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Australian Songs of Influence

GUEST,Dominique 28 Jan 09 - 12:54 AM
The Fooles Troupe 28 Jan 09 - 01:28 AM
nager 28 Jan 09 - 01:39 AM
Helen 28 Jan 09 - 01:59 AM
nager 28 Jan 09 - 02:08 AM
GUEST,Black Hawk on works pc 28 Jan 09 - 03:57 AM
SINSULL 28 Jan 09 - 09:21 AM
John Routledge 28 Jan 09 - 09:33 AM
quokka 28 Jan 09 - 09:38 AM
John Routledge 28 Jan 09 - 09:39 AM
quokka 28 Jan 09 - 09:40 AM
Tangledwood 28 Jan 09 - 05:33 PM
oldhippie 28 Jan 09 - 05:50 PM
bfdk 28 Jan 09 - 06:10 PM
Sandra in Sydney 28 Jan 09 - 07:00 PM
Helen 29 Jan 09 - 01:02 AM
Bert 29 Jan 09 - 01:16 AM
Bert 29 Jan 09 - 01:21 AM
Sandra in Sydney 29 Jan 09 - 01:42 AM
Bert 29 Jan 09 - 01:54 AM
freda underhill 29 Jan 09 - 08:27 AM
freda underhill 29 Jan 09 - 08:38 AM
freda underhill 29 Jan 09 - 08:51 AM
freda underhill 29 Jan 09 - 09:08 AM
rich-joy 29 Jan 09 - 06:46 PM
GUEST,Bill the sound 29 Jan 09 - 06:52 PM
rich-joy 29 Jan 09 - 06:56 PM
Andrez 29 Jan 09 - 07:36 PM
Charley Noble 29 Jan 09 - 09:01 PM
GUEST,John Gray in Oz 29 Jan 09 - 09:39 PM
Hrothgar 30 Jan 09 - 03:34 AM
Tangledwood 30 Jan 09 - 04:09 AM
Andrez 30 Jan 09 - 04:21 AM
nager 30 Jan 09 - 05:12 AM
Helen 30 Jan 09 - 02:07 PM
Charley Noble 30 Jan 09 - 08:55 PM
The Sandman 30 Jan 09 - 09:05 PM
Sandra in Sydney 31 Jan 09 - 12:47 AM
rich-joy 31 Jan 09 - 04:15 AM
Dave Hanson 31 Jan 09 - 07:43 AM
Helen 31 Jan 09 - 12:29 PM
GUEST,Dave Hall 31 Jan 09 - 01:07 PM
Dennis the Elder 31 Jan 09 - 08:10 PM
topical tom 31 Jan 09 - 10:39 PM
Reinhard 01 Feb 09 - 03:22 AM
Andrez 01 Feb 09 - 04:03 AM
Charley Noble 01 Feb 09 - 10:25 AM
topical tom 01 Feb 09 - 11:23 AM
GUEST,John from Elsie`s band 01 Feb 09 - 11:41 AM
Bill D 01 Feb 09 - 02:29 PM
Reinhard 01 Feb 09 - 03:26 PM
The Sandman 01 Feb 09 - 04:04 PM
The Sandman 01 Feb 09 - 04:06 PM
GUEST 01 Feb 09 - 05:18 PM
Dennis the Elder 01 Feb 09 - 06:23 PM
cobber 01 Feb 09 - 06:38 PM
Bill D 01 Feb 09 - 07:01 PM
Bob Bolton 01 Feb 09 - 09:09 PM
Joybell 01 Feb 09 - 09:41 PM
freda underhill 02 Feb 09 - 01:58 AM
Andrez 02 Feb 09 - 06:05 PM
Tangledwood 03 Feb 09 - 04:29 AM
Andrez 03 Feb 09 - 06:06 AM
soulkat9 03 Feb 09 - 11:14 AM
Tangledwood 03 Feb 09 - 07:29 PM
Charley Noble 03 Feb 09 - 07:50 PM
Andrez 03 Feb 09 - 08:53 PM
Bob Bolton 03 Feb 09 - 10:42 PM
Rowan 04 Feb 09 - 07:34 PM
GUEST,Dominique 16 Feb 09 - 08:33 PM
Andrez 17 Feb 09 - 02:25 AM
GUEST 17 Feb 09 - 03:12 AM
GUEST 17 Feb 09 - 03:14 AM
Stewie 17 Feb 09 - 03:20 AM
Tangledwood 17 Feb 09 - 05:33 PM
GUEST,Dominique 17 Feb 09 - 06:17 PM
Tangledwood 17 Feb 09 - 10:34 PM
GUEST,Dominique 18 Feb 09 - 02:54 AM
GUEST,Dominique 18 Feb 09 - 08:06 AM
GUEST,Dominique 18 Feb 09 - 08:27 AM
freda underhill 18 Feb 09 - 08:45 AM
GUEST,Dominique 18 Feb 09 - 04:01 PM
GUEST,Allen in Oz 18 Feb 09 - 04:42 PM
GUEST,Gerry 18 Feb 09 - 05:09 PM
Tangledwood 18 Feb 09 - 06:00 PM
rich-joy 18 Feb 09 - 06:26 PM
freda underhill 19 Feb 09 - 05:44 AM
freda underhill 19 Feb 09 - 05:54 AM
GUEST,Dominique 19 Feb 09 - 08:29 AM
freda underhill 19 Feb 09 - 08:47 AM
freda underhill 19 Feb 09 - 08:49 AM
JennieG 19 Feb 09 - 07:17 PM
GUEST,Dominique 19 Feb 09 - 08:02 PM
GUEST,political and influential 19 Feb 09 - 08:17 PM
GUEST,Dominique 19 Feb 09 - 08:50 PM
Joybell 20 Feb 09 - 12:35 AM
GUEST,Dominique 20 Feb 09 - 12:53 AM
GUEST,Dominique 20 Feb 09 - 09:22 AM
GUEST,Dominique 20 Feb 09 - 09:32 AM
Sandra in Sydney 20 Feb 09 - 10:27 AM
Sandra in Sydney 20 Feb 09 - 10:56 AM
Dennis the Elder 20 Feb 09 - 12:12 PM
Dennis the Elder 20 Feb 09 - 12:31 PM
GUEST,Dominique 20 Feb 09 - 05:43 PM
GUEST,Dominique 20 Feb 09 - 06:03 PM
GUEST,Dominique 20 Feb 09 - 06:12 PM
GUEST,Dominique 20 Feb 09 - 06:14 PM
Sandra in Sydney 20 Feb 09 - 08:22 PM
Joybell 20 Feb 09 - 08:50 PM
Joybell 20 Feb 09 - 09:09 PM
GUEST,Dominique 20 Feb 09 - 09:49 PM
GUEST,Dominique 20 Feb 09 - 10:07 PM
GUEST,Dominique 20 Feb 09 - 10:26 PM
Rowan 20 Feb 09 - 10:30 PM
Joybell 20 Feb 09 - 11:15 PM
rich-joy 20 Feb 09 - 11:20 PM
Joybell 20 Feb 09 - 11:28 PM
GUEST,Dominique 21 Feb 09 - 12:22 AM
GUEST,Dominique 23 Feb 09 - 07:23 AM
freda underhill 23 Feb 09 - 07:44 AM
freda underhill 23 Feb 09 - 07:49 AM
freda underhill 23 Feb 09 - 07:56 AM
rich-joy 23 Feb 09 - 11:10 PM
GUEST,Dominique 23 Feb 09 - 11:39 PM
GUEST,Dominique 23 Feb 09 - 11:40 PM
GUEST,Dominique 23 Feb 09 - 11:43 PM
GUEST,Dominique 24 Feb 09 - 12:00 AM
GUEST,Dominique 24 Feb 09 - 12:12 AM
GUEST,Dominique 24 Feb 09 - 02:22 AM
GUEST,Dominique 24 Feb 09 - 08:29 AM
Rowan 24 Feb 09 - 04:34 PM
GUEST,Dominique 24 Feb 09 - 04:53 PM
Rowan 24 Feb 09 - 10:30 PM
GUEST,Dominique 25 Feb 09 - 03:35 AM
GUEST,Dominique 25 Feb 09 - 06:12 PM
GUEST,Dominique 25 Feb 09 - 06:19 PM
nager 26 Feb 09 - 12:04 AM
GUEST,Dominique 26 Feb 09 - 12:42 AM
Andrez 26 Feb 09 - 07:10 AM
GUEST,Dominique 26 Feb 09 - 08:35 AM
nager 26 Feb 09 - 04:13 PM
GUEST,Dominique 26 Feb 09 - 04:39 PM
GUEST,Dominique 06 Mar 09 - 07:30 AM
GUEST,Dominique 06 Mar 09 - 08:36 AM
GUEST,Dana Sutrton 03 Apr 09 - 01:25 AM
GUEST,george macca 04 Apr 09 - 12:39 AM
Bill S from Adelaide 04 Apr 09 - 05:50 AM
Andrez 06 Apr 09 - 07:04 PM
Rowan 07 Apr 09 - 01:21 AM
GUEST,Dominique 21 Apr 09 - 11:41 PM
GUEST,Nikkiwi 22 Apr 09 - 04:04 AM
GUEST,Dominique 29 Apr 09 - 10:08 AM
Andrez 29 Apr 09 - 08:58 PM
TRUBRIT 30 Apr 09 - 12:17 AM
GUEST,Dominique 30 Apr 09 - 03:05 AM
GUEST,Dominique 28 Oct 09 - 08:15 PM
GUEST,Liora 11 Dec 13 - 09:04 PM
Sandra in Sydney 12 Dec 13 - 07:31 AM
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Subject: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 12:54 AM

Now this is cheeky but I think I have found a good place to post my question. I am a researcher looking at Australian Songs of Influence for the Living Democracy section of the soon to be opened Museum of Democracy in Canberra.
I'm wondering what songs people feel are the truly influential Australian songs?


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 01:28 AM

My Bonnie Lies Over the ocean...

