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Translate Req: Luibin O Luth

Alice 24 Jun 99 - 09:48 PM
Alice 25 Jun 99 - 11:30 AM
Annraoi 25 Jun 99 - 05:27 PM
Alice 25 Jun 99 - 05:51 PM
Alice 26 Jun 99 - 12:13 AM
Big Mick 26 Jun 99 - 12:17 AM
Alice 26 Jun 99 - 12:19 AM
Alice 26 Jun 99 - 12:23 AM
Big Mick 26 Jun 99 - 12:25 AM
Alice 26 Jun 99 - 12:50 AM
Big Mick 26 Jun 99 - 01:02 AM
Alice 26 Jun 99 - 11:58 AM
Alice 26 Jun 99 - 12:00 PM
Alice 26 Jun 99 - 12:16 PM
Alice 26 Jun 99 - 12:36 PM
Alice 29 Jun 99 - 02:55 PM
Alice 01 Jul 99 - 07:46 PM
John T 04 Jul 99 - 11:44 AM
Alice 04 Jul 99 - 11:56 AM
johnt 04 Jul 99 - 08:41 PM
Alice 04 Jul 99 - 08:48 PM
Philippa 05 Jul 99 - 07:57 AM
Alice 05 Jul 99 - 11:46 AM
Áine 09 Sep 99 - 09:47 AM
Alice 09 Sep 99 - 10:07 AM
Áine 10 Sep 99 - 10:52 AM
Alice 10 Sep 99 - 04:16 PM
GUEST,keberoxu 01 Jun 16 - 03:16 PM
GUEST,keberoxu 01 Jun 16 - 03:34 PM
keberoxu 06 Jul 16 - 07:05 PM
GUEST,leeneia 07 Jul 16 - 10:19 AM
GUEST,Philippa 07 Jul 16 - 12:07 PM
GUEST 09 Oct 16 - 08:38 AM
bubblyrat 10 Oct 16 - 04:23 AM
AmyLove 11 Dec 16 - 09:52 PM
AmyLove 11 Dec 16 - 10:04 PM
AmyLove 11 Dec 16 - 10:59 PM
AmyLove 11 Dec 16 - 11:38 PM
AmyLove 12 Dec 16 - 12:32 AM
Thompson 12 Dec 16 - 12:22 PM
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Subject: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Alice
Date: 24 Jun 99 - 09:48 PM

"Luibin O Luth" is a beautiful song. Unfortunately, I can't understand the Irish lyrics. Can anyone tell me the meaning of the words in English? I have it only on a recording, so I don't have the words to post here.
Thanks.

alice


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Alice
Date: 25 Jun 99 - 11:30 AM


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Annraoi
Date: 25 Jun 99 - 05:27 PM

Alice, You've got me there. I have never heard of, never mind heard this song. Where did you come across it? Annraoi


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Alice
Date: 25 Jun 99 - 05:51 PM

Annraoi, I have this CD. Irish Traditional Folk Songs Luibin O Luth is #25. Maybe you can get the recording and listen to it. I have used numerous search engines and not found the lyrics on the net. I have Real Audio producer, but just downloaded it today. If I can figure out how to record a bit of a clip, I will post it. (Don't hold your breath, though.) It has a beautiful tune to it that I don't recognize as being like any other I have heard.

Alice


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Alice
Date: 26 Jun 99 - 12:13 AM

I'm stumped even by the title, Annraoi. By Irish/English dictionary says lúibín is a buttonhole or a bracket, and I can't find Luth at all. The closest I could find in the dictionary was lus, related to wildflowers.


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Big Mick
Date: 26 Jun 99 - 12:17 AM

Humm, can't believe I haven't heard this one. I will have to get the CD. I have a pretty extensive collection but this is a new one to me as well. Alice, on the CD does the word Luibin have a fada on the first ú and the second í? Or is it just Luibin?

All the best,

Mícheál Mór


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Alice
Date: 26 Jun 99 - 12:19 AM

No, it doesn't, Mick, but then, it is printed in the USA.


