BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009-2020

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Rowan
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 07:04 PM

Thanks, pdq; I don't have to do the conversion all that often these days and the old cortex was a bit crowded.

A couple of days back goatfell asked in the northern terrortyevery day the burn off scrub so that house and land wouldn't catch fire so why doesn't the rest of Australia do that

Further to Joybell's response I'd like to add the following.

Over much of the Top End of the Northern Territory, the climate is tropical (with seriously wet Wet Seasons and seriously dry Dry Seasons and the dominant vegetation is Savannah Woodland or Savannah Grassland. The trees are rarely much more than 30' high and their canopies rarely have a density of more than 30%; there isn't much of an understory. For most of the last 40,000 years they have been "managed" by a pattern of patchwork-burning.

In the SE highlands of Australia and certainly around Kinglake the dominant vegetation is Dry Sclerophyll Forest and here the canopies are at least 30 metres high and with a density of 30-70%; routinely they are 50m tall and emergents may be taller. The Wet Sclerophyll Forest around Marysville has much the same parameters but is routinely 70m high with emergents frequently exceeding 80m; there is a fairly dense understory in both types.

The Top End Savannahs might, in any one hectare, have experienced a fire of mild intensity (a few kilowatts per metre of flame front) only every three to five years or so; there's not enough fuel to sustain frequent fires of high intensity. The DSFs have a pre-contact fire history of once in every 150 years or so and the WSFs have a pre-contact fire history of once in every 250 years or so. In both cases, a higher frequency changes the vegetation so that more frequent fires are likely to occur. Low intensity fires (of the sort used as fuel reduction burns elsewhere actually kill the standing timber but leave it in place so that regeneration is impaired.

There is no reliable evidence that Aborigines routinely practised burning in Dry Sclerophyll Forests of SE Oz and a fair amount of evidence that they never practised it in WSFs. Frequent controlled burning is just as destructive to these forests as these wildfires

On the occasions that these forests dry out enough and are exposed to high or extreme fire danger, their structure is such that a ground fire can get up through the understory and into the canopy to cause a high intensity crown fire. Intensities of multi megawatts and gigawatts per linear metre of flame front are produced and spotting (bits of branch, bark etc up to a metre long and burning) can carry the conflagration many kilometres ahead of the flame front. Such spotting leapt into Jannali (a suburb of Sydney) 7km across the harbour in the '94 fires and 10km across Lake Jindabyne in the 2003 fires of the Australian Alps.

Perhaps I've said enough.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: pdq
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 07:08 PM

A few years back, a particularly bad California fire season was followed by heavy rains and flooding. Johnny Carson said: "Good news. The mudslides have put out all the wildfires".

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Rowan
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 07:33 PM

After the 2004 fires in Victoria this was also a problem, not so much from mudslides but from the fact that the vegetation that had slowed the water down before it got into the creeks and storages was now absent. The water quality from catchments that have experienced a high-intensity wildfire takes almost a generation to recover its "original" status.

The catchments around Kinglake and Marysville are Melbourne's major water supply. It was in the rather protected catchment of Wallaby Creek (not far from Kinglake) that my thesis supervisor, the late Dave Ashton, did most of his research that made him the Mountain Ash ( Eucalyptus regnans, the dominant species in Wet Sclerophyl Forests and, at a measured 366', the tallest tree ever; even now the remnants are the tallest angiosperms) guru. One of my treasured memories is his request for me to climb into the canopy to install a pulley system so he could measure temperatures at various levels in the canopy. Abseiling down while the sun was setting, I was above the 60' high understory and all I could see around me was salmon-coloured trunks.

Magic! And all now incinerated, I suspect.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 08:03 PM

Rowan we've been moving in the same circles without actualy meeting. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and your sadness.
Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: pdq
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 08:07 PM

My father was raised in the redwood forests of California...


"In 1991, the Dyerville Giant, as it is known, was thought to be the tallest tree in the world, topping out at 369.2 feet. And then, in a blustery March storm, it blew over, taking four other redwoods with it like toppling dominoes. The crash was so deafening that people in Weott, the nearest town, thought a freight train had derailed. It caused the needle to jump on a seismograph 10 miles away.

"When it went down," said Stockton, "it was like losing a member of the family." These days he rushes out after every big storm to reassure himself that the park's other giants are still standing.

