BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009-2020

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: JennieG
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 08:19 PM

Evidently a fire at the weekend that burnt some houses (but no people were harmed) at Narre Warren on the outskirts of Melbourne was accidently started by a bloke using a power tool. He is to be charged but I'm not sure what the charge is to be......stupidity in using a machine that throws sparks on a day of total fire ban? Even steam trains aren't allowed to run on total fire ban days.

My online quilt group has put out the call and we are all busy sewing, we want to have quilts for those folk so they can have something warm to wrap themselves in and know that people are thinking of them.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 06:16 PM

see tandberg cartoon 10th feb - 18th of 20 cartoons, title "The Home Grown Terrorist"

A few years back the Howard Government sent every household in Australia a fridge magnet - telling us to be alert but not alarmed & keep our eyes out for the terrorists under every bed. Many folks were underwhelmed by the magnets & the scare campaign & either sent their magnets back or did not follow the suggestion of placing them on their fridges. I remember a cartoon where the authorities raided someone's place & declared they must be terrorists cos they had displayed their magnet on their fridge. I think it was also by Tandberg.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Rowan
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 05:25 PM

It's been said before, with some truth in Oz, that a terrorist's easiest "Weapon of Mass Destruction" is a box of matches. The current conflagrations around Melbourne are being used to assess the adequacy of response to a terrorist attack.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 05:06 PM

Arson is believable in one or two cases, but I wouldn't think dozens. I was beginning to wonder if it was some kind of a terrorist attack.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Tangledwood
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 04:49 PM

One of the reports relating to arson mentioned a trail bike being seen in the area. That set me wondering if all vehicles should be banned from non-residential forest areas, or even off-road grass areas, on high risk days, not because they may be driven by criminals but because of the exhaust.

Vehicles used on airport movement areas are required to have spark arresters on exhausts and more than one helicopter operator has lost his aircraft to fire after landing in long grass.

As for cigarette butts thrown from cars I'll say *&&%%$###** !!! too! During Brisbane's main fire risk period, pre-Christmas, there are often fires on centre median strips on the highway. They can only originate from butts.

Joy, enjoy the kinder weather while you can. Apparently smoke from your area is making it as far as SW Queensland.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 04:37 PM

Aussie Bush Fire (Photos)

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 04:21 PM

Riginslinger -- there's a good link up there to a piece about people who used to be called "Fire bugs". Arsonist is a better word I reckon. Less cute.
We're getting better at identifying causes of fires now. Amazingly deliberatly lit fires are common. Often it's people ignoring fire bans but it may also be arsonists. The increased mobility of everyone has meant that arsonists can be lighting a series of fires along a bush track and get out of the way and off home before they're noticed. The methods are very simple.

Causes under the heading of stupid, ignorant, momentary lapse, or unable-to-understand-and-unsupervised are:
Tools that throw off sparks, camp fires, cigarette butts thrown from cars, people burning off, little kids with matches and firelighters, power mowers -- and many more.
Causes like these are known to be responsible for bushfires in the past. On Saturday the grass fire that put us on alert was the result of a burn-off. The warnings were there, what can I say. *&&%%$###** !!! Workmen with power tools started one of the Ash Wednesday fires. In the 1970s terrible fires in the town where I lived were started by little kids with Mummy's cigarette lighter.

The pressure has eased somewhat. We can't yet say the word controlled but the weather continues to be kinder.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: John O'L
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 04:16 PM

Power. I've heard that arson is similar to rape in that respect..

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Rowan
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 04:15 PM

Riginslinger, I suspect you and I are both old enough to know there are some strangely disturbed people out there.

The profiles of bushfire arsonists in Oz is male, between 15 and 25 years old, with a need for excitement, instant gratification and being the centre of attention ( "once removed" unless they set out to be caught as well); they also usually have a limited ability to think through the consequences of their actions.

But I'm sure you, in the depths of your being, already knew all that.

