Contract Riders (folk musicians)

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 11:06 AM

No problem Les!   I apologize for not being clear in my "offending" post. Re-reading it, it did sound confrontational, but that was not my intent.

I also agree with you - the artists I book are also 100% professional at all times - even if their work as a performer is a second job. They treat the music with great respect and that is the only way I would book them!

I hope we can have a beer together sometime - ale or lager, I'm not fussy! :)

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: Rasener
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 11:11 AM

A duvel :-)

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 12:50 PM

Anybody here booked The Rascal Flatts?

The Rub On Rascal Flatts

(Link off the page about Sir Paul's riders).

Thorough research there, comparing the rate they were offering with the charges at the "Squeeze Cream Spa".

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: HipflaskAndy
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 01:50 PM

Even being the part-timers that we are (The Duncan McFarlane Band)
...we have been asked to provide our 'rider' for a major Folk Fest!
It being a summer fset, we merely asked that there would be some bottled water available!!!

..but I do seem to remember, one time, being offered, and subsequently well fed by, a slap-up meal at Faldingworth! - Thanks Villan!

Funny, though....
Having close contact with one particular Fest-Organiser, I have actually knowledge of an extravagant rider
presented on behalf of one VERY well-known pro band for our wee local fest!
Extraordinary demands! - particular stipulations for large amounts of wine and spirits, for one thing!
Thing was - he and I both know a member of that band, and asked him about the 'rider'.
It seems their 'agent/management makes the demands - the band knew nothing of its extent!
Funny, that!

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: DebC
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 02:08 PM

The only "rider" that I have is that if I am being housed in a home after the show, that no parties or singarounds happen in the place where I am staying. I started adding that after one evening house concert where there was a singaround until 3 AM and I had to be on the road at 7:30 AM to be in another town the next day 6 hours away.

As Ron explained above, many things that we might ask for are so that we can give the audience the best performance possible.

Deb Cowan

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: jeffp
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 04:22 PM

Les:

Lager yeast does not float. Ale yeast floats. Ale is fermented at room temperature, while lager is fermented at lower temperatures.

Jeff
Homebrewer

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 05:00 PM

The best I heard of from a Canadian friend for housing was: a recognizable bed and a room with a door that closes.

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 05:05 PM

Phil - I see variations on that often!   I am sure that there have been instances of offering a couch without any privacy.   A performer on the road deserves a private room with a decent bed to rest on.

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 05:54 PM

Mary, simply go through the rider with a Black Sharpie and draw a line through the requirements you are unable to meet, or consider excessive, and mail it back. Usually they'll sign it and take the gig.
Those things are put in just to see how far they can go.

My agent used to book major acts for large venues, and she noticed after a while that the the performers never touched the stuff in the dressing-room (bottles of Jack Daniels, cases of beer, sandwiches, etc.), but the roadies grabbed it all when the gig was over.


Seamus

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: GUEST,Seamus Kennedy in Alaska
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 05:55 PM

Oops, that was me up above.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: Anne Lister
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 06:05 PM

I think there are the makings of quite a large book on the subject of "inappropriate lodgings for performers", just as there's an equally large one on "fantastic hospitality for performers".   

I went through a time in my life when I was severely allergic to cats (and, to a lesser extent, dogs) and the only rider to the contract I was then using said "Accommodation in a cat-free home, please" after a US tour which had me in a couple of emergency rooms on respiration equipment.   My favourite response to this rider was someone who wrote "We do have a cat but he's very retiring". Took a while to explain to the person concerned that the shyness or bravado of the cat wasn't the issue at stake!

While touring as half of Anonyma we did request an ironing board, but this wasn't to cope with our concert clothing - it was the best acceptable alternative to a keyboard stand. This was a tour when we had no tour vehicle but we did have two synths and simply couldn't carry keyboard stands and amps around with us. We realised early on that even if a venue could find one keyboard stand it was unlikely to be able to provide the two we needed. It was fun seeing what people provided in terms of an amp for the keyboards and even better seeing what they rigged up as a keyboard stand - some of the organisers clearly thought we'd only asked for an ironing board as some kind of feminist statement!

Anne

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 06:07 PM

Something on one message reminded me of a great rider from one (well-known artist) and I guarantee many organisers will know this one....

"Two pints of weak bitter"

Same artist's sound check - who's doing the sound? Strikes two chords, sings one line. "That's great......"

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 06:29 PM

"some of the organisers clearly thought we'd only asked for an ironing board as some kind of feminist statement!"

Seems an odd sort of statement for a feminist - wouldn't asking for a table-saw or a workbench be more appropriate?