{parts edited out}

An ultrasecret giant

"The silence here is almost deafening," said Stockton as he led Hartley and me over, around and under a jumble of fallen redwoods near Bull Creek. He was taking us to the ultrasecret location of what until two years ago had been thought to be the world's tallest tree - a 370.5-foot behemoth known as the Stratosphere Giant."


The Stratosphere Giant is the tallest measured, but there are a few others recently dicovered that are (at least) as high. Official measurments were pending at the time of this article.

Will you settle for "tallest angiosperm?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Rowan
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 08:33 PM

Sure, pdq. The 366' was the length of the felled log and they didn't count the kerf or the stump and, anyway, it was the 19th century, when whole forests in Victoria were cleared to make way for dairy farming. My grandfather's farm (in South Gippsland, not far from the current fires) was mixed-species eucalypt forest of the sort wetter than Kinglake but drier than Marysville and it was all cut down to clear the area for grass! They didn't even use the timber for construction; they just burned it!

My grandfather's kitchen had a huge photo (a copy of one in the book "Land of the lyrebird"; 3 chapters from my G-g grandfather) showing a group of 30 blokes at arms length to girdle the base of one of these giants. In the late 30s my father and grandfather cut down the last giant you could drive a horse and buggy through; it had been struck by lightning and was unsafe, apparently.

It was my concern about such wanton disregard that led me generally to become a conservationist and, specifically, to become a plant ecologist and do my research on bushfire ecology. At Lake Mountain, not far from Marysville, they set aside a half acre of the tallest remnants of the Mountain Ash specimens and logged everything outside that half acre, not realising that the consequent exposure to wind would immediately remove the top 100' of the standing trees. That's why Dave did his research on the vegetation at Wallaby Creek; being in a catchment that was then protected from logging the whole plant community was still at almost the same height as the ones over at Lake Mountain.

I just hope your redwoods are never exposed to the stuff that our Mountain Ash have had to deal with.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Leadfingers
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 09:18 PM

Words Fail Me !

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 09:24 PM

The grasslands were destroyed here in Victoria along with the forests. Re-placed with introduced pasture. Oh dear!

Further to the news about the Marysville Folkies -- Mary and Frank were away from home and they've lost everything except their little dog who was saved by a neighbour. Dave and Di managed to save their home.
Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 09:28 PM

latest count - 107 dead count is for recovered bodies - more will be found as police & others search the burnt areas. Local morgues are full & forensic teams from other states are in Victoria along with interstate firefighters and the army.

I've met Lyn - she spends most of her year in a small van travelling around to festivals - her computer, printer & sewing machine all have their places in the van, along with her instruments. Her machine embroideries of 3D native flowers featured in a display at the Botanical Gardens in Canberra a few years back.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Janie
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 09:50 PM

The death toll is astounding already. That many deaths from wildfires are virtually unheard of here in the USA. I think the ecology is so different that the nature of the fires are much different there than what we know here in North America, even in southern California where there are many introduced species from Australia. I guess the heat and the extended drought, combined with trees and shrubs that are ultra-flamable, even explosive, are the difference. Do you think that is the case Rowan? Joybell?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Rowan
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 09:53 PM

Here is a piccie of Lynne and some of her embroideries.

It sounds as though her Aeola was still in the bus and is now incinerated.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: quokka
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 09:55 PM

My thoughts are with all you guys over East. Here in Perth we are expecting a week of +35 C temps, starting today, and very strong easterly winds. I live only a few metres away from bushland, so the fear of bushfires reaching us is always there. Sending good thoughts to you all.

Quokka

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Peace
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 09:56 PM

Best wishes to all of you who are even NEAR the fire area. Keep safe.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 10:41 PM

Janie -- Rowan is able to give a better answer, I think -- he's the ecologist. My knowledge comes from people like him and from a lifetime of observations of the natural world.

Thank you for that link Rowan. Seeing her face I realize Lynne and I have spent time together in the same singing circles over the years. Sometimes we've met in camp-ground showers. When things have settled down a bit I'll find out if there's anything we can help with for her as well as Frank and Mary.