Cheers, Rowan

PS I hope you had some success with books for you friend.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 08:32 AM

Who in the world could be setting these fires? What could be their motive?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 08:29 AM

Janie -
queensland floods

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 08:22 AM

Just listened to the radio news where Victorian Police Commissioner, Christine Nixon, said the Marysville fire was suspicious & probably deliberately lit.

Vic arson taskforce appeals for public help - story posted 2hrs 37 mins ago One hundred and fifty detectives are working across six fire zones set up as part of Taskforce Phoenix.
Four of the six blazes are not suspicious with the cause of the Marysville fire yet to be determined.

Up to 1 in 5 dead in Marysville: Brumby - "In the Marysville area, there could be somewhere between 50 and 100 lives lost," he said. (out of 500+ population)

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 07:52 AM

talking about Bob behind his back - he's Sydney born & bred, & as his home connection hasn't been working for months, he can only (occasionally) access Mudcat at work.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 04:53 AM

OK. Rowan. Norm Adams lives in a safe place. No problem there. I'll try and give updates about other musicians as they come to light. I've tapped into the network.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 03:59 AM

That's the one that affect my daughter and the people of Warburton. Although if the fires merge east of her and the wind keeps taking the fires east she'll be safe but the whole of Gippsland will be at risk.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: freda underhill
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 03:23 AM

news from Bill Arnett ..
1.
"Aunty" Lyn Stone lost her home and her bus but was able to save her computer and her embroidery gear.
2.
Frank Murphy and Mary S were in Melbourne when the fire struck and lost everything they did not have with them.
3.
The Alleways AND their home & property (including the incredible "Otto") are safe.

in the meantime fire crews are now trying to keep separate two major fire fronts in Victoria's east after lightning sparked several smaller blazes between them. A 220,000-hectare blaze stretching from Kilmore to Marysville and Healesville is at risk of merging with a 25,000-hectare fire at Bunyip Ridge.

it's not over yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: John O'L
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 03:04 AM

Apparently some of the flood victims in north Queensland have donated their disaster relief cheques to the bushfire victims in Victoria.
That's compassion.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Rowan
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 01:20 AM

When you move to Tamworth JennieG, remember to bring some of those coastal breezes with you; the recent maximum temps have consistently been about 10 C higher than Sydney's. Of course, yu could always come a further hour and a half north, up the Moonbis, and come to where we're "real cool" by comparison.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: JennieG
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 01:14 AM

I don't think Bob is Tasmanian, but his wife Patricia is.

Himself and I have enjoyed many holidays visiting Victoria and at one stage we had even thought of moving there when we are both retired from work. I have family connections with Vic as my father was from Melbourne, and I loved it when visiting as a child. But we have decided to stay in NSW, we are moving to Tamworth instead - not so many fires around Tamworth. Victoria is the smallest mainland state of Oz, but the most fire-prone.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Janie
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 01:12 AM

Rowan, Joybell, Sandra, and all of you in Oz who have been posting,

Thank you so much for taking the time, in the midst of what your Country is going through, for taking the time to post, to make it personal, and to share your depth of knowledge and information.

I also wonder about what the people of Queensland are going through with the flooding that has occurred there.

On the one hand, Australia is such an exotic place to someone like me on the other side of the world. On the other hand, however, each of you make real how connected we all are on this small piece of real estate that we call Earth. Our relatedness through having read one another's posts on any number of threads, be they above or below "the line," really brings this home in ways that simply reading the world news headlines does not.

May all who have experienced harm, or who fear they are in harm's way, seek and find whatever blessings may be had.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 12:43 AM

Thanks, guys. I did just see his posting in the other thread. Tasmanian eh? So that's why he's sich a divil?!**Bg**

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Rowan
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 12:42 AM

Bob is Tasmanian I think.

