Tech: A case against Viruses - Linux??

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: gnomad
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 05:29 AM

I had a laptop of modest resources running WindowsMe, about 12 mths ago I found that AV companies had pretty much dropped that as a supported system, it was also probably in need of a clean re-install to have a proper cleanout and get it running better, in fact usability was just about down to zero. I decided to investigate Linux, that the non-geek press were just starting to talk about.

I read a bit, and tried live CDs for one or two distributions (distro's or flavours as I soon learned to call them) and eventually plumped for installing Ubuntu, mainly because I could find plenty of info on how to proceed. Being no techno-wizard I was still quite apprehensive, but the installation went fine, and the machine now sits by my bed, running much better than before. I haven't done anything very technical on it though I have done some recording and word processing, plus the obvious surfing & e-mailing.

If you fancy a go at Linux you could do worse than follow a similar pattern, though you might choose a different distro there being literally hundreds of them. Many are available as live CDs, you burn a CD, load it into the drawer then reboot, this enables you to run the system from the CD to see whether it works with your hardware, and whether you actually like what the distro offers. Live Cds seem to run a bit slower than the installed version of the same distro, but they give a good idea whether you will find the install useful. The beauty of this method is that you have changed nothing on your machine unless you choose to install, if you decide not to proceed just shut down and remove the CD, when you restart you will be back with Windows or OSX and no harm done.

http://distrowatch.com/ is a constantly updating site where you can find a huge range of distributions to fit the most obscure needs. One that is getting a lot of attention is Mint, an Irish take on Ubuntu which is claimed to be even easier to install. Adding programmes and removing them is generally tidier than with windows, and I haven't found one yet that wanted to charge for software I wanted.

Some distributions (such as Puppy, and Damn Small Linux) will run in tiny amounts of RAM, so if you have an old machine gathering dust in a cupboard this could be a candidate for a make-over.

Altogether I am very glad I took the plunge.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 09:14 PM

Also if you are buying antivirus I really like Mcafee total protection suite, that thing is pretty nice, the firewall it has is far superior than what windows gives you. It has the anti virus, anti spyware, anti spam monitors email ect ... I took off symantic and went with mcafee. Most of my corporate users all have mcafee also to protect their networks.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 09:01 PM

McGrath
still won't help you much, too many open holes in windows, good thinking however but sadly that won't help much at all. The operating system is just way too open. I could get into a whole bunch of technical stuff but trust me it just isn't secure and the only way really is to have a very good antivirus software always up to date

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 08:06 PM

Windows has always been hard to use without giving yourself administrator privileges, which you have to do by logging in as an admin-enabled user, and then everything that happens on it is run in privileged mode and it's trivial for malware to install things in the operating system where they can do the most damage and/or take control of your PC.

It's easy enough to have separate accounts on your PC with Windows XP that don't have administrator privileges. Would there be any advantage in using one of them most of the time, and only changing over to a back-up one with administrator prvil4eges on the rare occasions when I need to exercise them?

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 06:56 PM

Well
there just seems to be so much that i use on Unbuntu that it completely fits my home needs. Anything I do at home including recording is on this notebook. I also don't do the dual setup, to me it is one or the other. My office is all windows vista or XP. My servers are Windows 2003 advance server and some are Linux . I run both flavors for my software development. For home use, I don't see how you can beat unbuntu for how easy it is to use or install new software. Perfect for my needs and I probably do much more than most home users will

just my opinion. Heck I don't care what people use as long as I am not the one that has to clean up the viruses. I have been telling my friends to go this way since it makes sense and there has been nothing that I need that I can't get or is already there in unbuntu

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: Reinhard
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 05:59 PM

The Wikipedia article Linux distribution describes and compares popular Linux distributions.

Ubuntu is described as "Ubuntu focuses on usability... The Ubiquity installer allows installing Ubuntu to the hard disk from within the Live CD environment without the need for restarting the computer prior to installation. Ubuntu also emphasizes accessibility and internationalization, to reach as many people as possible...
The most recent version of Ubuntu comes installed with a wide range of software including an older version of the OpenOffice.org productivity suite, the internet browser Firefox, the instant messenger Pidgin (formerly known as Gaim), the BitTorrent client Transmission, and the raster graphics editor GIMP."

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: folk1e
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 05:41 PM

I am thinking of installing Linux ...... I already use Firefox.
There does not appear to be any easy explanation of the strong and weak points of the different distro's though! Ubuntu is the preferd distro of olddude ..... but why, and what are the alternatives? If you can run emulators why bother with dual boot setups?