Quokka my thoughts to you too. Stay safe.
Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Rowan
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 10:42 PM

Janie,
Many Oz native plants have evolved to cope with fires; some by avoidance and some by other mechanisms. Many eucalypts, for example, will be completely defoliated by a fire but, unless the fire's intensity was excessive for that species it may still survive. Removal of apical meristems (the buds at the extreme tips) stops flow of auxins that prevent other buds lower down from stirring into action. "Mallee" eucalypts have a lignotuber underground at the base of the stem and defoliation causes the meristems buried in the lignotuber to sprout multiple stems. Such coppicing leads to multistemming and the classic mallee shape. Stringybarks have a more-or-less insulating bark and defoliation causes epicormic meristems buried in the trunk and branches to sprout what appears to be a green fur the full height of the tree.

Manna gums and mountain ash have neither of these attributes. They rely on total destruction of all organic matter above ground level, leaving an ash layer that is full of nutrients for the seedbank stored in the soil (often carried there by ants); their seedlings specialise in growing higher and faster than everything else and shading out the competition, Manna gums even accelarate the crowning of a fire by shedding long strips of bark that catch and hang in the branches. These carry flames from the understory into the eucalypt crowns and are major components of the burning bits that form "ember attack" and major spotting of fires.

On top of this, many eucalypts have considerable quantities of eucalyptus oil in the leaves and bark. At elevated temperatures these can evaporate into the atmosphere. The Blue Mountains are so called because the blue haze enveloping them usually has a fair mount of oil in the atmosphere, dispersing the sunlight. Even though the weekend temperature at my place was only about 30 C the atmosphere was heavy with eucalyptus oil; a good bit of exposed flame would have been disastrous, which is why SE Oz has a system of Declared Fire Seasons and signage scattered across the landscape.

If you ever visit SE Oz, at rural intersections you'll frequently see large signs that display the current FIRE DANGER INDEX at the top of a semicircle, usually with a horizontal sign along the base that says "No Fires Without a Permit" or even "TOTAL FIRE BAN".

Most travellers don't realise that the settings are calculated, usually using a circular slide rule that takes into account the local Drought Index (currently off the scale in most of SE Oz), the number of days since the last rain and its amount (I don't know the relevant numbers for Victoria but the former would be large and the latter nonexistent), the current Relative Humidity (in recent days this would be so low as to be off the scale), temperature and windspeed. These meters are named after Alan MacArthur, who fought tooth and nail in the 60s to get firefighting authorities to lose their English attitudes to the Oz environment and replace them with others more appropriate to the Oz landscape.

I keep mine handy at home so I can't say that its calculation of the FDI would be off the scale but the highest rating is "Extreme" and, over Saturday in Victoria, that would have been an extravagant understatement. On the back is a set of tables to calculate (from the amount of fuel present) the flame heights, rate of spread and the spotting distance. The tables would have been seriously inadequate.

I hope this is helpful.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 01:10 AM

My daughter just called. Both daughters and families are now back home and safe. Looks like their homes will be safe too.
For those of us woried about the Healsville Santuary with its native animals -- there's been an evacuation of animals to Melbourne. Don't know how or if they managed to collect them all -- some birds come and go there -- but the staff and voluteers have done a great job. Can't imagine how it was accomplished.
Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 01:22 AM

126 confirmed deaths - 4 hours ago

video & audio

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: JennieG
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 01:23 AM

Apparently the Healesville animals considered most endangered in normal circumstances (Leadbeatter's possum was one, I read) were evacuated to Melbourne. It is heartbreaking, just so sad. People have rallied around to help and the things most needed now are money, and blood donors. Money so folk can go to the closest shops and buy something to wear; most of them left with just the clothes they were wearing at the time. Blood donors because many burns victims will need transfusions so supplies from all states will be used. The blood bank decided years ago that my blood was needed more by me than by anyone else, so I will be donating money.

Like Sandra I went to Lynne's exhibition in Canberra a couple of years ago and was amazed by her talent. I sew....Lynne is an artist with a sewing machine.

The plants that make such 'good' conditions are fires are also what make Australia unique. We wouldn't be the same places without them.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 01:42 AM

My spelling's off. Sorry.
Thanks, Jennie. That makes sense although gives us reason to worry about all the other animals and birds at Healsville.
A report just in states that Marysville and Yarram have been designated "crime scenes". Seems that arson is likely.
Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: freda underhill
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 03:42 AM

A dry gum tree is basically a potential firebomb - the eucalyptus oil in the sap and leaves is highly flammable.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: freda underhill
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 07:01 AM

The death rate continues to rise. Now there is a debate here about climate change, and the drought and extraordinary extreme heat that has contributed to this disaster.

freda

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 08:12 AM

Some people who spent the night on a football field in Marysville spoke to the press. They were not as safe as I thought. They spent the night dodging flames as the winds changed.