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Alice
Date: 26 Jun 99 - 12:23 AM

Well, Mick, the CD is a classic and I can't believe it isn't already in your collection... mystery song or no, 'cause it is by my hero, Mary O'Hara.


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Big Mick
Date: 26 Jun 99 - 12:25 AM

Do fadas appear in other song titles, Alice?

And aren't we the exciting ones, by the way. Sitting home on Friday night trying to figure out Gaelige. Have you considered submitting this to Gaelige B?

All the best,

Mick


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Alice
Date: 26 Jun 99 - 12:50 AM

The titles on the CD are all written like the ones on the link I provided. Lúibín is what I found in my dictionary, but no luibin. I unsubscribed to the list long ago.. too much email and not enough time. Do you want to try a query from the list on this song title? ;-)

Well, the only thing better than chatting with you here, Mick, would be singing together in the *real* world.

alice


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Big Mick
Date: 26 Jun 99 - 01:02 AM

Alice,

One day, I am confident we will do that, my good friend. It is my intention to make the next Montana Mudcat gathering. If I do, we will sing, and that will be grand.

I will be happy to do a query on the song, and see what it turns up.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Alice
Date: 26 Jun 99 - 11:58 AM

Annraoi and Mick, I decided to do a search of the internet using lúibín instead of luibin, and Dogpile returned many, many sites, including the lyrics to another song in which the word lúibín is found. It does not fit the tune of the one I am looking for, but I thought you may find it interesting.
Úna bhán - Fair Una - (Blond Agnes)

Still looking for Lúibín O Luth.


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Alice
Date: 26 Jun 99 - 12:00 PM

This is a great line ;-)
" I would rather have Una than two sheep."


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Alice
Date: 26 Jun 99 - 12:16 PM

Now I know why I got so many returns when I searched on lúibín: click here computer terms in Irish - "lúibín" means "link".


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Alice
Date: 26 Jun 99 - 12:36 PM

Well, searching on lúth instead of luth has been very productive (though not the song I want, yet) including this page: Songs - Who Fears To Speak of '98?click here


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Alice
Date: 29 Jun 99 - 02:55 PM

Philippa, do you by any chance know this song? thanks -a.


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Alice
Date: 01 Jul 99 - 07:46 PM


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: John T
Date: 04 Jul 99 - 11:44 AM

Alice The dust jacket on the LP "Mary O'Hara's Ireland" has the following note: "Luibin...is a lighthearted round sung at the fireside" George Scott-Moncrief. The jacket does not have either the Irish or English words.

The LP was put out in Ireland by Emerald Records Ltd. Roughfort, Templepatrick, Belfast.

In the US the LP was put out by The Everest Record Group, 2020 Ave of the Stars, Century City, Ca. 90067 Tradition record 2115. Regards John T.


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jul 99 - 11:56 AM

Thanks, John, I have the more recently released CD of that recording, and it does not include the notes of the LP. Mary O'Hara's recording is the only source I have heard. It's beautiful, isn't it?


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: johnt
Date: 04 Jul 99 - 08:41 PM

It is. As you and I have discussed before, she is wonderful. I am of to Ireland Monday july 5 and will keep an eye out for anything interesting. When I get back I will try to tap the local libraries for any leftover Mary O'Hara records. Amazing stuff that you can find in strange place. This LP jacket was in a local Salvation Army store with early Clannad records etc. John


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jul 99 - 08:48 PM

John, you really lucked out there! What a great find, and second hand prices, too.


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Philippa
Date: 05 Jul 99 - 07:57 AM

No Alice, I don't know this song, not by the title anyway. And JohnT beat me to telling you that "lúibín" is a generic name for light songs. Sometime Mudcatter Antaine has sung at lúibíní competitions at the annual "Oireachtas" Irish language festival, as well as singing in the sean-nós competitions. Maybe he could help. I'll look out for the relevant Mary O'Hara album


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Alice
Date: 05 Jul 99 - 11:46 AM

Thanks, Philippa. It has been interesting finding the different definitions for lúibín, the internet term "link", especially. Now if we all didn't have to make a living and could just spend our time learning languages and songs... oh, well, better get back to work. I'll be working in Denver for a week this month, so I may not have access to the Mudcat.