Confused of Manchester.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 05:33 PM

I'd be interested in Linux, except that the two most important programs I use are niche market programs, which don't and never will, I think, have a Linux version available. They are Windows-based. One MAY have a Mac version available, but I don't think so.

And don't tell me what I know, that it's possible to have two different OSs on your computer. That would be a bummer, having to power down on one OS and power up on another in order to use the niche market program, and reverse the process in order to use the Linux system and programs.

Not to mention the filling up of HD real estate attendant on having two separate OS universes on the computer.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 05:03 PM

All of the above is true, You still have to be careful regardless of the OS based on the sites you visit. It is like going to the rough side of town with money hanging out of your pocket. If you like to visit a smut site or some other normally bad website you are asking for trouble, but is it highly unlikey you are going to see a keyboard logging trogan unless of course you want to put that one on yourself and give the root password freely out for everyone to have. But one thing people are not going to send an email that is going to corrupt the Kernal as in windows. Nothing is 100 % safe but it sure is far "safer" by leaps and bounds. Especially those who don't keep their anti virus software up to date on windows, or like to pass around humorus emails with embedded spyware. I do not know of a single person who is running unbuntu that had problems with either virus or spyware. Nor do I know any at the university that have been using it since it came out. If a person is careless, regardless of the OS they can have problems but it is sure better technically to do your work with this then Vista I think, And most CS people would agree

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: treewind
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 04:36 PM

Key difference about viruses and malware:
Linux is designed to be routinely usable as an ordinary unprivileged user. You only need root privileges to install software or make important system configuration changes, and you can do that by supplying the necessary password just to run that one program to do the installing or changing.
Windows has always been hard to use without giving yourself administrator privileges, which you have to do by logging in as an admin-enabled user, and then everything that happens on it is run in privileged mode and it's trivial for malware to install things in the operating system where they can do the most damage and/or take control of your PC.

Yes, you still have to be careful in Linux, but usually the sphere of influence of downloaded malware is restricted only to your data files. (what do you mean, you didn't have a backup?!!!...)

Of course there are sneaky ways for clever hackers and script kiddies to get root access to a Linux box, but such activities will never be on the scale of millions of infected Windows PCs worldwide being at the beck and call of spam-generating overlords just because their owners opened a dodgy email or clicked on a link on a web page somewhere.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: Reinhard
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 04:19 PM

Using Linux or MacOS is no safeguard against viruses. You won't have any of the myriads of Windows viruses hatching on your hard disk; but modern Web 2.0 malware runs in your browser just by innocently visiting an infected or malicious website - regardless of the operating system you use. So you always have to stay alert when you use the Internet.

Of course it is a matter of habit but I do believe one can work comfortably without Windows. I have done so all my life, with commercial grade Unix at work and with a Mac and a Ubuntu Linux netbook at home. Even my niece who grew up with Windows now happily uses the Linux netbook I gave her for chatting and in school.

Sadly the Linux world is disturbed by religious wars about which of the many available Linux variants should be used. (Well that isn't much different from recent dicussions here with some people ranting but not willing to listen.) Personally, I do like olddude's recommendation of Ubuntu Linux which I regard as easy to install and best fitted for Multimedia usage. Susanne, I can do all the things you mention just ouf of the box.

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 04:09 PM

By the way, the dang Chess Game. It beats me every single time. Now I use to think of myself as a pretty good chess player ... ahhh wrong. that darn thing supplied in ubuntu playing against the computer.
It whips me every single time

sadly

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 04:06 PM

And to add what Treewind said, every single bit of it is absolutely free, Isn't open source wonderful :-)

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: treewind
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 04:02 PM

Michaelr:
It's not often installed on PCs when you buy them - there was a time when Microsoft refused the huge discount on Windows pricing if the supplier xin't install Windows i-on every PC sold - but they're not allowed to do that now.

The Asus EEEPC (a tiny sub-notebook) was originally available only with Linux; now on higher spec versions you can have Linux or Windows XP. Dell are selling PCs with Linux pre-installed, and there are some suppliers that specialize in selling PCs with Linux installed, of the the best example I know of is Linux Emporium in the UK.

But it isn't hard to install, and if you want to hedge your bets and you have some disk space to spare you can convert a windows PC to a dual-boot system easily.

Adobe Illustrator? Don't know what that is, but there's a probably a free software equivalent.

