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should the BBC folk awards be scrapped

The Sandman 10 Feb 09 - 11:01 AM
terrier 10 Feb 09 - 11:06 AM
Mr Happy 10 Feb 09 - 11:15 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 10 Feb 09 - 11:26 AM
Tim Leaning 10 Feb 09 - 11:35 AM
wyrdolafr 10 Feb 09 - 11:46 AM
LesB 10 Feb 09 - 11:50 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 10 Feb 09 - 12:04 PM
Rifleman (inactive) 10 Feb 09 - 12:04 PM
Folknacious 10 Feb 09 - 12:12 PM
The Borchester Echo 10 Feb 09 - 12:13 PM
The Villan 10 Feb 09 - 12:17 PM
greg stephens 10 Feb 09 - 01:00 PM
greg stephens 10 Feb 09 - 01:01 PM
peregrina 10 Feb 09 - 01:01 PM
TheSnail 10 Feb 09 - 01:06 PM
GUEST,Derek Schofield 10 Feb 09 - 01:25 PM
Tim Leaning 10 Feb 09 - 01:31 PM
The Sandman 10 Feb 09 - 01:37 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 10 Feb 09 - 01:37 PM
Folkiedave 10 Feb 09 - 01:50 PM
TheSnail 10 Feb 09 - 02:17 PM
Joe Offer 10 Feb 09 - 02:28 PM
The Sandman 10 Feb 09 - 02:35 PM
Jack Blandiver 10 Feb 09 - 02:45 PM
Rifleman (inactive) 10 Feb 09 - 03:39 PM
peregrina 10 Feb 09 - 03:47 PM
Folkiedave 10 Feb 09 - 04:11 PM
Folkiedave 10 Feb 09 - 04:13 PM
Jack Campin 10 Feb 09 - 04:20 PM
BB 10 Feb 09 - 04:24 PM
BB 10 Feb 09 - 04:35 PM
Dave Sutherland 10 Feb 09 - 05:50 PM
GUEST,Edthefolkie 10 Feb 09 - 05:53 PM
Richard Bridge 10 Feb 09 - 05:56 PM
Eric the Viking 10 Feb 09 - 06:08 PM
Howard Jones 10 Feb 09 - 06:19 PM
steve_harris 10 Feb 09 - 06:53 PM
Folknacious 10 Feb 09 - 07:54 PM
Jim Carroll 11 Feb 09 - 03:35 AM
Stu 11 Feb 09 - 03:58 AM
Dave Sutherland 11 Feb 09 - 03:58 AM
Betsy 11 Feb 09 - 04:04 AM
le cheffie 11 Feb 09 - 04:09 AM
The Sandman 11 Feb 09 - 04:13 AM
The Borchester Echo 11 Feb 09 - 04:13 AM
The Borchester Echo 11 Feb 09 - 04:18 AM
GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow 11 Feb 09 - 05:22 AM
Banjiman 11 Feb 09 - 05:43 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 11 Feb 09 - 05:57 AM
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Subject: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 11:01 AM

what is their purpose?is it to promote folk music,or folk revival performers? or both.
are competetitive awards the best way to promote folk music .
should competitions be given air play?


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: terrier
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 11:06 AM

What is their purpose? Entertainment, I guess. If there's enough good feedback from listeners then maybe the competitions will be given more airplay.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Mr Happy
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 11:15 AM

Lately, the Beeb's had a penchant for airing time fillers such as 'Celebrity?? Come Dancing & on ice'

Perhaps next'll be 'Celebrity?? Come Folking'?

Not sure how well they'd do on ice tho......


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 11:26 AM

Ummmmmmmm . . . to cause fights at Mudcat?