It MUST be influential - we did in singing class in Primary School in the 1950s endlessly....


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: nager
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 01:39 AM

Oh Oh Razzamataz, oh oh razzamataz oh yeah, oh oh razzamattaz...

OR

I feel like a Tooheys, Feel Like a Tooheys, Feel like a Tooheys or two...

OR... (of course)

God Save Our Gracious Queen .. we used to sing that in school too!!!


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Helen
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 01:59 AM

Welcome, Dominique.

A lot of songs by Paul Kelly, Kev Carmody, Archie Roach, Judy Small, and maybe Eric Bogle, etc should be considered. They are just the first singer-songwriters I can think of. I'll post more as they occur to me.

(And consider the first two replies as feeble attempts at humour, to be swatted away like flies at a barbie.) :-)


Good topic for discussion, by the way. It would probably help if you told us a little more about the project. I haven't heard of it before.

Helen


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: nager
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 02:08 AM

At least in a democracy we have the right to make feeble attempts at humour as the temperature here nudges 45 C... yes, Helen it was pretty feeble... I'll try harder next time when the brain is a bit cooler!!
Cheers, Paul


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Black Hawk on works pc
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 03:57 AM

Pub with no Beer!
Waltzing Matilda!

Sorry - obvious but need mentioning.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 09:21 AM

Check out John Warner's work. There are several threads here:
    John Warner Singer Songwriter and Poet (21)
    Lyr Add: Bring Out the Banners (John Warner) (17)
    Chord Req: 'Anderson's Coast' Yet again, and agai (23)
    Anderson's Coast John Warner (19)
    Lyr Req: Kaikoura Railway Memorial (John Warner) (8)
    Lyr Req: Anderson's Coast (John Warner) (13)
    Song lost but not forgotten (Anderson's Coast) (27)
    Lyr Req: Kitty Kane (John Warner) (18)
    Chords/Tablature - Anderson's Coast (4)
    Lyr Add: Wild Bass Straight? / Anderson's Coast (29)
    Lyr/Chords Req: Anderson's Coast (5)
    Lyr Req: Bass Strait? / Anderson's Coast (Warner) (13)
    Lyr Add: Wild Bass Strait? / Anderson's Coast (8)


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: John Routledge
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 09:33 AM

The Drover's Boy - Sorry I don't know the author but it would fit your Songs of Influence category perfectly.

An aspect of Australian history which had been swept under the carpet.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: quokka
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 09:38 AM

Are you looking at a particular era? Style? There are a few rock and folk/rock songs that certainly deserve a mention:

Midnight Oil - 'Beds Are Burning'
Goanna - 'Solid Rock'
Paul Kelly ( virtually everything he wrote)
Kev Carmody (ditto)
Icehouse - 'Great Southern Land'
Redgum - 'I was Only Nineteen'
Cold Chisel - 'Khe Sanh'
Weddings Parties Anything - 'Scorn of the Women'

Many others...

Cheers,

Quokka


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: John Routledge
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 09:39 AM

Written by Ted Egan.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: quokka
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 09:40 AM

John - Ted Egan wrote 'The Drover's Boy' - very powerful song. Look him up, he's a very interesting guy.

Cheers,

Quokka


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Tangledwood
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 05:33 PM

"I'm wondering what songs people feel are the truly influential Australian songs? "

Could you expand a bit on what you are looking for; do you want songs that have had an influence, which implies getting frequent airplay and being well known; or songs which have a definite message e.g. political, but not necessarily well known?


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: oldhippie
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 05:50 PM

Eric Bogle's "And The Band Played Waltzing Matilda"


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: bfdk
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 06:10 PM

Redgum... oh, I love them :-)

It's a bit tricky when you merely say 'songs of influence'. What kind of influence, political or any kind?

How about Wendy Joseph's 'Year of the Drum', would that suit you?

Eric Bogle's 'Shelter'?

Please be a bit more specific, then it's easier to come up with suggestions.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 07:00 PM

"soon to be opened Museum of Democracy in Canberra"

Dominique, can you tell us something about your Museum, I can't find anything about it using Google Australia & it sounds like a place I'd love to visit when I'm in Canberra.

sandra


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Helen
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 01:02 AM

Sorry, nager, I couldn't resist. Forgive my feeble attempt at "having a go". :-)

Quokka,

I can never seem to sort out the two bands and their songs, and I was trying to remember which was which when I posted above: Goanna - 'Solid Rock' and Redgum - 'I was Only Nineteen'. Some sort of weird mental block, I know.

Helen


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Bert
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 01:16 AM

The Song of the Thrush!... Well it influenced ME anyway.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Bert
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 01:21 AM

And I've always thought of "The Miner's Dream of Home" as Australian. Is it?


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 01:42 AM

Miners dream of home, NLA digital collection

Leo Dryden, Wikipedia

req/ADD: Miner's Dream of Home

Leo Dryden wrote the music & Will Godwin wrote the words & they both seem to be British music hall folks

sandra


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Bert
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 01:54 AM

Wonderful, thanks for the links Sandra.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 08:27 AM

What Helen said. As well..

Whaling Songs of Harry Robertson

This CD can be found at the National Library, Canberra. Harry Robertson was highly influential - among other songs he wrote the Wee Pot Stove, later popularised by Nic Jones in the UK.

Contact Rob Willis through the National Library, he is still collecting Australian songs and has a huge knowledge of Australian folk music history.

Reedy River is a musical play set in the period after the 1890s shearers' strike. The play was written by Dick Diamond and performed by the Melbourne New Theatre in 1953, featuring the band the Bushwhackers and Chris Kempster (1933-2004) who had set Henry Lawson's poem 'Reedy River ' (1896) to music in 1949. It was directed by Marie Armstrong.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 08:38 AM

The original Bushwhackers with a few blokes and Barbara Lysiak started the Australian folk revival in the esongs at dances in the Blue Mountains.

Declan Affley started the group 'The Wild Colonial Boys' in Melbourne in 1969, which combined Irish and Australian music. He convinced Bob McInnes, Jim Fingleton (Canberra) and Jacko Kevans (then Sydney based) to put their lives on hold and move to Melbourne to join the band. The other band member was Irish singer Tony Lavin. 'The Wild Colonial Boys' became the standard model for many successive Aussie folk bands. Declan and band members appeared in Tony Richardson's 'Ned Kelly' film.

(When I was a teenager I used to listen to my heroes Bob McInnes playing fiddle and Jacko Kevans on concertina at bush dances at the Yarralumla Woolshed in Canberra).


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 08:51 AM

sorry, some of what I wrote went missing there. The Bushwhackers performed in the 50s, Barbara Lysiak's daughter Kate is still singing Australian bush songs in a band in the Blue Mountains.

Also check out The Ballad of 1891 and The Songs of Henry Lawson put to music by Chris Kempster.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 09:08 AM

as well, check out The great John Dengate

and here is a link to Judy Small's website


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: rich-joy
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 06:46 PM

I reckon : GURINDJI BLUES (Ted Egan) and (don't laugh) : SUN ARISE (Rolf Harris and Harry Butler) have both gotta be in there.
Likewise FROM LITTLE THINGS, BIG THINGS GROW (Kev Carmody and Paul Kelly)

That's just for starters ...


Cheers, R-J


Gurindji Blues

Poor bugger me, Gurindji
Me bin sit down this country
Long time before the Lord Vestey
Allabout land belongin' to we
Oh poor bugger me, Gurindji.
Poor bugger blackfeller; Gurindji
Long time work no wages, we,
Work for the good old Lord Vestey
Little bit flour; sugar and tea
For the Gurindji, from Lord Vestey
Oh poor bugger me.
Poor bugger me, Gurindji,
Man called Vincent Lingiari
Talk long allabout Gurindji
'Daguragu place for we,
Home for we, Gurindji:
But poor bugger blackfeller, Gurindji
Government boss him talk long we
'We'll build you house with electricity
But at Wave Hill, for can't you see
Wattie Creek belong to Lord Vestey'
Oh poor bugger me.
Poor bugger me, Gurindji
Up come Mr: Frank Hardy
ABSCHOL too and talk long we
Givit hand long Gurindji
Buildim house and plantim tree
Longa Wattie Creek for Gurindji
But poor bugger blackfeller Gurindji
Government Law him talk long we
'Can't givit land long blackfeller, see
Only spoilim Gurindji'
Oh poor bugger me.

Poor bugger me, Gurindji
Peter Nixon talk long we:
'Buy you own land, Gurindji
Buyim back from the Lord Vestey'
Oh poor bugger me, Gurindji.
Poor bugger blackfeller Gurindji
Suppose we buyim back country
What you reckon proper fee?
Might be flour, sugar and tea
From the Gurindji to Lord Vestey?
Oh poor bugger me.

Oh ngaiyu luyurr ngura-u
Sorry my country, Gurindji.

© Ted Egan


PS   see new book just out on this very issue, by Maleny artist, Peter Hudson and featuring paintings by the Aboriginal kids of the area ...


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Bill the sound
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 06:52 PM

I thought Clementine was Australian--Is it?


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: rich-joy
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 06:56 PM

.... and sorry, but no matter how you feel about it, I reckon SHADDAP YOU FACE (Joe Dolce) qualifies too! LOL!

http://members.iinet.net.au/~dwomen/files/JDWelcome.html/

Cheers, R-J


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Andrez
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 07:36 PM

It would be nice if guest Dominique made some attempt to provide more information on her project before people actually spend time responding in a more thoughtful vein..... especially when the outside temp is 43 degrees C.

Shutting the computer down and heading for the pool!

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 09:01 PM

In addition to the poems of Henry Lawson there are also the poems of Banjo Patterson which have been adapted for singing.

And here's another vote for John Warner and John Dengate

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,John Gray in Oz
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 09:39 PM

The only influence that Cold Chisel's song Khe Sanh had on Australia was an incorrect one. There was no Australian military involvement in the Khe Sanh battles / region. It was an American show from beginning to end. If there had of been Australians there it would have been a victory - rather than a defeat.