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Subject: Lyr Add: Lúibín Ó Lúth
From: Áine
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 09:47 AM

Dear Alice,

This is a forwarded message from Philippa, who's taking a break from her computer for a couple of days. It's a message she received from Martin Ryan providing the words to this song. Ain't technology wonderful?

"I didn't really expect to find this among my collection - I have only a few songbooks in Irish. In fact it turned up in a very nice set of small cards with words and music of Irish songs, published by Colm O Lochlainn (of Irish Street Ballads etc. fame). Nicholas Carolan tells me the musical notation was hand done on to plates by Seamas Ennis, the piper! Anyway, the set is in old script. I've modernised that but left the spelling as it was. - Lúibín Ó Lúth

Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir
Nach ioma sin lúibín i gcúilín mo ghrá-sa
Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir

'S maith d'aithneó'inn mo stóirín ar boithrín na ceárdchan
Tá mo ghrá fearúil mar siúlann sé Scrábach
Fear fada fuar follamh an gioll 'tá 'ndán duit

Is ioma fear fada bhíonns lag in a lámha
Tá teach ag mo bhuachaill taobh thuas de Doir 'Árta
Má tá mo grá follamh níl tada le rá leis

Grá mo chroí, laogh mo chroí, fear a bhfuil Seán air
Cé dheargas go cluais nuair a luaidhtear an táilliúr
Ghabhtainn le tinncéar 's ní ghabhtainn le táilliúr

Nach ioma sin lúibín a dubhairt mé le ráithe
Lúibín a' chiotail is lúibín a' tsáspain
Seo slainte 'n lucht ceoil, is nár laga Dia a lámha

Ar suidh'chán ar gcúl bhíos na buachaillí dána
Tá tuille le rá ach gur fánach bheith trácht air
Is dóiche gur leor sin don iarraidh seo, a cháirde.


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Alice
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 10:07 AM

Thanks, Anne. I have this additional info by email from Philippa -
Here's my very rapid attempt - without recourse to dictionaries - of a summary translation of the song. I don't quite understand it but it's not meant to make a lot of sense, I think. I don't know how close this is to the way Mary O'Hara sings it, but I'll have a listen later and see if I can make out what she says with the help of the O Lochlainn text.
1)there's many a curl in my true love's hair
2) I'd easily recognice my manly love on the road
3) Many a strong man is weak in his hands
My love has a house on the north side of Doir 'Árta If my love is strong there's nothing to say to him (meaning?)
4) Seán is my love's name (laogh=calf, a term of endearment)
I'd have a tinker, but I wouldn't accept a tailor
5)Haven't I said many a lúibín this past quarter
lúibín of the kettle, lúibín of the saucepan
here's the health of the musicians and may God not weaken their ( his?) hands
6)The bold boys are on the seats behind

There's more to say, but this is probably enough for now!


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Subject: Lyr Add: Lúibín Ó Lúth
From: Áine
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 10:52 AM

Dear Alice,

Here's my 'analysis' of the song, which you can take with a pinch of salt (i.e., this and 50 cents wouldn't get you a cup of coffee). (I've attempted to convert this to HTML so everyone's browser can see it, so if it's all messed up, I'll try it again). At first glance, this song wouldn't seem to make much sense. However, if you look at it as a 'round', as Philippa suggests, the fog begins to clear. I believe that this was a 'teasing' song, in much the same vein as 'Sí Do Mhaimeo Í' (a/k/a as 'An Chailleach Airgid') and was used by the singer/poet (Ceoltóir/File) to ingratiate himself with the local people and thereby gaining food and lodging for a few days (see verse four). The place names, names of people and professions in the song would change as he traveled the country (verse one and three). He would listen to the gossip of the village and use this information to craft his verses. So here, the file is teasing one of the girls (an Bhean Óg) in the village who is just about to become or has just become engaged to a young man. Also, we can suppose that the 'voices' in the song change too – this gives more sense to the lyrics. However, if you accept this supposition, then there appear to be verses missing – especially the Bhean Óg's responses to the teasing; although it is a common occurrence in an oral tradition for some verses to be lost when a song is eventually transcribed (notice that the file seems to apologize to the people of the house in the last verse for going on so long).

