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BS: Baha'is

GUEST,beardedbruce 22 Jan 09 - 11:58 AM
Ebbie 22 Jan 09 - 12:28 PM
Little Hawk 22 Jan 09 - 02:52 PM
beardedbruce 22 Jan 09 - 03:08 PM
robomatic 22 Jan 09 - 03:51 PM
open mike 23 Jan 09 - 03:41 AM
keberoxu 11 Apr 22 - 01:02 PM
gillymor 11 Apr 22 - 04:38 PM
keberoxu 15 Apr 22 - 08:16 PM
Joe Offer 15 Apr 22 - 11:39 PM
keberoxu 18 Apr 22 - 05:19 PM
keberoxu 24 Apr 22 - 05:36 PM
Donuel 24 Apr 22 - 08:17 PM
Joe Offer 24 Apr 22 - 09:21 PM
keberoxu 25 Apr 22 - 09:31 PM
keberoxu 01 May 22 - 05:33 PM
keberoxu 08 May 22 - 09:45 PM
keberoxu 11 May 22 - 09:27 PM
keberoxu 14 May 22 - 03:45 PM
keberoxu 19 May 22 - 06:27 PM

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Subject: BS: Bahai's
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 11:58 AM

updated 4:42 p.m. EST, Fri January 16, 2009

   Iranian media report Baha'i missionary arrests

Story Highlights
News service says women held for work on island in Persian Gulf

Media didn't say how many women were held or when

Baha'is say they have been targeted in Iran because of their faith

Six other group members were arrested this week, Baha'is say

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Iranian authorities have reportedly arrested several women for doing missionary work for the Baha'is, the religious group whose persecution by the Islamic republic has been condemned by human rights activists and governments around the globe.

Tabnak, a semi-official Iranian news service, reported the development but did not specify how many women were arrested or when they were seized.

The arrests took place in Kish Island, Iranian territory in the Persian Gulf, the agency said. Tabnak said some of those arrested came from Tehran and others from abroad.

"For a long time now, those who wanted to recruit young Iranian men to join the Baha'is used attractive women as bait," the site said. "Israel has given sanctuary to the leaders of this perverted group [Baha'is] for many years, and the United States and Britain have provided them with billions of dollars to engage in propaganda."

This news comes after the Baha'i movement reported that six members of the group were arrested in Tehran this week, including one who works with lawyer and activist Shirin Ebadi, a Nobel peace laureate. Seven leaders of the group seized in 2008 remain in jail.

In a resolution Thursday, the European Parliament condemned Iran's harassment of Ebadi, who had been threatened when she undertook the defense of the seven people arrested. The parliament also criticized the dissemination of "false information" by Iran's Islamic Republic News Agency, which said Ebadi's daughter converted to the Baha'i faith.

The parliament says "allegation can have serious consequences since Baha'i believers are harshly persecuted in Iran."

The Baha'is -- who believe they are targeted in the predominantly Shiite nation because of their faith -- have faced oppression, including arrests, over the years.

They say the persecution is part of a pattern of religious persecution that began in 1979. That's when the monarchy of the Shah of Iran was toppled and an Islamic republic was created.

The Baha'is say the government's philosophies are based largely on the idea that there can be "no prophet following Mohammed" and that their faith "poses a theological challenge to this belief."

The Baha'is say they regard their founder, Baha'u'llah, as "the most recent in the line of Messengers of God that stretches back beyond recorded time and that includes Abraham, Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Christ and Mohammed."

The Baha'is, regarded as the largest non-Muslim religious minority in Iran, say they have 5 million members around the globe and about 300,000 in Iran.

The Baha'i World Center, which the movement refers to as its "spiritual and administrative heart," is in the Acre/Haifa area in northern Israel. That location predates the founding of the state of Israel; it was formed during the Ottoman Empire's rule of Palestine.

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Subject: RE: BS: Bahai's
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 12:28 PM

I am friends with two Baha'i women in the US- they literally escaped from Iran some years back. I personally am not interested in the Baha'i faith despite being intrigued by its peaceful inclusiveness, mainly because of its focus on its founder.

That said, I'm not sure about the rationale for this thread?

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Subject: RE: BS: Bahai's
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 02:52 PM

Bahais have been persecuted in Iran ever since the first appearance of the Bahia faith, back in the 1800s. They are regarded as apostates from the Islamic faith (the Bahai teachings arose out of Islam itself). In other words, it's a problem that long predated Ahmadinejad or the present Islamic regime. All you can say about it is "same old shit...different day".

If I was a Bahai, I would get out of Iran if I could. The Bahai faith is extremely open-minded and tends to attract very intelligent and peaceful people, I find. Like Ebbie, though, I'm a bit bothered by their tendency to focus so much on their founder. (I'm bothered by that in a lot of different religions...) ;-) As far as their basic ideas go, they're excellent.

The rationale for this thread is simple, Ebbie. It is Bearded Bruce reminding the world once again that IRAN is deeply EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!! And we must destroy their evil regime once and for all or we will never be able to live in safety again. BB hopes to encourage the rest of the world in this attitude until Iran is nuked, Ahmadinejad is hanged, the Mullahs are all exterminated, and the place is paved over and turned into a huge B'nai Brith centre....or perhaps the world's biggest WalMart.

