Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??

Subject: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 01:42 PM

Well being and old IT guy for the last 35 years, just about once a week a friend will call me and it usually goes like this. "Hey Dan, my computer is nuts up, I think I have a virus". Or I get, someone stole my credit card info and what a mess.    Ok, something to think about. What does a normal home user need.   My list would be
1) be able to surf the web
2) do email
3) use my digital camera
4) use a webcam
5) write my book with a word processor or make a slide show presentation, listen to music, view video's ect ...

Which comes to my point. For a Home user, think UNBUNTU LINUX
1) it is free and technically under the hood it is a superior operating system then any flavor of Windows
2) OPEN OFFICE is free, it supports all windows formats yet gives you a word processor, power point presentation, excel and the whole nine yards of Microsoft office, FREE
I know many major corporations that are now using open office instead of Microsoft office (which costs 400 bucks a pop)

Unbuntu Linux - NO viruses, NO spyware, NO antivirus software to worry about. Evoluation mail (far superior to outlook express or Outlook for that matter)

In order to get a bad program on Linux, you have to put it on yourself, you are not going to Catch it from the net ..

Firefox web browser that comes with it,   Far superior than Internet Explorer.

Moral of the story, at my office all my PC's are Windows based because my clients are Windows based. AT home I use Linux, I don't have to worry if my anti virus anti spyware is up to date cause I can't get anything that will mess up the machine or compromise my security when paying bills online.

Navigation, just as easy to use Linux as with Windows, actually easier than Vista by many factors.

Speed, much much faster than windows

Downside - NONE

Think Unbuntu Linux instead of Windows for home use and avoid all the headaches that comes with virus and spyware and all the other bad stuff out there.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: michaelr
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 01:57 PM

I keep hearing about Linux, but where does one get the machine that has it? I've never seen a computer for sale that wasn't Mac or Windows.

The other question is, Can it run Adobe Photoshop/Illustrator? Can it run recording programs such as Cakewalk or Pro Tools?

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 02:42 PM

There are free add on programs that will do the same for you as adobe and a pile of recording tools. Dell is now allowing the option of unbuntu on notebooks when they are purchased. But for me instead of upgrading a windows xp to vista ect I download unbutu and installed it. I have recording software on my home machine and just about every tool for photo enhancement you can imagine. the GIMP image editor is nearly a carbon copy of photoshop only with more tools .. its free also. Most all education facilites and government development offices all use Linux because it is far more secure

If you have an old machine around, I would suggest giving it a try. All the computer manufacturers have a deal with Microsoft hence we get windows all the time. For my home use however, I use Linux , I got sick of anti virus issues and spyware a long time ago. I can burn you a CD if you need one, the download takes quite a long time

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 02:47 PM

I need a new computer so I've just been asking around and learnt that Acer Extensa 5230 comes without a pre-installed operating system. Which would be nice. I use Firefox and Thunderbird anyway, and Open Office sometimes.

But like Michael I'd like to be reassured about particular problems: whether Ubuntu will enable me to watch and burn CDs and DVDs, look at YouTube clips etc. My biggest worry is my F&A database programme, but as far as I know that doesn't run on anything younger than Windows 98, so I'll probably have to rebuild my databases in the OpenOffice software.

Olddude, as you seem to know a lot about Linux, could you perhaps give us a little encouragement?

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 03:08 PM

It will do all that you have listed except your database for I don't know what programs you use to build it in. Was it Microsoft Access?

I am talking to you now on my notebook with Linux, I watch my youtube video's and load my create my youtube video's from this notebook. I also create my DVD's from this notebook all using unbuntu linux. Great story, I was having trouble with my old digital camera finding a vista driver for it. I plugged it into this notebook and Linux said. Hey you just plugged in a digital camera should I download your photo's for you. There is a lot of smarts built into the operating system. If your F&A database is microsoft access then you will have to redo it in one of the many linux software that is available to you.

any help I can give you just let me know. I build software, Mainly Java apps

Dan

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 03:16 PM

it is particularly nice for a notebook. I have centrino wireless on this, I had to do nothing to make it work, after I installed the OS it said hey here are your wireless connections. No software drivers to find .. nothing just worked... I have not had a single issue in all the times that I have used it. Nor have i had a virus issue. Because you can't have one ... cool stuff.

there is just so much open source things for you to use for home. I even found a great one for star gazing with my telescope. Nice platform for home especially if you pay bills online like I do . I switch my home platform after my spyware on windows expired and someone got my credit card on windows. that is not going to happen to me again for sure

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: treewind
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 04:02 PM

Michaelr:
It's not often installed on PCs when you buy them - there was a time when Microsoft refused the huge discount on Windows pricing if the supplier xin't install Windows i-on every PC sold - but they're not allowed to do that now.