JG / FME


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Hrothgar
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 03:34 AM

Now, how many of these songs are truly influential on the general public, and how many are popular with folkies?

Ask the average person in the street about John Dengate, Judy Small, or John Warner, and they will gaze at you blankly.

Ask them about Eric Bogle or Ted Egan, and you might do just a little better.

The pop/rock singers might be better known, but how many of the songs are influential?

"Only Nineteen" could have made people aware of the plight of many Vietnam veterans, and "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda" could either make more people interested in Anzac Day, ot might be regarded as anti-war by ordinary people.

There are a few others that might strike a chord if people heard them, but they don't hear them - Bogle's "Shelter" or mTony Miles' "Enola Gay" for example.

Possibly "God Save the Queen" and "Advance Australia Fair" have more effect on people, negative or positive, than any of the songs we like to think of as important.

I love being the Devil's Advocate.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Tangledwood
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 04:09 AM

"Now, how many of these songs are truly influential on the general public, and how many are popular with folkies?"

That's why I'd like to find out the OP's terms of reference before answering.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Andrez
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 04:21 AM

Yep, I agree with the Devils Advocate and intend to go on a one person strike from this thread until Dominique returns to the fray.

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: nager
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 05:12 AM

Has anyone mentioned John Williamson with "True Blue" or Peter Allen with "I Still Call Australia Home". These are songs which the general public identify with. There are whole lists of songs in the Australian "pop" and "country music" arenas which would "influence" more people than the very small percentage of people who listen to local folk music. Not knocking our local folkies but very few people know them, as Hrothgar says above. I have tried on numerous occasions over the years to get family, friends and workmates to listen to local folk music through my Cds etc but they just don't like it one little bit when I play them. So,if you are looking for "truly influential songs" (whatever that really means) I believe you are not going to find them in the folk music arena.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Helen
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 02:07 PM

It has only been a couple of days since Dominique posted her original question. She obviously doesn't know the speed with which Mudcatters come up with info, so she may not drop back in for a few more days. A long time in Mudcat years is a short time in real life (like Rip Van Winkle).

I agree that folk music is not influential to the wider public, although it probably influences musicians like Paul Kelly who then builds on the ideas in his own work.

Helen


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 08:55 PM

Then there are the Australian songs composed under the influence!

The Pub Which Has No Beer

Where is Bob Bolton when we need him?

Cheerily,
Charley Nolbe


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 09:05 PM

the pub with no beer,was written by an irishman,from the cork, kerry borders.
its not Australian,slim dusty may have recorded it ,but it was written by an Irishman who went to live in Australia .


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 12:47 AM

Paging Bob Bolton - email sent (his home connection does not work, so he's only on line at work)

sandra


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: rich-joy
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 04:15 AM

Hi Capt'n :
According to his book "Songs from the Canefields", Dan Sheahan came from Dalwogan, Ireland to Australia, in 1905.
He fought for Australia in WW1 and marched in the Anzac Day parades until he was about 93 years of age.
He wrote many poems and his "A Pub Without Beer" was published in FNQ (Far North Queensland) in 1944.
(BTW, the Gordon Parsons' song "The Pub With No Beer" was dated 1958.)


White Australia is still a relatively young country (!), and many's the person to proudly claim two nationalities!!


Cheers! R-J


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 07:43 AM

Anything by Kevin ' Bloody ' Wilson.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Helen
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 12:29 PM

I suppose someone had to say it, Dave. And he has influence by the bucketload, no doubt about that.

Helen


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dave Hall
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 01:07 PM

I used to sing two songs from Oz. One was about a shearer called "Bluey Brink" but the other didn't really have a title but I always called it "The Chunder Song" because it was all about expressions for 'being sick!'
The first verse went:-
    "I was down on Bondi Pier drinking tubes of ice-cold beer,
    A bucketful of prawns upon me knee.
    When I swallowed the last prawn I had a technicolor yawn
    And I chundered in the old Pacific Sea.
    Ch
    Drink it up; drink it up.
    Share another dozen tubes and prawns with me.
    If you want to throw your voice
    Then you won't have any choice
    But to chunder in the old Pacific Sea!

Cheers,

Dave


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 08:10 PM

I must mention John "Jocka" Burns who sang "We meet them at the door", I believe sometimes called "Bankstown Evictions and fairly recently recorded by Alistair Hulett and Dave Swarbrick as "The Siege of Union Street" (I always feel a little confused as to the actual name of this song, and to its actual location, there have been previous threads on this subject.
Jocka also sang an interesting version of "Bubbles", also "The red flag" and "The Internationale", I think you may gather from these songs where Jocka's political connections were.
Certainly Jocka influanced Australia in the twenties and thirties when severe problems were felt mainly by workers and even the rich to some extent.
I recently saw Alistair Hulett twice, once in in Otley and the other in Adelaide where this latter function, I believe that was organised by green flag, he sang "The Internationale" at both and he certaily did it justice.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: topical tom
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 10:39 PM

I remember hearing sung a song titled "On The Road to Bandaguy"(spelling?)which contained these lines:

          There's beer to knock you sideways
          And girls to make you cry
          When you stop at "Lazy Harry's" on the road to bandaguy.

Perhaps the title was "Lazy Harry's" though I don't think so.Does anyone have more lyrics and the tune to this song?


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Reinhard
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 03:22 AM

This is The Road to Gundagai from Paterson's book Old Bush Songs. A.L. Lloyd sang it on Australian Bush Songs (1956) and Across the Western Plains (1958) and Martyn Wyndham-Read sang it with A.L. Lloyd singing chorus on The Great Australian Legend (1971). Tevor Lucas sang it as Lazy Harry's on his LP Overlander (1966).

The verses are already in the Digital Tradition database.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Andrez
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 04:03 AM

Just biding time while waiting for Guest Dominique to reappear. In the meantime its really worth getting some consensus on what we mean by the term "influential".

Lots of songs proposed are of import to individuals but would they be considered influential in a national sense? I suspect not. In fact by that criterion I'm not sure that there are really any takers at all but I'm willing to stand corrected.

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 10:25 AM

The banks are all broken they say,
And the merchants are all up a tree;
When the Big Boys are brought
To the bankruptcy court,
What chance for a squatter like me?


Relevant again but not necessarily influential.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: topical tom
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 11:23 AM

Many thanks for the lyrics and melody, Reinhard.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,John from Elsie`s band
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 11:41 AM

To Dave Hall. Dave here`s another verse to your song.

"I`ve had liquid laughs in bars.
And I`v hurled from moving cars
And I`ve chucked up where and when it pleases me.
But if I could choose the spot
To re-gurgitate my lot
Then I`d chunder in the old Pacific sea".

I`m sure it is all the work of Barry Humphries.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 02:29 PM

It might save a bit of time to explore the site of Warren Fahey, a collector of long-standing. He has songs, stories and lore in abundance.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Reinhard
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 03:26 PM

And don't forget Mark Gregory's wonderful site Australian Folk Songs whose lyrics I regularly use for comparing with e.g. A.L. Lloyd and Martyn Wyndham-Read songs.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 04:04 PM

I would Like to nominate, the dog shat in the tuckerbox 8 miles from gundegai,thereis even a statue to the dog,.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 04:06 PM

'm used to punchin' bullock teams across the hills and plains.
I've teamed outback for forty years through bleedin' hail and rain.
I've lived a lot of troubles down, without a bloomin' lie,
But I can't forget what happened just five miles from Gundagai.

'Twas getting dark, the team got bored, the axle snapped in two.
I lost me matches and me pipe, so what was I to do?
The rain it was coming on, and hungry too was I,
And me dog shat in me tucker-box five miles from Gundagai.

Some blokes I know have stacks of luck, no matter where they fall,
But there was I, Lord love a duck, no bloody luck at all.
I couldn't heat a pot of tea or keep me trousers dry,
And me dog shat in me tucker-box five miles from Gundagai.

Now, I can forgive the bleedin' team, I can forgive the rain.
I can forgive the damp and cold and go through it again.
I can forgive the rotten luck, but 'ang me till I die,
I can't forgive that bloody dog, five miles from Gundagai.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 05:18 PM

"Lots of songs proposed are of import to individuals but would they be considered influential in a national sense? I suspect not. In fact by that criterion I'm not sure that there are really any takers at all but I'm willing to stand corrected.

Cheers,

Andrez "


At our folk club yesterday somebody sang something from the "folk revival" era, mentioning it as one of the "songs that changed the world" . . . then added that it was just as relevant today.   ????


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 06:23 PM

I must diagree with you Andrez. I am sure that when John "Jocka" Burns sang "We meet them at the door" it Influance some Australians in Australia, even if it was only those that were evicting the workers in Union Street.
I am sure many of the other songs mentioned did likewise.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: cobber
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 06:38 PM

I played on a local concert on Saturday night in Taradale, a tiny country town in Central Victoris (Australia)that is trying to raise money for their local festival which in turn helps the Country Fire Authority. The town was threatened by a bushfire last week and it was only the dedication and heroism of the local fireman plus a little bit of luck, that savde the town. As you can imagine there was a good turnout and all the acts were local volunteers. There was a trio of sitar, tabla and the other onhe that looks like a sitar but isn't. At the end of their act they played a raga based on Waltzing Matilda and the whole crowd burst into song. Despite many Aussies cringeing, or pretending to, when this is brought up as being our favourite national song, you really can't get away from it. As a song, it's not fantastic but as an anthem that draws people together and allows them to share a sense of national identity it is fiercely Australian, even if the yanks own the copyright and the original tune was a thing called Craigielee, or so I'm told. Incidentally, my most embarrasing moment as a musician was playing on the back of a truck at the Melbourne Cricket Ground in the lunch break on an England - Australia one day cricket match, parked in front of the old Bay thirteen, and forgetting the words to Waltzing Matilda. That sure felt influential to me, I can tell you.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 07:01 PM

Indeed...we had a thread years ago on the song... Craigielee/Waltzing Matilda


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 09:09 PM

G'day Charley, Rich-Joy and all,

One day I'll get my internet connection to be reliable (probably by ceasing to depend on Telstra's "slack string and tin can" facilities)!