So that I myself don't go on too long either, here's how I see the song:

Curfá:
Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir
Song of joy, be lively and strong
Nach ioma sin lúibín i gcúilín mo ghrá-sa
There's many a curl in my true love's hair
Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir
Song of joy, be lively and strong

An Ceoltóir/File:
'S maith d'aithneó'inn mo stóirín ar boithrín na ceárdchan
I'd easily recognise my love on the smithy's road
Tá mo ghrá fearúil mar siúlann sé 'scrábach [go scrábach]
My love is manly as it travels untidily
Fear fada fuar follamh an gioll [geall] 'tá 'ndán duit
It's a poor barren match in store for you with a tedious man

An Bhean Óg:
Is ioma fear fada bhíonns lag in a lámha
There's many a tedious man who's weak in his arms
Tá teach ag mo bhuachaill taobh thuas de Doir 'Árta
My love has a house on the north side of Doir 'Árta
Má tá mo grá follamh níl tada le rá leis
If my love is poor, there's no need to cast it up to him

An Ceoltóir/File:
Grá mo chroí, laogh mo chroí, fear a bhfuil Seán air
My dear, my darling, there's a man called Seán
Cé dheargas go cluais nuair a luaidhtear an táilliúr
Who'll blush to the ears when the tailor is mentioned
Ghabhtainn le tinncéar 's ní ghabhtainn le táilliúr
I'd marry the tinker and not marry the tailor

An Ceoltóir/File:
Nach ioma sin lúibín a dubhairt [dúirt] mé le ráithe
Isn't many a ditty I've sung for a season
Lúibín a' chiotail is lúibín a' tsáspain
A kettle ditty and a saucepan ditty [for my food and drink]
Seo slainte 'n lucht ceoil, is nár laga Dia a lámha
Here's to the health of singers/musicians and may God bless them

An Ceoltóir/File:
Ar suidh'chán [suíochán] ar gcúl bhíos na buachaillí dána
The bold boys are on the seats in the back
Tá tuille [tuilleadh] le rá ach gur fánach bheith trácht air
There's more to be said but that would be wandering
Is dóiche [dócha] gur leor sin don iarraidh seo, a chairde
That's probably enough for this time, my friends


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Alice
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 04:16 PM

Thank you, Anne,
This helps me in how I will create something in English for met to sing to this tune.. it makes it even more fun, because it can be playful and changing with each situation, making up the words to fit the different people at our session or the events surrounding our gathering. Thanks again. -alice flynn


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 03:16 PM

If you have a recording of this song, you have more than I have....

I can report a recording earlier than Mary O'Hara's, although all I have is documentation of it. This is from Reg Hall's discography lists in his encyclopedic book, "A Few Good Tunes" (the title may be mixed up).

Lúibín ó Lú
recorded March 1939, London, for HMV (His Master's Voice) on a 78 RPM vinyl single
voice: Máire Ní Scolaí
piano: Duncan Morrisson


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 03:34 PM

Quote from collector Edward Bunting in the 1800's:

"a peculiar species of chaunt, having a very well-marked time, and a frequently recurring chorus or catch-word. It is sung at the merry-makings and assemblages of young women when they meet at spinning or quiltings, and is accompanied by extraneous verses, of which each singer furnished a line. The intervention of the chorus after each line gives time for the preparation of the succeeding one by the next singer, and thus the Luibin goes round until the chain of song is completed.
"Hence its name, signifying literally 'the link tune' . "

page 98, The Ancient Music of Ireland
Dublin: Hodges and Smith, 1840
re-issued by Dover Publications