;-)


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 11:35 AM

Well as one who only ever watches stuff by accident.
I must admit to never having seen the awards all the way through.
I gather from the threads here about them it raises the temperature a little for some.
As far as I know it is only held once a year,therefore will watch it with a veiw to possibly enjoying it for what it is to me.
That is a chance to see some performers that I wouldnt normally bump into down at me local,hopefuly performing something I am not familiar with to a good standard.
I like the Jim Moray song that someone put alink to on a previous thread.
Even if I were good enough a performer,and my music could pass for folk,I wouldnt put myself forward for anything like that.
SO good luck to all who want to be involved and well done to all those who already are.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: wyrdolafr
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 11:46 AM

I can't see the point in scrapping them. The division created by these awards is that those who aren't keen appear to feel they're not representative of particular aspects of a/the 'folk' scene. Those that are generally supportive of them obviously feel they reflect at least some aspect.

Therefore, it seems to me that the issue isn't so much whether they should exist or not, but more should they be expanded in some way in order to cover areas that perhaps some feel aren't that represented.

Also, if a few more categories/awards were introduced, there maybe less chance of the same names getting more than one award - which is always contentious no matter what the competition. When a couple of people win 4 of only 11 awards, it does make it look as if there's 'less going on' and 'unrepresentative' - even if they are actually deserving of the awards. That's an observation rather than a criticism before anyone starts reaching for the nearest pitchfork and burning torch!


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: LesB
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 11:50 AM

Anything is preferable to nothing.
Cheers
Les


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 12:04 PM

Ummm...I think I *might* be allowed in this one, as it's not a 2009 thread, Joe? :0)

She tippytoes softly to the keyboard...and......

No, they shouldn't be scrapped, just made to encompass far more performers, be far more inclusive, and have no 'radar' in them whatsoever.

They're a huge boost for the folk world, and the more popular they become, the more people will want to hear the music, and they'll be far more performers who'll be able to make a living doing something they love. And nope, I have no problem about people making a living out of folk/traditional music.

They just need to make them fairer, broader and wider, for all concerned, because there are one helluva lot of great musicians out there who are way overdue for a mention/nomination/award in the Folk Awards.

They also need to put the Awards on BBC 1, not hidden away in the vaults somewhere else. They should also *heavily* advertise it on Radio 1 and 2.

And Dick, I disagree with you totally about workshops, I'm afraid. That's not the way forward at all, imo.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 12:04 PM

If some of you want to be involved , fair enough. I've stated elsewhere what I think of such things, I've no need to repeat myself.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Folknacious
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 12:12 PM

No, certainly not.

They have helped a lot by getting mainstream recognition/ coverage/ publicity for the music.

I never agree with all the winners, but so what?


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 12:13 PM

the more popular they become, the more people will want to hear the music

Distinct absence of logic here.
Pop Idol and associated dross is very popular on network television.
But it wouldn't matter how many times I watched it (which I don't).
I still wouldn't like it.
The Folk Awards are what they are - an industry showcase and serve that purpose.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: The Villan
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 12:17 PM

I don't see why they should be scrapped.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 01:00 PM

I'm all for them I don't like everything about them, but they can be tweakeds. They get publicity, raise profiles etc. There are some ludicrous anomolaous resauilts from time to time, but that is down to the organisers, not to the principle of awards.
I noticed the Grammys publish the membership list of the voting panel. That would be the single best improvement that could be made to the BBC folk awards. A litle transparency never did anybody any harm.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 01:01 PM

Actually, come tyo think of it, it's the Baftas that publish the list.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: peregrina
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 01:01 PM

Why?





It's not as if they'd be replaced with the workshops you advocate.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: TheSnail
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 01:06 PM

Lizzie Cornish

And Dick, I disagree with you totally about workshops, I'm afraid. That's not the way forward at all, imo.

Ours seem to be very popular. We've got some good ones coming up including Tom McConville (who we booked long before he won his well deserved award).


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 01:25 PM

someone wrote: "When a couple of people win 4 of only 11 awards, it does make it look as if there's 'less going on' and 'unrepresentative' - even if they are actually deserving of the awards."

The BAFTAS have been in the news this week ... one film won several awards ... and the same thing usually happens with the Oscars -- that's the way these things go!

Derek


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 01:31 PM

Would scrapping them make things better?
Apart from maybe leaving the way open for a thread about how awful it is that they were scrapped?


