BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: goatfell
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 11:10 AM

where is your proof about hamas keeping weapons in schools/hospitals etc

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: goatfell
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 01:54 PM

wh is it that most of the 'people' on this thread hate the arabs and not Israel or the the taleban I mean what happened to love for your fellow man, I hate terrorism as much as the other man but I hate countries that just bomb other countries because they know that they can get away with it like Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 02:54 PM

goatee-
I think you're just being a turdbrain tosser as in you're simply avoiding the thread topic. The Taleban are for the most part, I believe, composed of Pashtuns, not Arabs. You are the one with some trouble making distinctions and I suggest that since you have a mudcat identity you start your own thread on your own topic. I promis you I'll pay ya a visit!

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Stringsinger
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 04:22 PM

"From your post Frank, I take it that you have never served in any of the armed forces and most certainly have never had experience of hostile situations where large numbers of people are trying their level best to kill you. If you had had such experience then you would know that there is no such thing as a "rigid military view" on anything."

Nonsense, Teribus. Why you are in that position in the first place has a lot to do with your choice in the matter.

" History has shown that anyone adopting such a view in military situations loses, the best example of that being Napoleon."

No, Ghandi forced the Brits out of India through non-violence. Shooting and bombing "enemies" is not written in historical stone.

"Rigid military view" eh? Another old adage goes something like this Frank, "No plan survives first contact with the enemy" so in the military you are deliberately taught to think on your feet and adapt to the situation that presents itself, the popular perception by the anti-war crowd of the military being mindless "Yes Sir, No Sir, Three bags full Sir" types is a myth."

And yet the thinking as to solutions to conflict are robotic and not considered examination of the needs of people. The way the military "adapts" is predictable by
defining an "enemy" and ending their life. It's a way too easy solution to the problem of
resolving conflict and runs counter to the principles of diplomacy and understanding of the human condition.

"Your facts reflect your opinions but do not necessarily qualify as truth. Most of what you say I interpret as distortions based on your mindset." - Stringsinger/Frank

"Facts are facts Frank, plain and simple, they are neither yours nor mine."

No, facts are often "factoids" subject to interpretation. They are both yours and mine
as we perceive them and not some objective absolute but subject to scientific scrutiny which in time will change them.


" How those facts are perceived is the problem area where the marked differences appear, the facts however remain neutral."

No they do not. They are interpreted through individual ideology and bias. Scientific facts are the most reliable but they are not a part of military ideology or political assessments.


" Anyone who has done any sort of specialist job, when it comes to interpretation of facts relating to their field of expertise and experience will have greater perception of what is going on than someone who does not share their training and experience. "

Not so fast. There are specialists in the field of fact finding that have been determined to be off-base or downright wrong. Take the case of WMD's for example. A specialist is often not as useful of a generalist who brings a wider perspective to a problem.



"My past experience, knowledge and understanding are useful when reading reports of conflicts and military operations in various places, but Frank that is the only time my supposedly "rigid military view and mindset" is applied, the rest of the time for almost all other situations in life I relly on the application of logic and common-sense."

One person's logic and common-sense may be another's fantasy. What you have said in your statements may be your reality but it's not mine. My reality envisions a world that doesn't live by posing "enemies" and reverting to claw and fang to solve problems.

Thank you for the background on the story of 1514. It's an interesting history. The Scots have been known for centuries for their participation in bloody battles. It cements the idea of war as an institution to solve conflicts by romanticizing it as some noble deed.
There is always some rationale for hating an enemy and wreaking vengeance on them.
Still, it's an interesting history and worth knowing about.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 06:32 PM

Stringsinger/Frank that has got to be the most disjointed incoherent post that I have ever read.

Put in very simple terms terms Frank.

1. Have you ever served in the armed forces of the county in which you live, or any other country - answer is either Yes or No.

2. Have you ever been in a position where people that youpersonally do not know are trying to kill you? - Again simple Yes or No would suffice.

3. If the answers to questions 1 & 2 above are No and No Frank. Don't you fuckin' well dare on any grounds whatsoever pass judgement on those who actually fight and put their lives on the line so that you can prattle on on this forum about freedoms and values that those who do serve guarantee you.