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 07:05 PM

Message 112774 on this thread, post dated 9 September 1999, gives the lyrics through Martin Ryan/Philippa/Áine. It can be confirmed that these lyrics duplicate exactly what is published in:

An Claisceadal copyright 1930
editor: Colm Ó Lochlainn

This collection, which gives the melody line and the Gaelic lyrics, can be accessed for free, online, at www.itma.ie in their archives; you can download a PDF file.

When you see the tune written out, it becomes clear that

"Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí Lúth a's bí Láidir"

is repeated twice in every iteration/verse.
One single line of text is sandwiched between the two iterations of the chorus/title.

Thus, while Áine's message format appears to show five verses of three different lines each, this is misleading in appearance.

There are actually sixteen separate lines of verse; each is sung, one at a time, between the two iterations of the chorus/title.


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Jul 16 - 10:19 AM

Hear it on YouTube. Nice tune, but short.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz2PzYsgHZc


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Subject: RE: Luibin O Luth
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 07 Jul 16 - 12:07 PM

Mary O'Hara singing but I get a message that the video is unavailable


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Oct 16 - 08:38 AM

So glad to have found this thread. Thanks for all the info!!


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: bubblyrat
Date: 10 Oct 16 - 04:23 AM

Given some of the translations above , might I suggest , seriously,that it could explain the origins of the childrens' song "Here we go Looby-Lu, Here we go Looby-lye, here we go go Looby-Lu, All on a Saturday night " (which has always puzzled me ,frankly ).


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: AmyLove
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 09:52 PM

keberoxu mentions The Ancient Music of Ireland and An Claisceadal. You can view the former at archive.org here:

The Ancient Music of Ireland

And the specific link for the latter at ITMA:

An Claisceadal


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: AmyLove
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 10:04 PM

And I came across a radio documentary about Colm Ó Lochlainn, titled The Three Candles, on RTÉ Radio 1. It's in Irish, so I don't know about the content. Link:

The Three Candles


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: AmyLove
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 10:59 PM

I was wrong. Only the beginning of the radio documentary I mentioned above is in Irish. So far it seems that the rest is in English.


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: AmyLove
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 11:38 PM

A lot of good information about the song at Joe Heaney's site:

Lúibíní

And another item related to the song at ITMA:

Lúibín Ó Lúth : amhrán cheithre-ghuth / Carl G. Hardebec do ghléas


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: AmyLove
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 12:32 AM

Starting with the lyrics provided above, I did my best to put together the lyrics as sung by Mary O'Hara. If anyone can fill in the blanks on the two lines that weren't among the lyrics above or has any corrections to the lyrics, please share.

Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir
Nach ioma sin lúibín i gcúilín mo ghrá-sa
Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir

Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir
Fear fada fuar follamh an gioll 'tá 'ndán duit
Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir

Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir
Grá mo chroí, laogh mo chroí, fear a bhfuil Seán air
Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir

Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir
Is ioma fear fada bhíonns lag in a lámha
Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir

Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir
Tá mo ghrá fearúil mar siúlann sé Scrábach
Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir

Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir
?
Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir

Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir
?
Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir

Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir
Lúibín a' chiotail is lúibín a' tsáspain
Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir

Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir
Fear fada fuar follamh an gioll 'tá 'ndán duit
Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir

Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir
Is ioma fear fada bhíonns lag in a lámha
Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir

Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir
Tá mo ghrá fearúil mar siúlann sé Scrábach
Lúibín Ó Lúth, bí lúth 's bí láidir


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Subject: RE: Translate Req: Luibin O Luth
From: Thompson
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 12:22 PM

Somewhere in the dust at the attic at the tip of my mind something stirs - wasn't there a cartoon character in, perhaps, The Irish Press called Lúibín?


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