Rich-Joy gave a good summing up of The Pub Without Beer .. and it can't really be said to have been composed "under the influence" ... as it commemorates the fact that all the local pub's round Townsville were drunk dry - celebrating victory in the Coral Sea Battle. Gordon Parsons' Pub with no Beer, published 17 years later clearly draws on Paddy Sheahan's original ... but has been simplified to fit to a (simplified) version of Beautiful Dreamer - and to write in references to his friends around his own local pub.

There are a number of good songs being proposed in this thread (even if we are not sure what is needed ... if and when the fore-shadowed museum eventuates). Given my current difficulties just getting a dozen, or so, musicians from the Bush Music Club's Monday Night Music Session to agree on what influences them ... I don't think my overheated brain is ready to offer any insights!

Regard(le)s,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Joybell
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 09:41 PM

Despite being an Aussie for 64 years I'm at a loss about ideas to post here too.
Words to add to the mix of questions are
When --- Now? During the settlements of the 19th century? During early settlement?
Where -- In the outback? In the urban areas? In reginal cities? On the goldfields?
In whose opinion -- Aussies? Historians? Song collectors? People outside Australia?
About what and whom -- which I think has been covered.
The answers could be as different as -- all the Stephen Foster songs, the songs of the various workers, songs of the folk revival, and rock and roll.
By the way if you go to Warren Fahey's site be sure to take a look at Billy Barlow. Now there's an influential singer -- several of him!!
Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 01:58 AM

My son may not think he's influenced by folk music, he doesn't listen to it. But he's influenced by a generation of people influenced by it! and others of his generation are still writing, performing and listening.

Folk musicians have traditionally supported many social causes. In that way their music has been heard by people at the hub of social change. The resurgence of folk music in the 50s and 60s had a huge influence on Australians by affirming Australian identity and culture. Music and art always play a role in introducing ideas or reasserting them in different ways at different times.

Each type of music/art reaches those who are open, nothing ripples out to an empty universe.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Andrez
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 06:05 PM

Hi there "Guest". Just out of curiousity what was the name of the song that was sung at your folk club from the"folk revival era"?

Just to add to the list above, we could also usefully ask: Who? Who was influenced and what were the consequences!

Freda's note above highlights for me the fact that the tradition as a whole has influenced Australians at many levels and in many different contexts. I have no problem with that at all. Where it becomes harder to quantify is when we try to assess the impact of a particular song on society at large as opposed to just observing how it affects us personally. This is especially so if we dont have some agreement on the meaning of the term "Influential".

If the lovely "Guest Dominique" isnt willing to provide some structure for her own research question then what we are left with are a range of diverse and interesting perspectives on the topic but we are no further along the road to understanding anything about the issue of what songs were or are influential especially in the context of the alleged "Living Democracy section of the soon to be opened Museum of Democracy in Canberra". About which still nothing can be googled!
Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Tangledwood
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:29 AM

G'day Andrez, I was the guest, victim of the cookie monster.

You've embarrassed me now - I can't recall what the song was; one of Dylan's I think.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Andrez
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 06:06 AM

No worries, I didnt seek to embarass, I was just curious. I know on a personal level many of the early Dylan songs were influential on me too though that isnt always a cool thing to admit to these days in some circles. So this is just between you and me OK?

:-)

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: soulkat9
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 11:14 AM

I think Men At Work sang this song: "I come From The Land Down Under"


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Tangledwood
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 07:29 PM

" So this is just between you and me OK?"

No worries Andrez, not a whisper to anybody else. :)


But I still don't understand - if the song changed things, why is it still relevant?


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 07:50 PM

BobBolton-

And "Good-D'y!" to you as well.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Andrez
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 08:53 PM

Lots of things have "relevance" as a consequence of their impact on others. Books, film, scientific research, inventions, art of all kinds and dare I say it songs and music.

The person who started this thread was asking about songs that are/were "influential". That is a different question again and as I suggested above unless the term is defined clearly its a difficult question to discuss in any meaningful way IMO.

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 10:42 PM

G'day Charley,

Wotchya mean "Good-d'y" ... I can clearly hear me pronouncing that "a" - even if the subtler nuances don't seep through the Maine snow! (I might have to push the ... point and start using the more "up-country" style of greeting: "Day-ee!")

Oh yes ... I also need to stay home some working day - and stand over some tech type to get my home modem back talking to Telstra's dodgy copper wires (or invest in a wireless modem and networking arrangements for the three different computers that now need connecting ...)

Regard(les)s,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Rowan
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 07:34 PM

All the best, Bob.
Telstra's copper is about as useful as stairs in a tent around my place at the moment.

And I've been (until now) a silent lurker on this thread for much the same reason as Andrez (to whom "Greetings"); it's just that he said it earlier than I.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 08:33 PM

Excuse my limited involvement in the discussion which is because I wanted to hear what people have to say. The questions raised and the songs are important. It's interesting to see not only what songs are considerred influential but also how people respond to the term 'influential'. I do not have a defintion other than to say that it means more than 'songs of protest'. All the questions and responses I read here are important and the non google-able site, when it opens, is not intended to answer those questions but add to the discussion, to provoke and question the very things you are discussing.
In response to Sandra in Sydney's question. The Museum will be opening at old Parliament House in May. The exact name has not been released yet and so is not easily searchable.
By the way Andrez, I'm a bloke not a sheila.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Andrez
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 02:25 AM

Frankly I dont care about the gender of any individual who posts to this or any other thread. However I am not impressed when people post and then sit back to watch what happens although I suspect this isnt the first time its happened on Mudcat. To put it bluntly that amounts to "using" people who have some interest in the issue at hand for a posters own ends.... which of course are never spelt out up front for all to see and reflect or comment on as all good academic practice does.

Regrettably the only descriptive word I can think of that even vaguely captures some of my thoughts about this kind of game playing rhymes with the word "anchor".

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 03:12 AM

I agree with Joybell, Andrez, Bolton et alia: this is bullshit until the androgynously monikered guest defines some parameters.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 03:14 AM

Damn! My Norton clean-up once again swallowed my cookie without my noticing. My apologies, Joe.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Stewie
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 03:20 AM

I can't believe I sent that last message before logging back in, but there you go! I'll quit while I'm behind.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Tangledwood
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 05:33 PM

" . . .the non google-able site, when it opens, is not intended to answer those questions but add to the discussion, to provoke and question the very things you are discussing."

That sounds to me as if there was no real intention to gain a list of songs, more that we were to be used as part of an experiment. Not nice! Glad I didn't waste time compiling my suggested songs.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 06:17 PM

I'm surprised by an aggression that is aimed at reading what people have to say on this thread rather than 'contributing'. What people say has an influence on what I can suggest to the curators at the Museum. I would like to add that my personal interest is in contemporary traditional Aboriginal music from the northwest of Australia - eg balga, junba, wangga. You can see by the questions raised in this thread that to define what an Australian song is, is not simple, let alone what might be 'influential'. Does that mean poplular? If so then it seems that one of the most popular songs has been "I was dreaming" by Juncker which had sheet music reprints from the end of the 19th century to the 1940s. But did that song influence people and whose voice was it? I am looking at Union songs, Folk songs which include songs from Italian, Greek, Macedonian, Vietnamese, Chinese, and other nationalities, Protest songs, Country songs and Pop songs. And I am sure I have not covered every possible category here. And I admit, to date, I am none the wiser how to help define this huge area - so I am listening to see what people have to say. It has to do with people's voice and how they use song to make their voice/s heard. That is what I believe this thread may be contributing to.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Tangledwood
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 10:34 PM

It may have been more helpful to explain that in the first place, or at least once we started to question what it was that you wanted. My first question in the thread -

"Could you expand a bit on what you are looking for; do you want songs that have had an influence, which implies getting frequent airplay and being well known; or songs which have a definite message e.g. political, but not necessarily well known?" -

still hasn't been answered. All I was asking is what you mean by influence. If you don't know that yourself it makes it difficult for me to give relevant answers.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 02:54 AM

By the way I love
"nothing ripples out to an empty universe"
Thanks Freda


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 08:06 AM

I've been pondering Tangledwood's last post and the best I can do is offer an example. I was personally influenced by The Saints "Stranded". Will that be one of the songs that is meant to make us think about how people have used song to make their voice heard? Maybe. Growing up in Qld in the Bjelke years, that song has special meaning for a particular generation. Does it have meaning to anyone else? It is one of so many songs; the traditional Aboriginal songs of all the different regions of Australia, the seditious songs like Ben Hall, then as Helen wrote - songs by Paul Kelly, Kev Carmody, Archie Roach, Judy Small, and Eric Bogle, to which we can add Bob Randall, Bill Scott, Harry Robertson, John Schumann, Slim Dusty, Neil Murray, Shane Howard, Ted Egan, John Dengate, Danny Spooner, Tiddas, Margret Roadnight, Sara Storer, Midnight Oil. The list goes on.
What about "Treaty" - Youthu Yindi, and "Blackfella Whitefella" - Warumpi Band, Powderfinger's "How Far Have we Really Come" ?
Then there's Helen Palmer's Ballad of 1891, John Warner's Newell Highway? These songwriters and their songs are all important and the Living Democracy section will only ever be able to offer a taste of the wealth of Australian songs. In so doing I am trying to listen as broadly as possible to what people have to say about the matter so that the curators have a good base from which to choose wisely. Your thoughts and suggestions contribute to that understanding.

Except for traditional Aboriginal songs, which are the heart of the country, I haven't yet reached into languages other than English for songs that have meaning for those non English speaking people's who've come to settle in Australia.

One thing that I have been asked to do is to search as representatively as is possible across all aspects of Australia. That is part of what I am learning from this discussion… as well as the way it sorts out stuff like who wrote "The Pub with no Beer". We need to know that. And I'm still wondering where Bondi Pier is located? Did it ever exist except to rhyme with beer?