By the bye on Ghandi - care to tell us who killed him and why?? He did not "force" the British out of India, he certainly had his role in making the inevitable happen, but don't ever over emphasise his importance in decisions that in the aftermath and consequence of the Second World War were inevitable. Judged by his own standards he failed and failed miserably, Ghandi's mission was for a united India, not a set up with Pakistan/India/East Pakistan, in that particular conflict millions died - that would not have happened under British Rule and a British plan for independence.

Sorry Frank the facts relating to any case or circumstance remain purely and simply "The facts" - They are not factoids, Frank there is no such fucking thing as factiods except within your imagination which basically mean they count for bugger all.

As to pontificating on the "military mindset" Frank, as you, yourself have never served in the military, how many other things do you voice your considered opinion on about things of which you personally have absolutely no experience?? Now logic and common-sense lends me to believe that someone who rabbits on about something they personally have no actual experience of has got to be a complete and utter wanker and that Frank just about sums you up.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 07:07 PM

Please, the both of yez - Gandhi that drives me almost as crazy as nukyooler

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 07:39 PM

My apologies Robo, down right laziness on my part, I just lifted it straight from Stringsingers post.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 12:59 PM

Teribus, when you lose an argument do you always resort to name-calling?

>1. Have you ever served in the armed forces of the county in which you live, or any other country - answer is either Yes or No.

I was a conscientious objector.

>2. Have you ever been in a position where people that youpersonally do not know are trying to kill you? - Again simple Yes or No would suffice.

I try to avoid those situations at all costs.

>3. If the answers to questions 1 & 2 above are No and No Frank. Don't you fuckin' well dare on any grounds whatsoever pass judgement on those who actually fight and put their lives on the line so that you can prattle on on this forum about freedoms and values that those who do serve guarantee you.

I don't pass judgement on you personally. I think your ideas are deluded. And you don't
serve me with your warlike attitude.

>By the bye on Ghandi - care to tell us who killed him and why??

He was killed by a religious fanatic named Godse.

> He did not "force" the British out of India, he certainly had his role in making the inevitable happen, but don't ever over emphasise his importance in decisions that in the aftermath and consequence of the Second World War were inevitable.

Don't underestimate his considerable influence and power in India and if it wasn't for him
Britain would still be there.

>Judged by his own standards he failed and failed miserably, Ghandi's mission was for a united India, not a set up with Pakistan/India/East Pakistan, in that particular conflict millions died - that would not have happened under British Rule and a British plan for independence.

While he was active, before his assassination he was extremely sucessful even by his own standards. Nehru acknowledged this even when he didn't agree with Ghandi. The Brits plan for independence was to maintain their colonial influence as they have done historically for decades.

>Sorry Frank the facts relating to any case or circumstance remain purely and simply "The facts" - They are not factoids, Frank there is no such fucking thing as factiods except within your imagination which basically mean they count for bugger all.

Sorry Teribus but your interpretation of the facts are questionable at best. There are factoids that are administered by propagandists.

>As to pontificating on the "military mindset" Frank, as you, yourself have never served in the military, how many other things do you voice your considered opinion on about things of which you personally have absolutely no experience??

There is no reasonable way for you to determine what experience I may or may not have had since you don't know me at all. You, like so many others with a rigid mindset, make assumption based on your own prejudices.

> Now logic and common-sense lends me to believe that someone who rabbits on about something they personally have no actual experience of has got to be a complete and utter wanker and that Frank just about sums you up.

Once again, when you can't win an argument or prevail in a discussion, you apparently think there is some merit in your name-calling that will convince someone that you are correct in your misapprehensions. The discussion is now closed since the only defense you have for your arguments is to denigrate reasonable rebuttals. As of this moment,
this is not a legitimate discussion but a tirade on your part.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: goatfell
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 05:40 PM

how am I avioding the issue I have mentined that the blowing up schools by the Taleban is wrong and Just because I don't back Israel or the Taleban of which i didn't say was arabs when I wrote the word arabs I was talking about Gaza I'm in the wrong but there are quite a lot of people out there in the real world that don't back Israel or the Taleban.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: goatfell
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 05:45 PM

oh another thing I don't text

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: goatfell
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 05:59 PM

robomatic you've have kept to the tread either ghandi what has he got to do with blowing up schools by the Taleban And I'm the aresehole

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 02:33 PM

Goatfell:

Your attempts to describe yourself notwithstanding, I think you need to type a bit slower or more sober, it's hard to devine your point sometimes. There's plenty of threads discussing Israel and the Palestinians. What's going on in Afghanistan is the subject of this thread and you have not been alone in diverting attention from the fact.

