BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Sawzaw
Date: 14 Feb 09 - 12:07 AM

LH:

You raise a very interesting point about money. The amount of money in circulation increases every day.

Obviously it is printed up by the government with no real backing other than "the full faith and trust of the US government", so it is worth less as more is printed up, but just how is it put into circulation?

I have my own ideas but I am wondering how other people think it is done. Not a trick question.





It disgusts me the way real estate keeps going up, at least before the recent bubble. Real estate agents keep hyping the prices up and appraisers keep inching up their appraisals based on what some agent managed to shooze someone into paying.

Perhaps if the Gov quits counterfeiting it's own money the inflationary price spiral would slow down or stop.

One thing about this Porkulus bill that bothers me is that it will cause inflation somewhere down the road, not too far down the road, that will more than erase whatever gains if makes, if any.

It is nothing other than spending money that we don't have and does not address the root of the problem, people who cannot pay their mortgages.

The government(democrats, republicans, white yellow, pink, male, female, gay, straight, whatever) allowed this to happen and did not regulate financial institutions effectively. Now it looks to me like they are screwing up again, even worse while they posture and blame each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 10:43 PM

Hitler had no place in this thread. A poster brought him into it--needlessly--then made a questionable statement. Quite a few Mudcatters read history--and are passionately interested in it--and in facts.   Therefore if a poster makes a rash statement about history, he may be called on to defend it.

Easy way out:    think before you post.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 04:50 PM

I bet every state tries to get every last federal dollar they can. That's what every department and every paid individual in a big company always does, after all...they all try to get the biggest allotment of funds possible from the management...they all try to get more than they did last time. It's a basic motivation of personal gain built into the whole competitive system, after all, at every level.

You have "won" the game if you succeed in getting more money from the higher-ups. You're a "loser" if you don't. ;-)

And where does that eventually lead? If there always has to be more money for everyone, where does it come from? Does this provide any clue as to why the dollar itself is worth a good deal less in real terms with every passing decade?

If you doubled the number of dollars in circulation over a period of time, a dollar would then become worth half as much in real goods. That's what has been occurring.

How has most of the money been created? Through the creation of debt. It was created when a bank made a loan to a person or a company or a government...and the bank didn't give them any real money. No, they gave them a piece of paper, a certificate which stated that they had just been loaned a supposed amount of money that never existed at all except ON that piece of paper. And they also charge interest for the loan. That further enlarges the supply of imaginary money that must appear on the basis of the loan, all created in the form of debt.

The pieces of phony paper fly back and forth, they all get deposited in bank accounts, the interest charges mount up, the bank gets rich on the interest, the amount of imaginary money in circulation keeps increasing exponentially, and the worth of your real physical currency to buy anything decreases in the inverse ratio to the growing supply of imaginary money, and it was all created through debt.

Lending institutions (and many irresponsible borrowers) did it. Governments allowed them to do it. Governments are themselves among the biggest debtors in existence, so the largest banks have them at their mercy, as it were. They also have the general public at their mercy.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Peter T.
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 04:44 PM

Reading these responses, you would think nothing has been learned in the last eight years at all. Government is bad, and tax cuts are some magic pixie dust.   Next we will be hearing that sex education is a bad thing and leads to dancing, and intelligent design was responsible for male nipples.



yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 04:28 PM

I understand what you're saying about the difference between federal and state monies, bb. And to a point, it makes sense to me. Let states decide how much and on what they will spend on their people.

However.

When one state's resources are far, far greater or smaller than those of another one, who is to level the playing field?

Oregon, which I consider a fairly progressive state, has vast discrepancies in the school system, for instance. The amount paid per child in the Jewel area of the Pacific Coast Range is far smaller than the amount spent per child in the cities. In what way is that acceptable?

Alaska, on the other hand, has great resources - and billions in savings - but still pursues the federal dollar as though she were starving.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 03:12 PM

"the amount of money needed in our society." ( I presume you mean to be spent by the Federal Government)


THAT is what we need to decide- IMHO, the liberals have a far larger number in mind than the conservatives.


