Raffles at UK folk clubs

Subject: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Jack Campin
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 02:00 PM

Some time ago I went my girlfriend to a jazz club, something we don't do all that often. One comment she made was "Isn't it a relief to know there won't be a raffle?"

Where did this bizarre ritual come from? You don't expect to have raffle tickets pushed at you at an organ recital, football match, funeral, tarot reading or theatre performance. Folk clubs presumably got it from some other kind of public gathering in the Fifties, but what?

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: the fence
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 02:15 PM

No idea, maybe the use of a raffle allows the cost on the door to be lowered. Not everyone buys a raffle ticket but it does help to keep costs down on the door and goes towards guest nights.

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Megan L
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 02:20 PM

Village halls have always had raffles at concerts, ceildhs, dances and almost everything else

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 02:22 PM

We do a great raffle at Cottingham Live-our specialist raffinistas, Mr & Mrs Raffle, do wine, chocs, free entry ticket AND the legendary Cottingham Live Mystery prize in its own black velvet bag. There is all hell on if the chocolates don't get shared out.

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 02:28 PM

If we make money at our village hall, its from the Raffle and bar. We certainly do not make any money from the door.
The money we make goes to things that help the village and the hall.
The money that comes in from the door, pays the performers and support acts and some times the bar licence and hire of the hall.

We try to keep our door price as low as possible, unless we are given a ticket price by the agent that we have to apply if we want the act.

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 02:34 PM

Because most folk clubs are not for profit, charge less than football matches, and need to supplement the door money.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 02:35 PM

Thats us :-)

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: breezy
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 04:00 PM

swimming galas have raffles

I like to see the raffle prize as a CD of either the or an artiste, it lasts longer than wine and then it can be re raffled as required.

One club passes a box to choose from a selection, one night the winner didnt take one as the selection was rather naff to say the least

free entry is usually a good prize

The raffle is trad in Folk Clubs,can be the most exciting part on some singer's nights, so buy and shurrup

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 04:04 PM

FREE ENTRY is a very good prize.

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Surreysinger
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 04:05 PM

"You don't expect to have raffle tickets pushed at you at an organ recital, football match, funeral, tarot reading or theatre performance"
Not true!! I work in a small theatre, which hosts both amateur and professional acts and groups ... the raffle is quite often a feature of some of the groups' events - for instance next week we have a production of the musical "Honk", and the raffle is already being discussed.As with folk clubs it enables them to raise funds. And we used to run a raffle at Christmas each year for at least four weeks beforehand at every performance, of whatever nature, to raise funds for the Friends of the theatre, who provide some of the costly items on the theatre's wish list. For instance the Friends in the past have funded purchase of new seat covers, baby changing equipment, notice boards, foyer curtains etc

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 04:08 PM

Surely a raffle is traditionally English!

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 04:11 PM

If it's a small folk club or not well attended the odds of winning can be excellent.

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 04:32 PM

Hiya - I've got nothing to say but I thought this was one thread I should be in :-)

please carry on ..

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: breezy
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 04:34 PM

Vinegar Butt makes the drawing of the raffle , an act in itself.

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 04:43 PM

As he did at Faldingworth last Saturday

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 04:49 PM

Just about every football ground I've ever been to (and it's a lot!) from the Premier league to small regional leagues has a raffle of some sort (though it's usually called a 50/50 draw or somesuch) which is drawn at half-time - often by a retired player or other local 'celeb'. They do it for the same reason as Folk Clubs - it's a way of getting another pound off those punters who wish to buy a ticket.

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 06:38 PM

The first time I went to Chorlton FC, I won the raffle; I won it another three times in the next six weeks. Since then, unfortunately, the law of averages has reasserted itself and I haven't won a thing.

(Yes, obviously it's a fund-raising thing. How much did you pay on the door at the jazz club?)

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 07:20 PM

A raffle is not only a way of raising cash so that clubs can book decent guest artists - it's a social thing, a part of the evening which can be light-hearted and a bit of light entertainment in the middle of the performing. If the MC is good at his/her job, the raffle can be good fun, with banter and jokes. A good folk club is more than just the music - it's an evening of communal fun and good fellowship.