See you on some other thread, then, all the best.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: goatfell
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 12:15 PM

I'm not good at spelling or writing and I have spoke aobout the Taliban and what I think is wrong in their country.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 07:22 PM

Then I give you kudos for your brave efforts. In case you wish to APPEAr to be good at spelling or writing, there is a computer utility called 'spellcheck' that will make you appear adequately schooled if not erudite.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 05:37 PM

Just to quantify things to get the scale of these activities - over 170 schools have been blown up. The purpose behind it being twofold:

- To maintain the place of women in their society as mere chattels, property, beasts of burden.
- To ensure that the people remain in a state of ignorance, that way of course they are easier to control and manipulate.

The depressing thing is that so many on this forum seem quite content to condemn all those people to their fate.

Oh and before the usual suspects and fellow travellers start wittering on about seperate cultures and the sanctity of religious belief, remember this. The Taleban moved into the Swat valley uninvited, they were and are interlopers. The Taleban ruthlessly killed any opposition and took over the area at gunpoint, then forced their particular religious views and harsh interpretation of Sharia Law on a population who had absolutely no choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Stringsinger
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 04:22 PM

The Taleban are ruthless just as the Israelis are in Gaza and Timothy McVeigh, the great Christian savior was in the US.

They all blow up schools. McVeigh would've if he could.

The maintenance of women in society is equally attributable to many practitioners of Christianity, Hindusim, and other religions, not just Islam.

I see that those who attempt to report on what the Taleban did or didn't do, were not there to actually witness it firsthand but rely on doctored news articles about it promulgating their political ideologies.

This is not to excuse the Taleban but to question the various "sources" that maintain that
they know everything.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: bobad
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 04:29 PM

Stringsinger see the post of 28 Jan 09 - 10:57 AM, it is from someone who was there.

This thread is about the Taliban, there is another one for slagging the Jews.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: goatfell
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 07:51 AM

thnak you robomatic

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 08:16 AM

Stringsinger check out BBC News web-site South East Asia section. They are running a series of articles written/reported by a school girl living in Swat. Are you saying that the article is fake, or that the girl doesn't live there?

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: GUEST,saleem
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 08:58 AM

i am a muslim, maybe youd call me a fundamentalist cos i have a real beard & wear islamic attire and pray 5 times daily etc.

what i wish to remind you folks is that there are many factions in afghanistan- i have been there twice in 2003 & 2005.
although the taliban are strict about following islam, ther are many who want to discredit them, and even kill, bomb & try to make it appear as if its the taliban.
no1 is CIA- they are LOSING-the death toll is WAAAAAY higher than what they say.
they were funding the taliban in the 80's & maybe upto early 90's.
but since the negotiations for the pipeline of oil & natural gas from the caspian went sour (taliban wants to give a S. American country the contract)and the taliban is destroyed the poppy/opium fields(CIA is running drugs), they have gone from being "freedom fighters" to "terrorists"
and pleeease dont say anything about osama & 911 cos thats the job of Mossad. not one of the "hijackers/terrorists" were afghan.

you people are intelligent so i dont know why you swallow everything you see/hear/read.
there is hardly any journalistic integrity nowadays- they all spew out the same lies, as theyve been ordered to do- or else you lose your job.
due to its rough, mountainous terrain & poor infrastructure, its very hard to get regular & reliable news out from afghanistan.
maybe you hate muslims and find it convenient to believe the picture of the taliban thats painted by western media and their puppets of muslim/afghan origin.
the media is dominated by the zionists- so the only place you might get real news is by surfing the net -and that too, you got to be careful .

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: bobad
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 09:11 AM

Thank you saleem for telling us who the real terrorists are. Now we know that the suicide bombers are really CIA operatives and Jews disguised as Muslims - clever buggers the lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 09:38 AM

Yeah, I echo bobad's thanks, saleem...

One component of "The Surge" that was successful was the negotiations
with Suni leaders... No, this does not get much press because it's not as rah-rah-go-teamish as the boots on the ground...