The Asus EEEPC (a tiny sub-notebook) was originally available only with Linux; now on higher spec versions you can have Linux or Windows XP. Dell are selling PCs with Linux pre-installed, and there are some suppliers that specialize in selling PCs with Linux installed, of the the best example I know of is Linux Emporium in the UK.

But it isn't hard to install, and if you want to hedge your bets and you have some disk space to spare you can convert a windows PC to a dual-boot system easily.

Adobe Illustrator? Don't know what that is, but there's a probably a free software equivalent.

Pro Tools? There's numerous free audio applications of which the most ambitious is Ardour, a complete mutitrack DAW. You can also get a whole Linux distribution packages and optimised for audio and other media production called 64studio

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 04:06 PM

And to add what Treewind said, every single bit of it is absolutely free, Isn't open source wonderful :-)

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 04:09 PM

By the way, the dang Chess Game. It beats me every single time. Now I use to think of myself as a pretty good chess player ... ahhh wrong. that darn thing supplied in ubuntu playing against the computer.
It whips me every single time

sadly

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: Reinhard
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 04:19 PM

Using Linux or MacOS is no safeguard against viruses. You won't have any of the myriads of Windows viruses hatching on your hard disk; but modern Web 2.0 malware runs in your browser just by innocently visiting an infected or malicious website - regardless of the operating system you use. So you always have to stay alert when you use the Internet.

Of course it is a matter of habit but I do believe one can work comfortably without Windows. I have done so all my life, with commercial grade Unix at work and with a Mac and a Ubuntu Linux netbook at home. Even my niece who grew up with Windows now happily uses the Linux netbook I gave her for chatting and in school.

Sadly the Linux world is disturbed by religious wars about which of the many available Linux variants should be used. (Well that isn't much different from recent dicussions here with some people ranting but not willing to listen.) Personally, I do like olddude's recommendation of Ubuntu Linux which I regard as easy to install and best fitted for Multimedia usage. Susanne, I can do all the things you mention just ouf of the box.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: treewind
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 04:36 PM

Key difference about viruses and malware:
Linux is designed to be routinely usable as an ordinary unprivileged user. You only need root privileges to install software or make important system configuration changes, and you can do that by supplying the necessary password just to run that one program to do the installing or changing.
Windows has always been hard to use without giving yourself administrator privileges, which you have to do by logging in as an admin-enabled user, and then everything that happens on it is run in privileged mode and it's trivial for malware to install things in the operating system where they can do the most damage and/or take control of your PC.

Yes, you still have to be careful in Linux, but usually the sphere of influence of downloaded malware is restricted only to your data files. (what do you mean, you didn't have a backup?!!!...)

Of course there are sneaky ways for clever hackers and script kiddies to get root access to a Linux box, but such activities will never be on the scale of millions of infected Windows PCs worldwide being at the beck and call of spam-generating overlords just because their owners opened a dodgy email or clicked on a link on a web page somewhere.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 05:03 PM

All of the above is true, You still have to be careful regardless of the OS based on the sites you visit. It is like going to the rough side of town with money hanging out of your pocket. If you like to visit a smut site or some other normally bad website you are asking for trouble, but is it highly unlikey you are going to see a keyboard logging trogan unless of course you want to put that one on yourself and give the root password freely out for everyone to have. But one thing people are not going to send an email that is going to corrupt the Kernal as in windows. Nothing is 100 % safe but it sure is far "safer" by leaps and bounds. Especially those who don't keep their anti virus software up to date on windows, or like to pass around humorus emails with embedded spyware. I do not know of a single person who is running unbuntu that had problems with either virus or spyware. Nor do I know any at the university that have been using it since it came out. If a person is careless, regardless of the OS they can have problems but it is sure better technically to do your work with this then Vista I think, And most CS people would agree

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 05:33 PM

I'd be interested in Linux, except that the two most important programs I use are niche market programs, which don't and never will, I think, have a Linux version available. They are Windows-based. One MAY have a Mac version available, but I don't think so.

And don't tell me what I know, that it's possible to have two different OSs on your computer. That would be a bummer, having to power down on one OS and power up on another in order to use the niche market program, and reverse the process in order to use the Linux system and programs.