Bipartisanship does NOT mean that one side accepts the other's demands without compromise. BOTH sides need to have input into the decision before it can be bipartisan.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 03:06 PM

"...follow the lead of JFK, Ronald Reagan and GWB. Cutting individual and corporate income tax and putting a moratorium on capital gains taxes would have been far more successful than the abomination the Congress is about to pass will be." DougR

1. And how does that differ from what got us into this?

2. How much revenue would that generate? Proponents of 'flat tax, for example, grossly underestimate the amount of money needed in our society.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: DougR
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 02:50 PM

Ebbie: A better stimulus plan would have been to follow the lead of JFK, Ronald Reagan and GWB. Cutting individual and corporate income tax and putting a moratorium on capital gains taxes would have been far more successful than the abomination the Congress is about to pass will be. It's a no brainer. To get out of recession, let the tax payers keep more of their own money and they will start buying things. When that happens, more people will be employed to sell build, market, and sell the "things."

Of course Congressional Democrat leadership isn't nearly as interested in arresting the recession as they are passing "pet" bills that they couldn't pass when the Republicans were in the majority. Neither is our new president.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 02:11 PM

"I am sure you are all nice folks, but your cynicism, negativity, and nastiness are disgusting." Big Mick

What more needs to be said?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 12:56 PM

Ron, I have no wish to argue or debate with you about anything at all, and I would prefer never to do so again. I don't care to prove which one of us is right or wrong about anything, I just don't wish to poison my own daily mood by engaging in fruitless verbal one-upmanship struggles of the ego with you. I don't like your attitude. If I could avoid communicating with you at all...about anything at all...and still have the enjoyment of participating in this forum, I would.   

If there was a subroutine to prevent me from seeing your posts on the screen, I would activate it.

Alas, there is not.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Peter T.
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 11:44 AM

There is a difference between a budget surplus and the national debt. Paying down the national debt (which is a mix of things, many of which are long-term investments) is something nobody does much of. Canada -- the gold standard at the moment -- has not had much luck paying down its national debt.

The question of whether national debt is the same as ordinary debt is a huge question that economists fight over all the time.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Sawzaw
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 11:05 AM

On the road to, but not there yet.

The surplus took a wrong turn during Clinton's last years.


Click here


The worst you can say is the Bush failed to turn the increasing budget deficit, inherited from Clinton, around.

Overall it increased about the same during the Clinton years as it did during the Reagan years, about $1 trillion.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Peter T.
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 10:18 AM

Actually, Mudcat awakened on the day it was born a decade ago. This was more or less the days when the United States was on the road to a surplus.....

Another victim of the bipartisanship fiasco yesterday -- Mr. Gregg, having decided that he too wished to do nothing to help the American people, decided to abandon the Obama administration. Given that he is not going to be running again, it is a pity the voters in his state in 2 years time -- when they will be in even bigger trouble than they are now given the pusillanimity of the Congress -- will not have the pleasure of booting him out.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Sawzaw
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 10:38 PM

OBAMA: "When was the last time that we saw a bill of this magnitude move out with no earmarks in it? Not once."

First he promises change.

Then he promises no earmarks.

Then he says earmarks are to be expected.

This is change?

How long before the Mudcat Awakening?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Peter T.
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 10:35 PM

come on, it's not hard to provide an alternative in the bankrupt (literally) Republican world. The most important thing is that individuals must be allowed to make their own choices with their own money -- they are not affected by advertising, or lack of education, or the fact that they are stuck a hundred miles from public transit choices -- no, they are always pure, and are making wiser choices than any collective notion of the public good. Similarly, if they fail because they aren't wise like Wall Street Bankers, or they have health problems, or mental problems they should starve to death, because that is how the jungle works. In the meantime, to bring the economy back, rich people should be given permanent tax breaks and huge bonuses, because of their wisdom which is daily manifest, and also of course, they need this money because otherwise they would have no incentive to innovate. Poor people should not be given money, because they will only waste it on food.   If the poor should get anything, it should be a tax break on their non-existent incomes.   The market is all wise, the rich are all wise, and government of the people, by the people, and for the people, is a crock.

Any other questions?

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 09:17 PM

Facts are available on whether the Germans were willing to "move mountains" for Hitler in 1939. No surprise that the poster would rather rely on stereotypes from Hollywood B-movies.

All it takes is a little care in posting.




And Doug R--your knee jerks before you even sit down at the computer.

While at various times I have defended McCain's foreign policy advisor Scheunemann against the slander of stoking the August 2008 war in Georgia, and I have pointed out that early in her career Palin did stand against corruption in her own party.