History has shown that very conflict ended with folks talking with one another... Afganistan is no different... The US should, and under Obama probably will, begin talks with the Taleban...

One thing is for sure, there will be no military solution or victory for the US in Afganistan... Bush picked two unwinable wars...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Stringsinger
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 01:40 PM

Schools are being blown up by Taleban and Israelis. Clinton blew up a madrasa in Afghanistan. This alarmist post is a red-herring. Of course innocents will be targeted.
It's part of the war machine. The difference between police work and wars is that in police work, the guilty are apprehended. In war, the innocent suffer as much as the guilty.

There are no smart bombs, just lethal ones that don't discriminate.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: goatfell
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 03:02 PM

I would like to agree with saleem but I cna't put my views ob this web site because there are members and non members that just don't like me and they don't have the courage to say so.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Peace
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 03:40 PM

"This thread is about the Taliban, there is another one for slagging the Jews."

My first good laugh of the day.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 06:27 PM

Guest saleem, having read your post I can only conclude that you are a congenital liar and a complete and utter idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 06:38 PM

saleem did have a small amount of accuracy, I recall that not long before the Taliban decided to shell Buddhist shrines there was a deal in the works for the US to pay them, as the government of Afghanistan, for destroying/ prohibiting the culture of poppies.

I don't think anyone ever termed them "freedom fighters" and for the rest of his / her post, saleem was as accurate as, say, The O'Reilly Factor.

goatfell, you're making an error common to a lot of folks in these forums. It isn't about you. It's about what you say. So say something relevant already. You can start a thread about yourself, a lot of folks do that, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Nickhere
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 07:34 PM

Teribus, I for one will add my voice to those who are indignant / outraged at what the Taliban have done.

Whatever their motives, the few Pakistani people I've read / heard interviewed were really angry about it, angry their kids had been denied an education, fearful they'd be attacked by the Taliban if they spoke out. What an awful situation to be in.

Education seems to have bypassed the Taliban themselves, maybe they are like some kind of Afghani Rednecks who are fearful of books and learning. I think it is yet another demonstration of how much pervasive violence in daily life helps to set back the process of 'civilization' (I use the word in a broad sense, not to imply necessarily the western model)

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: pdq
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 07:47 PM

"...some kind of Afghani Rednecks who are fearful of books and learning." ~ Nickhere

Racist stereotyping. Total crap.

Drop dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Nickhere
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 08:08 PM

Pdq - Drop dead? You sound like a very angry man. Sorry, but I won't be obliging you on that one. Racial stereotyping? How, exactly? Are the Taliban a race? When we - you and I both - criticized the brutality of the IDF did we accept it when people not a million miles away accused of us racial stereotyping (ie. anti-semitism, in that case)? Not a bit of it. Though the IDF is Jewish in composition, only a racist fool would argue the actions of the IDF is representative of what all Jews think.

But that aside, I have a bone to pick with you, Teribus - though I agree with you that the Taliban have done a bad thing in blowing up the schools, there's a bit of dishonesty here as well. You asked at the start of the thread 'where are the cries of indignation now?' - we both know that this was a reference to those who criticized Israel for bombing schools on other threads.

Yet when people have pointed out here that the schools bombed by Israel had people inside - unlike those bombed by the Taliban - they were quickly told it wasn't relevant and there was another thread for criticizing Israel. But actually it was completely relevant, as your very first post makes clear.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 03:06 AM

A couple of questions for you Nickhere.

If I had not started this thread who else would have??

If beardedbruce had not started the thread on Darfur who else would have??

I think the answer to both would have been nobody, because the bias present on this forum is such that if it can't be blamed on GWB, the USA, the UK or the Israelis the situation no matter how dire gets pointedly ignored.

Further as the person who started this thread I have never restricted or attempted to restrict by comment what has been posted.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: goatfell
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 09:07 AM

cat fighting here too stake your nonsense somewhere else

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Nickhere
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 01:23 PM

You're missing the point - the thread was posed by way of comparison, as in "what about the Taleban?" Since you are starting out by comparing two situations, then comparisons are legitimate. But if you read back along, you'll see people who attempted to draw comparisons were told they were irrelevant.

e.g

"Oh and Kevin this does belong in this thread, it is exactly what I thought would happen considering the subject matter - can't be seen to condemn fanatical Islamic "freedom fighters" so distract and deflect the arguement so we can all blame Jews, the big bad west and GWB - didn't take long did it??"

