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Need tradl Australian songs for women

Kathryn 10 Feb 09 - 11:36 PM
JennieG 11 Feb 09 - 12:47 AM
bfdk 11 Feb 09 - 04:46 AM
Joybell 11 Feb 09 - 05:16 AM
Fred McCormick 11 Feb 09 - 05:25 AM
The Doctor 11 Feb 09 - 05:28 AM
SINSULL 11 Feb 09 - 11:41 AM
GUEST,Callie 11 Feb 09 - 12:38 PM
Joybell 11 Feb 09 - 04:48 PM
My guru always said 11 Feb 09 - 05:43 PM
Kathryn 11 Feb 09 - 05:50 PM
Joybell 11 Feb 09 - 05:52 PM
Kathryn 11 Feb 09 - 05:52 PM
Kathryn 11 Feb 09 - 05:54 PM
Bill D 11 Feb 09 - 05:57 PM
Joybell 11 Feb 09 - 06:18 PM
bfdk 11 Feb 09 - 06:26 PM
Joybell 11 Feb 09 - 07:06 PM
Hrothgar 11 Feb 09 - 07:16 PM
Joybell 11 Feb 09 - 07:49 PM
JennieG 11 Feb 09 - 07:49 PM
GUEST,mg 11 Feb 09 - 07:57 PM
Bob Bolton 11 Feb 09 - 09:36 PM
JennieG 11 Feb 09 - 10:50 PM
mark gregory 12 Feb 09 - 12:58 AM
Joybell 12 Feb 09 - 05:14 AM
The Doctor 12 Feb 09 - 07:24 AM
Nigel Parsons 12 Feb 09 - 08:02 AM
Kathryn 12 Feb 09 - 09:14 AM
Nigel Parsons 12 Feb 09 - 09:34 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 12 Feb 09 - 10:10 AM
Kathryn 12 Feb 09 - 10:23 AM
Nigel Parsons 12 Feb 09 - 10:47 AM
Joybell 12 Feb 09 - 04:16 PM
JennieG 12 Feb 09 - 05:43 PM
Nigel Parsons 13 Feb 09 - 03:55 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 13 Feb 09 - 02:46 PM
Joybell 13 Feb 09 - 04:07 PM
Joybell 13 Feb 09 - 04:20 PM
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Subject: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Kathryn
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 11:36 PM

Do you have suggestions for traditional songs that women can sing? Most Trad Aussie songs are about shearers, sailors, drovers,... well, you get the pictures. Are there some I have overlooked that are more women's songs? (I do have Convict Maid...)
Thanks


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: JennieG
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 12:47 AM

Look in Henry Lawson's poems...."Past Carin'" is a sad but lovely song. There are others too.

Cheers
JennieG


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: bfdk
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 04:46 AM

Martyn Wyndham-Read sings a lovely song called The Water Lily - soundclip here which is a poem by Henry Lawson set to a tune by Herdman.

Bente


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Joybell
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 05:16 AM

Not too many Kathryn but here's my list.
1. Gentle Annie -- sung in 1st person by a man but I sing it anyway.
2. Banks of the Murray -- of the parlor song type - not traditional. Lovely song. Stark and simple about WW1.
3. The Springtime it Brings on the Shearing -- about men but a pretty waltz and not blokey.
4. The Stockman's Last Bed -- another parlor song and sung in the third person.
5. The Maiden's Prayer -- one of the very big group of "Died for Love" songs. Like Butcher's Boy. It's not actually Australian -- it comes from England but it was collected here.
6. Big Poll the Grog Seller -- haven't sung it for years but it's about a woman alright.
I can help with any of these if you can't find them. None of them are traditional but they're all old and have no known authors.
Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 05:25 AM

See if you can trace a book by John Meredith and Hugh Anderson. Folk Songs of Australia and the Men and Women who sang them. Published by Ure Smith, Sydney. 1967.

You can find more songs from John Meredith's collection on a double CD called Sharing the Harvest; Field Recordings from the Meredith Collection in the National Museum of Australia.

Also, you would want to check anything you can find by Sally Sloane. Absolutely wonderful singer from New South Wales (I think), with a considerable number of English and Irish songs. Larrikin Records issued an Lp of her many years ago. So far as I know it's never been reissued on CD, but I did hear a rumour that someone once issued a cassette of her.