And I have been attacked by Mudcatters for both of these.

The difference between me and you is that I believe in facts--not the party line.

Or perhaps you can tell us about liberal stands you have taken.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 07:12 PM

Or do you just want to bitch and moan?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 07:12 PM

OK, DougR. Again: What solution(s) do you favor? To make it easier for you: If John McCain were president, what would you like him to be doing right now?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: DougR
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 06:39 PM

Ebbie: Why in the world would you expect any conservative to wish Obama succeeds if the programs he pushes through the Congress are the antithesis of what you believe is best for the country?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 06:15 PM

"Only a fool (no pun intended Barry) would not be delighted to have our economy improve from the current mess!" DougR

I'm glad to hear that Limbaugh is not one of your brightest lights, but a fool, Doug. He is on record as saying that he hopes Obama fails "because he doesn't like his program."

Does he realize that if Obama fails, the country fails too? And that just possibly Limbaugh will fail too?

I'm glad that you are smarter than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 04:33 PM

Commentary: Obama should have told us the whole sad truth

By Ed Rollins
CNN Contributor


Ed Rollins says Obama came off as likeable but didn't tell the American people the whole sad truth.

NEW YORK (CNN) -- President Obama had his first prime-time news conference Monday, and 60 million viewers tuned in.

They wanted to hear him and see him in action and hope that things weren't as bad as they were hearing every day from the media and in their hometowns.

He was glib, rambling, a little long-winded and very defensive. But he is a talent and very likeable even when he is being serious. And he had plenty to be serious about.

On numerous occasions, he made sure reporters and the millions tuning in knew that he had inherited a mess, the Republicans weren't helping him at all, and things were tough.

After spending hundreds of millions of dollars and traveling thousands of miles over the past two years running for this office, did he think he was going to get the big plane, the big house, the box at the Kennedy Center and Camp David without the heavy lifting? Well, maybe not this heavy a load.

This is a president who has promised transparency. He promised that we as a nation will know what our government is doing and what we are spending. Just go to the Internet, and it will be there. But not quite yet.

The president gave us a lot of rhetoric on Monday night.

Four million jobs will be created or saved, with 90 percent of them in the private sector. He didn't tell us how. Just trust me, and we will get you out of these tough times.

I know a president needs to be a cheerleader sometimes, but right now, I want a truth-teller.

He said, "at this particular moment, with the private sector so weakened by this recession, the federal government is the only entity left with the resources to jolt our economy back to life. It is only government that can break the vicious cycle where lost jobs lead to people spending less money which leads to even more layoffs."

I ask, what resources does the federal government have? We are broke, too!

Real transparency would have been walking to the podium and saying, "Friends: This thing is a lot worse then I thought. Just like many of you, we are way over our budget. Some of you bought houses you couldn't afford. Many of you spent more money than you made and put the stuff you couldn't afford on your credit cards. The banks were irresponsible, and Wall Street was greedy, but I have to admit to you, the guys and gals over in the Congress have been spending at record rates, too. And they still have a bunch of pet projects they want to spend on, too. That's why this bill got bloated.

"And, oh, by the way, the $800 billion that Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid want to spend is money we don't have. The U.S. is broke just like you are, and the banks that I have to borrow from are thousands of miles away in China. We are going to spend $1 trillion-plus more than we take in this year in revenue, and next year it will be $2 trillion. That's on top of the $10.8 trillion that we owe in national debt.

"And if you don't think the banks have any money, the Federal Reserve is loaning them trillions."

But he could have closed out that depressing little litany by saying, "Together, we are going to get out of this thing!"

Obviously, our new president is still a stranger to us. We like him. Many trust him. We all hope he will succeed. But we don't know a lot about his management style or the people he picked as his team (except that a few of them didn't pay all their taxes.)

But in the world of politics, you seldom get a second chance to make a good impression.

The president's news conference was the beginning of the selling process. It was a fair performance, and by the end, the stimulus bill designed by Speaker Pelosi and Appropriations Chairman Dave Obey was owned by him.

The new Treasury secretary was the man who was supposed to lay out the plan to rescue the banks the next days. Secretary Tim Geithner's performance Tuesday was a disaster, and his plan was nonexistent. And the market tanked.

The Democrats will get their bill, and the president will sign it quickly. More money will have been committed in a shorter period of time than ever in our history.

