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BBC Folk Awards 2009

Folkiedave 02 Feb 09 - 06:58 PM
Big Al Whittle 02 Feb 09 - 07:04 PM
Folkiedave 02 Feb 09 - 07:09 PM
Desert Dancer 02 Feb 09 - 09:09 PM
GUEST,F01KIE 03 Feb 09 - 03:31 AM
GUEST,Tom Bliss 03 Feb 09 - 04:17 AM
GUEST,TB 03 Feb 09 - 04:18 AM
The Borchester Echo 03 Feb 09 - 04:44 AM
Spleen Cringe 03 Feb 09 - 04:54 AM
Folkiedave 03 Feb 09 - 05:26 AM
GUEST,John from Kemsing 03 Feb 09 - 05:33 AM
evansakes 03 Feb 09 - 05:42 AM
GUEST,Tom Bliss 03 Feb 09 - 05:45 AM
steve_harris 03 Feb 09 - 06:21 AM
GUEST,Ian Anderson, fRoots 03 Feb 09 - 06:55 AM
Faye Roche 03 Feb 09 - 07:08 AM
evansakes 03 Feb 09 - 07:31 AM
SunrayFC 03 Feb 09 - 07:34 AM
GUEST,Tom Bliss 03 Feb 09 - 07:54 AM
LesB 03 Feb 09 - 07:58 AM
LesB 03 Feb 09 - 08:01 AM
peregrina 03 Feb 09 - 08:12 AM
Big Al Whittle 03 Feb 09 - 08:41 AM
Folkiedave 03 Feb 09 - 10:31 AM
GUEST,Graham Bradshaw 03 Feb 09 - 10:35 AM
greg stephens 03 Feb 09 - 11:28 AM
peregrina 03 Feb 09 - 11:39 AM
GUEST,DoubleDare 03 Feb 09 - 01:06 PM
Folkiedave 03 Feb 09 - 04:05 PM
Spleen Cringe 03 Feb 09 - 04:21 PM
GUEST 03 Feb 09 - 06:06 PM
Betsy 03 Feb 09 - 07:39 PM
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Subject: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 06:58 PM

The results are here.

Comments later when I have had a chance to take a good look......


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:04 PM

congratulations to everybody


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:09 PM

goes without saying.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 09:09 PM

I don't get it. BBC awards, uniformly awarded to Brits, until you get to the "Lifetime Achievement" awards (to James Taylor and Judy Collins). What's that about??

I understand, when you read the About the Awards nothing is mentioned about the "artists" and "industry" and "folk music" being British (or, forgive me, BritshIsles-ish), but it seems that generally, in practice, it is, except for the Lifetime Achievement, and a very few other exceptions.

Peculiar, if you ask me. If the "folk" that qualifies is really that broad, the other award results are awfully biased...

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: GUEST,F01KIE
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 03:31 AM

It would be foolish to take ALL forms of Folk Music into account when awarding Awards in a UK Context. My particular interest is the Folk Music of Bulgaria, but the artists are not known widely in the UK, so I would not expect them to be considered. Similarly, in the UK, US forms such as Country, and Bluegrass are popular with their own followers, but are not widely played in a UK Folk context. To put it simply, the Awards are aimed at the British Folk Industry, with a slight but particular bias towards English music. The fact that Chris Wood, who is a lovely performer, would not be consiidered for an Award in the US context is no criticism, it is a fact and none the worse for that.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:17 AM

I think you'll find that it's like this:

The awards are voted for by 150 people with an interest in 'folk' who live in Britain (most of them in England), rather than being aimed at anything, or biased towards anything.

The panel vote for people they know about, and who they think are good.

The lifetime achievement awards are not voted, but allocated by the producers, who have a slightly different agenda, preferring to recognise really big names that are well known outside the folk world.

Full marks to all the winners - specially Tom, Jackie and Damo, and well done to all the nominees too.

Tom


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: GUEST,TB
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:18 AM

sorry I should have added

"preferring to recognise really big names that are well known outside the folk world - and on the whole US artists have a much wider profile than UK ones, so they tend to crop up more often."


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:44 AM

specially Tom, Jackie and Damo

. . . AND Chris.

Yes, particularly to Jackie (at last), scooping two, the day after her fab gig at Walthamstow.
Just wondered what's happened to the Good Tradition award. Not in keeping with current R2 / Smoothops ethos?


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:54 AM

Yup - well done Jackie. "Lark in the Morning" is an absolute cracker.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 05:26 AM

The "big" names are there to impress people who come to the awards from the music industry, sponsors, BBC suits etc. and know nothing about folk music.