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 01:37 PM

why not scrap them?
they are promoting a competitive element,that is purely subjective,and only reflects the judges[a handful of people] tastes.
most people seemed to be of the opinion,that introducing competitions in the comhaltas style was bad,yet this kind of competition is, ok,sorry that is completely illogical.
if you are against competitions in music,then you should be against the BBC awards.

Martin Simpson and Nic Jones have both recorded Icarus,both are good versions ,their music[imo] does not need a handful of people telling us that one is better than the other,and providing a sort of top ten pop, type, system .
it is not [imo]the best way to promote this music.
the bbc would be better off [imo] concentrating on the roots of the music,and informing its listeners in detail about our traditions ,styles of and history of morris dancing,unaccompanied solo singing,varying regional instrumental styles.,so that the public becomes aware of its heritage and the roots of the heritage .
if you dont water a plant its roots will die .


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 01:37 PM

So, the folk awards are following the same narrow path as the Baftas and the Oscars, then?   :0(

Why do we narrow everything down? A handful of top models in a world filled with beautiful women, a handful of films in a world filled with incredible actors, producers and directors. Why don't the Folk Awards orgainsers choose to lead the way in a whole new outlook? As many Awards as possible, for as many artists as possible, taken from an ever increasing world of amazing artists.




"the more popular they become, the more people will want to hear the music"


"Distinct absence of logic here.
Pop Idol and associated dross is very popular on network television.
But it wouldn't matter how many times I watched it (which I don't).
I still wouldn't like it.
The Folk Awards are what they are - an industry showcase and serve that purpose."


You're missing the point entirely, possibly because you don't want the folk world to become 'popular'? Those who follow Pop Idol *love* the music and the artists. Nowt wrong with that. It's not my music either, but thousands adore it.

Is there something wrong with thousands adoring Folk Music again, as they once did back in the 60s? And as I write this I'm listening to Seth pounding his way through 'The Hurlers', and yup, I can see all those young people, back in The Great Hall of Exeter University, pounding the floor to his music, loving every second of it.

Bring as many artists in as you can, don't keep it narrowed to the same old, same old. Yes, there were a few new names in there this year, but there need to be even more. And it was great to see The Demon Barbers getting 'Best Live Act' because, like Seth, they're bringing in thousands of young people.

Folk Awards becoming 'popular' ?    I can't wait for it to happen!

And no, sorry Snail, your workshops may well be popular, but it ain't the push that the music needs. It will attract a raindrop, as opposed to a flood.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 01:50 PM

Why don't the Folk Awards orgainsers choose to lead the way in a whole new outlook? As many Awards as possible, for as many artists as possible, taken from an ever increasing world of amazing artists.

And hire the Millenium Dome?

The Folk Awards organisers are Smooth Operations. Why not write and tell them instead of saying it on here?

Contact them here.

Let us know how you get on with that sugggestion.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: TheSnail
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 02:17 PM

Lizzie Cornish

And no, sorry Snail, your workshops may well be popular, but it ain't the push that the music needs. It will attract a raindrop, as opposed to a flood.

Floods are made by accumulating raindrops.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 02:28 PM

I would caution you all to keep this a civil discussion - no finger-pointing or idle accusations or anything like that. It's beginning to appear that you Brits are simply not capable of discussion these Folk Awards - or folk music in general - in a civil manner. And to think that we Americans used to look up to you as our civil, cultured ancestors.....

Anyhow, I have to say I don't really understand this issue. Is the essence of the conflict between traditional singers and singer-songwriters, between folk and "folk rock," or between young and old? If you could discuss this issue in a way we Americans could understand, it might keep the discussion on a higher plane.

We had the Grammy awards in the U.S. the other night. I noticed that the next morning's newspaper did not list any of the winners in the folk music categories. Until a year or two ago, we've be able to read about all the categories - folk, polka, spoken word, etc. - in the newspaper, but not any more. The Grammies have folk and traditional categories, and the folk stuff is usually singer-songwriter. The traditional stuff is usually by songwriters, too - but the songwriters are over the age of 50, so it's considered "traditional."

