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Alcohol - PC correct songs

GUEST,Terry 30 Jan 09 - 05:39 AM
Flash Company 30 Jan 09 - 05:58 AM
Marje 30 Jan 09 - 06:37 AM
Sleepy Rosie 30 Jan 09 - 06:51 AM
Musket 30 Jan 09 - 06:52 AM
Nigel Parsons 30 Jan 09 - 08:52 AM
TheSnail 30 Jan 09 - 09:27 AM
curmudgeon 30 Jan 09 - 09:43 AM
greg stephens 30 Jan 09 - 09:57 AM
Midchuck 30 Jan 09 - 10:32 AM
GUEST,Jonny Sunshine 30 Jan 09 - 11:05 AM
Bryn Pugh 30 Jan 09 - 11:18 AM
SINSULL 30 Jan 09 - 11:24 AM
Musket 30 Jan 09 - 11:24 AM
Charley Noble 30 Jan 09 - 09:06 PM
Gurney 30 Jan 09 - 09:52 PM
VirginiaTam 31 Jan 09 - 02:07 AM
Weasel 31 Jan 09 - 03:42 AM
rich-joy 31 Jan 09 - 05:22 AM
Cllr 31 Jan 09 - 07:19 AM
Cllr 31 Jan 09 - 07:24 AM
Bryn Pugh 03 Feb 09 - 06:07 AM
GUEST,Mr Red 03 Feb 09 - 06:20 AM
Fidjit 03 Feb 09 - 08:55 AM
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Subject: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: GUEST,Terry
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 05:39 AM

See -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/4389736/What-Shall-We-Do-With-A-Drunken-Sailor-lyrics-changed-to-remove-alcohol-references.html - For the new PC version of that well known shanty 'What shall we do with a GRUMPY PIRATE'
Beware it will soon be illegal to hold folk clubs in pubs and singers will be prosecuted for performing under the influence of drink.
The Copper Song Book will be the next victim with all reference to Ale struck out to be replaced with Orange Juice - try and make that scan.
Terry


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: Flash Company
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 05:58 AM

Same story in The Mail. I will see if I can work up a few verses on 'What shall we do with the PC Council'

FC


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: Marje
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 06:37 AM

I'm surprised they've left the chorus untouched. Has no one told them that "Hooray and up she rises" is a reference to effect of alcohol on the male physiology ("Brewer's Droop")? As it stands (so to speak) the song can be seen as a warning about the dangers of the demon drink, and doesn't glorify drinking in the way that many songs do.

It may have escaped the attention of the censors that parents do already adapt this song - "What shall we do with the grumpy baby?" is a popular variant, to which members of the family like to improvise verses.

Marje


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 06:51 AM

What's daft about this, is that Piracy involving such fun kids stuff as robbery and murder, was a bloody nasty violent business (despite Johnny Dep). And murdering people by drowning them off the end of a plank, ain't so sweet and light either...

Kinda puts 'drunken sailors' in a less socially disturbing light when compared to the "safe for children" PC version. What a bunch of numbnuts!


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: Musket
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 06:52 AM

Luckily, the story runs in The Daily Mail.

Therefore, it is physically impossible for it to be true...

I suppose folk songs go the same way as cigarette advertising. If it can be shown to be heritage rather than commercial, it is ok. Hence Edwardian cigarette adverts on metal sheets can still be put up as decorations in pubs

Presumably, traditional songs fall into the same category, if the PC brigade have a go?

(When I look at some of the comedy songs I used to sing over the years, such as The Vicar & the Frog, you wonder what you could be accused of promoting!!)


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 08:52 AM

But the write-up gives the excuse that it was changed to tie in with a 'pirate theme'.
Replacing 'drunken' with 'grumpy' should have been unnecessary, the scansion and emphasis remains the same.

Sounds to me like someone who's been caught out trying to invent a plausible excuse for their political correctness!


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: TheSnail
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 09:27 AM

I've heard that there is a song taught in primary schools that goes -

Do your ears hang low?
Can you swing 'em to and fro?

I'd love to be there when, as teenagers, those children find out the real words.


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: curmudgeon
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 09:43 AM

"Hooray and up she rises" is a reference to effect of alcohol on the male physiology..."

Sorry Marje, just isn't true; just another bit of urban folklore conjured up by an idiot. Surely no sailor, or any other self respecting male would refer to his "John Thomas" by way of a feminine pronoun.

This thread puts me in mind of a piece Pete Seeger wrote many years ago in Sing Out! concerning another shanty in a school book whose title and theme had been emasculated to "Smiling Johnny."