Tom McConville/Jackie Oates and in fact all the others thoroughly deserves their awards - but they aren't exactly household names.

So they have people there that guests from outside the folk industry can applaud without saying - "Who?".


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 05:33 AM

Is there a list of nominations for "Folk Club of the Year"? I would be interested to know the clubs who were considered but not selected for the award.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: evansakes
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 05:42 AM

Becky said "I don't get it. BBC awards, uniformly awarded to Brits, until you get to the "Lifetime Achievement" awards (to James Taylor and Judy Collins). What's that about??"

Weird. I wake up on Feb 3rd....is it Groundhog Day....AGAIN? :-)


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 05:45 AM

The club awards is voted by a (very?) small panel of artists. (I'm not on it by the way). There are no nominations, it's a one stage process.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: steve_harris
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 06:21 AM

Peculiar, if you ask me. If the "folk" that qualifies is really that broad, the other award results are awfully biased...

You might prefer the Sidmouth Esplanade Gridlock Awards

Bands self-nominate for this competition by busking on the sea front at Sidmouth Folk Week.
The winner is the one that attracts most passers by to stop and listen resulting in gridlock

It works best if the bands don't even realise the award exists. The audience don't know either. They have just been drawn in by the music. They don't even know the name of the artiste(s) The great and the good are elsewhere.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: GUEST,Ian Anderson, fRoots
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 06:55 AM

We've recently added a reader's photos board onto the fRoots Forum, and since the BBC one (like Mudcat) doesn't allow the public to post snaps, anybody who grabbed some interesting/ amusing/ scandalous (within reason) ones at last night's cor-what-a-blizzard Awards bash is welcome to come in and share them and supplement the BBC's own official gallery. There are full instructions as to how to do that in one of the early postings on the new board. I just started a thread with a couple of inconsequential ones here - over to you.

We encourage people to do this sort of thing through the festival season and other folk events too.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: Faye Roche
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 07:08 AM

Without wishing to denigrate any of the winners and nominees, is there any point to these awards?

I have never in my life bought a CD, book, DVD, or gone to a concert, film or theatre production because it, or anyone associated with it has won an award. I use my own judgement and form my own opinions. Surely we all do around here? We're not discussing the pop charts, "Britain's Got Talent" or "The X-Factor"; don't people who listen to folk music have rather more individuality about them than just to follow the herd and listen to what everyone else is listening to?

Amongst the winners and nominees there are some that I like, some that I don't care for, some to whom I'm indifferent and a few that I don't know. I haven't changed my mind about any of them just because they've won.

There are many good artists who have never, to my knowledge, won an award but deserve to. Does anyone else feel like that? The whole judgement business is so subjective that I don't see how it can reflect the tastes of most people who listen to folk music.

Apart from all this, isn't it very predictable who's going to win? We know that Eliza Carthy's album will win, regardless of whether it's good or bad. We know that Lau are going to win because they're flavour of the month at present (that's not an insult, I quite like them.)

It must feel gratifying to win an award, but the artists who have won are already fairly well advanced along their career paths- is a bit of extra limelight going to make any difference to them?


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: evansakes
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 07:31 AM

"We know that Eliza Carthy's album will win, regardless of whether it's good or bad"

It didn't though...as for Lau I suspect they won best band because (in the opinion of anyone who's seen them) they probably ARE the best band,


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: SunrayFC
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 07:34 AM

Well I guess it's nice to be nominated in such things- at least it is some recognition.
I am baffled why Phil Beer didn't win. That is a major surprise. I have to say "well done to Tom" A lovely man, with lovely music.
And I would like to see more clubs at least nominated. It's tough enough these days.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 07:54 AM

The industry wheels need oil to turn, and the awards are a major supply. They give a focus to the year, provide a good networking opportunity for folksters, and help persuade Important Suits to put more folk on BBC Radio and TV. It's not the winning, it's the taking part. Awards are subjective by definition and this is not a problem as long as they're reasonable fair, reasonably transparent and reasonably well run. This is probably the best year yet - so I cry Huzzah and Top Hole. Tom


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: LesB
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 07:58 AM

"as for Lau I suspect they won best band because (in the opinion of anyone who's seen them) they probably ARE the best band, "
I've seem them & I thought they were very clever, but totally self indulgent, I can live without hearing another 10min instrumental. So you see, one mans meat etc.
And as for the BBC awards being predominately British, There's a clue in the BBC bit (British Broadcasting Corperation).
Cheers
Les


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: LesB
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 08:01 AM

Just had a look, 3 cheers for The Demon Barbers. Also congrats to Tom McConville (about time)
Cheers
Les


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: peregrina
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 08:12 AM

Ditto: Yay for the Demon Barbers, Tom McConville, and the Folk Club of the Year 2009, the Black Swan!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 08:41 AM

What irks me is the way that half the time folk is this rarefied artform, and gross characters like myself are not allowed to consider the music we create as folk music.

