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Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?

GUEST,Gladys 20 Jan 09 - 11:02 PM
Nick 21 Jan 09 - 01:12 AM
Nick 21 Jan 09 - 01:20 AM
pavane 21 Jan 09 - 02:45 AM
Jack Campin 21 Jan 09 - 05:03 AM
GUEST 21 Jan 09 - 05:16 AM
Stewart 21 Jan 09 - 11:57 AM
Little Robyn 21 Jan 09 - 01:40 PM
Terry McDonald 21 Jan 09 - 01:57 PM
Jack Campin 21 Jan 09 - 02:56 PM
Anglogeezer 21 Jan 09 - 04:02 PM
Anglogeezer 21 Jan 09 - 04:19 PM
pavane 22 Jan 09 - 03:38 AM
Will Fly 22 Jan 09 - 04:20 AM
Jack Campin 22 Jan 09 - 05:31 AM
pavane 22 Jan 09 - 05:49 AM
GUEST,Jack Campin 22 Jan 09 - 12:22 PM
Anglogeezer 22 Jan 09 - 12:50 PM
GUEST,Jack Campin 22 Jan 09 - 01:43 PM
Jack Campin 22 Jan 09 - 04:09 PM
Artful Codger 22 Jan 09 - 08:35 PM
Leadfingers 22 Jan 09 - 08:51 PM
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Subject: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: GUEST,Gladys
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 11:02 PM

Hi there...hoping that someone can help me out!!!   

A violin selection (fiddle) by name of Hillside Echoes...

I have the sheet music in Eb (3 flats in key signature) - but I am

able to only play in the Keys of G, D or A.


Does anyone know how I might be able to get this sheet music

re written in a key that I can manage?   I would paste the Sheet

Music in this email...but I don't know how to do that!


Thanks for any help you can give me,

Gladys
slingerlandwilson@yahoo.ca


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: Nick
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 01:12 AM

If you know what all the notes are just transcribe it as follows:


Eb E F Gb G Ab A Bb B C Db D
D D# E F F# G G# A A# B C C#


Everytime there is an instance of the note on the sheet music from the first row replace it with one in the second. All time etc and length of notes stays the same.

Rewrite it outin sheet music with two sharps as the key signature.

That's about it! Just takes a little time. If you need any more help just say.


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: Nick
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 01:20 AM

Here's an ABC file in D:

X:7
T:Hillside Echoes
R:marching air
D:Joe Cormier, The Dances Down Home
Z:Paul Stewart Cranford (P.S.C.),
L:1/8
Q:244
M:C|
K:D
FE|D3 A, F,>A,DF G>FE>D|C_GF D3 A, F,>A,DA F>DA,>F,|G,D C |:g2|f3 d A>DFFE>D Ffe A3 B A2 Bc|d>AFAGD C
If you go to this site and paste the above ABC in it will convert it to a PDF of the tune


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: pavane
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 02:45 AM

A trick which might help in future:

You don't actually need to write the tune out again to transpose it
For a tune written in E (or Eb) you just play every note as if it is written ONE LINE (or one space) above where it is actually written.
(using the NEW key signature of course)

Then you will play automatically Eb as if it is G, and all the other notes will be correctly transposed as well.

(Physically, you could draw another line on the staff, through all the Middle C's, so they become E's, and tippex out the top (F) line, if that helps the illusion)


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 05:03 AM

There is a good chance that if it's written in E flat it either sounds much better or is much easier to play that way. Just stick with the original, playing it very slowly to start with.


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 05:16 AM

Sorry the abc is a bit wrong. I used a tool to transpose it and it messed it up

Nick


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: Stewart
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 11:57 AM

Playing the 'flat keys' (F, Bb, Eb) on a fiddle are technically no more difficult than playing the 'sharp keys' (G, D, A). In fact, for some tunes, I think the flat keys sound better - better resonances I think. It's just a matter of playing the scales and tunes in flat keys enough so that your fingers become accustomed to them. So you should learn to do that, and you will have much more flexibility in what you can play.

Cheers, S. in Seattle


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 01:40 PM

But the guitarists and squeezebox players won't appreciate having to play in Eb.
Just an observation from experience.
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 01:57 PM

Thanks to the capo, we guitarists can play in any key....


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 02:56 PM

There are quite a few Scottish tunes in flat keys (usually covering a two-octave range up from B flat below middle C) from the years 1780-1830. My guess on the reason for these is that they were meant to be played on the harp as well as the fiddle or piano, and the harp sounds better in flat keys: with the levers up you get a greater length of string vibrating. Some of these tunes go beyond that range, in which case you probably can't do any transposition without either falling off the bottom of the fiddle's range or driving it up beyond first position (even more of a no-no for less advanced fiddlers than weird keys). Look at Nathaniel Gow's "Mr Ronald Crawford" for an example (gorgeous tune in F minor, though it's doable on the three-flat clarsach because the D flat doesn't occur).

Anyway, with Scottish tunes (and to some extent Irish ones) the notion of the "right key" for each tune is so entrenched that if you expect to be playing with anyone else you have to stick to the key the tune was first published in.


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: Anglogeezer
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 04:02 PM

Here is the ABC to HILLSIDE ECHOES transposed to the key of G.


As NICK_ said, COPY & PASTE the ABC into this site
and convert it to dots.

This site    will convert any ABC's to a different key. Then COPY & PASTE into the site for the dots.

regards
Jake


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: Anglogeezer
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 04:19 PM

Sorry, last post ref ABC's posted in error!!!
Was trying to preview my message but kept getting error message "Your post contains a forbidden HTML tag." ??
But I couldn't see where they were!