He might have been originally and certainly was once, but he's been a Sydneysider for yonks and well out of harm's way, unless he's decided to go down there as a volunteer. He's currently posting on the Old man kangaroo thread.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Andrez
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 12:37 AM

Update for those interested. The Red Cross appeal for Disaster relief has just topped $44 million! If anyone feels they want to contribute the Redcross link is as follows:

http://www.redcross.org.au/default.asp

Cheers,

Andrez

PS: Bob is Tasmanian I think. Thats a small island off the coast of Antarctica over near new Zealand. I dont think there is a current bushfire emergency over there.

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 12:15 AM

What about Bob Bolton? Where does he live? Has anyone heard from him?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 12:14 AM

Sadly I can relate to the being spat on bit -- although for us it was verbal attacks in the street.

John Rasmussen should be OK. He lives in Research. O'Leary is working on finding out about Norm Adams and other musicians who may be in affected areas. I can also say that the Warburton Folkies are also OK. They're near my daughter. There's another group of Folkies in the Bunyip fire area. Haven't heard about them yet. I'll try to find out. The Bluegrass and Old Timey crowd in Beechworth and surrounds -- I should try to find out about them too.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Rowan
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 11:44 PM

It's my pleasure, Joy.
When I was in Jindabyne during the 2003 conflagration (in the Planning Section as an Air Observer) I became aware of the local (State MP) w@nking publicly in the Cooma paper stirring up similar arguments against National Parks personnel to the extent that they were being spat upon, in the street, by other locals; there were bits of ash landing in their back yards so tension was "elevated".

The same pollie came into the Fire Control Centre and demanded that the Incident Controller stop what he was doing (there were only nine separate Fireground Divisions being managed around all of the Alpine areas) and give him a briefing. The person at the reception desk was a Queensland Firefighter and didn't recognise him so he officiously informed her and repeated the demand. If I'd been within earshot of this he would have been frogmarched out the door and told to mind his Ps & Qs.

As it was, It has been my habit to write "Director's Notes" as a debriefing tool after such events and there was much praise heaped on the NPWS performance and a couple of "heads up's" for the RFS. Knowing that the RFS had a checkered history about acknowledging the worth of such information, I sent it also to the relevant Regional Director of NPWS and made sure the local NPWS staff got a copy; the pollie's actions were comprehensively described. At the State election a few months later I was interested to note that the pollie had lost his seat.

Ohhhhhh!

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 11:21 PM

Rowan how I welcome meeting you here. Thank you. I've been concerned about "Iron Bar". Thing is he doesn't have the knowledge or the qualifications to back up his dangerous ideas. I get so weary of hearing that "the greenies wouldn't let us cut down trees/block up rivers/open up the wilderness/... so they are to blame for death/destruction/..."
I'm so glad I can come here in peace and not have to be on the defensive.
Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Rowan
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 11:09 PM

Between our last fire and the one before that, the county installed, quite under the radar, a reverse 911 system.

heric,
If you're ever in Oz the emergency number, equivalent to your 911, to be dialled is 000; triple zero. And one of the suggestions to have been made already is the installation and use of a signalling system that automatically switches on any radio, TV and phone system and broadcasts "Evacuate" messages. Quite sensible but there were fires on Sunday that burned out houses before their presence was made known to the Fire Control Centre.

I know the Kinglake district well having lived in the area in several small towns over the years.

Andrez,
I was hoping you'd appear on the thread. Knowing that you had connections with folkies up there I was wondering if you'd had any news of people like Brent Davey, John Rasmussen & family and Norm Adams. I've been away from Melbourne for so long I don't even know if they still live up there but thought you might.

re: recriminations. Anger is a healthy part of the grieving process.

Sinsull,
I agree wholeheartedly. I'm not antagonistic to a blame and recrimination phase per se, just so long as it stays sensible; venting in such circumstances can be very therapeutic and positive. But there is a politician famous in Oz for his right wing views (his "Iron Bar" nickname dates from his use of such an implement to maintain order in the pub he owned) who is already spreading misinformation about how the conservationists are to blame because "they prevented Controlled Burning and logging". Much of the vegetation around the hills from Kinglake West to Marysville would be destroyed by Controlled Burning and most of it is in Melbourne's water catchments, where water quality is maintained by prohibiting logging.