It will be declared a great victory for the new team. And we and our kids will be paying for it for a long time. I hope it works, because there is no money to try again! We will quickly learn whether social engineering really works and whether all these Keynesians are right.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 03:36 PM

One positive suggestion start telling people that Capitalism is finished and that Marx was right after all.

Stop pretending that even Jesus Christ could save this system...not that it is remotely worth saving!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Peter T.
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 03:33 PM

The idea that Bush wouldn't close Gitmo because other countries weren't willing to take the prisoners is demeaning to horseshit.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Amos
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 02:56 PM

Your slaes statistics, if they indicate anything at all, Sawz, seem to support the idea that Obama is beginning to instill confidence in a bruised and battered economic community. There may be hope yet.

Doug, you do not see the very important differences between Bush's sense of what is important and Obama's, nor between their very different concepts of human decency, legal principle, or the duty of office. It is not the case that it is just one opinion versus another. Bush's indifference to economic reality destroyed the American economy, encouraged by his callous support of his "base" in their unending quest for more profit above all other criteria. Obama's efforts will be in quite a different direction. What you see, filtered by your own prejudicial bias, as pretensions of kingliness appears to others as imple dignity; and I would remind you that it was your friend Bush who thought the idea of a dictatorship was acceptable for America, if he could be the dictator, and who did more to upset the balance of powers established by the Framers (strongly to the advantage of his unary executive branch) than any other President we have had. Bush's disrespect for the press and for ordinary people was plain, while Obama, so far, has shown considerable respect for all participants in the business of AMerican life. The comparison between the two is one of wide and dramatic differences.

WHile the full scope of Obama's "change" program remains to be seen, I think it is extremely premature to accuse him of hypocrisy or double-dealing, or to start slinging your feces at a decent man who has been handed an extraordinarily difficult challenge--one, I am sure, that you would not yourself be up to addressing.

It is easy to speak in bitterness and be a detractor, but it is far more profitable to contribute constructively tot he dialogue, seeking to express positive suggestions which would improve matters rather than limit yourself to slurs.

A


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: DougR
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 02:53 PM

jts:You just don't seem to comprehend how ill-prepared I believe Obama is to be president of the United States.

Mick:Time will tell, Mick. Only time.

Ake: your earlier comment about Gitmo. Don't you believe that if the Bush administration could have found willing countries to take the terrorists it would gladly have provided the transportation from Gitmo? I believe the difficulty of finding countries to take them only became "real" to Obama when he took office. Otherwise he would have closed Gitmo immediately as he said he would while campaigning. Putting the in Afghanistan might present some real problems too. They have their hands pretty full just handling the Taliban and Al Quieda there.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 02:11 PM

Doug is speaking more from what he wishes will happen than what will happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: GUEST,Jts
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 01:57 PM

Doug,

You just don't appear to comprehend how bad Bush was.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: DougR
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 01:48 PM

Donuel: I appreciate the sentiment, but we have little fear of falling through the ice here in Arizona. :>)

McGrath:What makes you so sure I would NOT be "delighted" to be wrong if Obama's plan works? Only a fool (no pun intended Barry) would not be delighted to have our economy improve from the current mess!

Barry: Thank you for your apology which I accept. I have been called for worse on this forum I assure you.

I completely understand the viewpoint you so clearly outline in your post of 12 February at 02:18AM. Your feelings about Bush are exactly the same as I have for Obama! I cringe when I hear him read from the teleprompter, his head raised above the crowd in "Kingly" pose, (that really gets to me -reminds me of the old newsreel films showing Benito Mussolini) and shudder to hear him stumble along speaking extemporaneously.

The disparity is, you fully expect me to respect YOUR viewpoint, but you have no respect for mine.

I agree that we will not be subjected to hearing late night talks show hosts uttering "Obamaisms" as they did "Bushisms," but not for the reasons you state. They won't for fear of being accused of being raciest.

I must disagree, though, when you say Obama speaks for the world. It will not be too long, when the honeymoon is over (and it will be), when Obama will probably endure the same type of criticism Bush did when he says or does something that other countries do not feel is in their best interest.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Sawzaw
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 01:47 PM

Obama's no pork "stimulus" bill that he says is such an emergency contains $30 million to protect the salt marsh harvest mouse in Nancy Pelosi's district.

How is that going to stop foreclosures or save jobs?

