Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 04:34 PM

Prissy funger pickers against
THE Bogie!

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 01:00 PM

wodja think....Prissy Finger Pickers Against the Bomb!

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 07:32 AM

Its first I heard of it but I do recall seeing atiny little gadget about.
Its a good recording aint it?
Its fine by me,I like it that you can hear fiddle and voices joining in.
Thanks mate

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Nick
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 07:29 PM

Tim

Agree with Al I think you've grown so much as a singer, guitarist and performer since I first heard you. I particularly liked Somebody's Missing Tonight and Rhyme and Reason of the Myspace ones and I now know what the song below's title is though I've heard it a number of times.

Not sure if I ever sent you a link to this - Belt Buckle Live - if you don't like it I'll delete it but your visit coincided with me testing out my Zoom recorder so you were captured on it back in March of last year.

All the best and keep plucking them strings

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 06:32 PM

how much would it be worth in gold. they could have my yamaha and several others for its weight in gold.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 05:40 PM

LOL
Another sleepless night sat in me van watchin the trains go by.
My Takamini has been worth its weight in gold.
Thank you both for the comments BTW I really do apreciate them.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Bruce MacNeill
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 05:32 PM

Tim, I was from New England and we didn't have an accent either, at least not noticably, until I moved away. Which got me to thinking that maybe my picking is prissy so I don't think your prissy fingerpicking is prissy. Another sleepless night coming worrying about this thread. Your writing isn't prissy.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 03:59 PM

Actualy I have heard a lot more than those I mentioned,and if you can tear yourself away from the "names" there are a lot of awe inspiring musicians just living quietly in the houses of the towns where you live.
Among them many excellent guitar players.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 03:55 PM

Cheers guys.
I have cold at the moment so I sound even odder than usual.
I dont listen to a lot of popular music now and havent since about 1989
Awful confession aint it?
So any influences are from me youth or people I hear live in pubs clubs and singarounds.
Also Grimsby ,where I live,is the only place in the uk that has no accent. lol
The names are left out to protect me dangly bits.
Well wld as I typed earlier I have heard your performance and Dougs and Nicks and my tutor was or is Dick Appleton.
I just keep trying to write a song I like.
So 1 says prissy and 1 not.
LOL

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 02:22 PM

Wow - its a while since I heard your work Tim - you've come on one hell of a lot. The guitar playing is particularly impressive. there are all kinds of influences in there - Rambling Jack Elliot, Broonzy, Reverend Gary Davis - I don't know who you've been listening to - but somebody damn good!

And I bore people wityh my opinions but to me - songwriting like ours - because it is more deeply rooted in the way people speak nowadays and the way they sing - has a superior claim to be legtimate tradition of England. Rather than some selfconsciously archaic form.

I'm sure youre aware of the problems with recording yourself. Always remember the guitar only has a support role, the star of the show is the voice and the song is the bit Shakespeare would have written. When you have something to say - be more specific - name names, give dates, and punch the people you don't like on the nose. they won't know its them you're talking about - they never do!

Well done and keep up that prissy fingerpicking!

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Bruce MacNeill
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 02:03 PM

I have the upmost admiration for anyone who writes their own songs. I hadn't listened to any of yours' before but from what I just heard, you're good at it. Strangely though, you don't sound British. The songs also seem to have an American flavor, if you'll pardon the thought. I wondered if you intentionally imitated that genre or if it is just coincidence. Sorry but I'm across the pond and generally have trouble understanding the various dialects of English I find on U.K. sites. The songs, and guitar, are great. Not prissy in my opinion.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 01:28 PM

I have never found a hobby or pastime so obsorbing as trying to play my guitar.
I have usualy gotten to the end of my interest in things after a couple of years and moved on to new stuff.
I am crap at normaly structured learning,my long suffering guitar tutor would attest to that.
So how it goes now is that I write a song incorporating something new (to me) in the way of playing.
Then by the time I have learned me new song I have also had several hours practice on the guitar.
It just works better for me.
Though I doubt it will ever create as good player out of me,as formal training may..at least I am enjoying it.
We each attain what we can dont we.
I have heard WLD and Dougie and Nick play,all completely different sounds and materiel all very good.
I know that most of the people I meet anywere who play are likely to have better technique or better knowledge of music or more tallent or years more experience.
But the majority of them are good enough to give a few tips and hints.
I have just posted a couple of new songs on myspace and if anyof you have the time or inclination I would apreciate your comments.
Cheers.
http://www.myspace.com/timleaning

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 05:05 AM

I suspect for those of us not blessed with your mercurial talent Ian, fingerpicking is the start of a lifetime's apprenticeship.