Will try again later

Exasperated
Jake


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: pavane
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 03:38 AM

Just a technical question for Jack - did harps HAVE levers (for semitones) as early as the 1820's?


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 04:20 AM

The question of appropriate keys - particularly at sessions - can be a little thorny sometimes. One local example that springs to mind is the tune "The Marquis of Lorne". According to one tune book I have, this is normally played in G. However, at a local, regular session, it's played in D - simply because the bloke who leads us into it finds it easier to play it in D on his Northumbrian small pipes. So - even when he's not there, we play it in D! I play it at home on my tenor banjo in G because the fingering's easier. If I play it at the session, then I use a mandolin, where the fingering's easier in D. The point is that no key is absolute - it can depend on the environment and circumstance in which you play the tune.


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 05:31 AM

Yes, harps had levers back then. I'm not sure quite how the mechanism worked: it wasn't the modern clarsach with hand levers (that only dates from around 1890) and the modern pedal harp was invented by Erard around 1830. But the two-stave scores of Scottish tunes published after 1780 all suggest the harp as an instrument to play them on, and they're limited in range rather than in key.


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: pavane
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 05:49 AM

But the Welsh Triple harp was chromatic without needing levers. Maybe they used someting similar?


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 12:22 PM

No, there are harps depicted in Scottish domestic interiors of the period and they were proto-concert-harps of the sort Mozart wrote for, not triple harps.


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: Anglogeezer
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 12:50 PM

Here's HILLSIDE ECHOES without the angle brackets that caused me sooo much trouble!!
COPY and PASTE into Concertina.net for the dots.

Jake
***************************
X:1
T:Hillside Echoes
R:marching air
D:Joe Cormier, The Dances Down Home
Z:Paul Stewart Cranford (P.S.C.),
L:1/8
Q:244
M:C|
K:G
BA|G3 D B,3/2D/G/B3/2|d3 B G2D2|E/C3/2A3/2B/c3/2B/A3/2G/|F/d3/2^c/e3/2 d3/2=c/B/A3/2|
G3 D B,3/2D/G/B3/2|d/B3/2g3/2d/ B3/2G/D3/2B,/|C/E3/2A3/2G/ F/e3/2d/F3/2|G4 G2:|
|:c'2|b3 g d3/2G/B/G3/2|c3/2B/A3/2G/ B/d3/2g/b3/2|c'3/2b/a/g3/2 b/g3/2d/B3/2|c2 A2 A2 Bc|
d3 e d2 ef|g3/2d/B/g3/2 e3/2d/c/B3/2|c/E3/2A3/2G/ F/e3/2d/F3/2|G4 G2:|


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 01:43 PM

It's more readable if you leave the angle brackets in, but convert them to HTML character codes - &lt; for < (the more problematic one) and &gt; for > . If you're using a Mac, the text editor TextWrangler (formerly BBEdit Lite) has an "HTML Specials Convert..." utility to do that for you.

Then put all the ABC into a fixed-width font by putting <tt> ... </tt> around it.


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 04:09 PM

Here's that tune in E flat with the broken-rhythm signs coded in the way I suggested:

X:1
T:Hillside Echoes
R:marching air
D:Joe Cormier, The Dances Down Home
Z:Paul Stewart Cranford (P.S.C.), <http://www.cranfordpub.com>
L:1/8
Q:244
M:C|
F:http://cranfordpub.com/tunes/abcs/CormierJoe.abc
% 2009-01-22 20:54:58 UT
K:Eb
GF|E3 B, G,>B,E<G|B3   G E2 B,2 |C<A,F>G A>GF>E|D<B=A<c B>_AG<F|
   E3 B, G,>B,E<G|B<Ge>B G>EB,>G,|A,<CF>E D<cB<D|E4      E2    :|
a2|g3 e B>E``G<E|A>GF>E G<Be<g |a>g`f<e g<eB<G|A2 F2   F2 GA |
   B3 c B2   cd |e>BG<e c>BA<G |A<C`F>E D<cB<D|E4      E2    :|


Two further points.

There's no need to do the transposition in ABC since the converter utilities at folkinfo.org and concertina.net can do it for you - so can free-standing programs like BarFly.

And that version in G is probably no easier to play than the original, since the high C will need third position. The tune has such a wide range that the only other key you can do it in that stays in first position and has a simpler key signature is F. I doubt whether that would be much easier.


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: Artful Codger
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 08:35 PM

One can play high C in first position with only a slight stretch of the pinkie. It is commonly done. Also, for just the C, one would normally use second or half-second position instead of third.

Shifting to E or D allows the use of open strings for drone or unison notes, very characteristic in fiddle improvisation. Stewart is right that the flat keys have a different sound than the sharp keys, and transposing will alter the mood of the piece somewhat. Whether this is sufficient reason to give up the obvious advantages of the more common "sharp" keys is for each player to decide.

Personally, I like it when players vary the keys they play in. No matter how accomplished the player, it gets deathly dull hearing (or playing) piece after piece in the same two or three keys, and only in major or minor. So heck yeah, learn the piece in Eb--what a treat!


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Subject: RE: Fiddle sheet music in Eb - convert to?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 08:51 PM

I dont play fiddle , but DO play a lot of mandolin , and dont see ANY problem in a serious player being able to do basic stuff in ANY key . I accept that if you are doing a paying gig you dont want to be missing the odd note , but I enjoy having a quiet busk along in all sorts of keys at a couple of places I go to . In fact I REALLY like a couple of things in F and Bflat !
C# , F# , and BMaj are a bit of a struggle though !


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