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 08:27 AM

Helen understood what has happened. I've been taken by surprise with this thread and have only just had a chance to read everything more carefully this evening. I only came back to look at the thread yesterday expecting to slowly join in a conversation. I was bowled over and had no idea the speed with which the thread moved. Please excuse my tardiness in this, it was certainly not meant to offend.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 08:45 AM

re "The Siege of Union Street" by Alistair Hulett, I wonder if it's about Union St Erskineville (where i used to live in the early 80s). I heard this street was called Union st because there were battles between tenants and landlords in the 30s, with the tenants forming a union.

Does anyone know if the song's about Union st Erko?

freda


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 04:01 PM

Thanks again Fred I'll follow up on that too. There's too many songs that I haven't touched upon but I woke up this morning and realized I hadn't included
Dorothy Hewett's "Weevils In The Flour".


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Allen in Oz
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 04:42 PM

" The Diamantina Drover"

'The faces in the photograph are faded
And I can't believe he looks so much like me' ...etc


AD 1943


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 05:09 PM

Freda, there's a discussion of this song and its locale in the thread, Oz Rent Strike Song from 30's, from August 2008.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Tangledwood
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 06:00 PM

Dominique, thanks for giving my post some consideration. The plot thickens doesn't it? Do individual songs influence the whole population, specific geographical areas, ethnic groups, age groups etc?

Even an individual changes - I went from listening to The Seekers in Melbourne during the late '60s to Slim Dusty when I moved to Broken Hill. He sang to me of the things I was seeing around me.
You give the example of The Saints "Stranded" significant to you but I don't even know it. I wasn't in Qld during the Bjelke years but I can get a laugh from John Dengate's "Cunnamulla".

Not familiar with all of the writers you mention but certainly agree with those that I do know. Another couple of suggestions: Christine Anu - "My Island Home" may have bought the Torres Strait area into more people's consciousness. Gurrumul has probably done the same for Arnhem Land. Would his CD be the first almost totally Aboriginal language release to get recognition thoughout the country?

John Warner's "Anderson's Coast" tells of an event from Australian history that is not well known. Cloudstreet sing a song about an event from Western Australia's past - a miner trapped below ground near Kalgoorlie is rescued with the aid of a retired deep sea diver. (not sure of the song title and it's not on a CD yet). "Green among the Gold" by Rosalind and Steve Barnes tells of the Irish migration's influence in Australian music.
These songs may not be influential but they do document interesing events.

I'll give this some more thought and see what else I can come up with. Looks as if it will be easier for you to filter the results than for me to try to guess what might fit the bill.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: rich-joy
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 06:26 PM

Ah yes, Bobby Randall - who could forget (and not be very moved by) "My Brown Skin Baby, They Take Him Away"????

BTW, George and The Wurumpis were my 85 year old Mum's favourite band, closely followed by Yothu Yindi - not bad for a Perth-bred girl .....
:~)


R-J


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 05:44 AM

thanks, Gerry.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 05:54 AM

It's official!

Media Statement - 19th February 2009

Special Minister of State, Senator John Faulkner, today announced that Old Parliament House is to become The Museum of Australian Democracy at Old Parliament House on 9 May 2009.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 08:29 AM

Yep it's MAD, it's out.
now you can google it but in the next few weeks, more info will become avaiable through the OPH website.
Thanks too Tanglewood for those thoughts. We are in the final days of making a selection and all the contributions will be taken seriously, including God Save the Queen but I'll be lobbying against that one. If you think of anything that has to be included, now's the time. When it comes down to it this is not a top 30,50.100. That is impossible. What is hoped, is to find a way that the songs represented make people think about all sorts of things including what has influenced them personally. Songs have the power to unite and to focus attention. I dearly hope they, OPH-MAD, find a way to make this conversation interactive and so develop these intial ideas by listening to the knowledges that people bring with them when visiting the Living Democracy gallery. That is certainly the aim of the curator.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 08:47 AM

okay, now we're getting serious. A group that I loved as a teenager was The Loved Ones. They influenced a whole generation with their powerful songs (Everlovin' Man etc)

Another uniquely Australian sound was The Atlantics , with their legendary Bombora and Flight of the Surf Guitar.

These two embody for me the energy, creativity and wildness of the music that influenced a generation of kids. The content of the music may not be political, but its impact was, and it is a truly Australian sound.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 08:49 AM

Try clicking on the song links and listen to a few - what a sound!


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: JennieG
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 07:17 PM

I have kept out of this thread as it all seems a bit "pie in the sky" to me. We all come from different backgrounds and places, so it follows that we will not all have been influenced by the same music as younger people, or now.

Like it or not, Dominique (or whoever you are), God Save the Queen was part of the background for many of us when growing up - but of course you don't want to know that do you! I suspect you have already made up your own mind about any music that will, or will not, be included. Anything posted by anyone here will be irrelevant to your purpose.

JennieG


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 08:02 PM

In response to JennieG - I think Stranded is influential but what I think and what goes in the exhibition are not the samme thing. I am a researcher not a curator. My job is to search as broadly as possible and speak to as many people as possible about what 'songs of influence' might be. There are people, quite rightly, who think that to limit that to 'Australian' songs, however that may be defined, is not in the spirit of the museum's focus - which is democracy.
It is because it is about democracy that I would not be advocating a song that seemingly celebrates the opposite political spectrum. Perhaps I am wrong. I am a researcher and my job is to present the material as I find it. Of course I have my own persoanal bias, which I am happy to admit, but if you think 'God Save the Queen' has to be there then the curator will hear that. This thread is part of the reseasrch and the Living Democracy section is about people's voice and how they express that.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,political and influential
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 08:17 PM

In response to Freda's last post:
This is the ongoing discussion I have with the curator
"The content of the music may not be political, but its impact was, and it is a truly Australian sound". Living Democracy is interested in the voice of the people and that is my research task.
As we are talking about people's voices the boundaries has been narrowly set so that the song must include words - but that still leaves the problem between what is influential and what is political. Are they the same thing? Earlier I mentioned "I was only Dreaming" which doesn't seem political from the lyric content, perhaps it was(?). I don't know if it will be included as influential because of it's enduring popularity. On the other hand, do the overtly political songs of, for example, Midnight Oil endure and are they as influential as songs by The Loved Ones or Helen Palmer's 'Ballad of 1891' that have endured?


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 08:50 PM

please excuse my previous typos

re Freda's   The Atlantics
When I was a kid growing up at Mena Creek, near Innisfail, at our local primary school it was not cool if you couldn't tap out the drum beat to Wipeout - faster than the original. Not as easy at it sounds, unless you're a drummer. Influenced me but no words to that except for "Wipeout" so that one won't be included in this selection.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Joybell
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 12:35 AM

I'm afraid I'm still confused. Probably it's me. I read the official statement and all too.
Anyway I'm wondering if this collection is to draw on the studies of song and folklore collectors both current and past? Rob Willis, for example, studies a wide range of songs, from many cultures, that are sung/were sung here in Australia. Rob's recordings contain interviews where singers give their thoughts about the songs they sing. Surely here is an ideal place to start.
But then we're not talking start are we?
Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 12:53 AM

Thanks Joy,
I haven't yet had a chance to talk with Rob Willis personally. I have listened to some of his fantastic collection in the NLA. John Meredith's collection too is important in fact all the oral histories where people sing and discuss songs are relevant. The Chris Kempster conversation is great - and much of this is online.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 09:22 AM

Today I was introduced to "Smiley" by Ronnie Burns which I didn't know of. Two songs that I think will be included are Tiddas's "Anthem" and Helen Reddy's "I am Woman".
"God Save the Queen" won't be there for the same reason "The Miner's Dream of Home" "The red flag" and "The Internationale" won't be there. They were not written by an Australian. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The following is a quick compilation of the songs and composers mentioned so far not including those I've mentioned. I have not included repeats. I don't know if this helps provoke big gaps where you feel something glaringly obvious has to be mentioned. There is no question that the few songs that will be part of the exhibition can offer anything more than a glimpse into the heart of influential Australian songs. However I hope that glimpse offers treasures that encourage people to listen further and think further.


The Loved Ones "Everlovin' Man"
The Atlantics - Bombora and Flight of the Surf Guitar
Bobby Randall "My Brown Skin Baby"
John Dengate's "Cunnamulla".
John Warner's "Anderson's Coast"
"My Island Home" Neil Murray
"The Diamantina Drover"
"The Pub with no Beer"
Men At Work "I come From The Land Down Under"
the dog shat in the tuckerbox
The Chunder Song
Billy Barlow
Waltzing Matilda
John "Jocka" Burns "We meet them at the door" also called "Bankstown Evictions" and recorded by Alistair Hulett and Dave Swarbrick as "The Siege of Union Street"
Jocka Burns "Bubbles" ( Is that Australian?)
Kevin ' Bloody ' Wilson (anything by him)
John Williamson "True Blue"
Peter Allen "I Still Call Australia Home"
Judy Small ("Mothers Daughters Wives"?)
John Schuman - 'I was Only Nineteen'
Eric Bogle "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda" and "Shelter"
Tony Miles' "Enola Gay"
"Advance Australia Fair"
SHADDAP YOU FACE (Joe Dolce)
GURINDJI BLUES (Ted Egan)
SUN ARISE (Rolf Harris and Harry Butler)
FROM LITTLE THINGS, BIG THINGS GROW (Kev Carmody and Paul Kelly)
Helen Palmer "The Ballad of 1891"
Reedy River music by Chris Kempster
Whaling Songs of Harry Robertson - Queensland Whalers?
Goanna - 'Solid Rock'
Wendy Joseph's 'Year of the Drum'
Ted Egan 'The Drover's Boy'
Midnight Oil - 'Beds Are Burning'
Goanna - 'Solid Rock'
Paul Kelly ( virtually everything he wrote ?)
Kev Carmody (ditto - "Cannot buy my soul"?)
Icehouse - 'Great Southern Land'
Cold Chisel - 'Khe Sanh' (disputed as a misrepresentation)
Weddings Parties Anything - 'Scorn of the Women'
My Bonnie Lies Over the ocean


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 09:32 AM

Sorry "My Bonnie Lies Over the ocean" lies in the same boat as "God Save the Queen"...
and I've been meaning to attribute properly
"Weevils In The Flour" a poem written by Dorothy Hewett and put to music by Mike Leyden


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 10:27 AM

John "Jocka" Burns "We meet them at the door" also called "Bankstown Evictions" and recorded by Alistair Hulett and Dave Swarbrick as "The Siege of Union Street"

??