And furthermore even a cursory glance round at the achievements all around us on the folkscene, reveals peaks most of can never even aspire to.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 09:06 PM

Horses for courses Weelittledrummer!

I picked up finger picking as I went along. New song I want to do? - so work out a pick to suite the song. I put a bit of effort in when I was learning - homework for the evening class where I did the classical basic pick for a couple of terms. But I don't ever remember studying complex texts on picking, I never copied from heros or anything like that - and recommend evolution to develop a good range of styles, based on having the style follow what you want to do - not the other way round.

But as a former guitar teacher, I know that some students have to learn the structured way. Again: horses...

Ian Fyvie

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 05:25 PM

' I'm not against anyone doing a University degree in understanding finger pick if they want to'

big of you - if only it were that easy. University courses only last three years, and they're mainly for people who are dodging the column when it comes to work. To finger pick well - you need focus and application and longer than three years.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 09:22 PM

I thought the reason we finger pick when we perform at the folk club was to enhance our songs. Sorry, M.ted never got round to underastanding the picks I do - just do them, and they seem to go down well.

But I'm not against anyone doing a University degree in understanding finger pick if they want to. A bit sad I would have thought but each to her/his own...

Ian Fyvie

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Nick
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 08:34 PM

Faye

I have memories of John Renbourn, fag dangling from side of mouth, playing jazzy stuff on an electric guitar in Pentangle days on things like 'So Clear', though most times I have seen him it has just been an acoustic. Not prissy though.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 08:53 AM

Another tip - if you're going to work unamplified - use as many open strings as you can. Unless your actually bashing the strings a blocked chord has less volume. this si why open tunings are so popular with folk players - the more open strings - the more resonance.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 08:28 AM

In teresting Tim.

i went through the same sort of thing early in my career as a performer. the way I got round it was to get Rob Armstrong to build me a guitar with a huge body - bigger than a J200 - but with very light varnish - it had huge projection.

With more experience, and more confidence I found I could pretty much manage with any guitar bigger than say a concert size (the yamaha cpx range). I still prefer to sing with a PA and if possible with my guitar plugged in.

If you are talking about session playing I recommend Alastair Russel's dvd on celtic guitar. Its very straight - no bullshit, and you need a need a plectrum! I use a thumbpick if I'm going to sing at a session usually - and the technique reminds me somewhat of what Private Investigator Philip Marlowe said about controlling an idiot at gunpoint - keep it simple, and don't change your mind!

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 01:31 AM

I play both with picks and with bare fingers and have no trouble swapping between the two. I use a large plastic thumb pick and three medium plastic fingerpicks. While I admit I mainly use picks for increased volume, some tunes are just better played with picks than without, even if I my guitar is plugged in to a PA. I like the crisp feel and sound that they give.

For the banjo, I prefer bare fingers but I am forced to use picks for volume in anywhere bigger than my living room.

DC

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 02:07 PM

If your guitar is too quiet, you either
1. sing quieter
2. get a louder guitar; or
3. play your present guitar louder.

If you need fingerpicks to go louder and they are a problem, remember the old saying?

"How do I get to the Albert Hall"? Practise!

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 01:25 PM

I find the finger and thumb picks both uncomfortable and,for me,inaccurate.
Luckily I dont have to play to an audience and me gob and me gutiar are about as loud as each other.
I mean I dont get gigs so am usualy just taking a turn around the room.
Sad to say it seems almost obligatory for some sort of sound enhancment to be used in larger venues.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Faye Roche
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 12:06 PM

"With no offense intended to Will, here's how Travis picking is really done, from the man who learned it at his father's kneeThom Bresh--I'll See You in My Dreams"

Thanks to all of you who posted YouTube links- there is some really good stuff on there. My favourite is the one above, though it did make me feel like selling my guitar...