In any case, I'm biased, 'cos I won a bottle of Cote du Rhone at the Elephant & Castle in Lewes!

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: TheSnail
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 08:03 PM

topsie

If it's a small folk club or not well attended the odds of winning can be excellent.

Unless Breton Cap is there. I think he's done some sort of pact at the crossroads at midnight.

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Betsy
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 08:10 PM

No Objections on my part - it's all part of the gam.e

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: GUEST,Folknacious ex log-in
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 08:34 PM

It does annoy me when the raffle ticket seller doesn't know what the prize is. "It's a CD". "Which CD?" "Oh, a folk one." Not uncommon, and not good enough!

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 10:40 PM

Here in the States, for many years Catholic Churches have had raffles on cars donated by local dealers and/or the manufacturer. Sometimes they have raffled off a nice used car the dealer may have had on his lot. However, I recently read that with this severe economic downturn things have changed and the National Automobile Dealers Association is raffling off a 1997 Catholic Church.

They say its in nice shape with all the original statuary and stained glass and has a lot of masses left in its padded kneeling rails. The wine cellar is well stocked and there are 147,000 boxes of Body of Christ brand communion wafers in the basement.


Spaw

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Sooz
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 04:25 AM

When our raffle has been drawn at the end of the interval, we ask everyone to keep hold of their tickets. Then, if there isn't time for a full run round the room to finish off the evening, we raffle the remaining spots. If your number comes out, you can either sing a song or nominate someone else to do so. This can be great fun and it gives non-performers a bit of power which they always seem to use to good effect.
PS I've won the mystery prize in the velvet bag at Cottingham... nice!
PPS We've been the paid performer at another club in which the raffle prize of a box of Quality Street was passed around during the first song of our second set.......... I am in full agreement with Vin about crisp packets!

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: GUEST,doc.tom
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 05:54 AM

Yes, yes - I agree raffles are traditional @ FCs. And as long as they are done with homour, good taste, and not PUSHING can be a fun part of the evening. At Shammick Acoustic we usually have 3 prizes: A bottle of wine, a choice of CD from BB & my touring CD shop, and ONE free entry for the next guest night (Open Nights are free entry anyway). We have recently decided NOT to include a guest's CD in the raffle as analysis shows it lowers the number he/she/they/it actually sell in the course of the evening (everybody waits to see if they've won it - and then can't be bothered to hang around at the end if they haven't!- so they buy in the interval instead).
TomB

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 06:08 AM

It does annoy me when the raffle ticket seller doesn't know what the prize is

Raffle ticket sellers at folk clubs are invariably volunteers (or volunteered!) and are doing it for the good of the club. They often do not know what the organisers have in mind for the prize apart from it is usualy a CD or a bottle of wine. The raffle is usualy supplimenting the meagre door money and it is the giving that is important, not the winning.

Curmudgeonly is the word that springs to mind for some reason:-)

DeG

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 06:11 AM

Raffles started off as a way of getting round licensing laws at venues that lacked a permit for alcohol sales. And we are all aware of how the "private club" ploy of evading public entertainment licensing was counterproductive to the image of trad music in England.

Sure, raffles make some extra dosh because punters are too embarrassed NOT to buy a ticket when publicly harassed by someone waving a roll of tickets, but they are, thankfully, illegal in the US unless the proceeds are for charity.

Door prices should be set at an economic rate to cover all costs, including paying a guest artist the rate for the job. This, in turn, would surely encourage more punters to attend. Given the ridiculously low ticket cost it's little wonder the vast majority of the population assume that the "entertainment" thus provided at "f*lk clubs" must be rubbish.

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: wyrdolafr
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 06:24 AM

I wish there was something else other than wine as a raffle prize. Am I really that unusual in not liking wine?

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Banjiman
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 06:30 AM

Pays for the hall hire, couldn't survive without it!

Do people really mind?

Paul

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Mo the caller
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 08:10 AM

Raffles

The sort I find annoying are the ones (often at dance clubs), where an announcement is made "please bring a raffle prize", and everyone does. The raffle takes forever - 'I've already won, draw it again'.

We had a vote at our club someone objected to raffles at the Saturday dances. It was fairly evenly split between people who liked them and those who didn't, so the committe decided to carry on to help afford good bands and callers.