Some towns are closed to returning residents until bodies can be removed from the streets. Scenes of burnt out car crashes give an insight into the panic.

A nightmare.

Glad you and yours are safe, Joybell.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 08:38 AM

The red gum is the predominant naturalized Eucalyptus in southern California, and the source of most of the drama in the fires of recent years. I've seen the ferocity of it (but we love those trees so much) in what seemed to be a huge, cataclysmic event. However, I think you must be dealing with it on a far greater scope - I'm looking for fire maps now.

(I read you have the military working on it - We had a huge bureacratic snafu, with plenty of Navy helicopters available, but lacking legal authority to interfere with civilian matters. I think they've straightened that out.)

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 08:58 AM

What will happen to the arsonists if these fires are determined to be intentionally started and the criminals are convicted?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 03:11 PM

This is so incredibly sad. I had to quit reading it for a bit as I couldn't stop crying. Such terrible losses. I am glad you are all safe and your friends and families.

It seems everytime we had a horrible fire in WY or CO, there would be firefighters from OZ lending a hand. I hope some of our firefighters are there for you all, now.

Thanks givings for rain and a stop to all fires continuing form Colorado.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 03:11 PM

25 years jail, Rapaire. The crime is regarded as murder if deaths are the result of the fire.
We've gone way beyond looking at simple causes like the inflamability of some of the Australian bush.
The ABC interview last night with a couple of scientists, with decades of study behind them both, left no doubt that they believe climate change has at the very least loaded the dice. They also said that they don't believe natural fluctuation can explain the conditions we saw on Saturday. As well as the whole of Australia, they have both been looking beyond this country -- at extreme weather and the changes related to it.
It was very sobering. I hope we continue to listen to experts like this.
I'm concerned that we'll get mired in opinions from everybody regardless of their knowledge of the subject and/or their invested interests.
Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 03:40 PM

NPR ran a story as a prelude to a 2 part series. According to a number of experts we are past the point of no return and by 2046 we will be seeing cataclysmic events as a direct result of climate changes which will lead to world wide famine, riots, food shortages etc. that will change the balance of power and cause world wide panic.

Anyone born after 1984 will see the results of our inept handling of Mother Nature in their lifetime.

Maybe the crazies living on subsistence farms with a year's supply of food and water as well as a few rifles have got it right after all.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 03:41 PM

Thank you Kat and everyone. Kat, we've been the same. Sometimes the simple things, like the student offering to share his clothes, sets me off.
I have a little Ringtail Possum that was found unconscious during the heat wave leading up to the fires. He reminds me of the thousands of other animals and birds that were not so lucky. I can't help any of them. ONE POSSUM!! How can I get my head around it. All I can do is serve our Lazarus his favourite meals -- with a rose as a garnish -- which he eats first. I watch him decorate his little home -- a hanging basket with two liners sewn together. He gathers leaves in his tail and places them inside.
Narrowing one's focus, for small chucks of time, is sometimes necessary for survival I tell myself.
Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Rowan
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 04:05 PM

Some people who spent the night on a football field in Marysville spoke to the press. They were not as safe as I thought. They spent the night dodging flames as the winds changed.

Some towns are closed to returning residents until bodies can be removed from the streets. Scenes of burnt out car crashes give an insight into the panic.

A nightmare.


Truly it is, Sins.
The major problem with wildfires is the radiant heat produced by the flame front. It preheats everything, vapourising volatiles and even much that isn't usually volatile. A rule of thumb is that, for every metre of flame height, the radiation from the flames will burn exposed human skin for about 4 horizontal metres. This obviously doesn't hold true for small flames, up to a couple of metres high but the radiation from such flames can still overload the body's thermoregulation.

As an instructor and assessor of trainee firefighters I put a lot of effort into drilling these details into their consciousness and it grieves me when I see TV footage of people fighting flames in their back yards wearing shorts and short-sleeved shirts; they are seriously foolish. Many of the flames in the footage shown of fires around Melbourne are in excess of 30 metres high; that's 100' for the nonmetrics among us. Radiation from such flames will burn at 400' away and it's no wonder that the people at Marysville's sportsground felt threatened. Most of the roads around Kinglake are in steep terrain and thus are narrow, with tall timber only a few metres from the shoulder. Even though the fireffront may be moving at considerable speed, the horizontal "depth" of flame can be so great that anyone caught in it can be exposed to intense heat for 15-20 minutes.