Not to mention the filling up of HD real estate attendant on having two separate OS universes on the computer.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: folk1e
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 05:41 PM

I am thinking of installing Linux ...... I already use Firefox.
There does not appear to be any easy explanation of the strong and weak points of the different distro's though! Ubuntu is the preferd distro of olddude ..... but why, and what are the alternatives? If you can run emulators why bother with dual boot setups?

Confused of Manchester.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: Reinhard
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 05:59 PM

The Wikipedia article Linux distribution describes and compares popular Linux distributions.

Ubuntu is described as "Ubuntu focuses on usability... The Ubiquity installer allows installing Ubuntu to the hard disk from within the Live CD environment without the need for restarting the computer prior to installation. Ubuntu also emphasizes accessibility and internationalization, to reach as many people as possible...
The most recent version of Ubuntu comes installed with a wide range of software including an older version of the OpenOffice.org productivity suite, the internet browser Firefox, the instant messenger Pidgin (formerly known as Gaim), the BitTorrent client Transmission, and the raster graphics editor GIMP."

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 06:56 PM

Well
there just seems to be so much that i use on Unbuntu that it completely fits my home needs. Anything I do at home including recording is on this notebook. I also don't do the dual setup, to me it is one or the other. My office is all windows vista or XP. My servers are Windows 2003 advance server and some are Linux . I run both flavors for my software development. For home use, I don't see how you can beat unbuntu for how easy it is to use or install new software. Perfect for my needs and I probably do much more than most home users will

just my opinion. Heck I don't care what people use as long as I am not the one that has to clean up the viruses. I have been telling my friends to go this way since it makes sense and there has been nothing that I need that I can't get or is already there in unbuntu

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 08:06 PM

Windows has always been hard to use without giving yourself administrator privileges, which you have to do by logging in as an admin-enabled user, and then everything that happens on it is run in privileged mode and it's trivial for malware to install things in the operating system where they can do the most damage and/or take control of your PC.

It's easy enough to have separate accounts on your PC with Windows XP that don't have administrator privileges. Would there be any advantage in using one of them most of the time, and only changing over to a back-up one with administrator prvil4eges on the rare occasions when I need to exercise them?

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 09:01 PM

McGrath
still won't help you much, too many open holes in windows, good thinking however but sadly that won't help much at all. The operating system is just way too open. I could get into a whole bunch of technical stuff but trust me it just isn't secure and the only way really is to have a very good antivirus software always up to date

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 09:14 PM

Also if you are buying antivirus I really like Mcafee total protection suite, that thing is pretty nice, the firewall it has is far superior than what windows gives you. It has the anti virus, anti spyware, anti spam monitors email ect ... I took off symantic and went with mcafee. Most of my corporate users all have mcafee also to protect their networks.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: gnomad
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 05:29 AM

I had a laptop of modest resources running WindowsMe, about 12 mths ago I found that AV companies had pretty much dropped that as a supported system, it was also probably in need of a clean re-install to have a proper cleanout and get it running better, in fact usability was just about down to zero. I decided to investigate Linux, that the non-geek press were just starting to talk about.

I read a bit, and tried live CDs for one or two distributions (distro's or flavours as I soon learned to call them) and eventually plumped for installing Ubuntu, mainly because I could find plenty of info on how to proceed. Being no techno-wizard I was still quite apprehensive, but the installation went fine, and the machine now sits by my bed, running much better than before. I haven't done anything very technical on it though I have done some recording and word processing, plus the obvious surfing & e-mailing.

If you fancy a go at Linux you could do worse than follow a similar pattern, though you might choose a different distro there being literally hundreds of them. Many are available as live CDs, you burn a CD, load it into the drawer then reboot, this enables you to run the system from the CD to see whether it works with your hardware, and whether you actually like what the distro offers. Live Cds seem to run a bit slower than the installed version of the same distro, but they give a good idea whether you will find the install useful. The beauty of this method is that you have changed nothing on your machine unless you choose to install, if you decide not to proceed just shut down and remove the CD, when you restart you will be back with Windows or OSX and no harm done.

http://distrowatch.com/ is a constantly updating site where you can find a huge range of distributions to fit the most obscure needs. One that is getting a lot of attention is Mint, an Irish take on Ubuntu which is claimed to be even easier to install. Adding programmes and removing them is generally tidier than with windows, and I haven't found one yet that wanted to charge for software I wanted.

Some distributions (such as Puppy, and Damn Small Linux) will run in tiny amounts of RAM, so if you have an old machine gathering dust in a cupboard this could be a candidate for a make-over.