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Darowyn
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 08:25 AM

At Huntingdon Hall, in Worcester, a very prestigious venue for folk and acoustic acts, there is a notorious raffle.
You buy a ticket and sit trembling in fear that you might win an imitation wire miniature birdcage containing a bottle of onion-scented bubble bath, or some such delight.
Over the years the raffle has helped to pay for the conservation of a gorgeous historic building.
I did win once, but it was a voucher for free tickets for the next concert, so that was OK.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Jeanie
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 09:06 AM

I love the "bring your contribution to the raffle" type of raffles, because of the bizarre and incongruous collection of Stuff with a Capital S which appears on the raffle table. It always reminds me of "Kim's Game" that you had to play in Brownies in order to win the "memory badge" or some such (...sorry, I've forgotten quite why we had to do it now...)

Darowyn, I DID actually win a miniature birdcage containing bubble bath at one such event, and it sat proudly displayed on my fireplace for many a year. Raffles are a great way for people to get rid of stuff they don't want. The very best raffles I have taken part in were with a theatre group who used to raffle any un-reusable props and items at the after-show party. I became the proud owner of the gruesome blood-stained baby. Someone else won the stale sandwich. Wonderful.

The ritual Choosing of the Raffle Prizes from the Table can often be as entertaining as whatever the official entertainment of the evening may be. That's my take on it, anyway.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Marje
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 11:19 AM

I don't much care for raffles myself, but I can see the point of them. At a folk club or similar event, it's a way of offering a chance to contribute a bit more to the funds, with the chance of a prize to make it more interesting. This means the door price can be kept down, with the extra top-up from the raffle money being contributed by those who are able and willing to pay a bit more.

When I ran a pub music session we used to have a raffle. This was so that I could raise a little money to pay for adverts in the local folk magazine, and print out flyers to distribute about the session. Nowadays there would be enough opportunities for free publicity on the internet, but this was quite a few years ago, when publicity cost money.

We often sold tickets to non-participating pub customers as well as to the players. Some people apparently enjoyed the raffle, as it gave an opportunity for a bit of socialising and "crack". When I left the area, the session was thriving and no longer needed publicity, so I spent what was left in the kitty on a couple of jugs of beer to share around. The raffle had served its purpose.

Marje

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 11:26 AM

Years ago I used to go to a small folk club where the people running the raffle would tear off the stubs and put them in the box, always starting from the last ticket sold, with the tickets sold first ending up near the top of the pile. The result was that the winner was always among the first few people to buy tickets (and I don't think the people who noticed this mentioned it to anyone - they were just the keenest to buy tickets when selling started).
Could this be Breton Cap's secret, rather than some shady dealings at a crossroads?

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: GUEST,DaveMc
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 11:35 AM

Could someone perhaps auction the ever fragrant Ms Easby off as a sourer alternative to a club raffle? I'm sure that'd have 'em queuing around the block. The coffers of what she drolly persists in calling f*lk clubs would runneth over.

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: GUEST,Johnny J
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 11:50 AM

Well the originator of this thread never buys raffle tickets anyway so why should he worry? :-)

Perhaps, if many people hold the same view, folk clubs should dispense with the raffle but I reckon that we would have to increase the door charge by at least £1 to compensate for this loss of income. The amount of raffle money(In pounds) we take in tends to be roughly equal to the number of punters but other audiences will probably be more generous than those in Edinburgh. Having said that, those who actually do purchase tickets at EFC are much more generous than that as they obviously make up for those who are too miserable.

Of course, there will be some genuine cases where a person can't afford to buy a ticket but, if that's the case, would they be able to pay the extra £1-£2 which would be necessary if we abolished the raffle? So, at least they're able to come along to the concert.

One other benefit for folk clubs is that raffle money will go into *club funds* whereas a large percentage (if not all, in some cases) of door money MUST be paid to the guest artist. Of course, if we can't meet the fee with the door money, we still have to subsidise it from club funds.

So, it is important that a club does build up a reserve of funds. It's not for the benefit of any indivual on the committee/club and, of course, it gets ploughed back "into the music" eventually. However, it gives clubs a cushion if the door takings are poor on a particular night and can also enable a more adventurous booking policy when you don't always have to worry about making an occasional loss.