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Subject: RE: BS: Bahai's
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 03:08 PM

Wrong, LH

"BB hopes to encourage the rest of the world in this attitude until Iran is nuked,"

I most certainly do not want ANYONE nuked: I think that we need to take steps to prevent that. Many of those here loudest about peace are actually enabling the next war to be nuclear, by their support of Iran.

Hanging Ahmadinejad is a good start, though...

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Subject: RE: BS: Bahai's
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 03:51 PM

It's my understanding that under the Shah Bahai's were at least tolerated, and that after the coming of Ayatollah it was open season, in the worst sense, on Bahai's.

I'm against 'nuking' Iran and it's as good a subject as any other in the forum, and better than quite a few.

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Subject: RE: BS: Bahai's
From: open mike
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 03:41 AM

I am a Bahai' and have heard of many instances of mistreatment and detention of Bahai's in Iraq and Iran. Bahaullah himself was imprisoned for many years around 1844 due to the Islamic power structure.

there was an instance last spring where 6 or 7 members of a Bahai council were arrested and imprisoned in Iran

this was in may 2008

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Subject: RE: BS: Bahai's
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Apr 22 - 01:02 PM

Seals & Crofts, the musical duo from Texas, have recorded many songs
about their Baha'i faith, which is how I heard of the religion.
I have yet to meet Baha'i adherents, somehow I don't move in their circles.

The Seals and Crofts album, Down Home, has a bunch of such songs:
Hollow Reed, Purple Hand.
Then there are Hummingbird, Ancient of the Old.
They have made recordings which are available only through
official Baha'i outlets as well, like The Lote Tree (a collaboration).

I have looked at both Baha'i topic threads with interest,
having myself just studied online what I could find with searches.

The apostasy question recurs on each thread.
This is some context.

The prophet who named himself Baha'u'llah
(a Persian birth-named Mirza Husayn Ali Nuri),
did indeed spend much of his life incarcerated.
Did Persia actually banish him? I fear they may have done.
As to Israel:
Baha'u'llah was imprisoned there in Acre, a notorious place.
Old and ill, at the end of his life the prophet was permitted
to live under house arrest of a sort,
so he died in a private home in or near Haifa.
That is Israel's claim to fame, as the place where the prophet died;
and the surviving adherents took it from there.
This was long before the 20th century decisions on Palestine.

The schism happened in the generation following the death of the prophet.
He named one of his sons his successor in his last will and testament.
However he not only had more than one son,
he also had more than one marriage.
His sons had more than one mother, it follows, and at least one such spouse of the Prophet was fiercely ambitious for HER son.

When the smoke cleared, as it were,
the named successor was shunned, while
the younger half-brother had become the Guardian.
His son, the prophet's grandson, was the last of the Guardians, dying without issue.

With the death of the last of the Guardians,
it is now a Universal House of Justice, a collaboration, which holds power.

Yes, the prophet Baha'u'llah had multiple children and successors.
It is reported that these still adhere to the Baha'i faith and
are permitted to worship with the rest.
What the survivors may NOT do is hold positions of responsibility or power,
to that extent they are -- gulp -- shunned.

And the consequence is that
there is more than one Baha'i organization,
and there have been lawsuits amongst them for generations.
It is all deeply human, whatever divinity may manifest among the faithful.
And rather disillusioning.

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Subject: RE: BS: Bahai's
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Apr 22 - 04:38 PM

Way back in the early '70's I went with some friends to the Cellar Door in D.C. to see Seals and Crofts and they invited us to a meeting at an old house in Georgetown after the show. We went and listened to the word and as Dash had promised, some pretty wicked hash was being passed around so I'm not sure how closely those folks adhered to the faith.

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Subject: RE: BS: Bahai's
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Apr 22 - 08:16 PM

Thought this interview link belonged on this thread, since it is from a Baha'i website, and the visual artist profiled there
focuses much of the story on her portrait art.

That said, there is a music connection, as she is
the daughter of Jim Seals and the former Ruby Jean Anderson,
one of three children of theirs.

Profile of Juliet Seals Crossley

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Subject: RE: BS: Bahai's
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Apr 22 - 11:39 PM

I don't know a whole lot about the Baha'i faith, although I have had good contacts with them in local social justice activities, and I took a Racial Healing course from them recently.
They have terrific taste in architecture. When I was a kid in Wisconsin, I loved to see the Bahá'í House of Worship (Wilmette, Illinois). A few years ago, I visited Haifa in Israel and saw their beautiful Shrine of the Báb with a gorgeous view of the Mediterranean beyond.

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Subject: RE: BS: Bahai's
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Apr 22 - 05:19 PM

There is an annual Baha'i festival coming up shortly,
the title is Ridvan which is the name of a garden.
It seems that the religion's founder made a momentous proclamation to his founders
while seated in a garden, and thus, this annual feast of several days' duration.

Also, the Baha'i calendar is ... different from the European West.
Lunar, maybe? anyway, the new year begins with
the first day of spring.