Alistair wrote "The Siege of Union Street" & I'll post the words on a separate thread.

"We met them at the Door" aka The Bansktown evictions recited by Jocka in ABC Hindsight documentary - Forever striking trouble


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 10:56 AM

The Siege of Union Street


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 12:12 PM

John "Jocka" Burns "We meet them at the door" also called "Bankstown Evictions" and recorded by Alistair Hulett and Dave Swarbrick as "The Siege of Union Street"
The song by Jocka Burns was sung arround the time of the Sydney Street evictions is a different song to Alistairs version and preceeded it by decades. There is a previous thread which I will try to locate for you


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 12:31 PM

Hi Sandra,

Here is the title of the previous thread, sorry I do not know how to convert this to a link, maybe someone else can help.

Oz Rent Strike Song from 30's
posted 2nd August 2008


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 05:43 PM

Thank you both for clarifying that.
I couldn't find the thread Oz Rebt Strike Song from 30s by doing a Mudcat search
Dennis I don't know if it's new or has always been there but just below the box where you reply there is an underlined phrase in blue that says "Make a link ("blue clicky")" which does the html code for you and then you cut and paste it in.

and I see you've already explored Jeff Mack's
I've Been Everywhere


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 06:03 PM

We Met Them At The Door
Makes me wonder about the songs against Patricks I know this is an ongoing struggle but there will be at least one song of united defiance in the limited collection. This is far flung and would not be instead of such a selection -
Do you reckon ACDC's "Jailbreak" has anything akin to this spirit of defiance?
"All in the name of Liberty"
Probably more like Ned Kelly

I think it was a Young Ones skit where two convicts talking to each other on the docks in Southhampton or wherever they departed in transport for Australia and one says to the other "Yeah and just for stealing a loaf of bread!" and the other after a pause matteroffactly says "Yeah and for all them murders you done."


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 06:12 PM

Another song I would be plugging, though again it is not up to me, is
Bill Scott's "Hey Rain" also called "The Innisfail Song"
and I admit I am not impartial here. I did grow up in that part of the country and had the fortune to listen to Bill tell his stories. I remember in particular one about a giant mosquito that picked up a horse.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 06:14 PM

Hey Rain


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 08:22 PM

using google to search Mudcat when Mudcat search doesn't find answer format - "word or phrase" site:url, excluding www or http://

3rd result in Google site search - Oz Rent Strike Song from 30's

Google site search is an alternative search method posted by someone back in the days when Mudcat searching had problems (which it can still have, see assorted Tech threads.)

sandra


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Joybell
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 08:50 PM

Dominique, You need to add "in Australia" to the title "Billy Barlow". Australia most certainly can't lay claim to any of the songs just called "Billy Barlow".
Cheers, Joy
(author of "Hey Ho Raggedy-O - a Study of the Billy Barlow Phenomenon".


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Joybell
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 09:09 PM

Many of the songs by Don Henderson (1937-1991) need consideration, in my opinion. Many were well-known and frequently sung during the 60s, 70s, 80s. The National Library has details.
There's also Mike O'Rouke - from the Atherton Tableland.

Reading the list of songs to be included leaves me wondering if I've been somewhere else for 64 years. There are so few I've heard let alone been influenced by. That's not to say they aren't worthy songs. Guess I still don't understand the criteria.
Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 09:49 PM

Thanks Sandra
Sorry Joy we are working it out as we go. This is new and there is no one answer but we will attempt to make it as interesting and representative as is possible. It is from the advice of people who care about what is included that we can best make our choices. As I've said the songs chosen are meant to make people think about the richness and diversity of people's voices in Australia and not to pretend it's a best of, or top 20, or some specific goal oriented achievement. Hopefully it will be open to discussion and change. There is certainly an emphasis on the diversity of voices that make Australian songs. The idea started off as "Protest Songs" but after some discussion with the curator we shifted to "Songs of Influence".

I had some help yesterday from within the walls of OPH defining three broad categories as:
1 Songs of protest and complaint
2 Songs of struggle
3 Songs of Democratic achievement

I think there are more ways to sub-categorise it and you have already offered quite a number.
I have to express my ignorance of Mike O'Rouke. I'll check him out.

With Don Henderson, I offered "Thirty Ton Line". Any other suggestions?


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 10:07 PM

I get a rap over the knuckles because I polarise the situation with demcracy the way I see it. This is not an official stance by any means. I believe that while we are a constitutional monarchy we are not a democracy. Other people have no trouble in seeing that we can coexist both as a monarchy and a democracy. I guess the English are good at that. I hear that. I don't agree, and that is my point of view.
In either case the Living Democracy section of MoAD (Museum of Australian Democracy) is concerned with active democratic processes, with the people's voice and the way that voice is expressed. That is the context in which these songs will be placed. I realise if I'd said that earlier perhaps the terms of reference for "Australian Songs of Influence" would have directed this thread differently. Though I clearly feel what that means you are helping define in words what it means.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 10:26 PM

Found Mike O'Rouke thanks and the whole world of country comes brimming over.
I'm yet to run into a Lee Kernaghan suggestion but I know he's a legend. Then there's Sara Storer and Troy Cassar-Daley just to touch the tip of an iceberg. The Pigrams from Broome, Kerrianne Cox and little known giant of the nuanced country ballad Peter Brandy.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Rowan
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 10:30 PM

"It's on" was one of Don Henderson's widely sung songs.
"Poison Train" is one of Mike O'Rourke's better known songs.

I wasn't aware that Alistair Hulett was Australian. Come to think of it, I suspect several of the authors now regarded as Australian may have written the songs we now regard as Australian before they became naturalised. And we haven't yet got into definitions about songs written before Federation. Thank goodness for Matthew Flinders!

Some of which may put "God save the King/Queen" in a different light. Various wearers of various uniforms might argue that the anthem was quite important to their understanding (and efforts to preserve) democracy as they understood it and was, therefore, "influential". In my own case, I was so bored by its main melody (played every Monday morning) that I started singing along to the part played by the Eb cornet in the cadets' band; this was most influential on teaching me part singing, which I have used democratically and to further democracy.

But I too am only a researcher, although I am also a curator.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Joybell
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 11:15 PM

The three categories make a world of difference.
Under these headings I'd be for starting all over. Many of the suggested songs will not fit under these headings.
So these songs do not need to be well known then? And they need to have been written here?
OK for starters:
1. From Don Henderson -- "The Plastic Song". Early comment about an environmental problem. Rowan's mentioned the other one that come's to mind.
2. The 19th century miners' songs -- possibly all of them except "I'm Going Back to Bendigo" which is about how it's fun to be a miner.
3. All the convict songs that were written here. (a note of caution -- many of them weren't)

Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: rich-joy
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 11:20 PM

Domminique, I thought to clarify regarding some of my choices, made in above posts :

Rolf Harris & Harry Butler (the naturalist)'s "Sun Arise" (as you can see from posts in the threads on Mudcat, like : thread.cfm?threadid=50015) made an impression on many people – and not just in Australia. A number of international versions of this song have also been recorded, and it pioneered the use of the Didj sound, so popular these days (never mind that they had to simulate it on the original recording!!)
The song made a great impression on my Mum and me, via it being played on ABC Radio in the 60s.

Likewise when, some years later, ABC Radio started playing Ted Egan's "Gurindji Blues", we were very drawn to both the music and the story being told. A story that is so important in Australia's history (both white and black); a story that continues to produce songs and books (e.g. Paul Kelly & Kev Carmody's "From Little Things, Big Things Grow", and Peter Hudson's new publication.)

Before these songs, Aboriginal Australia wasn't much represented beyond Jimmy Little's cover of Burl Ives' song "Royal Telephone" and Lionel Rose's "I Thank You" and perhaps Harold Blair (classical singer) - and it stayed that way for quite some time!!


I didn't mention another song from during the 60s (when I was a teenager), that affected me :
Lionel Long (yeah, I know!), singing Leon Gellert's poem "Anzac Cove". I found this so sad. I guess even more so, as WWI had robbed me of a Grandfather. I vowed that one day I would visit this sad and desolate place. I almost got the chance in 1977, but my travelling partner became very ill and so, it never happened. (Nowadays, I have absolutely no desire to go and to be surrounded by jingoistic, flag-draped teens shouting "Aussie Aussie Aussie : Oi! Oi! Oi!" ..… sigh ..… )

Others that deserve a place in the pantheon, too :
Geoff Mack's "I've Been Everywhere", sung by Lucky Starr, has spawned a squillion version around the world – highly influential!
Redgum's "I Was Only 19"
Archie Roach's "Took the Children Away"
Hmmmm .... and perhaps the repercussions of The BeeGees' song "Spicks and Specks" are still being felt!!

The theme music to various TV dramas … "You Can't See Round Corners" / "Wildside" / "Rush" / "Aunty Jack", spring to mind ….
….. and as has been mentioned, tunes like "Bombora" that influenced others, plus the style of The Easybeats ("Sorry" and Friday on My Mind", for example), and a number of other groups besides …..

"The Streets of Forbes" and "The Death of Ben Hall" always moved me, as did the previously mentioned "Weevils in the Flour aka Island in the River" (Hewitt/Leyden)


But that's enough from me for now!
Cheers, R-J


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Joybell
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 11:28 PM

Mike O'Rouke's "TI Woman" doesn't fit the criteria strictly speaking, but it deserves a look.
Alan Musgrove has a song about his grandfather called, "Just Another Dusted Miner". Al has collected many songs worth considering too.
"The Banks of the Murray" is a gentle parlour song about WW1. It's certainly a protest song in its way. Nobody knows who wrote it but it was probably an Australian.