Altogether I am very glad I took the plunge.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: Tootler
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 11:36 AM

I am typing this on an Acer Aspire One netbook which came with Linux installed.

The Linpus Linux Lite on the Aspire One seems to have had some bad press for being somewhat "inadequate" but is fine for the netbook. There is an excellent user forum plus a blog which has all sorts of info. As a result I have been able to install the GIMP and VLC media player as well as upgrading to Firefox 3 and Open Office 3 and once I got the hang of it, the process was all straightforward.

What I have noticed in particular is how much quicker everything runs than with Windows. Even though the AA1 has a slower processor and less RAM than my desktop PC with WinXP, the AA1 generally runs much quicker.

The AA1 is not suitable as a main computer - too small but its small size is very useful. I took it to South Africa when I visited my brother in the autumn. Its small size was very handy - I could easily carry it in my hand baggage, but I was able to put photos on both to take out and take home. All in all, an excellent little computer.

I have an old laptop and I am planning to use it to try another flavour of Linux. I have downloaded ubuntu and have burnt it on to a CD ready to install.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: treewind
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 05:04 PM

"If you can run emulators why bother with dual boot setups?"
There's emulators and emulators.

WINE is free and lets you run Windows programs under Linux, but while it's getting very smart lately, it doesn't guarantee that any and every Windows program will work.

VMWARE lets you run an actual Windows operating system (licensed and paid for) as a guest task under Linux by creating a software "Virtual machine". It works brilliantly and is very stable and reliable, but it costs quite a lot of money. It will even let you run several Windows machines at once (even different versions of Windows) if you have enough memory.

There are free virtual machine programs but I don't believe they are anything like as capable as VMware.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 12:06 PM

by the way if you choose to download unbuntu
make sure you select the desktop and NOT the server edition. The server addition is only if you are creating and deploying your own websites and running a web server. My big raid servers are using the server edition and my other big servers are using Windows 2003 advanced server. the server version of Unbuntu is NOT for the non technical user the desktop is for your home use and does not require an understanding of Linux to install and use.

Dan

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 07:42 PM

Thanks to all of you for some very helpful info! I hope this thread goes on for a while.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 10:57 PM

Oh by the way way, on my linux box I have installed an anti virus called Clam ... with a gui front end. It is also free. The main reason for doing so is so I don't pass a windows virus on via email. It is pretty difficult for someone to nuts up Linux but it is possible to receive an email with a virus that doesn't affect you but when you send that funny joke on to a friend ... bam they get it since they are not using Linux. Hence for me I run anti virus on my Unbuntu linux to not pass them around. Also my linux boxes talk with my Windows network and I don't want to pass one on to my windows server (which does have the lastest antivirus installed. the sooner a windows virus is stopped the better for the rest of the world and ultimately us also)

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: Tootler
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 02:49 AM

make sure you select the desktop and NOT the server edition.

It was the desktop version I downloaded. I had no use for the server edition. Thanks for the warning anyway.

I have burned a CD which is sitting on my desk by the windows PC waiting for me to get a round tuit!

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 11:57 PM

OK, so my stepson is taking computer science in college, and wants to convert all our computers to Linux. How do we go about it? What risks would that present to us? What programs will we NOT be able to run?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: olddude
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 12:44 AM

I can understand why Joe, As a former Computer Science professor we use Linux in every course. Without knowing what you normally do at home it is hard to answer Joe. The safest thing is to do this, download and burn a CD of Unbuntu Linux, Then boot your home PC with the disk. Don't intall, You can live test Unbutu on your home machine from the CD without changing a thing on your computer. This way you can see how it looks and feels for you and also how it runs on your PC. If you like it, then you can install. My office is a complete mix. I have 4 big servers running, two are Linux, two are Windows 2003 Storage Server R2. Each Server has over 900 gig of storage and all servers talk to each other. So Linux fits with Windows in a Server mix just fine . At home I just use Linux. As far as programs go there is almost nothing that you can't get for Linux free that you buy under Windows so it works really good at home. But the safest thing is to do the live test run that I described first.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 07:13 PM

Well, olddude, this is really exciting. I'm not ready to use Ubuntu on my Vista computer because of a number of programs I have to have, but I ran it from a CD and it was remarkable (but took about 3-1/2 years to load). My stepson and I installed it on his computer (keeping Windows XP on a separate partition), and it's working just grand. It recognized our Airlink 101 USB wireless connection, and connected to our wireless network without a problem. It also was able to connect to our HP printer through the network.

Two questions:
Can we run the DOS version of the Digital Tradition?
Do you really think we need no antivirus software?