(Your words)

and Bobad -

"This thread is about the Taliban, there is another one for slagging the Jews"

Get the drift?

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Stringsinger
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 02:55 PM

Saleem's post is correct in saying that there is no monolithic Islam. There are many tribal factions. He is also correct in saying that the main stream news media is unreliable on this issue. He, however, equates criticism of certain Muslim tribal activities with hatred. This is not true.

Honor killings, subjugation of women, brutal slayings, although these are not necessarily
the province of all Islam, this certainly deserves criticism. As well as school bombing.

Saleem's point is well-taken in that the so-called Western societies really don't understand the fanaticism of the Taleban but apply their value system to it by condemning it without seeing what it represents. There are factions in other countries that are just as ruthless and fanatical.

The answer is not a blanket diatribe or condemnation but an appeal to education and reason to prevail in place of blind "faith".

Once again, the conversation has denigrated into name-calling and as a result, facts on the subject have become obliterated.

If we are to have peace in this world, whether we agree with him or not, we have to acknowledge what Saleem has to say without the usual knee-jerk reaction that is so customary in the so-called "civilized" world.

I deplore the violence and brutality in Afghanistan but before we get to self-righteous about it I would suggest that we also remember what happened in Hiroshima and Nagaski and who was responsible for that. A few schools were bombed there too.

Stringsinger

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 03:38 PM

Stringsinger, this is an odious comparison from you, "...(B)ut before we get to(sic) self-righteous about it I would suggest that we also remember what happened in Hiroshima and Nagaski and who was responsible for that. A few schools were bombed there too."

The allies were trying to end a war in which invasion of the Japanese Islands would have cost, by estimate, over 100,000 American lives...perhaps even a cousin and an uncle of mine who were US Marines in the Pacific...and, perhaps other relatives who might have been transferred from Europe. You, too, might have had close relatives killed or wounded in that invasion. I am sorry for the loss of civilian Japanese, but their government started the war.

The Taliban, on the other hand, are bullys (and that's the very mildest word I can use) who destroy schools and cultural monuments, to keep girls and women in their 'place', and want to impose their retrograde form of Islam on Afghanistan at whatever the cost to the populace.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Nickhere
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 09:22 PM

But you're correct on another point Teribus - it isn't right that it's left to yourself or BBRuce to start threads on Darfur etc.,

I suppose that most Catters are way more familiar with the wars in Iraq, Afgahanistan and Palestine - these have all been covered extensively in the media and the war in Palestine has been going on so many years that most people have had time to read up on it, inform themselves about it and so feel in a position to make some comment on it. There's a lot of material around about it from all viewpoints and then some.

On the other hand there are dozens of conflicts that flare up round the world, like the one in Georgia, that are over almost before you get any idea of what's really going on. They are also often less well-covered by the media, at least after the initial furore. The Darfur situation is a case in point - it got reasonably well-covered in the first few weeks then the media circus moved on to more 'interesting stuff' though it's not as if the Janjaweed suddenly thought better of their murderous actions.

A journalist, Joe Sacco, who covered the Bosnia war intensively, made this point about Sarajevo. Though people were still dying there, the main focus of the war shifted to Gorazde as the action was far more intense, and the chance of getting that 'scoop' drew the journalists in droves. A very similar stinging criticism of the media can be found in Danis Tanovich's "No Man's Land" - about the war in Bosnia.

On a more recent note, I think "Blood Diamond" has done an excellent job in alerting people to the moral pitfalls in buying a diamond thanks to the backdrop of corruption and slaughter in the Democratic Republic of Congo (and as I've noted elsewhere, any country with the word 'democratic' in the title probably isn't). Personally, I'd haul China over the coals for their dismal human rights record - far more executions than the USA (though a bigger population admittedly), the annexation of Tibet which has never been properly addressed. It warmed my heart to see the protests over the Olympic torch last year. Then there is the Communist Party's suppression of religion, the fact there IS only one party, and no democratic vote as we understand it, etc., etc., I think countries that call themselves civilized should either call China to account or break off relations over these issues. But the lure of the Chinese RNB (Chinese currency) is proving stronger than morals in almost all cases.