The idea that the Australian tradition consisted entirely, or even primarily, of songs about roustabouts and shearers is somewhat mistaken.


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: The Doctor
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 05:28 AM

Martyn W-R also produced Song Links, contrasting English songs and their Australian variants. On there are 'The Banks of Claudy', 'Lovely Nancy', 'The Wee One', 'Barbara Ellen' and 'The Lost Sailor', while 'The Banks of the Condamine' is a duet for man and woman.
In Great Australian Folk Songs are 'The Colonial Widow', 'The Convict Maid' (also on Martyn's Ned Kelly and all that Gang), and 'The Lost Sailor', as well as numbers 3, 5 and 6 listed above.
There will be others, but apart from some where the gender is very specific, and even some of those, I've always felt that if you like a song you can sing it.


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 11:41 AM

Kitty Kane is modern but traditional in flavor.


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: GUEST,Callie
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 12:38 PM

Chloe and Jason Roweth have recorded a number of Sally Sloane songs and other "trad" women's songs.

www.rowethmusic.com.au


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Joybell
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 04:48 PM

A small comment about the songs sung during the 19th century here in Victoria that may help --
I was singing at a folk festival in Central Victoria. I'd given myself the label (As you need to do when applying) that was something about 19th Century American Parlour Songs. I was placed in the Australian Folk Music Concert. I found that I fitted in fine. All the older singers and musicians sang the same songs. My connections with the Cornish Association also bear this out. Our families have been here since the goldrush of 1852. Stephen Foster and Henry Clay Work might as well have been family.
This doesn't help with finding songs that sound Australian to audiences but it helps with our understanding.
Let me know if you want the "Banks of the Murray", Kathryn I've recorded it. I got it from the singing of Alan Musgrove.
Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: My guru always said
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 05:43 PM

Scrubbing the Miner's Clothes by John Warner is also modern but has a great slant on mining!


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Kathryn
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 05:50 PM

I love Scrubbing the Miners Clothes!! I am singing in a place that can only let us sing traditional songs or songs we ourselves wrote. Wish I could write, but since I can't, I need some new (make that very old) material...


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Joybell
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 05:52 PM

Terms may matter if you are presening a study of some kind. If it's a collection of songs you like to sing then it's up to you. My personal collection is called, "Joy's Favourite -- Old, Very Old, and Extremely Old -- Songs.
I mention this because, for example, Henry Lawson's work is not traditional but it is Australian. Barbara Allen is traditional but it's not Australian.
Are you looking for Australian Womens' songs for pleasure or study, Kathryn?
Also are you near any of us? Many of us have big collections of books and other material. Sydney? Melbourne? Regional city?
Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Kathryn
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 05:52 PM

Oh, and answer me this: The Water Lily mentioned above. The words are in the public domain, but the tune?
I love copywright law...


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Kathryn
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 05:54 PM

Well, Joy, our posts must have crossed...
I wish I were living near to y'all. I'm in the States.


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 05:57 PM

Phyl Lobl is an Australian songwriter/singer. She has many songs on her site..some will full sound files.


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Joybell
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 06:18 PM

That says a lot. How do they define the term "traditional" I wonder? Do they restrict it to Australian Traditional?
If they'll allow "Anon" as traditional -- you've got more scope. (I wouldn't but I wouldn't be running anything under those rules).
I'd say -- act innocent. Sing anything that's not actually written by anyone still alive and smile a lot.
And --- yes -- I'm on a roll here -- if it has to be Australian --sing anything you like from anywhere and say it was collected here. It probably was anyway. Keep singing, Kathryn -- all the songs you love anywhere you can get away with it.
Send me a PM if you want to explore our resources.
Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: bfdk
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 06:26 PM

Re: The Water Lily, sorry, I can't answer that, but I'm pretty sure Martyn can. Contact details are on his homepage, drop him a mail. He's a very friendly and helpful person!