We downloaded the desktop edition at http://www.ubuntu.com/

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: treewind
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 08:03 PM

You might be able to run the DOS version of DT under DOSEMU.

You don't need antivirus software but it helps to have a firewall and sensible security precautions.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: olddude
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 08:30 PM

Joe,
if you go to add remove programs, type virus scanner
that is an anti virus software front end to Clam (linux anti virus), you really don't need it but I use it to prevent me sending a virus to my friends using windows. A virus can come in that won't hurt you, but you could pass it along by forward an infected email.

Also for a firewall,   under add remove, type firestarter if you so wish. I use it on my servers but not on my home PC, ports are not wide open on Linux like they are on Windows so on my home PC no I don't use it, on my server yes I do

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Tootler
Date: 14 Feb 09 - 08:23 PM

I have just loaded linux on to my desktop computer. I downloaded ubuntu and burned a cd.

I selected the "install inside windows" option and it installed fine and I am typing this in firefox running under linux.

This is a very convenient way to get a dual boot system. I am unlikely to completely abandon windows in the medium term as I tutor part time for the (UK) Open University and I need Windows to run their on line marking software - the OU will only support windows. I also have a small number of windows programs which I find very useful so the dual boot setup suits me for the time being.

I have not fully tested ubuntu yet - I only installed it yesterday - but first impressions are good. I was able to install gparted and repartition my hard drive so I can copy data files on to a fat32 partition so that linux can see them and I can edit them and that went fine. I have firefox 3 and Open Office 2.4 (That needs updating) plus a useful looking collection of utilities.

My long term aim is to get away from windows completely as since getting an Acer Aspire One netbook with linux has made me realise how sluggish windows is. Also there is the security issue.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 08:19 PM

OK, so this thread sold me on Ubuntu, and we have one computer running Ubuntu now and operating very nicely, thankyouverymuch.
So, I got sold on Ubuntu, and I thought it would be a good way to rehabilitate the old Windows 98 laptop as a spare for the Women's Center.

Alas, Ubuntu required 256 MB of RAM, and the laptop has only 64 MB. Is there another Linux GUI that will run on64 MB of RAM? What I want is a computer for WiFi Internet and word processing.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 10:40 PM

(note for those who might be Googling.. It is *Ubuntu* as in Joe's posts...not UNbuntu. I suppose Google will find it and correct you anyway, but it is good to know.)

I have 3 different CDs of Linux to experiment with. Ubuntu, Knoppix & Mandriva. Wow, there sure is a lot to learn.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 11:53 PM

Bill, will Knoppix & Mandriva work on 64 MB of RAM?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Gurney
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 02:39 AM

I've been giving it thought for a while. This computer has two HDs fitted inside, but both jumpered 'Master' because one of them has a virus I can't remove, so it has the power plug pulled.
My ultimate plan is to fit the power connection with a double-pole, double-throw switch, to give me Linux on one HD, and XP on the other.
There are two positives going into HDs, one of them carrying considerable amperage.
If I have to power down to change distros, one WILL be powered down.

I'd like to solicit comment on the switch idea.

The magazine APC (Australian PC) usually has at least one, sometimes two, varieties of Linux on every coverdisk.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Gurney
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 02:42 AM

OldDude, one of my coverdisks has ubuntu 6.0.6 LTS DESKTOP on it. Is this current?

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: treewind
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 02:52 AM

Look for an older version of almost anything (Red Hat or Debian, perhaps) to run in 64Mb.

I did have Debian going in 48Mb once. Forget about Open Office with that little memory, but Abiword might be OK - again an older version will be smaller. Forget about compatibility with Office 97 - there's any Windows software that could do that in 64Mb either.

Finding a low-memory desktop and window manager is the key. There used to be lots, but now everybody's got enough memory to run the latest Gnome or KDE you'll have to dig a bit to find them. They are probably still available even on current distributions. Blackbox, for example, is in Debian Etch.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Carol
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 03:59 AM

I'm hoping to treat myself to a notebook today that has Linux installed - after reading the thread I'm a lot happier about not paying a lot more money for a Windows notebook. all I want it for is to check my emails and do a bit of silver surfing whilst we're away in our (very small) campervan. It looks like I can use my 3 broadband dongle on it as well. I've been downloading 'fixes' onto my memory stick - I just hope i can transfer them onto the notebook!!
'Cos I'm not very technically minded.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 06:32 AM

Joe - you may find these pages from Wikipedia a useful starting point
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puppy Linux.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damn_Small_Linux.
The wiki articles have links to the official web sites for each programme plus other related info.
I haven't used them, so don't know what the pros and cons might be or how easy or difficult to configure, but they are free and they are small. I assume that once installed you will have the option of downloading and adding extra software to improve usefulness.

Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 06:48 AM

A different issue not related to Joe's query, so a separate posting.

I have just discovered THIS (Portable Ubuntu).
It is a version of Ubuntu Linux which is bundled in a piece of software which alows it to run within a MS Windows Desktop. It doesn't install anything on the Windoze machine, simply runs from a folder which can be on a hard drive, or a USB plug in, so you can take it with you and use with a different PC.

I haven't had time to properly play with it, but ran it yesterday and it downloaded Linux games and ran them whilst I was in Windoze.
It seems worth checking out if you want to try out Linux, but do not want to lose your Microsoft programmes.

Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 08:51 AM

Anahata

There are VMware products that are free. You can user VMware server to build your virtual machine and run it. Alternatively, once you have built the virtual machine, you can use VMware player to run the virtual machine (although you have to uninstall VMware server to do this). VMware player runs lighter and is easier to use than VMware server. One advantage of the virtual machine is that you can take copies of it. If your Windows virtual machine gets infected, just overwrite with a saved snapshot and away you go again.

VMware will run on either a Linux or Windows platform and will host either a Linux or Windows guest. I've installed on a Linux host so that I can address more RAM, that means I can use huge amounts of RAM for Linux and up to the maximum addressable by Windows XP 32 bit(which is either 2 or 3GB, can't remember offhand). Doing it the other way means less RAM available for both Windows and Linux.

vmware server

vmware player

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: olddude
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 11:29 AM

unbuntu version 8.10 is what i run
has everything I need and I never had a crash or a virus problem

you can download and upgrade free

thanks
Dan

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: olddude
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 11:47 AM

I just this minute upgraded to version 9.04
just go to system - update manager
at the top of the window click upgrade to 9.04

it will take about 5 minutes and will upgrade you to the latest release you cannot hurt anything and will not lose anything

you will then be current

thanks
Dan

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: olddude
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 12:08 PM

if you get stuck or have any question just email me at
[e-mail]

I will be happy to answer them. You may also want to download using the application manager a program called firestarter
this is a pretty nice firewall, not necessary but I use it. I also use clam antivirus only and I mean only because it is possible to pass a virus on to a windows user. Linux is much more secure and not really much of an issue for linux users.   Also I use Vista and XP at my office because all of my clients are windows based. At home I strickly use Linux and since I switched a few years ago my life has been much better since my family doesnt infect my machines with their emails with laughing babies or dog cartoons with imbedded viruses from their friends

cool stuff it just works

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 07:54 AM

apart from still using Win98 SE SP2 & IE 5.5 (because somesurfers still have them & I maintain websites).

The one thing I have been wary of is the mountain of VBA I have developed to maintain my data and Micr$oft aren't always compatible with itself, and that is just within Excel (recorded macros don't always work).

Claimed compatibility is claimed more in hope than fact. I tried Google aps and the one they recommend for macros and that fails at the first hurdle. De-bugging on-line is not the way to do it. And I don't want to re-do 10 years of cleverness.

My experience with old Open Office apps was that you could (say) hide a worksheet in Open Office which was transparent to Excel in many ways but still existed in others. And was a problem only solved with VBA in Excel, more by experience than from any Help file.

But I may try via a Virtual instance of Linux using VMware in XP. Any warnings?

So how good is open office on VBA generated on MS apps?

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: olddude
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 08:01 AM

Get the lastest download of open office. The one that comes with unbuntu is dated. My macros for excel work good with it. Give it a try and see if it all works for you

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 06:40 PM

I guess I'm convinced that Ubuntu, which requires 256 MB of RAM, is not going to work on my laptop with 64 MB. How about other Linux packages, like Puppy Linux or DSL (Damn Small Linux)?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: GUEST,Geoff the Duck
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 08:36 PM

Joe.
The "cut down" Linux distributions such as Puppy or DSL ought to work on your low spec computers. That is part of the purpose of them.
What you cannot expect to find is all the whistles and bells which can run on newer higher powered computers.
If you have the means to back up the old computer, and to reinstall the original Win98 set-up from scratch - I would give the low-spec Linux a try, and if they do not suit what you need, you can reinstall your previous Widows.
What have you to lose? As long as actual documents are saved off the computer, you can't lose anything you really need.
If you bought new computers with Vista on them and new versions of Microsoft Word and the like, they probably wouldn't open any of your earlier Microsoft documents anyway. You could get better compatability using Linux
Quack!
Geoff.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: GUEST,guest_olddude
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 10:58 AM

Joe
DSL will run but I am not sure what you will be able to do with resources that small. It maybe time to scrap it that is very limited for sure.