A purely impartial observer might regard both him and me as having axes to grind, but I'd suggest his axe is more destructive of the values held by most of the people who are interested in the areas affected.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 09:52 PM

re: recriminations. Anger is a healthy part of the grieving process. I keep thinking about the young children who have been frightened out of their wits. A lot of people will need a lot of emotional support over the next year.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 06:03 PM

I know what you mean, Andrez. Me too. I seem to have moved home a few years ahead of bushfires several times and made decisions not to move to other places just before them. We would have been in the middle of the Grampians when they burned 2 years back -- if money had allowed and that's just because we couldn't afford Kinglake or Marysville.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Andrez
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 05:44 PM

A link to ABC radio Melbourne, the emergency services broadcast network for anyone who wants to keep upto date or just hear a little of what is happening with the bushfire story.

http://www.abc.net.au/melbourne/

I know the Kinglake district well having lived in the area in several small towns over the years. In the last 2 years, we had looked at properties and acreage in several of the affected areas including, St Andrews, Strathewen, Christmas Hills and Steels creek. For family reasons we didnt buy and instead moved to the inner suburbs closer to the city. I was fairly heartbroken when we decided not to buy a place in Skyline Road, Steels Creek but having seen the utter desolation in that area after the weekend fires it just makes you think about how a seemingly random choice can be seen with hindsight to have such life or death implications. We could so easily have been in the area at this time. There but for the grace of (insert name of favourite deity/power here) ........ go us all.

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 05:30 PM

Art -- No worries about Stewie and Cathy unless a cyclone comes their way. But no bushfire worries.
Love, and all the best, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 05:27 PM

SINSULL -- yes, she's OK. The fire has remained on her doorstep -- well 10 minutes by car away. It's remained one of the more controlable fires and it hasn't linked up with the others. The wind is taking it in the other direction. Although her area is also forest there's a lot of cleared space and the weather conditions are much improved. Also they won't be taken off-guard now. When the heat returns on the weekend (the forecast is 30 degrees - not 47) she'll be back down to the suburbs with her children and dog well before there's any danger. I was concerned that on Saturday their mustering point was so far away down one highway. (Lilydale and she's in Launching Place, for those who know the area.) There are so many people living along that highway. It's something to consider when this season is over.
Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Art Thieme
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 05:01 PM

I've not seen Stewie showing up in this thread. He's in Darwin---and we truly hope that he and Cathy are safe.

All the best to all of you,

Art and Carol

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: heric
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 04:44 PM

>now entering the "blame and recriminations" phase <

Knowing that was coming, Rowan, I decided not to mention something relevant to "next time."

Between our last fire and the one before that, the county installed, quite under the radar, a reverse 911 system. Thousands of people were surprised to get these automated calls in the middle of the night, telling them to get out immediately. It worked tremendously well.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Rowan
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 04:41 PM

After the Canberra fires (much the same sense of devastation and loss, although only 4 died) there was a major investigation into how the fire had managed to move so swiftly and destroy so many (~500) houses. This resulted in a half hour tv program on the ABC with Phil Cheney being one of the investigation experts interviewed.

Towards the end of the program they interviewed a mature-aged gentleman outside his house; he'd managed to stay and defend his own house and at least two others owned by neighbours who'd left. He was asked to display his gear; full overalls (like welders' overalls, but cotton, with no polyester), broad-brimmed hat, goggles, a nappy (diaper for North Americans) over his nose like a mask, leather gloves and a garden hose. He'd done what Joy's elderly lady had done, in the face of fierce ember attack and the passage of the fire front.

And, here's the bit that has stuck with me.

The interviewer asked, "Weren't you panicked?"
And the bloke replied,

"Of course not! I'm a public servant and we deal with emergencies all the time."