Now all of a sudden theres a 'folk industry'.


How long before they join the TUC?......the Allied Ballad Makers and Bodhran Beaters

Composite 1954! I move!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 10:31 AM

And the other half of the time?

Who told you to stop considering the music you create as "folk"?
Come on Al, name names.

Anything but a union for Bodhran beaters. They are bad enough as it is. If they get rights we'll never hear the end of it.

And then there's the problem of foreigh Bodhran Beaters, if they start flooding into the country who knows?

British Bodhran Beaters for British Bodhrans should be the slogan. (If we MUST have bodhrans that is).


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: GUEST,Graham Bradshaw
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 10:35 AM

Great to see Tom Mc get an award, and the Demon Barbers.
In fact, it was quite refreshing to see that the Usual Suspects, such as the Waterson:Carthy clan and the Rusbys and Bellowhead (as worthy as all of them are), not getting a look in this year.

However, the cynic in me suspects that it was more to do with "It's not their turn this year" and "We need to find somebody different".

Somebody asked what was the relevance....

Well, there seems to have been a huge amount of coverage on both radio and TV this year. The Awards keep getting mentioned on daytime Radio 2. Even the lovely Sally Traffic was bemoaning the fact that she couldn't get there because of the snow, and what a great occasion it was.

People are talking about it in glowing terms, and not in the usual snidy piss-taking way that the media usually refers to folk.

I detect a real sea-change in attitudes. Also, in the PRS magazine, which did a New year roundup and interviewed a lot of movers and shakers in the Music Industry, it was surprtising to see how many of them cited 'folk' as the Next Big Thing!

Now, those of us who have been around long enough to have seen this all before, will know that this can be a double-edged sword.
But, you either want the Media to recognise the 'folk' part of the industry and to take it seriously, or you don't, and prefer to wallow in our normal obscurity.

You can't have it both ways.

Graham


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: greg stephens
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 11:28 AM

It all seems to have gone well, and thrown up some surpringly pleasing results(Barbers and McConville). The only curiousity, caused by the bizarre rules, is the Andy Partridge award for "Best Original Song". Presumably this category of award was conceived as something to recognise the contemporary song-writers working in what is called the "folk field" or whatever. So it is slightly anomalous to give it to a song written twenty years ago in a different field. It got the award because Jim Moray recorded it this year, and he is a folkie. But I don't really think the award, as it is generally perceived, is reckoned to include "any song covered by a modern folkie". Lots of folkies cover rock songs, classical songs,show songs, whatever. Does that really make the songs eligible for winning Best Original Song in the BBC Folk Awards? Can we look forward to Bach, Cole Porter and Buddy Holly winning? Personally, I would like to see this award being for contemporary folkie song writers.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: peregrina
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 11:39 AM

Yes-it seems like an award for a 'cover', which is fair enough, but it doesn't really recognize folk *song*writing. When has the track that won this award been the sort that will end up entering the tradition? Or been one that has done so?


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: GUEST,DoubleDare
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 01:06 PM

There seems to be a certain amount of 'turn-taking' with the awards. If you look at the nominee lists, some acts can't win that year because they have won too often recently, and so it's another's turn, or z is still a bit too green even though has emerged out of nowhere with a very good album. Even if the panel isn't conscious of thinking like this & the voters really do think that x for once is better than y or z could do with developing a bit more. Vague feeling that the pool of talent is a bit on the small side, hence the cycling of the same old names. But I have absolutely no problem with the concept of posh shindigs for folkies - why not; most of us get them through work, even if it's only a Christmas party, & very nice they are too.


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:05 PM

There are always anomalies and as for "turn-taking" - well there aren't a huge number of people to enter anyway.

A couple of years ago the complaints were "It's always Waterson Carthy or Eliza Carthy or it's Spiers and Boden or Kate Rusby".

Well this year it isn't. Tom McConville is a great perfomer and thoroughly deserves his award. I can't think of anyone who would disagree with his award and likewise the one to the Barbers.

Greg is right about the Andy Partridge song - but at least it didn't win the "Best Traditional Track" so we are moving forward!!


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:21 PM

Yeah, with Greg and Dave. I'd have given the prize to "Love on a Farmboy's Wages" ...


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2008
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 06:06 PM


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Subject: RE: BBC Folk Awards 2009
From: Betsy
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 07:39 PM

Well said WLD - LOVE IT .


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