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: Mo' Handy
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 06:40 PM

The rider that dismayed me was the one that required "no Peavey equipment" in the sound kit. The Peavey power amps were permanently installed in the venue, and it was unlikely that they would be changed out for the one show. After a phone call the performers in the end approved the Peavey amps. I suspect that their issue was based on their experience with Peavey mics and speakers: as proper Celtic ladies, they had no desire to sound like rock 'n' rollers.

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 01:39 AM

Hipflaskandy, I am sorry but we can't offer the rider for 3 barrels of Bishops Tipple on stage, but we can offer tap water :-)

Tabster, just as well you mentioned that for when you visit us. Forunately there are no cats or dogs where you are staying. :-)

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: Peace
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 01:43 AM

Sounds like these folks are a bit fulla themselves.

I have received great hospitality at almost every club I ever worked. And I have never been treated so well as at Beer's festival.

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: Anne Lister
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 02:49 AM

Les, I'm not as allergic now as I was then - we have a cat, who sleeps on top of me and puts her tail up my nose fairly regularly. I couldn't have dealt with that a few years back.

And as for
>wouldn't asking for a table-saw or a workbench be more appropriate?

Yes, of course, but we were on the receiving end of the comments so I can't tell you why anyone thought we'd want to be ironing on stage!

Anne

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: bruceCMR
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 05:29 AM

> "no Peavey equipment"

"No Behringer" is just as common. It's usually the band's way of saying they want a quality rig, not something that has been borrowed from "Disco Dave". Again, it's often just a way to make the venue contact the artist in advance.

> Same artist's sound check - who's doing the sound? Strikes two
> chords, sings one line. "That's great......"

I reently heard Phil Cunningham tell a similar story, talking about someone else.... this person (can't remember who it was) walked up to the mic, looked at the sound engineer, and said "This will be the shortest sound check you've ever done.... wasn't it?"

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 10:07 AM

" It's usually the band's way of saying they want a quality rig "

Well said. After reading this thread, I went back and browsed through the contract riders for the last couple of seasons at the Hurdy Gurdy. I could not find a single item that I would consider frivolous or egotiscal. These are not musicians who are full of themselves or who act as divas. They care about their performance and how they will be presented to the audience, and they want to do their best. Concerning food - I've seen much worse treatment from customers in restaurants who make pithy demands on the waitress. What is so wrong with requesting certain foods or drink?

I'm more concerned about presenters who treat artists like slaves. You don't just throw on a light switch and tell the performer to put on a show. I was in a venue where the owner was bragging about the beautiful stage they put together - it turned out to be a garage with furniture that looks like was picked up at a curbside and worklights that were clipped onto a board. Don't even ask about the sound equipment that was hobbled together. I was expecting to see an 8-track tape player for intermission music!!

Audiences pick up on these inadequacies.   Before we moved the Hurdy Gurdy to a small but state-of-the art theater in a brand new Community Center in Fair Lawn, NJ, we were presenting concert at a Unitarian Church.    Unitarian Churches are popular venue sites in this country - they appear to offer low or free rental and they have decent facilities. Our Unitarian Church was an exception. They kept raising our rent to the point where we could not afford to produce shows. We were presenting shows in a 100 seat classroom with no stage, the lights were overhead fixtures meant for a classroom (we simply turned out 3/4 of the lights for effect), and we had to hump our sound equipment in each show. The audience sat in folding chairs.   They were not comfortable, and our attendance suffered. Performers got dressed in a smaller classroom, not very private or comfortable.

I can see a HUGE difference in our new venue - attendance has increased signficantly, we have private dressing rooms and a kitchen for meals, and I can see the quality of performance improving.   Sure, folk music is an informal genre at its soul, but audiences are more demanding these days.   If they are going to pay good money for a show, they want to feel comfortable and be able to hear and see a quality performance.   It is a mutual collaboration between audience, venue and performer.

So, please be careful when posting here.   Sure, the major rock bands can request bowls of green M&M's, telephones and fax machines, cases of Jack Daniels and a bevy of hookers, but that is not the world we are talking about here. Sure there are a few people who think they are more popular than they really are, but I would say that 99% are willing to work things out. I think we are very lucky to have performers who spend their lives living out of the trunk of their car and travel across the country to share their music.

As presenters, the least we can do is examine the rider and try to understand why the request is made - and then do our best to accomodate or not feel afraid to explain why we cannot - before hand.

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: meself
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 10:54 AM

"audiences are more demanding these days"

Sure - they're getting older!

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 10:58 AM

Not necessarily older!   I've been seeing younger faces at our shows recently. People are catching on - slowly but surely. Of course, the younger audiences have different tastes and expectations so it is a challenge.

Subject: RE: Contract Riders (folk musicians)
From: meself
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 11:58 AM

I was just thinking about how I used to have no problem sitting for hours on those metal folding chairs ... They must be using harder metal or something nowadays. I've come to appreciate the "soft-seat" aspect of the soft-seat venue ...