Everyone I know who saw that program understood what he meant.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 04:26 PM

I looked at some of those people too, kat. Although I didn't know any of them personally -- I know that some of them at least knew about bushfire survival. That's really scary as well as so very, very sad.
When I was involved in a bushfire survival group, we were told about an elderly lady (in her 80s or 90s I believe)who survived the Ash Wednesday fires. She became an inspiration to many of us. She was one of the many survivers who helped formulate the "stay or leave early" rule.
She had been left behind in a housing estate when everyone else had been evacuated. How this happened was also part of the study. There had been no classes about living with bushfires at the time. Anyway she shut herself in, pulled the heavy drapes and waited until the firefront had passed. When she opened her front door she noticed her verandah floor was burning in several places. With a mop and bucket she put out the fires and sat on the porch awaiting developments. She noticed that her neighbour's house was starting to burn so she put out the fires around this house too -- with her mop and bucket. When help came it was noted that every house in the estate had been completely destroyed except for hers and the two either side. She told everyone that she had nothing else to do while she was waiting.
There's a lot more to the study of course but this story has stayed with me.
Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Rowan
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 04:25 PM

There are still approx 30 fires "Ongoing" around Victoria but the community is now entering the "blame and recriminations" phase as well as the more productive recovery phase. These phases seem always to follow major disasters (and even some minor ones) and, despite some of the wobbly grip on facts, do serve to deal with emotional release at the community level.

Sandra's links give the good oil on the current state of understanding regarding arsonists and the suspicion of arson is one of the reasons why so much of the State is categorised as a "Crime Scene". Consequent restrictions on access by displaced residents who want to check on whether their house/ friends/ livestock etc have survived are causing some grief but many access roads are still blocked by fallen trees, overhanging dangerous trees, burned out vehicles etc so it will be a day or two before they're cleared.

Of major concern is whether the current policy of allowing residents to remain to defend a well-prepared house (many of the deaths might have been prevented if this policy had not been in place) should be replaced by one of forced removal. The Victorian Premier has flagged the establishment of a Royal Commission to investigate this and other aspects of the fires. I have some strong views (aka "bias", although well supported by evidence) so I'll be a close observer of its progress.

Victoria has a history of establishing Royal Commissions after major fires. The one after the 1939 fires resulted in the proper organisation of the volunteer firefighters as part of the statewide Country Fire Authority and the building of many dugouts in forested areas for fire protection of small groups of people. After the '62-63 fires in the Dandenongs (when taxi cabs were deployed to all the hilltops to provide radio communications between the firegrounds and Melbourne CBD) the Commission recommended proper radio nets be permanently established. After Ash Wednesday's fires the Commission made recommendations about planning requirements (many of which don't seem to have happened) but the main one I remember was because of the overrun of the Cockatoo Brigade's crew; on a narrow track they'd stopped and turned the motor off. When they found they were in the fire's path the petrol in the fuel lines had vapourised and they couldn't restart and were incinerated. Diesel was consequently mandated as the only fuel for firefighting appliances and brigade training was changed to prevent such occurrences.

The report this morning was that the Red Cross had raised $15 million in just 12 hours yesterday and all from private donors; institutional donations had brought the total to $30 million by this morning. The Blood Bank has been overwhelmed with donors. For those in the US, blood donors are volunteers with no payment involved; you don't even get a yeast-enriched beer (as you used to in Britain) - a cup of tea or coffee and a biscuit ("cookie" to our American friends) is the go.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 04:03 PM

Yarra Valley was hit hard, joybell. Any word on your daughter's home?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 11:13 AM

There are some pretty incredible survivor stories in the SMH. This lady has lived through three major brushfires, this time at the age of 99.

I just started looking at the slideshow of people who lost their lives or are missing at the SMH site. I cannot look at any more, nor read about it any more. It is too sad. You all are in my thoughts and heart.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 10:57 AM

Maybe there will be just enough rain to soak everything down and not more. That is my fervent wish anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 08:30 AM

Arson is suspected in some of the Victorian fires.

