie brought your card today. Thank you.
Take care, burned fingers don't sit well with guitar practice.

Al


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 04 Mar 09 - 11:12 AM

Dear VT,

If you can find a s/h Tanglewood, try her.

The one I play, and my beloved bought her for me, brand new - might have been luthiered just for me.

Try "La Bella" Silk and Steel strings, too - I have used these for over 40 years, Martin Silk and Steeel are a reasonable "second best".

The medium strings start with an eleven thou. first.

Kushti bakt, Bryn


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 04 Mar 09 - 12:41 PM

Bryn - Thanks but I am covered. See post
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 03:17 PM

I will check out the strings you advised when replacement needed as current Newtones do seem a bit soft. Depends on whether the arthritis behaves itself.

Must add to the list of potential enemies of my hand health. Flipping door handles. 2 bashes to right hand in less than 15 minutes this evening. I am such a total clutz. I need a little sign burned on my retina - Objects in your visual range are closer than they appear!

Al - good to know card and cheque arrived safely. Also good to know that task taken care of. It would have had it niggling at back of mind if I had put it off any longer.


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: PoppaGator
Date: 04 Mar 09 - 12:49 PM

"The medium strings start with an eleven thou. first."

In the world of steel and bronze acoustic guitar strings, mediums are "13s" and lights are "12s" (where the number is the size of the high-E string). "11s" would be extra-light.

Are silk-and-steels sized that much differently?


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 04 Mar 09 - 01:02 PM

I forgot to jump up and down for joy. Guitar is now mine. Officially mine. Mine Mine Mine! WHEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: Another pleading guitar thread
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Mar 09 - 07:04 PM

I would strongly recommend against Silk and Steel. It is the tension in the strings that makes the top of the guitar move - and that is where the boom and the harmonics, the richness, come from.


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