We also have something called "Folk Alliance" in the U.S. It seems to be mostly singer-songwriters, but I know that Art Thieme has been associated with it.

But back to the Folk Awards and related discussions. It does seem that folk music is far more alive in the UK than in the U.S., but I can't imagine it's healthy enough to survive all these battles. The Awards may not satisfy everybody, but at least it's a way to promote an interest in folk music.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 02:35 PM

snail, out of molehills. mountains grow,Bryan, your club has it right.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 02:45 PM

out of molehills. mountains grow

Not strictly true; not yet even proverbially. However, there's always a case of making mountains out of molehills which, I fear, is a perennial difficulty in the folk world.

Like Sun Ra says - either it is or it ain't.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 03:39 PM

"out of molehills. mountains grow"

Well this is most certainly the biggest molehill I ever did see


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: peregrina
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 03:47 PM

'I wish I was a mole in the ground'


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 04:11 PM

Hi Joe,

The Folk Awards are an industry bash, but for various reasons are often a source of conflict.

There is only one music programme on mainstream radio (The Mike Harding Show) and that is subservient to "follow-through" - the idea that it has to retain listeners from before the show to the next show - thus it tends to be bland. I emphasise the word tends because sometimes he strays from that brief.

The programme is outsourced - the BBC do not run it a firm called Smooth Operations does on behalf of the BBC.

Smooth Ops - for short - also organise the annual BBC Folk Awards.

The voting is anything but transparent but supposedly is done by 150 or thereabouts invited industry professionals. Of course they are no such thing - but all of them would have an interest in one form or another. There are two rounds of voting; the first short lists four nominations for each category. The second round vvotes a winner out of those four.

I believe there is a "secret" layer from the industry above this to avoid the problem two years ago when a recently written song actually won the category "Traditional Song".

There is a category for a contemporary song to win (All You Pretty Girls this year).

Arguments this year have been: we shouldn't have competitions; "Pretty Girls" is quite old - 1983 I think; the people presenting the awards made snide remarks about folk music; some artists are thought to be ignored; etc etc.....always loads of scope for arguments.

It seems to me that we UK citizens with the occasional American contribution argue incessantly about the music; most of the arguments between your fellow country men are below the line and are about politics! With the occasional UK contributor.

The shame is that some of the vitriol has driven people with a lot to contribute away from the board. I include one of the UK's best known artists and the Director of one of the UK's largest festivals.

And that is a real shame.

HTH.

Dave


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 04:13 PM


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 04:20 PM

Anyhow, I have to say I don't really understand this issue. Is the essence of the conflict between traditional singers and singer-songwriters, between folk and "folk rock," or between young and old?

At least one of the main problems seems to be that they are run by Smooth Operations, who also run the Mike-Harding-presented weekly programme on Radio 2, the highest-profile media slot in the UK labelled as being "folk music". They are generally despised by the British contributors to the this forum for turning that into a showcase for middlebrow Americanized acoustic-pop mush, so there is a lot of mistrust about any other media circus they might be involved in.

As I haven't listened to a minute of Radio 2 in years, don't have a TV, and would be quite happy to see both Radio 2 and the entire world television industry consigned to the cesspit of history, I find it kinda hard to get excited by this dispute.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: BB
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 04:24 PM

"It does seem that folk music is far more alive in the UK than in the U.S., but I can't imagine it's healthy enough to survive all these battles."

Joe, the battles aren't enacted 'live', just on forums (fora?) like Mudcat. It's only because so many of us are so passionate about the music - trad. or contemporary - that we verbally battle about it. When we do it face to face, it's called "putting the (folk) world to rights", and doesn't get anything like as nasty as it sometimes does on Mudcat.

As to where the essence of the conflict is, i.e. between "traditional singers and singer-songwriters, between folk and "folk rock," or between young and old", the answer is probably 'All of the above' and none exactly. Sorry, I know that's not helpful, but I can see why Americans find it difficult to understand if their concept of 'traditional' is "songwriters... over the age of 50"!