Anyway, it's also a bit of fun surely?

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 12:09 PM

Be warned all you Club MCs - I once announced "The High Spot of the Evening - The Raffle!" And found myself six inches off the ground , held by the throat by a VERY Irate Guest who informed me " WE are the High Spot of your F*****g Evening !

They were nearing the end of an arduous six weeks tour , and were a little frayed !

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 12:42 PM

I am not for sale.

I propose rather an auction of the smug, supercilious, self-satisfied, sexist, patronising prats who choose, inexplicably, to label themselves "f*lkies", harass women and bore everyone else.
The only drawback is that any funds thus raised would have to be used as bribes to keep away the tonally- and metrically-challenged, perpetual "blokes-in-the-corner", unable even after uncounted decades to get a tune or song right even when they're reading it from their grubby exercise books.
Back to Plan A then.
Charge a credible door fee that facilitates a living wage for performers and pays for a non-naff venue.
And drop the effing "f" word along with the raffle. It's far worse than meaningless and merits prosecution under the Trades Drescription Act.

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 12:47 PM

Diane, you have such a way with words :-)

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: evansakes
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 12:49 PM

Ye gods! Can you BLAME the artist for reacting that way?

Reading the above messages reminds me why we ditched the raffle at Twickfolk. It was one of the best things we've ever done. We haven't done one for several years now....and the strange thing is we didn't announce we were going to stop running one....and no-one seemed to notice (certainly no-one complained).

Raffles were clearly alienating and bemusing any newcomers who weren't au fait with this quaint aspect of folk club tradition. They were also becoming tiresome and a complete joke with our regulars and also taking up much too much time (eg waiting while someone trawls round all the bars and toilets asking if anyone's got 37 on the blue). In most cases people had zero interest in the prizes so in effect it had become nothing more than a voluntary extra donation/tax to the door charge. Of course this isn't necessary if a realistic charge is applied in the first place.

As a result no-one now feels compelled to engage in a time-wasting charade (or is in any danger of being called a miserable sod if they choose not to)....and you get an extra two or three songs per night.

A decent result all round.

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: breezy
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 01:32 PM

hey leadfingers, I think holding you up by the throat was probably the high spot of their tour, I would have paid good money to see that

name names please cruel divas need to be bought to heel

The raffle can be a great opportunity for organisers/committee to socially engage with attendees who may be very reticent and could possibly leave without having spoken to anyone

Hey Twick, an extra 3songs = drawing the raffle

we sold raffle Tickets on the door or during the interval, the draw was made before the main guest and if the winner was not present we drew it again, all over in 60 seconds and by then the main guest was ready to go straight into intro or song

Then they would have to wait till the end to collect prize, sometimes they forgot, that way we would have some audience stay till the end.

A lower door price is preferential and the raffle 'take' can reflect the numbers present.

Most supporters would purchase only the odd one would decline the invitation, usually a very odd one.

50% of a raffle take ought to be returned in prize value, hence a bottle of plonk reflects the state of many clubs finances

BTW Mr TwickFolk:

When is Chuck coming to the patch please and can I have a floor spot that night, and if you want , I'll do the raffle, O K lets settle for a floor spot, give hamish a ring.Cheers

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: BB
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 05:45 PM

"The raffle can be a great opportunity for organisers/committee to socially engage with attendees who may be very reticent and could possibly leave without having spoken to anyone"

This was the main purpose when we instituted a raffle at our concerts, which is why there are three good prizes, thus often making us very little money.

Never found anyone who seemed to object - if people don't want to buy tickets, it's not a problem and we don't push it, and very little time is taken up by it.

Barbara

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 06:11 PM

I'm another one who has an 'anti raffle' gene. At a Gathering of fewer than 20 people in Scotland a couple of years ago, everyone won at least one prize (and several won multiple prizes) except for me. My tickets - and yes, I had bought several) were never drawn. I harboured suspicions that they had not been put in at all... but I was assured this was not the case and as there were so many prizes, the last one went to who ever had not won... so I got something.

But you can guarantee that in a group of 3 or more people, I will not have a single winning ticket.