Sorry about all the bald facts but I suspect it's my way of coping. Almost 50 years ago Kinglake area was where I cut my firefighting teeth (and was under a truck being overrun while trying to save a house built in a gully; we and it survived) and the area between Kinglake West and Marysville was my turf 40 years ago. The friends I know about have all survived and the folkies are doing what friends do best.

But the death toll is now, according to this morning's news, 166 and expected to rise.

The 7th of February has a poor history. When the intensity of fire started being measured in Oz, the 1961 fire at Dwellingup in WA (Western Australia, for you North Americans) was regarded as the biggest; in the terminology of the day, it released the energy equivalent of 10 Hiroshima over a couple of weeks. On 7 Feb 1967, the fires in Tasmania coalesced and released the same amount of energy between 1pm and 3pm. The township of Snug disappeared, much like Marysville on the same day in 2009.

The emotional impact on the community was horrific and repeated on Ash Wednesday (liturgically and metaphorically) of 1983 in Adelaide and Melbourne and again in Canberra during January 2003. We got through those and we'll get through this but a lot of people are going to need the famous Mudcat hugs.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Rowan
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 04:15 PM

Back to the folk bits.

Although the Alleway's house apparently survived (the answering machine is still working) police roadblocks are still preventing access so details are yet to be confirmed; the instruments should be OK.

Lynne lost her Aeloa (and quite a lot of other stuff) but her computer is with her and contains all her patterns and photos. "At the moment just breathing is pretty good."

Proncious (Frank) and Mary were in Melbourne and have only what they had in the car but a neighbour saved their dog. Joybell & Hildebrand have offered them the loan of instruments.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: GUEST,new zealand/jordan klenner
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 04:43 PM

hello how do you keep safe in a bush fire

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 04:45 PM

It's been pouring in Sidmouth and Exeter for nearly two days now, flooding all over the place. I sure as heck wish I could send some of it out to you guys.

Again, my thoughts and prayers are with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 04:54 PM

I welcome your posts Rowan. Thank you. I'm thinking the same way. I can't help noticing the shorts and sandals and bare arms either. I headed a "Bushfire Survival Group" after Ash Wednesday. (Contary to a lot of popular opinion the group was mainly made up of volunteer conservation workers.) The rules for survival were set down during this period, based on past fires everywhere.
When the time comes for looking at the events of the present in a cool way (no pun intended) it will be the evidence gathered from people who died -- while following the rules --- that will be very important.
My wonderful Gilchrist guitar -- yes Hildebrand will share his Gibson with me. Frank really likes my Gilchrist. It will enjoy his attentions.
Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 06:11 PM

latest confirmed total of 173 deaths expected to increase throughout the day.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: quokka
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 06:47 PM

We started a bushfire collection at work yesterday morning and by lunchtime had raised $1000.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 06:58 PM

This really, really hurts.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: John O'L
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 07:30 PM

The Red Cross has an appeal going which grew from $12 million to over $15 million in less that 3 hours this morning, and apparently that's just private donations. There are corporate donations on top of that.
Still, that's just a drop in the bucket.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 07:48 PM

Joy, bless your heart for taking the little possum. That one is good to focus on. It is good to have small things to concentrate on and give us a feeling of control and positivity.

I am appalled at the loss of lives and homes, but I have especial empathy for all of the creatures and it tears my heart to pieces to think of them all.

Also, I apologise for not knowing enough about the geography...are there aboriginal communities which have been caught in this, too?

Is there anything specific we Mudcatters can do along with hugs? Spare instruments we don't need/want which could be sent down? Ideas in a separate thread, maybe?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Rowan
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 09:58 PM

Kat,
Many thanks for the offer but it will be at least a couple of weeks before the smoke clears (literally and metaphorically) and we have a good picture of how the folk community has been affected. So far it's only a few people we have information about and there may be others who've not been in any position to communicate, especially in some of the areas remote from Melbourne. For example, there used to be a thriving folk scene in St Andrews and the Smith's Gully/Panton Hills areas but I lost contact with them when I moved to the Oz New England, 17 hours' drive north of there.

how do you keep safe in a bush fire
Jordan, that is a rather loaded question at the moment and even before the latest events would require a fair amount of reading and some training; many in Oz aren't really aware although there are efforts at trying to help them become aware.