A curse on all bowdlerisers - Tom


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 09:57 AM

The most interesting thing in the original article was the statement that "What shall we do with the drunken sailor" was written in 1891. When you consider the endless arguments on the origins of folksongs that occur here and elsewhere, how reassuring to have an incontrovertible fact. It must be true, it was in the Telegraph.


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: Midchuck
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 10:32 AM

I've heard that there is a song taught in primary schools that goes -

Do your ears hang low?
Can you swing 'em to and fro?

I'd love to be there when, as teenagers, those children find out the real words.


About 45 years ago, I, following my second year at college, had a job as a counselor at a boys' camp. The camp leader started the kids singing that song with those words, and I lost it and broke up - almost got fired.

Peter


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 11:05 AM

I take all these stories with a big pinch of salt. Someone's written some new words for an old song. Big deal, it happens all the time. Kids do it, nurseries and playgroups throughout the land sing countless variations of well-known songs. One of the few examples of a genuinely popular living tradition in our society, I'd say.

The article in question sounds more like a piece of opportunism from the "Campaign For Real Education" whose agenda no doubt appeals to the kind of papers that thrive on headlines such as "Hospital Bans Hot Cross Buns Because They Offend Muslims", "Loony Council Bans Christmas" and "School Bans The Word 'School'"

I totally agree by the way, that there's nothing PC about pirates.


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 11:18 AM

Orange juice, orange juice, glorious orange juice !

Served in small glasses. it's no fucking use.

Some folks like radishes, some curly kale

But give I boiled parsnips and a gurt dish of taters

And a lump of kosher bacon and the excuse

For a pint of orange juice !

Hamish Imlach will spin in his grave.

We will be allowed to leave in the bit about Cod Liver Oil - good for the brain, innit.


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 11:24 AM

Hey Jig-a-jig
Kiss a little pig

nearly brought Micca and John Roberts to their knees with laughter. A Getaway moment.


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: Musket
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 11:24 AM

When Jones ginger beer was new, me boys!
Rhyme and meter didn't have a clue..


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 09:06 PM

Oh dear!

Well. sometimes we used to sing alternative words to "Frigging in the Rigging" in mixed company, but we found them just as hilarious. We knew what the real words were and we waited patiently for one of our group to blurt out the real words.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble, with fuck'll else to do


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: Gurney
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 09:52 PM

Bryn and Ian, I've half a mind to develop your 'suggestions' and sing them at the next festival!

Mind you, some say half a mind is an exaggeration.


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 02:07 AM

Oh god the Daily Tail and the Meleegraph AGAIN!

Le sigh.

Don't pay them any mind.


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: Weasel
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 03:42 AM

Daily Mail - more fun than the Dandy!


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: rich-joy
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 05:22 AM

My first thought, when I saw this thread title about yet more Poxy PC Pontifications, was the Rolf Harris gem, the chorus of which runs :

"Well, I never gargled. I never gambled. I never smoked at all.
Until I met my two good amigos, Nick Teen and Al K. Hall."

The lyrics are in this thread :
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=435&messages=12

LOL!

Cheers! R-J


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: Cllr
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 07:19 AM

i saw this on the bbc and started a thread hopefully someone will combine the two. As previously mentioned Captain Jack Sparrow would have said "But why is the rum gone?"

Cllr


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: Cllr
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 07:24 AM

can we expect a song such about Be3Al2(SiO3)

"Bring us a Beryll"

maybe not...

Cllr


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 06:07 AM

And they called for their pints of milk and cordial (blackberry)
To help them over the hills, not merry (bis)
When Adam's ale was new, me boys -
(Omnes, pianissimo) When Adam's ale was new.

Let back and sides go clothed, go clothed,
Let hands and feet go warm.
But belly, God send thee lemonade enough
That'll do the body no harm.


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 06:20 AM

call me "one track mind" but shanties are all about double triple and if you can find it quadruple entendre.

"Hooray and up she rises" Hmmmmmmmm - is it a halyard raising reference? Apparently doubtful, but good enough for the PC Police. Is it a brewers droop? Not that obvious to me. Is it a phallic reference? Well strap me barnicles, I would never have thought that sailors devoid of female company for long periods would turn their minds to sex. So it must be all about financial investments - they can go up or down though.

I've said it many times - more than one meaning is not only intended, it is almost universal in shanties. The only question is do we, in the 21st century, have the references to tease out all the implications?
Cetainly in my songs double entendre can be intended and accidental, but a quadruple entendre in one rolling line, is carefully crafted.


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Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs
From: Fidjit
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 08:55 AM

Hmmm.

Reminds me of Pat Boone and his,

"Hiding French Letters in the Sand"

Chas


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