I think sometimes you worry too much about the battles - don't panic. Most of it's down to very few people, and there will always be those who cannot see any other point of view but their own.

Barbara


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: BB
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 04:35 PM

Apropos of what I said above, this, from another thread "I think the key difference between online and real-world is there's much more distance and much more intimacy online - you can spill your guts with confidence, because it feels that much less 'real'." Exactly. You worry too much, Joe. :-)

Barbara


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 05:50 PM

Is there something wrong with thousands adoring Folk Music again, as they once did back in the 60s?
Well we didn't have any Folk Awards back then and there was precious little folk music on the radio in those days too!
For all I couldn't give a rats arse about the awards I wouldn't like to see them scrapped - we'd have one less thing to argue about; and then there is the rare gem like Tom McConville winning something this year.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 05:53 PM

No they shouldn't be scrapped, in spite of my flippant remarks about flaneurs on the other thread. Ms Easby hit the nail on the head about what the awards are actually for. I also don't think that SmoothOps are the devil incarnate as painted by certain folks.   

It would be nice to see the awards on TV though, the BBC could use Woss's unpaid three months worth of salary to do a series of 10 programmes in Hi-Def. Then there'd still be lots of spare cash to resuscitate the aborted documentary on Sandy Denny.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 05:56 PM

I think it would be nice if there was an industry showcase and a roots (or current performances of roots) showcase - without sarcasm.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 06:08 PM

I think it should all (Awards, winners and loosers etc)be settled on "Strictly come morris dancing" A new show going to be launched on prime time TV on a Saturday night.Simon Cowell, Maddy Prior and Martin Carthy to be judges, presented by Mike Harding with Andrew Lloyd Webber giving advice.Music by Show of Hands.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Howard Jones
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 06:19 PM

Dave S, there may have been "precious little" folk music on the radio in the 60s, but what there was accurately reflected the folk scene - by the late 60s when I started to take an interest, "Folk on Friday" presented by the great Jim Lloyd presented mainly British, mainly traditional material.

I think this, and related threads, reflect the frustration that many feel that the only folk programme on the national radio network, and the only high-profile folk awards, are of little interest to the very people who are most involved in presenting and performing folk music.

I used to delay going out to my local folk club until I had listened to Folk on Friday. Now I hardly ever bother with Mike Harding's show, and when on occasion I do catch it, it only confirms that I am right to ignore it.

The folk awards, MH's show and Smooth Ops are what they are. There's nothing wrong with what they do, the problem is they're the only show in town.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: steve_harris
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 06:53 PM

No, they shouldn't be scrapped, just made to encompass far more performers, be far more inclusive, and have no 'radar' in them whatsoever.

Absolutely, Lizzie!


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Folknacious
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 07:54 PM

"the only high-profile folk awards, are of little interest to the very people who are most involved in presenting and performing folk music."

Why wouldn't they be interested in Jackie Oates, Chris Wood, the Demon Barbers, Lau, Tom McConville or the Black Swan Folk Club, or be pleased that they've won an award from our national broadcaster? And are none of the above involved in presenting or performing folk music?

Ah, but I see, you're sad its not still the late 60s and the BBC isn't still broadcasting Folk On Friday. Unfortunately there's not much any of us can do about it being 2009 and the fact that there's a new and rather good generation of dedicated younger artists.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 03:35 AM

"the BBC isn't still broadcasting Folk On Friday........ there's a new and rather good generation of dedicated younger artists."
Resolve this contradiction and you have the answer to WHAT the BBC SHOULD be doing rather than holding vacuous award ceremonies.
If you have decided that "there's not much any of us can do about it " then you've thrown in the towel.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Stu
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 03:58 AM

No they shouldn't be scrapped.

But as I said (and was roundly ignored on the Mockery thread), take a look at Clare FM and their programming to see how folk music should be presented. Relevant to ordinary players, singers, dancers and storytellers, not to mention Joe Public (no relation to Joe Offer). Award ceremonies are industry-driven, for the industry, and not particularly relevant to the players who are out week after week in the community (except for the the Young Folk awards, which is an excellent showcase for raw talent).