Meanwhile consumer spending was up 1% in January. Receipts at filling stations increased 2.6 percent and sales at automobile dealerships and parts stores rose 1.6 percent

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 11:08 AM

Barry, Bravo!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 10:54 AM

PS Barry,
your post was both refreshing and inspiring to read

Doug R, if you fell through the ice, I would do my best to save you.
So would our President.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 10:53 AM

A real press conference was such a shock when compared to what has been called a press conference for the last 8 years.
Instead of cringing I felt a confidence that what was said was not only true but a step beyond what one might expect.

The President is not allowing history to be revised.
He is re establishing the regulatory systems and budgets to agencies that were starved in staff and funds to the point that they existed in name only. Those agencies when staffed with ethical people committed to their country and not owned by a group of corporate godfathers, will restore a modicum of confidence in the economy and finance of this nation.

There is the possibility that is it is too late but even hope is better than the total collapse of the USA which would only profit a small group of international bankers that would all fit in your average high school gymnasium.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 10:14 AM

Basically he is doing exactly what the system demands.
the stimulus package works,(it didn't in UK), Obama will simply be re-setting the system......with the tax dollars of those who have already been ripped off by the financial industry.

Guantanamo would have had to close no matter who was in power, it had become a big negative politically.

He did not re-define America's position on torture.
His spokesmen say that his administration will prevent charges being brought against CIA torturers; and Mr Obama has issued executive orders, under which the CIA still retain authority to "render" prisoners,(the secret abduction and transfer of prisoners to foreign countries which support the USA.)

"One solution for dealing with Guantanamo detainees upon its closure, as ordered by President Obama to occur within a year, would be to render them to foreign governments to be held in prisons there, or possibly transfer to other U.S. military detention centers, such as at Bagram Air Force base in Afghanistan, where court rulings such as the Supreme Court's restoration of habeas corpus do not apply."(NYT)

Ethics??? don't make me laugh....he's a politician isn't he?....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Amos
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 08:44 AM

YA gotta love t6hese guys who crotocize Obama because he offers words instead of deed.

POlitic IS words, it's their primary building material. Laws are made of them, wills are bent with them, objections raised with them, and lives hang in the balance every time the President speaks because f the stregth of his words.

The fact that he uses them well is important, and certainly more appealing tyhan the thumb-in-mouth Oratory of George. But what's even more important--he uses them for the good, and is showing it. Words is where the political world draws results from. Words that lead to results.

Furthermore I believe he was sworn into office on January 20th. Is it February 20th, yet? Why, no, it isn't. Yet already he has managed a major stimulus package most of the way through and is heading for the finish line on iy, has ordered Gantamo closed, hs redefined the American position on tortue, on professional ethics in office and a number of other issues.

If I could get that much done in my first 2 weeks ibn a new job, I woudl be pretty pleased. He must be using words right.


A


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 07:54 AM

If it is better, I will be delighted to acknowledge it.

I somehow doubt that you'll be able to feel that way, Doug. Even if it turns out to be the case and you do acknowledge it, I don't think you'll be delighted to do so. (I really would be delighted if I'm wrong on that.)

But in any case that "six months" means its all pretty irrelevant. I think imagining that this massive crisis can be sorted out in six months is way out of line with reality - it doesn't begin to recognise how bad things are.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Barry Finn
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 03:21 AM

Doug, I apologize, I should not have called you a "Fool".

Not only is 4 millions jobs not unattainable, all that's needed is to replace the jobs lost since Clinton left office & the man's almost there.
Alright, lets all jump on Joe. First off, Obama's just getting off "Jump Street" & now folks are looking to side swipe with the hit & run. Joe hasn't even come to the crosswalk yet. 8 Yrs of disgraceful decay & we now got a team that while it may not be perfect it is already a team with a spirit, a goal, it's on the move, it's repair crew is already out there patching the tears & filling in the holes.
"Un-fucking-real"! He's pulled the stops on the last 350 billion that was pissed out the widow without reguard (Bush's Bail/Bill-out Bull), he's call for a closed "Gitmo", he's pushing gene cell & the many other sciences into the picture after it's been tossed out the window so long ago, he's already started with health care for children, he's renounced torture.
You all with your "wait & see" if he fails so we can put a righteous spear through his chest & a nail in his coffin, only are settin up the scene for failure. Why does that not surprise me. Historically, if you keep looking back over you shoulder you'll always only see your footsteps that lead straight to your asshole. The republican's nightmare is that Obama & company pulls off a miracle rather than the mirage that they'd love to pray for all just to make sure they keep the corner office & have there piece of pie for the few yrs left that they hope to hang on to.