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Subject: RE: BS: Bahai's
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Apr 22 - 05:36 PM

A low profile is usually maintained worldwide by adherents to the Baha'i 'cause', as the literature terms it.
This is an exception.

Shrine of Abdu'l Baha, under construction, resumes after major fire

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Subject: RE: BS: Bahai's
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 22 - 08:17 PM

They are more open minded than the competition. They can also satisfy herd mentality needs but have all the normal human foibles.

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Subject: RE: BS: Bahai's
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Apr 22 - 09:21 PM

Oh, that's a shame about the shrine in Acre. I wanted to get the chance to visit Acre, but I missed it on my two trips to Israel. The shrine in Haifa is exquisite, as is the one north of Chicago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bahai's
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 09:31 PM

My post of 11 April 2022 had a statement which, although it appears widely printed -- and I copied it as I saw it -- is incorrect.
This was when speaking of the descendants
of Baha'u'llah through the designated Guardians.

It is correct that the Guardian known as Abdu'l Baha
was one of Baha'u'llah's sons.

I stated, however, that Shoghi Effendi was the son of Abdu'l Baha,
and this is mistaken.
Abdu'l Baha's children included
Diya'iyyih Khanum, the oldest of his daughters.
She in turn married, and
Shoghi Effendi was her son.

Thus, Abdu'l Baha and Shoghi Effendi
are grandfather and grandson, not father and son.

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Subject: RE: BS: Bahai's
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 May 22 - 05:33 PM

Great variety may be observed amongst those who, today,
have a personal sense of identification to the Baha'i "cause".

Consider the academic and historian named Abbas Amanat.
He is a long-time Director of the Yale Program in Iranian Studies as well as serving as the Chair of the Yale University Council on Middle East Studies.
Professor Amanat is also a born and raised native of Iran,
descended from Iranian Jews who converted to the Baha'i faith.
His entire family -- both parents, and two brothers, as well as himself -- left Iran at the time when the Shah lost power and the Islamic regime ascended.
Professor Amanat has a historian for a brother, and both brothers credit their father, Mousa [sometimes Musa] Amanat, for their passion for history.

Amanat does not wear his Baha'i faith on his sleeve.
He keeps an academician's detachment and disengagement, by choice, from the organization which answers to the faithful.
I am getting ready to read one of his scholarly books,
Resurrection and Renewal, about Baha'i origins in Iran.
This author, and his book, have great credibility in academia, and the book should be more than interesting.

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Subject: RE: BS: Bahai's
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 May 22 - 09:45 PM

This week, Resurrection and Renewal, about Iran/Persia's nineteenth-century appearance of the Baha'i movement, my order of a copy of the book ought to be delivered.

The story linked to in this post,
will combine subjects of several previous posts.

Professor Abbas Amanat, the author of Resurrection and Renewal,
has an older brother, Hossein Amanat, an architect who since leaving Iran has established his company and headquarters in Vancouver.

It is Hossein Amanat's design which is being used to construct the Shrine of 'Abdu'l Baha, the same shrine
which caught fire while under construction this spring. Check out that photograph of the fire itself.

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Subject: RE: BS: Bahai's
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 May 22 - 09:27 PM

This feature news article is fifteen years old, however
it is still a good introduction to the Baha'i faith.
At the time of printing, according to this article,
the nation with the most Baha'i adherents was India --
that may still be the case.
India has a particularly outstanding Baha'i house of worship.

Oakland Ross writing for the Toronto Star, October 22, 2007

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Subject: RE: BS: Bahai's
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 May 22 - 03:45 PM

In the United States, the Baha'i faithful are divided into geographic regions, and most regions have, besides modest assemblies in towns or in the countryside, a few densely populated areas where there is a large enough concentration of Baha'i individuals to be classified as a "cluster."

Boston, Massachusetts is one of the Baha'i "cluster" areas in the US.
Right now, the Boston Baha'i 'cluster' faces the sort of challenge which is common to virtually every other religion where the faithful assemble together.

There exists a Boston Baha'i center, an urban building located in the city area of the Southwest, near the Roxbury neighborhood and the 'South End'.

Last year, in the wake of the pandemic and after a lengthy period of no public assemblies, the Baha'i 'cluster' in Boston heard from
the Boston Inspectional Services Department, ISD for short.
The ISD pronounced the building condemned,
saying that the wood material is rotting.

This year, that address, 593 Albany Street, is the approved site for construction of new residential housing, as per the Zoning Board of Appeals on April 5, 2022.

This means that the Greater Boston population of Baha'i faithful will have to coordinate with each other to work out how to assemble together.
I have no information of how this group has coped with the coronavirus pandemic.

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Subject: RE: BS: Baha'is
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 May 22 - 06:27 PM

The page to which this post will link, is, I believe,
a form of blog site, someone has made a webpage out of a blog.
But it represents something different than a blog.
In fact, if it is what it says it is,
then I think this is something heroic.

But I warn you about the blog format, because
the font is really tiny, making the page difficult to read.

Baha'i Institute for Higher Education

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