We need something else with authentic people can relate to. The Kitchen Sessions provide the blueprint for this format.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 03:58 AM

Howard as you correctly say Folk on Friday came in, like a breath of fresh air, at the end of the sixties and after much moaning from the folk fraternity regarding the lack of traditional British folk music on BBC. Prior to that we had to suffer the likes of "Country Meets Folk", "My Kind of Folk", "A Cellar Full of Folk" and "Kinda Folksy" among others. To listen to what was reflective of the national folk scene one had to explore the bowels of the Third Programme or Home Service for some crumbs which were broadcast either when you were at a folk club or at work!
I listen to "Folkwaves" over and above the Harding programme these days.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Betsy
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 04:04 AM

There is plenty of scope to mirror the Film /Acting or Pop Music or Boxing ? industries.

They all have different forms of Awards

Film /Acting - Oscar / BAFTA / Tony and others

Pop Music - Grammy ,MTV and Varous music paper awards

Boxing - World Champions in 3 different organistions.

So we arrive at the Mudcat Folk awards ( both sides of the Pond ).
When the winners are announced ,people will say that's a load of shite because Mudcat wouldn't let me vote because I'm not a Member (Just thinking ahead Joe )and we're back to the same old discussion - who and how were these R-Soles voted as winners.

Seed planted Joe - whaddya think ?

Cheers

Betsy


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: le cheffie
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 04:09 AM

Radio 2 frequently boast Live music on a lot of theri programmes, but hhey seem to churn out the same heavily promotoed mainstream pop artists.
Wouldn't it be good if they could promote some folk artists on day time radio and not leave them to the obscurity of mid wednesday evening or late night bbc4

As for the awards I haven't listened to them for years as I'm usually at work and can't be bothered to sit at the pc for two hours to catch up during the following 7 days

Nick


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 04:13 AM

my argument is this.
that this is not the best way to present folk music ,either on radio or television .
second point, I consider this sort of presentation second best,I am not prepared to accept second best.

the good as anything we have at the moment argument,is similiar to its good enough for folk ,folk music deserves a more sympathetic presentation ,this competition is not the best way to present and make people aware of the music,I want the best not just any old thing.
I am not interested in revival musicians careers being furthered,I am more concerned about the state of the revival folk scene[programmes like this do nothing to help ]
and also the necessity of people to be aware of the roots of the music.
folk music [imo] would be better served with a more in depth presentation .


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 04:13 AM

folk artists on day time radio

Isn't this what Woman's Hour, R4's folk, roots and acoustic flagship programme, is for?


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 04:18 AM

in depth presentation

Yeah, yeah, a 24-hour digital transmission of trad music.
Why did no broadcaster ever think of this?
Oh, yes they have. Just not here.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 05:22 AM

Joe,

if you look at the original draft of the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson wrote a whole paragraph about the atrocities of George III and the British Folk Personss in the Coffee Houses of the Thirteen Colonies, but Benjamin Franklin got him to leave it out to save on printing costs, on account that it doubled the length of the declaration.

I love these moments. I like to wave at them as they pass by.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: Banjiman
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 05:43 AM

No they shouldn't be scrapped.

Despite the in-fighting they cause on here they have a much greater reach than any other folk outlet. This can only be a good thing.

And Jackie Oates won something this year.... that can also only be a good thing.


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Subject: RE: should the BBC folk awards be scrapped
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 05:57 AM

Sorry Dick you should really stop digging.
If you want more In Depth representation of traditional music. You pay for it. Sure as hell no broadcasting organisation will do it. Not in England anyway. (Maybe Ireland is different).
Of course the Folk awards should stay. Just because you and I don't feature, doesn't make them a bad thing.
It's a minority interest, always has been, always will be.
How many people have contributed to this (and similar) threads...25? 30? 35? 40?
How many people watch Strictly Come Dancing? 5 or 6 million?
Which one is going to get the funding?
I rest my case.


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