Keeping an eye open for what's happening around you and how weather patterns affect fires is always a good move, as is removing oneself from the scene completely. Even clever and prepared people got caught out in this latest event, mostly (I suspect) by the effect of the cold front.

Before it arrived, the High Pressure cell in the Tasman kept directing hot airflow (at high speed) over Victoria from the northwest. This pushed the fires along towards the southeast, where the fire front may not have been particularly wide but the northern and southern flanks became quite extended. When a cold front arrives (in the Southern Hemisphere), the wind backs almost 90 degrees and blows (often at high speed) from the southwest. Suddenly, a 20km long northern flank of a fire becomes a 20km long fire front. This can happen in as little as 2 or 3 minutes and may well be the major reason why so many got caught; it is a firefighter's nightmare and training attempts to avoid it.

The very worst place to be is uphill and downwind of any wildfire. Even a relatively gentle wind will cause the flames to lean downwind, increasing their preheating effect; the higher the flames, the more intense it becomes. The MacArthur meter calculates fire behaviour with the assumption that the ground is flat; for every ten degrees of slope the fire's speed doubles. The more fuel there is available (especially fuel as fine as 6mm diameter cross-section) the more intense the fire. Grass fires move with amazing speed but the flame front may pass in only seconds; scrub and forest fires can move almost as fast but will usually have greater depth so protection is required for longer.

Radiant heat is the big killer so, if you can protect yourself from it you've improved whatever your situation. Dugouts, of the sort recommended to be located in bush areas by the Royal Commission after the 1939 fires can be ideal but most were in disrepair by the time the 1962 fires ripped through the Dandenongs near the current conflagrations. Some over last weekend saved themselves by crawling into culverts under the road but even large wheel ruts and boulders have been used. There is a famous photo in Joan Webster's post-1983 book (repeated I think in Paul Collins' post-2003 equivalent) of a bloke who survived the 1939 fires by standing up under a woollen blanket that he repeatedly doused with water from a bucket he kept with him.

If caught while driving, the best place is often (but not always) in the car. It should be as far away from fuel (vegetation) as possible (an area already burned out is ideal) and the windows must be kept shut and personnel must be as low in the car as possible and covered with woollen blankets. This will frequently keep you safe until the flame front has passed and then you get out. Everything not covered will burn flesh so open doors etc with gloves on. This is drummed into all rural firefighters as a response to overrun and I assure you it works unless there is too much fuel too close to the vehicle; in those circumstances plastics inside the vehicle may vapourise and may even flash over leading to superheated toxic fumes that are themselves burning.

Natural fibres are de rigeur. Cotton drill, long sleeves and trousers, woollen socks, leather footwear and gloves, broadbrimmed hat (Akubras are made of felted rabbit hair) are routine for me and I keep a couple of woollen blankets in the back of the car, along with leather gloves under the driver's seat. Polyester, thinsulate and such artificial fibres may be more fashionable and even effective in the cold but heat can turn them into a passable version of napalm that melts into the skin.

And that's just the personal protection bit. Most states run a Community Fireguard program that is designed to help the nonfirefighters understand how to prepare and protect themselves and it is vital that people who live or work in the urban-rural interface get involved. One aspect is a proper plan and an understanding of when to stay and when to go; many of those who were killed had done things properly but, I suspect, were overwhelmed by the sheer scale of what was happening and decided to go but left that decision until it was too late.

The sound of a major fire can cause you to lose all control, emotionally and of your sphincters; until you've experienced it you don't know how you will deal with it. My first firefighting event was when I was young and we were overrun; all the others were older and knew what to do and we all survived. I've spent much of my life training others how to become effective in emergency situations, including firefighting and I've been up close and personal with some major events. But, even with all that, I can't be sure that I would have been any better at coping in a house by myself than any of those who tried and died.

So, how do you keep safe in a bushfire?
Prepare yourself, learn and train, practise until you are supremely effective and can be surprised by almost nothing. And then hope that luck is with you.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 10:46 PM

Rowan, thank you for all of your posts about this. I am learning a lot and I have a great deal of respect for your knowledge and sharing and experience.