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Joybell
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 07:06 PM

Ahhh Well at least I won't have upset someone running a folk club here. So your interest is in presenting Australian songs to American audiences. That helps with suggestions.
My husband is American so we're bi-cultural in our household as it were.
I'll send you a PM and an email address. Our collection is at your disposal and it might be easier that way. I could send you the CDs of ours that have a few unusual Australian songs on them.
Nice to meet you, Kathryn.
Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Hrothgar
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 07:16 PM

Very few traditional Australian women's songs - we kept them in their place in the old days. (Ducks, runs, begs for mercy)

Lots of good modern ones from John Warner, Judy Small, et al.

Peace.


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Joybell
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 07:49 PM

Not Ducks on the pond any more -- but Hrothgar's right.

The modern songs won't be allowed though. You are getting into a niche market in the States and the possibilities beyond this one club might be worth thinking about.

I saw myself there for a while -- as a young woman wading through songs about sheep and all. The women did sing songs and so did the kids but they were imported songs from "home" and songs from sheet music sent from America -- and from the touring minstrels and other singers. We came here too late -- the roots are in other countries.

Back to the question.
"Wallaby Stew"
is a comic song from the music-hall. It's a disfunctional-family song. (They loved it on the Greyhound going through Arizona.) Which brings me to the suggestion that you copy off the Aussie glossary here on Mudcat. This song and many others are full of national and regional words and phrases.
Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: JennieG
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 07:49 PM

In the old days women were too busy running the farm, shearing the sheep, droving cattle, bearing and rearing children, putting out bushfires, etc. to sing about it!

Cheers
JennieG


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 07:57 PM

Can't really help other than to check out Priscilla Herdman's CD's..was it the Drover's sweetheart that said Jack's dog thank God it's Jack..I never thought I'd faint before he's coming down the track..I think those are among the best lines every written in a song...She put beautiful tunes to Henry Lawson poems like that.

Also, could someone think about writing a song about the Devery Hotel near Ayres rock I think. They were an interesting and well respected couple from King's COunty Ireland (I think he was at least)...I have some sort of news article..had a huge family, ran this hotel, helped out all the wandering workers...

They could be my distant relatives..not sure...was it Alice Springs perhaps? Anyway, she died of a horrible cooking accident. mg


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 09:36 PM

G'day Kathryn,

I'm not too sure ... and I'm at work, so I can't check until I get home ... but I think the best known tune to The Water Lily is Priscilla Herdman's. She set a lot of Henry Lawson songs ... and is well represented in Chris Kempster's Songs of Henry Lawson (which has just been re-published in an expanded edition).

On another tack, I published (for the Bush Music Club) a small booklet of Sally Sloane's songs - assembled as "Australian songs for women". I must say that even this small book includes a number of songs that are more "men's songs" than "women's songs" ... but they are all songs Sally sang in her long and tuneful life. If you PM me a current email address, I'll send you PDFs of a selection that may suit.

Phyl Lobl has written a number of great songs from a woman's perspective (as well as great songs that work for blokes ... including one that was based on a woodturner's use of his craft to do the wooing he was not skilled in ... based on words and skilss of a friend I had suggested ... and often sung by me in memory of my Dad ... to whom it applies just as well!) I'll check Phyl's books and records, all of which are on my shelves and see if anything there fits the bill. One series Phyl wrote were the result of interviewing women on the remote and bleak west coast of Tasmania ... and crafting songs about how they made do ... and prospered. There are quite a few that bring back aspects of my time in Tasmania.

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: JennieG
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 10:50 PM

Phyl's "Woodturner's love song" is one of my party pieces, it's a lovely song.

Cheers
JennieG


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: mark gregory
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 12:58 AM

One of my favourites is 'The Female Rambling Sailor' which was collected from a wonderful singer Catherine Peaty in Victoria

It on the Australian Folk Songs website at http://folkstream.com/102.html

Another great traditional singer Sally Sloane gave us The Wee One ... is it a woman's song or a man's ... like many folksongs the voice the story is told in doesn't allow us to say for sure.

I think one of the best recorded versions of Lawson's 'Do You Think That I Do Not Know' is Sonia Bennett's on the Songs of Chris Kempster CD see http://chriskempster.net/
it was written as autobiographical by Lawson but certainly the woman alluded to is a big part of the story!