This could be huge.
Joy


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 12:22 AM

That made me laugh Rowan and I'm glad that the term is now making some sense.
I was never trying to be obtuse though unfortunately it does come naturally.
I have to take a break. Joy and R-J thanks.
Oh yes Geoff not Jeff Mack
I'll be back soon.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 07:23 AM

Children's Songs? Now I have never been into "up there cazaly" or "Our Don" but it seems to me there must be some humdinger sporting odes that ought to get a look in seeing as we are a "sporting nation".
How political have any of these songs been? Are the two aforementioned more significant than I think?
They don't strike me as having the impact that Walzing Matilda does?
On the other hand if only Bombora had words! Maybe "wipeout" says it all.

"It's on" is great and I haven't yet been able to find "Plastic" by Don Henderson.
I've heard "Picket Line" and "Thirty Ton Line" from Mark Gregory's great collection "With these Arms".
Is "Plastic" released anywhere? Have the Qld Folk Federation managed to get that Don Henderson Project album up?


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 07:44 AM

interview with John Dengate

The Riderless Horse - Australians songs of WW1

interesting references

Margaret Bradford

the history of the solidarity choir


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 07:49 AM

Sonia Bennet is another songwriter, who worked with the poet Denis Kevans.

Paul Spencer is a brilliant young songwriter who addresses social themes, I can't speak highly enough of his creativity and insight.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 07:56 AM

This site of Australian Union songs has more than 640 songs and poems, over 260 Authors, representing songs written 200 years ago to the present.

(will this MAD place be big enough Domenique.. what have you started?)


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: rich-joy
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 11:10 PM

The Dec 2008 APRAP magazine, has an article about "The Wild One (Real Wild Child)" - an Oz-written hit in 1958, for Johnny O'Keefe, that keeps surfacing over the years : many artists worldwide have recorded it and 22 major films have used it, plus TV shows and ads ....


Cheers, R-J


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 11:39 PM

Feels like I've been locked out. I can't submit. Must be something to do with the size of the cache or my mac. I'll try again.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 11:40 PM

For the last day I have had trouble submitting a message. Anyway...
Thanks for all those suggestions Freda and yes "The Wild One". This is where I am unsure of the difference between popular and influential because no one would deny the popularity of that song. Was JOK the voice of a generation? In that case this song is infuential but also are there other considerations like songs that were not so popular right alongside which have also endured and still hold sway? I don't have to make the final call on that but those are the questions we're asking.

Choirs, the united voice, are incredibly important and I'm not exactly sure how they will be represented as yet at OPH, they're working on it.
My question then becomes is there any institution in Australia concerned with the celebration of Australian songs in their diversity or is everything categorised into specific 'halls of fame'?


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 11:43 PM

Oh it cut me off and I lost the rest. Sorry.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 12:00 AM

The point being that it is clear from this discussion that we are lacking something that brings together
the work of Mark Gregory and Peter Parkhill and the NLA sound archives and Music Australia and NFSA
and the various sites dedicated to people like Don Henderson
but then also the collections of public songs from the Traditional Owners of Australia through Strehlow and Von Brandenstein,
Moyle, Elkin, and more recently Dunbar Hall, Marett, Corn, Treloyn, Barwick just to mention a few.
Then there are the living traditions of traditional music by the Traditional Owners. Where is this celebrated?
OPH will scratch the surface of this in the Living Democracy section but the Museum is not dedicated to this sole purpose.
It will be a place to stop and listen, a moment of pause and reflection for those who are interested in a glimpse at some songs that have influenced Australians.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 12:12 AM

That story about John Greenan in APRAP changes my understanding of "The Wild One".


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 02:22 AM

Yeah! Paul Spencer's A Word for Freedom


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 08:29 AM

"I feel that a writer's social conscience should extend to caring about the quality of the culture he is contributing to.
This might sound a bit lofty, but I say it in the belief that every thought held and expressed in words contributes something to the overall culture of a society.
It can contribute positively or negatively in that it can add or detract from that culture. One way or the other, it will do something.
Just how much it contributes in either direction depends on how much it is pushed and how closely that personally expressed thought is related to the generally held ideas of the society.
A song should be allowed to grow within the close environment of its creator, from which it will either emerge or be submerged, depending on the validity of its statement and the value it has as a song."
Don Henderson 1968


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Rowan
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 04:34 PM

If you're looking for archival music of original Australians you could go to AIATSIS and check out collections made by Prof. Ellis, although I'm not sure how influential (on democracy) her collections have been.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 04:53 PM

Thanks Rowan. I spend a bit of time in the AIATSIS library and on MURA the online catalogue
and know the work of Ellis who I should have mentioned along with Stephen Wild.
On youtube there is a 70s GTK clip of Odetta in Australia being asked about folk and pop differentiation.
She was so eloquent in saying that the categories of music are not important and that folk is about the people and can embrase all categories of popular music.
Wasn't there a Folk Museum to have been opened in Canberra, at one stage? What happened to that?


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Rowan
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 10:30 PM

Assuming you're in Canberra, another suggestion has just made its way into my tiny brain. WHy not add to your collection of suggestions by setting yourself up at the National, over Easter? I'm sure you'd be well received.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 25 Feb 09 - 03:35 AM

Yeah Rowan! It's a good idea. Have to see what the curator says now you've suggested it. The idea is out there.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 25 Feb 09 - 06:12 PM

I was just re-reading and laughing reading Nager's statement:

"I have tried on numerous occasions over the years to get family, friends and workmates to listen to local folk music through my Cds etc but they just don't like it one little bit when I play them."

MAD will face the same dilemma. How can people be turned on? Drugs I think are the optimum solution but I don't advocat that.
I mean the job of the museum is to turn people on but can anyone really be enlightened or do we like what we know and know what we like?
Except in those rare moments when we're ready for change.

The right song at the right time might do that.

That's what I mean by influential. Not just something we have had ground on us, not something we have ingrained because of a catchy tune but that moment when we see things differently.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 25 Feb 09 - 06:19 PM

Oh yes and the "we" is very personal.
I don't assume that anyone is talking about homogenising the diversity of people in their various cultures, religions and ages.
"WE" as in the unwholely notion of a people who believe that "we" should live together "democratically".

So the 'we' can mean many different things.

These are my thinkings and not representative of OPH.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: nager
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 12:04 AM

I haven't been into this since the early posts but someone drew my attention to a comment by Dominique (above) laughing about what I said earlier - and still stand by. Songs of Influence? Maybe one per cent of the population might find something in what has been suggested above.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 12:42 AM

maybe the Australian Songs of Flatulence thread will solve the problem


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Andrez
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 07:10 AM

>The right song at the right time. So this was what you meant by the term "influential" ?

I think that in the context of the new Museum of Aust Democracy this kind of definition means, to coin a phrase, "bugger all".

Given that the museum is meant to give people pause to reflect of the "D" word and what that might mean in the Australian song context the link above to the other thread seems to me to be frivolous and demeaning to the issue at hand.

It seems to me that Guest D doesnt really have much a of sense himself of what those might be and is still not making an attempt to really reflect on the issues that he himself has raised.

That aside I was thinking about Nagers post immediately above that of Guest D's. I agree about the 1% idea. What is interesting is that if you look at it from that point of view, a song like God Save the Queen suddenly becomes particularly influential. By that I mean I am thinking about all those diggers in the 1st & 2nd World Wars and maybe more recent ones who were willing to go and fight and die on HRH's behalf. Their deaths and the actions of the survivors of those campaigns on their return from war shaped our democracy today (whether you agree with whether it is any good or not). Now thats influential. Most if not all folk songs as well as pop songs belong in the 1% realm by those standards.

Cheers,

Andrez

PS: I should say that I dont particularly care for God Save.... as a piece of writing let alone as a song. But there is no denying it has been influential in the Australian context.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 08:35 AM

Are people not allowed to laugh in the face of adversity?

And in response to "So this was what you meant by the term "influential" ?" the answer to the question is No.

MAD is putting together a small collection of songs to make people think about how people use their voices to be heard.
Those songs will represent a number of different groups, epochs, themes, and issues.
They all go under the heading of 'Influential' and 'Australian' but as is clear from this thread, what that actually means is not easy to define.
The reason I asked the question was because it appeared that Mudcat would be an excellent place to open such a discussion on this issue.
The Living Democracy section, of which this conversation is a now a part, is attempting to listen to as many people as is possible.
I am still surprised and delighted at how fast the response has been and at the many considered and insightful opinions in the thread.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: nager
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 04:13 PM

Yes, all one per cent of them....Can't imagine many people being interested in actually visiting this place can you? Who is paying for it by the way?


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 04:39 PM

Already OPH is one of three institutions which includes the War Memorial and the National Museum
where if school groups attend all three when they visit Canberra then they get a subsidy towards their excursion.
Tens of thousands of school kids already pass through the doors each year.
Many people visit OPH because of it's political history.
The Museum of Australian Democracy is being paid for by a one off grant,
from our national revenue and was a Howard Govt. initiative.
It now comes under the authority of the Prime Minister's Dept.
Once again I write a disclaimer saying that I am not writing this on behalf of OPH but on my own behalf.
I am a part time researcher employed by OPH and my interest in this research carries me beyond my limited work hours.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 07:30 AM

Could spend years reading the threads on Mudcat.
This one seems worth adding to this thread:

Geoffrey Gurrumul Yunupingu


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 08:36 AM

Political songs on Aboriginal rights


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dana Sutrton
Date: 03 Apr 09 - 01:25 AM

The song quoted by Dave Hall is by Barry Humphreys, I think it was written for the film "The Adventures of Barry MacKenizee," circa 1973 or 1974. It is usually quoted in a short form, without the final verse. Here's the whole thing.