For me "prissy" refers to the way that some people play arpeggios up and down the strings in a repeated rhythm with no variation or dynamics, usually to accompany a sweet rendition of a ballad in a high voice.

One of my favourite guitarists is John Renbourn, who has never, as far as I've heard, played anything other than fingerstyle. (OK- correct me if I'm wrong, but this style is mainly what he is known for isn't it?) He brings our subtleties in the instrument that you couldn't achieve with a pick.

However, if there's one guitar style that I absolutely hate above all others, its the frantic full-on strumming that some singer-songwriters give their instruments. Perhaps they think that by thrashing their guitars to within an inch of their lives they will add excitement to the bland, self-indulgent rubbish that they write...

I hate this style even more when it's applied to Irish music, and once had to leave the room during a session at a folk festival when a 12-string player (twice the volume as well!) went berserk, squeezing in as many beats as possible, completely obliterating the lead instruments (who were all excellent players, which made it doubly frustrating) and murdering everything that the others were playing.

On a practical level, the one problem I have with fingerstyle playing is that of getting enough volume, especially in a big room. I can't adapt to finger and thumb picks. I've sometimes thought of getting one of those little battery-powered amps to help out. What's the opinion on using these in an otherwise acoustic environment? I have quite good voice projection as I went to singing lessons when I was younger, but people have sometimes said that they can't hear my guitar very well at the back of the room.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 05:49 PM

Well it was at least good natured.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 07:25 PM

There sure is prissy galore in this good thread. ;-)

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 03:35 PM

Whatever turns you off

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 02:50 PM

Whatever the OP's choice of words, I think he touched off a very interesting thread.

The only boring parts have been the arguments about whether he should have used the word "prissy"; now, the jokes about the word "prissy," those I enjoyed...

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 02:39 PM

so just the basques and wigs to worry about eh?
LOL
YOu an Elvis fan?
Seem to remember there was a ban on filming him from the waist dawn.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 01:19 PM

I would expand upon Pip Radish's point, by saying that Ian Fyvie's inability to describe the playing style that he doesn't like leaves one thinking that he doesn't understand the process very well.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Will Fly
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 05:50 PM

Never fear, Tim, I always shoot the YouTube videos from the waist up - you'll never know whether I'm actually wearing the tights and miniskirt or not. Or whether I've got the lace-up thigh boots on.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 04:06 PM

"Al - you've made me see the light - from now on, it's fishnet tights and a miniskirt for me. Do you think I should keep the beard, though? Wouldn't want the blood to stop coursing through your veins... "
Ok so I will take your you tube orf me favourites list.
I just cant take the risk.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Will Fly
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 03:15 AM

Al - you've made me see the light - from now on, it's fishnet tights and a miniskirt for me. Do you think I should keep the beard, though? Wouldn't want the blood to stop coursing through your veins...

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 02:54 AM

The wording may be a bit loaded but the point remains - however polite and inoffensive some think we should all be.

My point wasn't not so much about being polite & inoffensive for its own sake, as about the best way to get a useful discussion going. "Is rubbish playing crap?" isn't a question at all - at least, it's not a question for anyone who might disagree with you. Characterising the style of fingerpicking you want to talk about in these judgmental terms ("prissy", "nice but boring", "pretty but twee") tells us there's something you don't like, but it doesn't tell us much about what that is. There's been a huge amount of confusion on the thread about what 'prissy fingerpicking' actually is - I'm still not entirely sure. Plus it risks starting a fight with anyone who thinks 'prissy' fingerpicking is perfectly OK and doesn't like hearing it slated.

It's all about what you're trying to do. If you're trying to get people to share their opinions without getting their backs up, then "polite and inoffensive" might be the way to go. If you're trying to get people riled, don't change a thing.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 09:36 PM

Prissy Fingerpicking a turnoff.......?

no godamnit! when she's wearing fishnet stockings and a mini skirt, that woman sets the red blood coursing through the intemperate regions as well as any woman.