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Joybell
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 05:14 AM

I don't believe "The Wee One" can be in any way be heard as anything but a song about a betrayed man.
... with this weeping and wailing and rocking the cradle and rocking a baby that's none of my own...

then there's ... my wife's on the rantan..

Clearly it's a man speaking. Lovely song though.

I'm careful where I sing it (without changing it) because sometimes women see it as funny. Imagine this in reverse -- if men laughed when you sang a song about an abandoned woman. I don't reckon pain is gender specific. Anyway lovely song.
Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: The Doctor
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 07:24 AM

'The Water Lily' was recorded by Martyn on his Emu Plains LP/CD, with Priscilla Herdman's tune, and the credits say 'published by Panache Music'. 'Barbara Ellen', which I referred to before, is on Song Links as an Australian version of the song, taken from a version by Jack Lawlor of NSW. It starts 'In Dublin I was reared and born, in Dublin I was dwelling', so it is most likely originally British, but the sponsor notes say that Cathie O'Sullivan, the singer, learned it from Sally Sloane, and it incorporates a few interesting local changes, like 'drinking at the Royal'. It's also linked, via the last verses, to a 2000 year old legend from Han China.


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 08:02 AM

'Waltzing with Sheila!'


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Kathryn
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 09:14 AM

Waltzing with Sheila? That is sung by a woman?


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 09:34 AM

It will be if I ever get past the chorus (Written on reading this thread!)

Waltzing with Sheila, Waltzing with Sheila,
Who'll come a-Waltzing with Sheila and me.
As our blokes at the bar knock another round of tinnies back,
Who'll come a-Waltzing with Sheila and me.


Cheers
Nigel


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 10:10 AM

Could be some confusion there Nigel.

Is the song being sung by the Sheila named Sheila, by the other Sheila, a third Sheila muscling in on the action, or a bloke, singing about his Sheila, while his work mates carouse at the bar?

G'Day Sport
Don T.


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Kathryn
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 10:23 AM

I'm so confused...


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 10:47 AM

Don:
Definitely to be sung by a Sheila, not a Bruce!

Once a jolly swagmen pushed through the bar-room door
Up to the bar right quickly went he
Then he heard a whine, coming from the dance floor
Who'll come a-Waltzing with Sheila and me?

Waltzing with Sheila, Waltzing with Sheila,
Who'll come a-Waltzing with Sheila and me?
As our blokes at the bar knock another round of tinnies back,
Who'll come a-Waltzing with Sheila and me?


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Joybell
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 04:16 PM

Every Sheila can relate to that!
as in
Sheila = generic name for Aussie female.

No it won't be a bloke dancing with his girl while his mates drink. It'll be a Sheila with no male willing to dance instead of bonding with his mates.

Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: JennieG
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 05:43 PM

I HATE (and thoroughly dislike, as well) being referred to as a sheila. I have a name.

Cheers
JennieG


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 03:55 AM

JennieG; You would not appreciate the UK car insurance firm which arranges insurance for women only Sheilas' wheels

Cheers
Nigel


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 02:46 PM

He's right Jennie!

But you would get a HUGE kick out of upsetting all the men for miles around with video of the bloke in a dress that also features in it.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Joybell
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 04:07 PM

Sheila doesn't seem to be used much any more except as a sort of quaint expression from the past. I agree with Jennie. I've always disliked it. Interesting that off-hand I can't think of a song or poem from the past, otherwise full of quaint expressions, that uses it.

"...When me and me Maudie goes out for a stroll..."
"'er name's Doreen ....
"... walking out with me fair dinkum tart". (a compliment at the time)
More recently there's "The Sheryl Song" A parody of "Me and Bobby McGee" You'd expect it there but she gets her own name.

Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Need tradl Australian songs for women
From: Joybell
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 04:20 PM

An aside about blokes in dresses:
Recently I was about to organize a local concert. All the different groups and clubs in the area were to be involved. I made a point of coming up with a restriction I wanted to place on the footy club. I was going to tell them, "Please think of something except blokes in tutus. We've all seen that so often." I could have added that for me it's been about 60 years since I first saw that act -- football ballerinas -- and it shows no sign of going away or getting any better either.
Cheers, Joy


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