I am not a person who believes it better to protest against no regime if we're not going to protest against them all, in the interests of fairness. Though I believe in fairness, I also realise people have limited time and energy so different groups can focus their efforts in different areas. Occasionally they can combine their energies on one - as was done with South Africa - if it helps tip the scales.

I have written numerous times to the Iranian government protesting over the treatment of jailed trade union activists and the beating of women trade unionists. Though these efforts don't seem to make much difference, you'd be surprised how they do trickle into a government's consciousness - 'we;re not well viewed by the rest of the world" Now they mightn't care much about my views, but they might worry about the effect of such lobbying at home on my own own government by like minded people on relations between the two governments. In the past, these protests (I wasn't the only one protesting, I hasten to add) have effected the release of activists or shortened their sentences or lightened their treatment. Another country I'd like to see real pressure applied to is Burma.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 01:18 PM

There is continuing propaganda about how atomic weapons were supposed to end the war in Japan. In fact, the war was winding down without having had to use these weapons. Truman was adamant for political reasons. He didn't consider the lasting effect of the use of these weapons over time. Einstein, Oppenheimer and others who developed these weapons were far more circumspect. The statistics offered above about the ending of the war with Japan are speculative and can't be completely verifiably accurate.

I believe that the Taleban are renegades and religious fanatics and what they have done to women is despicable. But let's not white-wash the deeds of other nations in this discussion.

There are all kinds of bullies in the world and some of them are on this list.

Stringsinger

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 01:50 PM

String,

"There is continuing propaganda about how atomic weapons were supposed to end the war in Japan. In fact, the war was winding down without having had to use these weapons. Truman was adamant for political reasons."

There have been threads about this, and your conclusion was not determined to be totally valid.


Truman was looking at at least 500,000 US and over 1 million Japanese expected to be killed if there was an invasion of Japan. The use of the atomic bomb was thought by all to be a means to end the war with fewer casualties.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 02:06 PM

Yes the war was winding down. Germany had already been defeated, which was going to free up US GIs for the impending invasion of Japan.

Nobody could have predicted precisely how many Japanese and Americans would have been killed. But we know it was between 0 and the entire population of the Islands for the Japanese, and 0 to however many the US cared to send in.

Everything I have read, except for some on the left, has postulated way more than a million folks on both sides combined would have been killed or wounded. I think Pesident Truman made the valient decision for both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Nickhere
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 05:15 PM

I wonder if the scientists and military men who created the bomb were desperate to get a chance to test it out for real before the war ended. After all they knew it could blow up some sheds etc., in he New Mexico desert, but what would it do to a whole city full of people? And just to make sure the results weren't a fluke, might be a good idea to test it on a second city as well, as quickly as possible before the Japs got a chance to officially surrender.
You never know...

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 07:03 AM

Life under Taleban rule in the Swat Valley:

"Even the Swat Valley, one of the most beautiful green highland landscapes on earth and until recently a popular tourist destination, is now home to Taliban FM radio stations which broadcast the names of new death squad targets most evenings, and justify the latest murders of women and girls.

In Green Square in the centre of Mingora, the valley's largest city, executions are staged and bodies dumped within walking distance of police stations, to help local people understand the Taliban's take on Sharia law."

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Nickhere
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 12:35 PM

So the Taliban give advance warning to their intended victims as well. I'm sorry for the poor people who have to live in such troubled areas and in such troubled times. We should be thankful for our peace and stability. I am, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: Stringsinger
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 02:04 PM

I have read a lot of propaganda about the use of atomic weapons on Japan as well.
It had to be "rationalized".

The Taleban are sick, crazy, and a perversion of Islam. No amount of bombing or shooting is going to change that. The only way is through re-education, modeling of a better way of life and exposure to better ideas.

Stringsinger

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: gnu
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 02:45 PM

I say we nuke em until they glow.

Subject: RE: BS: Taleban Blow Up Schools
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 04:29 PM

stringy:

I have no idea why you're trying to drag WWII into this. If you are urging us to use nukes on the Taliban, I think you'll find most of us against that (I sure am). If you are trying to make some equivalence between the Taleban dynamiting all and sundry and the use of a couple of small atomic bombs on a major enemy to end the biggest war the world has ever seen, I suggest you make your own thread.