Dan

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Gurney
Date: 08 May 09 - 03:27 AM

Well, I've been playing with Ubuntu 6.06 for a few days, and I will persist, but it isn't all that simple to a child of the windows generation -I started with Amiga computers- but I have found:

Everything has a different name, you have to keep looking things up

Firefox browser is very clunky. the pionter moves jerkily. When you scroll down, it keeps scrolling (slooowly) to the amount that you moved the wheel, which is probably further than you wanted to go, so you have to scroll back up, and you go too far again, so....
Opera works much more smoothly on Ubuntu, and Firefox works much more smoothly on XP. Same computer.

Your printer may not have a driver, and if it has, it may not automatically unpack and install. Command lines.

You have to type in two identifications every time you boot. Irritating.

There are good websites, though. But they are not as easy to navigate as this one.

I downloaded the latest version. 4.75 hours. Now if only I can work out how to load it! Seems I'll have to make a boot-disk, if I manage to understand the language.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: treewind
Date: 08 May 09 - 05:29 AM

"Everything has a different name, you have to keep looking things up"
Yes, there's not a lot you can do about that.
Also some concepts are so different that there aren't exact equivalents, and both systems have things that are easier to do on one than the other, or require a quite different approach to achieve the same goal.

"Firefox browser is very clunky. the pionter moves jerkily."
That's not a generic Linux problem. It's absolutely fine here. You might not have the right graphics driver - I've had funny mouse and graphics effects when the

"You have to type in two identifications every time you boot."
Not usually. You should need to log in only once, and if your system is physically secure you can choose automatic log in and not have to log in at all.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: olddude
Date: 08 May 09 - 08:50 PM

Oh get Unbuntu version 9 ok, 6.6 is pretty outdated
Thanks
Dan

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Gurney
Date: 09 May 09 - 12:32 AM

Yes, Anahata, my motherboard has a driver even on Windoze, and some programs don't work perfectly without it installed. Obviously optimised for Microsoft. I'm not currently using a graphics card, it died, just using the onboard. Still, Opera works better, and it's the browser that I use most, anyway.
The boot invariably demands my UID, and again if I want to install or change anything. Obviously a setting.

Dan, I did download 9.0something, tediously, but as I said, it didn't install, but suggests that I make a bootfloppy. "Old bios' need one." Wouldn't have thought of a 2.6 as old, myself.
I could, of course, BUY the latest disk.
Chris.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: olddude
Date: 09 May 09 - 08:51 PM

Gurney
PM me your address and I will send you a CD that should work for you
ok

thanks
Dan

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Gurney
Date: 10 May 09 - 12:14 AM

That is kind of you, Dan, and typical, from your posts, but I live in New Zealand. I'd prefer that you spend the $6+ postage on your good works. Better spent there. I'm only trying out Linux, just for the reason that you outlined in the thread title, I have XP, and some months to go on my anti-virus. Thank you for the offer.

I'm pretty sure that the trojan I had came with a freeware download. Serves me right, it's not the first time, you'd think I'd learn, and other platitudes.
I'm also pretty sure that I'd need special drivers to get Linux working well with this motherboard and keyboard, not to mention the printers and scanner (I can't even get an XP driver for that!)

The official Ubuntu site offers CD postage as an alternative to downloads. I looked in the local bookshop today, and there were coverdisks with three flavours of Linux. Not Ubuntu.
Regards, Chris.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Gurney
Date: 10 May 09 - 01:48 AM

I just checked on our local equivalent of Ebay, -TradeMe,- and there are several copies of 9.04 and 9.06 for a peppercorn price, obviously from enthusiasts promoting it, as they are encouraged to do. The cheapest was NZ$4.50, about US$2.70.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: robomatic
Date: 10 May 09 - 03:09 PM

just wondering why olddude keeps writin' it with the "un-" when the correct name is "UBUNTU"

is there a message there or simply a carry-along typo?

just curious, olddude

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: terrier
Date: 10 May 09 - 05:31 PM

One thing I've found using Ubuntu, I don't have the control over my monitor that I had in Windoze. I don't have a graphics card in my PC and the brightness and contrast are out of my control, as I'm typing this,it's like staring at a search light :( Is it just a case of me fitting a graphics card or is there something in Ubuntu I've missed. Other than that, so far so good.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: olddude
Date: 10 May 09 - 09:02 PM

I don't know why I do that either, My fingers want to put the un I guess like the United Nations or something like that ... I use the thing every day and still put the UN in it ... go figure maybe I should join the UN .. LOL

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: robomatic
Date: 11 May 09 - 08:59 PM

I'm just afraid that by some mental quirk you'll have me 'un'doin' it,too!