I was down on Bondi Pier drinking tubes of ice-cold beer,
A bucketful of prawns upon me knee.
When I swallowed the last prawn I had a technicolor yawn
And I chundered in the old Pacific Sea.
CHORUS
Drink it up (chugalug chugalug), drink it up (chugalug chugalug)
Have another dozen tubes or so with me.
If you want to throw your voice,
Mate, you have no other choice
Than to chunder in the old Pacific Sea!

I was sitting in the surf with a mate of mine named Murph
Who asked to crack a tube or so with me.
But the bastard barely swallowed it when he went for the big spit
And chundered in the old Pacific sea. (Chorus)

I've had liquid laughs in bars and I've hurled from moving cars
And I'll chuckle when and where it pleases me,
But if I could pick the spot to regurgitate me lot
I would chunder in the old Pacific sea. (Chorus)

There are many ways that you can have a ball when you are pukin',
And the secret of it's in variety.
Oh, you can hurl a tiger from the summit of the Eiger
Or chunder in the old Pacific sea. (Chorus)

L'Envoi

Don't kneel there all alone by the big white telephone
When you can chunder in the old Pacific sea.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,george macca
Date: 04 Apr 09 - 12:39 AM

what about 'WE ARE ONE,WE ARE MANY''...which will become our national anthem AND 'I STILL CALL AUSTRALIA HOME 'which almost is our national anthem AND 'THE ROAD TO GUNDAGAI'


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Bill S from Adelaide
Date: 04 Apr 09 - 05:50 AM

I agree with some comments above that many great folksongs and their composers are unknown outside their own field. Another issue in Oz is that the vast majority of songs heard at folk clubs are written by the performers, few songs pass beyond their authors. For songs of influence go to Australian Country Music, John Williamson (Rip Rip Woodchip, Dying koalas), Slim Dusty, His Excellency Ted (Drovers Boy) the Governor of the NT, tune into Macca on Sunday morning. There are songs that are heard by millions. Many of them should be classed as folk singers but call themselves country because it pays more.
Any comments from Macca listeners (Australia All Over ABC Sunday 5-10 am, available short wave and online)
BS from BS from Melb


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Andrez
Date: 06 Apr 09 - 07:04 PM

Hi Bill, well with todays modern media lots of songs "are heard by millions". Thats fair enough but are they influential? That was the topic of this thread. Apart from the fact that there is little understanding or agreement by what is meant by the term "influential" in the discussion above.

I have a feeling that perhaps the songs that actually are influential (in a national sense) are basically very few in number and perhaps not even that good in terms of their prose or tunes and perhaps not even of "folk" origin.

That is separate and distinct from songs that may have been influential to people on a personal level. That difference allows for a much broader range of song material as many of the suggestions in the posts above seem to suggest. In that context anything goes as long as it was significant for you in some way, even Macca.

Re Macca, at the end of the day when I next go to the museum I'd like to see Macca get the same treatment meted out to Phar Lap. Before that time I'd like to see Macca be put out either to stud or just to pasture...... but thats a whole 'nuther thread isnt it?

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Rowan
Date: 07 Apr 09 - 01:21 AM

When Macnamara put out the first CD of songs made popular on his program he used the original performers; the CD was so popular that many of them paid off mortgages on the basis of royalties. I think he did the same for the second CD.

When the third CD was compiled, he took notice of how lucrative the royalties were and decided to rerecord the songs with himself as the performer. For the items that had a recognised author, the authorship royalties were paid to that person; all others went to Macnamara, leaving the performers who'd made the songs popular enough for him to use "out in the cold" unless they happened to be authors of the items.

"
Legal"? Certainly. "Ethical"? I suppose it depends on your views on ethics.
I've never bothered with him since and don't reckon he was worth an AO.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 11:41 PM

The selection of songs in Living Democracy at the Australian Museum of Democracy is part of a section which will is called "Agents of Change". As people in this thread have made clear "Songs of Influence" is very broad. A small number of songs selected will hopefully make people ask the same questions that this thread has generated. What makes people think about who and where they live? Do we share anything in common as a nation of people or are we regionally so disparate that the only thing we share in common is our elected representatives, like it or lump it? Do songs make a difference?
The Museum officially opens on the 9th May with certain parts of the Museum such as Living Democracy opening later in the year. Hopefully next year we might look forward to seeing a "Living Democracy" presence at the National Folk Festival.
Have your say about the Australian Museum of Democracy


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Nikkiwi
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 04:04 AM

re: god save the queen/king - firstly, I agree wholeheartedly with andrez comments about its relevance and influence to those that fought and died for their country in wars that could have been considered "not their problem"

secondly if you are exploring the shift away from monarchy towards democracy using music, what better starting point is there?


just my 2c


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 10:08 AM

As I re-visit the words to Advance Australia Fair I admit that I really don't like that song. I never learnt it at school so I rarely think about it. I don't even like Sculthorpe's arrangement though I admire him. The final verses are crawling with empire and make me squirm however... that song will be one of the 'thirty' songs that represent 'agents of change'. God Save the Queen wont. It does not have meaning as an 'agent of change'. I realise it was an influential song for many immigrants to this country and... it is time to take truthful account of our colonial occupation of Australia, own up to that bloody history and recognise who we are and where we're going. The voice of Australian people was never represented by the British.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Andrez
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 08:58 PM

This is getting tedious! Dominique, you wont define "influential" as requested god knows how many posts ago so I really dont expect you to define "agents of change" whatever that post-modern jargon means either! As such you dont provide anyone reading this (bordering on tripe) thread with any kind of yard stick to evaluate your fairly idiosyncratic frame of reference. So either make some kind of real effort to elaborate for the rest of us poor "plebs" or just drop this onanistic thread as it is going nowhere fast.

Re AAF, it is a recent (in historical terms) piece of work. As such it has limited impact on Australian traditions. GS the Queen has had an impact regardless of whether you like it or not. I cant stand either but that doesnt take away from the INFLUENCE it has had in terms of Australians and Australians. Which was what you originally claimed you were talking about.

As far as immigrants to this country we all are other than our Indigenous people. By your definition NOTHING that is a product of immigrant culture can then be legitimately included in your list of songs.

Regardless of any personal views, regardless of the facts of "colonial occupation" , the immigrant (non indigenous tradition) has been significantly influenced by British traditions and cultural traditions. It is still part of the totality of the Australian historical narrative. What part of that dont you get?

My year 10 daughter does a better job at analysis than you do in the work presented above. Unless of course you are really a year 8 student with too much time on your hands!

This debate (sic!) is one of the sloppiest pieces of analysis I have seen in a long time. I rate it at an F so far.

Get real!

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 12:17 AM

Sorry = we i did 'My Bonnie' in English primary school and my mum sang me to sleep with it.    There fore it cannot be Australian.

I think Eric Bogle's Poor Bugger Charlie is a pretty good song and another one that I can't remember the title of where he talks about 'the gentle people they dispossessed lie sleeping' - meaning
Aborigines displaced by Brits.....maybe called The DreamTime Land


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 03:05 AM

Eric Bogle's "And the Band Played Walzing Matilda" will be one of the songs. I would like to reiterate that the thoughts I have contributed on this thread are my own and do not represent the views of anyone else. I have read what others have said on Mudcat and much of what has been written on this thread has contributed to the way the Living Democracy songs have been selected. In the end this thread is full of people's opinions and others can take them or leave them.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dominique
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 08:15 PM

I have no idea what happened to the rest of this thread. For me it ends here in April 2009 when there was at least another two months of thread. To provide some kind of conclusion to my involvement I offer the following.
In no way does what I say represent an official position as I have well and truly finished my work at the Museum of Australian Democracy. There are too many wonderful Australian songs to think of defining a hit parade and my role in the project was simply as researcher. I did not make the final choice. Thank you for your help and generosity in being involved in this first selection which hopefully is not an end in itself but the beginning of a developing dialogue about the power and beauty of Australian songs.
You may notice there are twenty nine songs because one internationally famous Australian band declined to be included in the selection. These are the songs:

Archer, Robyn    Menstruation Blues
Blue King Brown    Come and Check Your Head
Bogle, Eric    And The Band Played Waltzing Matilda
Carmody, Kev    Cannot Buy My Soul
Cox, Kerrianne    Beagle Bay Dreaming
De Bortoli, Lucia    [trad] Mama Mia Don me Cento Lire
Hewett, Dorothy and Mike Leyden    Weevils In The Flour
Hicks, Peter and Geoff Francis    One day in October
Hunter, Ruby    Down City Streets
Luscombe, Jack    [trad] Sam Griffiths
Mazella, Kavisha    Love and Justice
McCormick, Peter Dodds    Advance Australia Fair
Midnight Oil    US Forces
Mills Sisters    Waltzing Matilda (Wadjimbat Matilda)
O'Loughlin, Tim and Angie McGowan    No dams
Palmer, Helen and Doreen Bridges    Ballad of 1891
Randall, Bob    My Brown Skin Baby
Reddy, Helen and Ray Burton    I am Woman
Slim Dusty    When the Rain Tumbles Down in July
Sloan, Sally    Ben Hall
Small, Judy    Mothers Daughters Wives
Storer, Sara    Land Cries Out
The Herd    The King is Dead
The Saints    Stranded
Warner, Dan & Dastey, Sally    Anthem
Warumpi Band    Blackfella Whitefella
Wiggan, Roy    Bardi Ilma
Wright, Lola and Ruth Shepherd    The Equal Pay Song
Youthu Yindi    Treaty

You can hear these songs in the Living Democracy gallery at the Museum of Australian Democracy, Canberra.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Liora
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 09:04 PM

Would anyone be able to post the words to John Dengate's poem/song It's a Long Way To Cunnamulla? I've been trying to find them for years and can't.


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Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 12 Dec 13 - 07:31 AM

posted on Liora's other thread Lyr Req: It's a Long Way to Cunnamulla - John Dengate by Tony in Darwin


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