If anyone thinks I'm rosy & wearing tinted glasses take another look. In the 60's I marched against Vietnam where my brother was & walked for civil rights. I was violently against the establishmants policies, I haven't trusted but a very few a politicans since Martha kissed George, I vote every chance I get only cause I put down a gun when I was only a kid, I grew up hungry for education & never got it, I grew up hungry for food & never eat my fill till I stole it, I grew up cold & never knew warmth until I walked through fire & I fought against odds that killed off almost every childhood friend I ever knew. So when I say I tear up when I hear Obama speak it because this is the 1st time in my life that I see that those who grew up like me, those who had no hope of living long enough to become an adult, no real home, no education, no money, no careers, no health care & no future, they now have a light that they can look towards at the end of their tunnel. No one should have to fight every day of their youth just to survive into adulthood. Yes I tear up thinking that there's a chance for that to finally change & that there is finally an honest, straight forward, intellegant, caring stand up guy in the White House. ANd they said it would never happen, it had to happen one day!

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 02:44 AM

Ebbie..... surely its obvious that the problems facing the US and the UK are systemic, that there is no answer to your question.

The best Mr Obama can hope for is to restore the US financial system to what it was before the "crash".....a disaster waiting to happen.

The reason....Not just a few greedy bankers, as we are being led to believe, but government and ourselves.
Yes the bankers made their millions, but the reasons that they were allowed to, go much deeper. Government needed the growth to sustain its programme and its own popularity. During the boom years money flowed into the govt coffers like a river, nobody cared that the boom was built on bad money. Tragically even these phoney tax revenues have squandered on mad wars, mismanagment of the economy,and now the taxpayer is being asked to stump up $8 hundred billion to re-install the status quo!!

As part of that mismanagment, we ourselves have been prepared to accept massive credit burdens to avail ourselves of new houses, cars, and all manner of consumer goods, burdens that will bankrupt many and turn the lives of the rest into economic slavery.

The real reason for it all is simply personal greed.....not just the bankers, not just the government, but all of us who want a lifestyle which we know to be unsustainable.

Its often been written....even in these pages, that the Capitalism is based on greed....well go and think about it and maybe someday we will start to elect leaders who will point their fingers at the real underlying reasons for our problems .....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: GUEST,jts
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 02:22 AM

I disagree Peter, four million jobs is easy. Creating jobs requires one thing. Money. For now we have plenty of money. The economic crisis caused the dollar to rise. When the shit hits the fan. the greenback is king.

We need to spend it while we can.


btw I totally agree on Biden.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Barry Finn
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 02:18 AM

Doug
I more than believe in Obama. I believe in this nation, that it may be a nation of fools but they are still good & if they knew what was right they would want that. I believe in that our governemt would do it's level best to do what's right except for the people that are running it, if it were truely run by the will of "we the people" we would truely have a great nation. We are a super power, the only superpower, we could be the greatest force on Earth for the betterment of all but we are not, we are a laughing stock & a fear monger, we help only when we are helping ourselves.
With this in mind you can just imagine how I've felt for the last 8 yrs when listening to GWB try to carry on a coversation, make a speech, explain a descision, meet with another nation's top rep, converse with the likes of Nelson Mandela (who refers to George as an Idiot).
You can't understand how I feel when there's been a flood that has over run all that was ever part of what was once your youth. How the land was left muddy, houses filled with soot & grime, water to foul for vipers but the vipers were thriving, homes push off their foundations & splintered. Yes & it looks as if there'll be no let up, no help for well into the next 8 yrs. That's the Bush legacy. Then when day the sun starts to shine, the land looks as if it's starting to grow fertile. Someone has shown up at your door step & he's the 1st person that has spoken a word of wisdon, a sentence that's intellegant, explained an idea that's understandable, didn't have a speaking disability, doesn't say words like; misunderestimate, hispanically, subliminable, unceptable, unthaw, or when speaking I don't hear phrases used like; "is our children learning", "I understand small business growth. I was one", "more and more of our imports come from overseas". I feel now that Obama is on the job the comedy will revert back to a true art form rather than a lazy place for stand ups to laugh as our top guy falls down "off the job". We now have someone who'll not be fodder for the late night jocks, we won't have the term "Bushisms" being toss about when hearing Obama speak. We no longer have to cringe when our #1 guy carries on with the heads of states from around the world & looks like the only Elephant in the room.
Doug,
I am so overjoyed that Obama is just not an embarrassment & then to top that off & to find out that this is the first time I can listen to our #1 address the world & actually feel proud that he's speaking not just for us US citizens but for the world & "the world is hopefull when he does speak". Imagine that, he (Obama) speaks & the rest of the world is listening, intently, with a view that there is someone the worldd takes seriously & he's our guy that they're hearing & not either laughing at or cringing from in fear.
It's been a long time that we've had anyone to be proud of. I haven't felt that way since I was in grade school & JFK was speaking to the world.
When was the last time singers from all geners sang songs, many songs of a Prez in a possitive & hopefull light. I NEVER HAVE IN MY LIFE TIME! Everyone wants a piece of him!
Do you get it now? Fool!
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Peter T.
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 01:56 AM