A man has been arrested over a fire about 50 miles north of Sydney - Accused fire bug refused bail

Arsonists not remorseful despite carnage, says expert

search of news radio site on "arson and bushfires and 2009"

181 dead as bushfires continue to wreak havoc extract - Police today established a taskforce to investigate how the fires started. They already know the Churchill blaze was deliberately lit.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 08:23 AM

Our news of arson is coming from Australia:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/10/australia-fires-arsonists

One article said that life imprisonment is a possibility if anyone is proved guilty.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 08:07 AM

I looked through the thread quite quickly, and didn't see anything related to accounts that are now being reported in the US, that the fires (some of them anyway) are suspected of being intentionally set. Is there any truth to this rumor, and what would motivate anyone to do this?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 03:52 AM

Death toll approaching 200, almost 1,000 homes destroyed

extracts -

The official toll stands at 173 dead with more than 50 people still missing, thought to be dead, making it the country's worst bushfire disaster.
The blazes have burnt through more than 3,000 square kilometres - entire towns were wiped off the map within 24 hours at the weekend.
More than 900 homes have been destroyed and 7,000 survivors have registered for assistance with the Red Cross.

Red Cross Australia spokesman Michael Raper says Australians, along with people around the world, have shown how generous they are.
"We have got $28 million from 156,000 people donating on the website and on the 1800 number," he said.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 01:38 AM

I remember after Ash Wednesday, Rowan, that there were several homes in dense bushland that had apparently survived because tall trees around them carried the fire over and onwards. Still you'd wonder how anything could survive last Saturday's fire -- given the changed overall conditions.
Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Rowan
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 01:05 AM

It is amazing that while the fires have been raging in Victoria, in Queensland vast areas have been inundated by floods.

As predicted by global warming/climate change models.

The pictures we have seen on TV and in papers like the Melbourne Age and Sydney Morning Herald reduce you to tears.

They certainly did for me.

As a piece of trivia, in the SMH today there was one photo that truly staggered me. It was an aerial shot of a landscape, of rolling hills to the horizon, with burned out timber as thick as you could imagine. My calculations had the remnants of the trees at least 50' tall. And right in the middle of all this was a two storied house, with trees no more than 25' from its walls, completely untouched by the conflagration.

No insurance company would have insured it with fuel so close. But other places, where they'd done the right thing about keeping vegetation away from the buildings are devastated.

Truly amazing; I can see why the photographer took the pic!

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: Joybell
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 01:04 AM

Organizations of all kinds are donating money to the appeal. I attended a meeting of The "University of the Third Age - Hamilton Branch" this morning and this small group is donating a quarter of their bank balance -- from fees of members. Everybody confirmed that all the other groups to which they belong are donating money too. That's: Creative Writers, Scrabble Players, Quilters, Choirs, Dramatic groups, Sports groups, local schools... to name just a few. Everybody is donating privately as well.

Thank you for your support Kat.
I have some contact with Folkies around Melbourne and Central Victoria, and also with the Bluegrass and Old Timey musicians. I'll pass on the thoughts of everyone here and try to find out if there are any needs we can help with. People will have lost collections of CDs and the like.
Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: nager
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 12:51 AM

Temperatures are dropping and we are getting a little rain at last where it is needed but it has been a terrible tragedy. The pictures we have seen on TV and in papers like the Melbourne Age and Sydney Morning Herald reduce you to tears. It is feared up to 300 may have perished once all the searches have been completed. It is amazing that while the fires have been raging in Victoria, in Queensland vast areas have been inundated by floods.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushfires in Australia - Feb 2009
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 10:46 PM

Rowan, thank you for all of your posts about this. I am learning a lot and I have a great deal of respect for your knowledge and sharing and experience.

Here in Western Colorado we invariably have wildfires started by lightening strikes. The deadliest was in 1994 when 14 firefighters lost their lives: Storm King Mountain. It was a tragedy they hope never to repeat.

Again, good thoughts and thankfull prayers for rain coming to Australia.

kat