Here in Western Colorado we invariably have wildfires started by lightening strikes. The deadliest was in 1994 when 14 firefighters lost their lives: Storm King Mountain. It was a tragedy they hope never to repeat.

Again, good thoughts and thankfull prayers for rain coming to Australia.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: nager
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 12:51 AM

Temperatures are dropping and we are getting a little rain at last where it is needed but it has been a terrible tragedy. The pictures we have seen on TV and in papers like the Melbourne Age and Sydney Morning Herald reduce you to tears. It is feared up to 300 may have perished once all the searches have been completed. It is amazing that while the fires have been raging in Victoria, in Queensland vast areas have been inundated by floods.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 01:04 AM

Organizations of all kinds are donating money to the appeal. I attended a meeting of The "University of the Third Age - Hamilton Branch" this morning and this small group is donating a quarter of their bank balance -- from fees of members. Everybody confirmed that all the other groups to which they belong are donating money too. That's: Creative Writers, Scrabble Players, Quilters, Choirs, Dramatic groups, Sports groups, local schools... to name just a few. Everybody is donating privately as well.

Thank you for your support Kat.
I have some contact with Folkies around Melbourne and Central Victoria, and also with the Bluegrass and Old Timey musicians. I'll pass on the thoughts of everyone here and try to find out if there are any needs we can help with. People will have lost collections of CDs and the like.
Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Rowan
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 01:05 AM

It is amazing that while the fires have been raging in Victoria, in Queensland vast areas have been inundated by floods.

As predicted by global warming/climate change models.

The pictures we have seen on TV and in papers like the Melbourne Age and Sydney Morning Herald reduce you to tears.

They certainly did for me.

As a piece of trivia, in the SMH today there was one photo that truly staggered me. It was an aerial shot of a landscape, of rolling hills to the horizon, with burned out timber as thick as you could imagine. My calculations had the remnants of the trees at least 50' tall. And right in the middle of all this was a two storied house, with trees no more than 25' from its walls, completely untouched by the conflagration.

No insurance company would have insured it with fuel so close. But other places, where they'd done the right thing about keeping vegetation away from the buildings are devastated.

Truly amazing; I can see why the photographer took the pic!

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 01:38 AM

I remember after Ash Wednesday, Rowan, that there were several homes in dense bushland that had apparently survived because tall trees around them carried the fire over and onwards. Still you'd wonder how anything could survive last Saturday's fire -- given the changed overall conditions.
Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 03:52 AM

Death toll approaching 200, almost 1,000 homes destroyed

extracts -

The official toll stands at 173 dead with more than 50 people still missing, thought to be dead, making it the country's worst bushfire disaster.
The blazes have burnt through more than 3,000 square kilometres - entire towns were wiped off the map within 24 hours at the weekend.
More than 900 homes have been destroyed and 7,000 survivors have registered for assistance with the Red Cross.

Red Cross Australia spokesman Michael Raper says Australians, along with people around the world, have shown how generous they are.
"We have got $28 million from 156,000 people donating on the website and on the 1800 number," he said.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 08:07 AM

I looked through the thread quite quickly, and didn't see anything related to accounts that are now being reported in the US, that the fires (some of them anyway) are suspected of being intentionally set. Is there any truth to this rumor, and what would motivate anyone to do this?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 08:23 AM

Our news of arson is coming from Australia:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/10/australia-fires-arsonists

One article said that life imprisonment is a possibility if anyone is proved guilty.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 08:30 AM

Arson is suspected in some of the Victorian fires.

A man has been arrested over a fire about 50 miles north of Sydney - Accused fire bug refused bail

Arsonists not remorseful despite carnage, says expert

search of news radio site on "arson and bushfires and 2009"

181 dead as bushfires continue to wreak havoc extract - Police today established a taskforce to investigate how the fires started. They already know the Churchill blaze was deliberately lit.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 10:57 AM

Maybe there will be just enough rain to soak everything down and not more. That is my fervent wish anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 11:13 AM

There are some pretty incredible survivor stories in the SMH. This lady has lived through three major brushfires, this time at the age of 99.

I just started looking at the slideshow of people who lost their lives or are missing at the SMH site. I cannot look at any more, nor read about it any more. It is too sad. You all are in my thoughts and heart.