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 May 09 - 02:55 AM

Not a particular Ubuntu fan myself, in part as I prefer the KDE desktop to (there is KUbuntu btw but it never feels as well integrated to me as my chosen OpenSuse) Gnome.

My own suggestion is to try a few and find what suits you best. I'm certainly not in the camp that considers someone a twit if they find they do prefer say Ubuntu and Gnome, or perhaps Fedora, etc. to my choices but with so much free,trying different distributions is easy and you might find the one that feels the best fit to you. To me, it's about freedom and choice on this.

--
Other personal reason for me liking OpenSuse is I get on well with the Yast interface. To give one negative, I do have some unease about the Novell/MS business.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 May 09 - 03:33 AM

Robomatic. My own preference with graphic cards is nVidia. Some will object because they insist on closed source. They do tend in my experience to just work though and I've failed getting things like 3d going on Via and ATI... For me on this one, a practicality overrules a principle.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: GUEST,Matt yer Hacker
Date: 12 May 09 - 11:13 PM

I've had the good fortune to set Ubuntu 8.10 and 9.04 on a Dell D610 - works brilliantly, with reasonable control over almost everything. The one thing that doesn't work is, of course, Skype - the camera drivers aren't playing nice. But that's a relatively minor annoyance. It also has closed-source wireless card drivers (Broadcom 4318) but fwcutter does a very good job of detecting and auto-installing the card while the machine is on and connected to the wired network.

I'm quite pleased with it.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Gurney
Date: 14 May 09 - 02:33 AM

Just installed Ubuntu 9.04, and Firefox works perfectly, as it didn't with 6.06. It even underlines misspelled words and words it doesn't know, like Ubuntu. And misspelt, which I had put in deliberately.

Must find the spellchecker and add some.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 03:01 PM

So, I have a Windows 98 laptop wiht 64 MB of RAM, and I'm experimenting with Damn Small Linux and Puppy Linux.

The first of my problems was creating a bootable CD, since most Windows CD burner software packages won't do it. We finally succeeded by using my stepson's computer, which has Ubuntu.

Puppy Linux was intolerably slow on the CD drive, so I installed it on the hard drive while still booting from a CD. It worked pretty well, but I can't get the Internet browser to stop crashing or freezing.

So, now I'm trying DSL. I get a lot of action at first, but then things stop at this line:

xauth: creating new authority file /home/dsl/.xauthority

Any advice what to do next?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Simon G
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 03:42 PM

Joe

There are plenty of tools to write iso images to CD, here is a command line one

http://isorecorder.alexfeinman.com/CreateCD.htm

The xauth problem looks like a problem writing to the file system, there is similar problems norted in the DSL forum from 2006 but they are noted as fixed.

I'm sure you don't want yet another Linux distribution. I'd expect Xubuntu to work in 64MB and the distribution is bang up to date.

http://www.xubuntu.org/

Enjoy

Simon

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Jul 09 - 11:26 PM

Oh, I may well try Xubuntu, Simon. Thanks for the suggestion. I got past the boot-up problem with DSL by tweaking the video settings, but then I couldn't get it to recognize my PCMCIA wireless card, which Puppy Linux did recognize.

So, we'll keep working. I have to admit I have an ulterior motive - my stepson is working with me on this, and it keeps him from being a total couch potato this summer vacation.

This certainly isn't working as easily as it was to install Ubuntu on five-year-old equipment with lots of RAM and hard drive space, but it's an interesting puzzle and we're learning a lot.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: GUEST,Matt yer Hacker
Date: 19 Jul 09 - 01:06 AM

The trick to any Unix-like OS (of which Linux is one) is to remember that almost everything is run by config files, which are in text format. If you make copies of original config files and use gedit or vi to edit them, you can experiment to your heart's content and eventually get things to work. Well, configuring stuff and googling for options that aren't documented....

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??
From: Simon G
Date: 19 Jul 09 - 04:44 AM

Linux's single biggest problem has always been recognising and dealing with the myriads of different devices. Ubuntu seems to have manage that better than most distributions. For your wireless card you may need to search for a device driver.