Pro Tools? There's numerous free audio applications of which the most ambitious is Ardour, a complete mutitrack DAW. You can also get a whole Linux distribution packages and optimised for audio and other media production called 64studio

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 03:16 PM

it is particularly nice for a notebook. I have centrino wireless on this, I had to do nothing to make it work, after I installed the OS it said hey here are your wireless connections. No software drivers to find .. nothing just worked... I have not had a single issue in all the times that I have used it. Nor have i had a virus issue. Because you can't have one ... cool stuff.

there is just so much open source things for you to use for home. I even found a great one for star gazing with my telescope. Nice platform for home especially if you pay bills online like I do . I switch my home platform after my spyware on windows expired and someone got my credit card on windows. that is not going to happen to me again for sure

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 03:08 PM

It will do all that you have listed except your database for I don't know what programs you use to build it in. Was it Microsoft Access?

I am talking to you now on my notebook with Linux, I watch my youtube video's and load my create my youtube video's from this notebook. I also create my DVD's from this notebook all using unbuntu linux. Great story, I was having trouble with my old digital camera finding a vista driver for it. I plugged it into this notebook and Linux said. Hey you just plugged in a digital camera should I download your photo's for you. There is a lot of smarts built into the operating system. If your F&A database is microsoft access then you will have to redo it in one of the many linux software that is available to you.

any help I can give you just let me know. I build software, Mainly Java apps

Dan

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 02:47 PM

I need a new computer so I've just been asking around and learnt that Acer Extensa 5230 comes without a pre-installed operating system. Which would be nice. I use Firefox and Thunderbird anyway, and Open Office sometimes.

But like Michael I'd like to be reassured about particular problems: whether Ubuntu will enable me to watch and burn CDs and DVDs, look at YouTube clips etc. My biggest worry is my F&A database programme, but as far as I know that doesn't run on anything younger than Windows 98, so I'll probably have to rebuild my databases in the OpenOffice software.

Olddude, as you seem to know a lot about Linux, could you perhaps give us a little encouragement?

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 02:42 PM

There are free add on programs that will do the same for you as adobe and a pile of recording tools. Dell is now allowing the option of unbuntu on notebooks when they are purchased. But for me instead of upgrading a windows xp to vista ect I download unbutu and installed it. I have recording software on my home machine and just about every tool for photo enhancement you can imagine. the GIMP image editor is nearly a carbon copy of photoshop only with more tools .. its free also. Most all education facilites and government development offices all use Linux because it is far more secure

If you have an old machine around, I would suggest giving it a try. All the computer manufacturers have a deal with Microsoft hence we get windows all the time. For my home use however, I use Linux , I got sick of anti virus issues and spyware a long time ago. I can burn you a CD if you need one, the download takes quite a long time

Subject: RE: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: michaelr
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 01:57 PM

I keep hearing about Linux, but where does one get the machine that has it? I've never seen a computer for sale that wasn't Mac or Windows.

The other question is, Can it run Adobe Photoshop/Illustrator? Can it run recording programs such as Cakewalk or Pro Tools?

Subject: Tech: A case against Viruses
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 01:42 PM

Well being and old IT guy for the last 35 years, just about once a week a friend will call me and it usually goes like this. "Hey Dan, my computer is nuts up, I think I have a virus". Or I get, someone stole my credit card info and what a mess.    Ok, something to think about. What does a normal home user need.   My list would be
1) be able to surf the web
2) do email
3) use my digital camera
4) use a webcam
5) write my book with a word processor or make a slide show presentation, listen to music, view video's ect ...

Which comes to my point. For a Home user, think UNBUNTU LINUX
1) it is free and technically under the hood it is a superior operating system then any flavor of Windows
2) OPEN OFFICE is free, it supports all windows formats yet gives you a word processor, power point presentation, excel and the whole nine yards of Microsoft office, FREE
I know many major corporations that are now using open office instead of Microsoft office (which costs 400 bucks a pop)

Unbuntu Linux - NO viruses, NO spyware, NO antivirus software to worry about. Evoluation mail (far superior to outlook express or Outlook for that matter)

In order to get a bad program on Linux, you have to put it on yourself, you are not going to Catch it from the net ..

Firefox web browser that comes with it,   Far superior than Internet Explorer.

Moral of the story, at my office all my PC's are Windows based because my clients are Windows based. AT home I use Linux, I don't have to worry if my anti virus anti spyware is up to date cause I can't get anything that will mess up the machine or compromise my security when paying bills online.

Navigation, just as easy to use Linux as with Windows, actually easier than Vista by many factors.

Speed, much much faster than windows

Downside - NONE

Think Unbuntu Linux instead of Windows for home use and avoid all the headaches that comes with virus and spyware and all the other bad stuff out there.