In fact fact in Ohio, Prissy Figerpicking is a perverted sexual practice that is specifically named in several statutes. It was rumoured there was someone they lynched for doing it - but I think they were gonna lynch him anyway.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 08:57 PM

Thanks Ian...Best Wishes...bob

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 08:39 PM

Most contributors seem to have an idea of what i meant by prissy, re fingerpicking.
To correct a few misconceptions....   

*prissy refers to a type/style of fingerpicking.

*I am NOT saying finger picking in itself is prissy.

*I was lucky enough to hear Will Fly play live - Will's picking is a good example of playing that is dynamic ie. not prissy. Many blues players are pretty dynamic - but many copyists are not. They seem to have turned blues into something quite sterile - something which happens often when the twee middle classes get hold of working class art?

*Guess what - those who seem to think I'm knocking fingerpicking coz I can't do it - I do several fingerpicking styles. How many of the nice-but-boring players do just the one pick: 'Prissy!'

Like Will and some other contributors I make the picking part of the song, not the looptape upon which many plonk the lyrics.

Lastly, the point of this thread was to ask if this bland pretty-but-twee stuff if putting off youngsters who turn up at folk nights who might like more energetic guitar styles. The wording may be a bit loaded but the point remains - however polite and inoffensive some think we should all be.

Ian Fyvie

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 08:34 PM

The ANTI-PRISS! Ry Cooder, with Flaco & other amazing guys... "Bop Til You Drop" is one of my all time faves...
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=l_kbGttueAY
SHO ta get ya FONKIFIED!

bob

p.s. "Down in Hollywood" Do yas think that could be interpreted in a multiplicity of ways? Like, "her sister wouldn't do me, but Holly Would"... And, DOWN, uh, no, can't go there. This is Mudcat...BR :0)

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 08:12 PM

That's definitely Flaco, who first came to my attention when he toured with an especially excellent Ry Cooder Band.

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: bankley
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 07:36 PM

yeah, Bob, I liked what he did with Buck Owens.... me being a big 'early' Buck fan...
and Billy Bob Thorton sured kicked his mean ass in Slingblade, and got an Oscar doing it...

so, good for the West Va. boys...

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 03:52 PM

M. Ted: I think that's Flaco Jimenez on the squeezebox...All the boys playing just the right notes...Gotta Love it...bob

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: M.Ted
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 03:46 PM

Well, Bob, that's about all anyone could ever want. I was happy when the button accordion came in. The fiddle took it up a notch, and that guitar solo made me think I'd died and gone to heaven. Only one thing-- I wish't I was in the band--

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 03:32 PM

More Dwight...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jkx68VTJ33o&feature=related
BR

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: M.Ted
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 03:01 PM

I never figured that Dwight Yoakum was ever pigeon-holed--the guy used to play in hardcore punk clubs, for God's sake! He's had a 30 odd hits on the country charts, where the twang helps--I don't figure that he'd be top 40 material, even without it--

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 10:37 AM

For all you 'Catters who haven't heard of Will Ray...
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=187872438
Shenandoah's for you Banks...

bob

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 10:13 AM

Banks: Guys like Dwight, or let's use Dwight himself, should have been bigger stars. The guys got a great delivery, but that country twang keeps him pigeonholed. And, he has access to the best writers. Ya gotta wonder. Will the fingerpicker ever sleep with the Synth player? Too dangerous financially to REALLY get creative...Gotta feed the masses....
bob

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: bankley
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 08:16 AM

I figured that would get you Bob..... and Yoakum.... ain't he related to L'il Abner ?

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 07:10 PM

Folk? It's all just music to yer boi over here...
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=222588098
bob

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: bankley
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 06:53 PM

nah... he's using a flat pick and it ain't folk... pretty box tho..

ps... just kidding about the man down the street

and the only thing Django could write was his name

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 06:47 PM

And Tim: NO Bodrhan! THAT you are familiar with....

DOUMBEK!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JxtLU34X3s
bob

Subject: RE: Is Prissy Fingerpicking a Turnoff?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 06:30 PM

Just for fun...
http://www.youtube.com/user/stevevaihimself?blend=1
Am I on topic?
bob