LTS

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: TheSnail
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 07:27 PM

Liz the Squeak

But you can guarantee that in a group of 3 or more people, I will not have a single winning ticket.

You must be the balancing statistic to Breton Cap. I swear there are times that he has won the raffle when he wasn't even there.

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 03:40 PM

"The raffle can be a great opportunity for organisers/committee to socially engage with attendees who may be very reticent and could possibly leave without having spoken to anyone"

I agree with Breezy and Barbara on this point.

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Dave Earl
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 03:49 PM

Bryan,

It's not a plot or cunning plan I only ever buy £1 or £2 of tickets

Suggest you work more closely with the drawers of tickets and devise a plan that ensures I come awy with fewer bottles of wine.

:-)

Dave

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 03:53 PM

At Traditions at the Tiger the raffle (or Tiger Twist as it is better known) has been a part of the night for the last eighteen years and the one night I thought that we wouldn't have a raffle the atmosphere was almost hostile!! Since Sunday 1st February will be our 18th Birthday (Jeff Davis from USA will be guest)we are going to have a FREE raffle with CDs, wine and other star prizes. All will be welcome.

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 04:01 PM

Raffles at uk folk clubs.
when does his tour start ,is he going to give workshops,In cat burglary,
will he be appearing at The folk club frequented by the Snail,is he featured at their workshops.
Arthur J. Raffles is a character created in the 1890s by E. W. Hornung, a brother-in-law to Arthur Conan Doyle, the creator of Sherlock Holmes. Raffles is, in many ways, a deliberate inversion of Holmes — he is a "gentleman thief," living in The Albany, a prestigious address in London, playing cricket for the Gentlemen of England and supporting himself by carrying out ingenious burglaries. He is called the "Amateur Cracksman," and often, at first, differentiates between himself and the "professors" — professional criminals from the lower classes.

As Holmes has Dr. Watson to chronicle his adventures, Raffles has Harry "Bunny" Manders — a former schoolmate saved from disgrace and suicide by Raffles, who persuaded him to accompany him on a burglary. While Raffles often takes advantage of Manders' relative innocence, and sometimes treats him with a certain amount of contempt, he knows that Manders' bravery and loyalty are to be relied on utterly. In several stories, Manders saves the day for the two of them after Raffles gets into situations he cannot get out of on his own.

One of the things that Raffles has in common with Holmes is a mastery of disguise — during his days as an ostensible man-about-town, he maintains a studio apartment in another name in which he keeps the components of various disguises, and he can imitate the regional speech of many parts of Britain flawlessly, despite his lack of skill at foreign language.

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 04:53 PM

LEADFINGERS,got his name thus,when they picked him up,just before they threw him,they shoute fingers first,and so for evermore he was known as leadfingers,because they lead with his fingers.[ill get my kilt]

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Splott Man
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 04:13 AM

At Llantrisant FC we have a chorus raffle which, leaves many a guest bemused.

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Mar 09 - 09:28 AM

I forgot to mention earlier that at our raffles whoever draws the ticket is invited to 'pull out their own'. Not often anyone gets that offer in public! Funny thing is that they often do as well...

:D (eG)

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Mar 09 - 10:02 AM

One comment she made was "Isn't it a relief to know there won't be a raffle?"

Sounds like a girl who can't say no ;)

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: bubblyrat
Date: 12 Mar 09 - 02:23 PM

We at Marlow always have a raffle,usually with either wine or CDs as prizes,plus a mystery prize----last night it was Bendicks Dark Chocolate Bitter Mints,which the winners chose ! We don't have paid "guests" at our club, so the money thus raised ,for the last two years anyway,goes to subsidise (for club regulars)our hearty Christmas Dinner at one of our more salubrious venues.

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 Mar 09 - 03:03 PM

Despite the request to 'Name Names' I WONT ! Suffice to say that it was thirty years or so back , and the Artist in question is STILL Packing them in ! We have had a laugh about it at a festival , not too long after the Raffle incident !

Subject: RE: Raffles at UK folk clubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 09 - 03:44 PM

One of our local session pubs held a quiz and raffle to raise money for a cancer day-care centre.
One of the prizes was a donkey and when the number was drawn the guv'nor brought it in and presented it to the winner.
Jim Carroll