And Joe Biden should really just shut up for the next four years, and be the graceful, silent, advisor.

yours,

peter t.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Peter T.
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 01:41 AM

I think Obama is way better on the campaign trail with ordinary people than he is in something like that Press Conference. He is relaxed and smart. Put him in a formal situation and he does "professor" far better than he does "I'm angry on your behalf". The bliss is to hear a thoughtful adult at work.

But he is making a lot of really elementary mistakes. This 4 million jobs thing is a complete crock -- a typical professorial mistake. No one can predict 4 million anything, it is just a number that the Republicans are going to beat him over the head with in 4 years or 2. He has to stop these specific predictions, they are going to be completely wrong.   What he needs to be specific about is what he is going to do, not what the exact results are going to be. He has started to move in that direction, but it is not a confidence builder.

And his role in the judicial secrecy issue is a complete disaster: more Bush.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: GUEST,jts
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 01:27 AM

>> Each time Obama speaks I tear up & nearly cry. <<

I was like that for Bush. Out of frustration with the people like Doug who elected him in 2004 fully knowing what he was incapable of.

Doug.

If they spend 800,000,000 billion they will create 4 million jobs. Millions will be employed providing the services they will buy. If they give it away in Bush style tax cuts, they won't create nearly as many jobs. Bush's stimulus is a recipe for investment bubbles and capital flight.

No Republican uses Economics as a basis of decision making. Its all the myth of Reagan; the religion of trickle down.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 01:05 AM

"I think it will be interesting, though, to see what the economic picture looks like in six months after the current legislation intended to correct the problem has taken effect. If it is better, I will be delighted to acknowledge it. If it is no better or even worse, the fault will lie with the current administration, not the former one." DougR

I have asked this question in varying words over and over on the 'Cat the last while and so far no one has made any attempt to answer: What is your idea of how to fix our problems? If John McCain had won the presidency what should he/would he be doing?

I'm sure Doug will give me an answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 12:26 AM

I mean that the way he behaves when he speaks is encouraging in itself, Sawzaw, because he's articulate, intelligent, and dignified. I am not making comments about recent policy measures, and I have no particular opinion yet about these new economic measures. I don't know enough about them at this point to think I have any business making much comment about them.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: DougR
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 12:23 AM

Ron Davies: and you do not have tunnel vision? Give me a break. Of course I do! I haven't tried to hide the fact that I believe in a conservative philosophy. You are a liberal. I have no problem with that, it's your right. I think it will be interesting, though, to see what the economic picture looks like in six months after the current legislation intended to correct the problem has taken effect. If it is better, I will be delighted to acknowledge it. If it is no better or even worse, the fault will lie with the current administration, not the former one.

And Sawzaw, you are absolutely right. So far the Obama administration has been long on words and short on detail.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Sawzaw
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 12:14 AM

I think Bush was a poor orator and Obama is a much better orator.

However I think what was said is more important than how it was delivered.

Obama: "I don't want to preempt my Secretary of the Treasury; he's going to be laying out these principles in great detail tomorrow"

Next Day

Geithner: "And we are not going to put out details"

Results Dow Jones down 400 points.

What refreshing difference from what politicians usually do.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 11:07 PM

You're misunderstanding why I brought Hitler up, Ron. I do not wish to suggest that Obama is a dangerous man, as Hitler was, and that was not my intention. I was simply using a wellknown example of how a man with great charisma can move people. Period. The same was true of Churchill, John Kennedy, Mussolini in his heyday, Napoleon, FDR, Caesar....what the heck...such a man can be very good or very bad for his country...or even somewhere in the fuzzy middle between those extremes.

The important thing is, some politicians have tremendous charisma, and Obama does, but only the people who like Obama will feel the glow inside or the "tingle" from that charisma. Period.

That's what I was saying to Doug. Doug chose to interpret it the way he chose to interpret it and so did you...and you both chose a different interpretation than I would.

Doug, you don't know yet if the fact that people are so emotionally moved by Obama is a bad thing or a good thing. If he turns out to be a good leader, it will be a good thing. If he turns out to be a bad leader, it won't. It's that simple.

I am not making value judgements one way or the other about people with great charisma, I'm simply talking about how it affects those who follow them.

Okay, Ron, so your opinion as to whether the majority of Germans enthusiastically supported Hitler in the late 30's and early part of WWII is different from mine. That's fine with me. I'm used to us having different opinions about a lot of things, and my reaction is a great big.....

*** shrug ***

I am not going to risk getting carpal tunnel syndrome by being tempted into arguing with you about it for the next 50 posts or the next 50 days. Think whatever you like about it. So will I.

Ebbie - "Obama actually stopped to think before he spoke, and in fact kept on thinking as he spoke"

Yes! That's what he does all right, and it's positively striking in its refreshing difference from what one usually hears politicians do. That's one of the reasons I like him. He's thoughtful rather than just knee-jerk reactive, which is about all one usually gets from politicians.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 10:50 PM

One of the most striking facets of the press conference was that President Obama actually stopped to think before he spoke, and in fact kept on thinking as he spoke. DougR, not being used to having a president do that, does not understand the process and does not approve. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 09:58 PM

"Look how the Germans believed in Hitler . They were ready to move mountains for him in 1939."

Why the poster wants to bring Hitler into this discussion is known only to him. Perhaps it's since he sees himself as an iconoclast.

But at any rate, this is completely misleading--in fact at base it's wrong.

In 1939 the German population in general was not in fact eager to "move mountains" for Hitler. His popularity was due to the fact that up to that time, Germany's aims had been attained without any "moving mountains"--specifically without war. Though he himself had planned to push the Czechs into war, he was forced to back down--and was not happy about it.   Ironically enough, the avoidance of war was what propelled his popularity--and there was no desire in the general population to sacrifice for him. As 1939 progressed and war became more likely, the hope of the Germans in general was that if there was a war, it would be localized--mainly just with Poland.   There was no desire at all among the general population for a general war--in stark contrast with 1914.


I recently read Goebbels Diaries 1939-1941.   Excellent, though I would have preferred it auf Deutsch. It makes the point over and over that Goebbels had to manufacture excitement--and control the news as much as he could--and that there was still a lot of discontent in Germany with the regime. The idea that the Germans in general were primarily happy with Hitler since goals were being attained "on the cheap" is confirmed by other sources also.

If we're going to cite historical precedents, let's try to be accurate in our pontificating.


And Doug, as usual, lets his ideological tunnel vision get in the way of his brain. He cites Kathleen Parker. She is a former writer for the National Review--now most famous for dissing Sarah. Maybe she wants to win her old friends back.   Her views, by the way, do not reflect those of the Washington Post. Aside from opinions on Sarah, Kathleen Parker's views are more likely to match......Doug R's.   Surprise. surprise.

I heard a good portion of the press conference. And found myself marveling, not only that Obama could think on his feet and seemed to have his priorities right, but that he even had no problem pronouncing the name of the Russian president. I had fun speculating on just how GWB would have butchered it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's First Televised Press Conference
From: DougR
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 06:10 PM

LH: "Look at how the Germans believed in Hitler, for gosh sakes. They were ready to move mountains for him in 1939."

And that is precisely what concerns me about the emotionally involved people like Barry and Chris Matthews. That's how they feel about Obama.

Believe me, I was a supporter of GWB, but I was never so emotionally involved with him. I didn't tear up when he spoke (well mebbe sometime when he stumbled around when speaking extemporaneously)and I never felt a tingle run up my leg when he did anything.

DougR