BS: World's best grammatical howlers

Subject: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Nickhere
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 09:09 PM

Just following over from the other thread on grammar, I thought it might be interesting to start one on the funniest grammatical or spelling howlers you've come across. Maybe this thread has been done before under different names, but grammatical errors will always be with us so there are bound to be a few new ones.

Here are a few from real life / my own experience to get the ball rolling:

A neon sign in a hostel window: "Vacancy's"

(Vacancy's 'what'?)

On a cafe menu: "Sirlion steak"

(Poor Sir Lion - he might disagree with being eaten like that)

A sign next to a gate at a zoo: "No predestrians through gate"

(Personally, I don't believe in predestrianation myself)

Big sign over a fitness centre: "Women's only gym"

(Poor women - it must get fairly crowded in there, what with only one gym for women in the whole wide world!)

A sign in a pub while renovations were being carried out: "Sorry for the inconvience"

(That's ok, as long as inconvience stays in the corner and doesn't bother us, we'll leave it alone)

There was a sign in a shop in an e-mail a friend sent to me that really highlighted the need for a good grounding in grammar and spelling. Sadly I can't upload the photo here but some of you may have comes across it. It read -

"cock - £1
Diat cock - £1.10"

Despite the pound sign I don't think the sign was in an English shop, I believe there are a few other countries using teh same sign.

I'm quite surprised though these days where I find grammatical errors - I've even spotted one in a very popular national magazine about geography, which I previously thought to be the industry standard when it came to grammar and spelling.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 10:17 PM

Nickhere, in the local paper there was a daily column which pointed out the type of things you posted. While there were a few photo examples of inappropriate spelling and/or syntax, or just a compilation, it turned out that most had to do with folks for whom English was not their primary language--if it was their language at all. After awhile, I just stopped reading them, because it seemed, somehow, mean spirited to me. His column did not survive the 15% cutback at the paper.

Of course I Love Lucy made a career out of Desi's bad grammar and mis-pronunciations.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Nickhere
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 10:29 PM

The example of diat cock was probably non-English speaking, based on pronunciation. But the other examples I quoted were all 100% from native English speakers.


(I'll be back from holidays in a week or so, and will get back to you on the radio link, only had a chance to listen to the start of it so far)

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 10:35 PM

One in a classified ad in my local newspaper: Needed On Sight Manager

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 11:02 PM

Damn. I thought we'd just finished eight years of them. But I guess I misunderestimated the situation.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 11:08 PM

There are so many I quit trying to remember the ones I've seen. Careless use of apostrophes is rampant...but it's hard to tell which are ONLY careless due to hurried typing and which are the result of flatly not understanding the use & rules.

There are other 'little' things about which many people just never bother to even learn the correct usage...

Grammar usually refers to word order and proper use of modifiers and constructing a sentence so that infinitives are not split, but punctuation and spelling are much easier to notice.

Oh...one that really gets me is the way a large portion of the military doesn't know the difference between a 'contingency' and a 'contingent'.

I know that misusing 'there' 'their' and 'they're' is mostly a spelling issue, but continued misuse seems to me to indicate a general vagueness about their place in the language. This is a bit like Ebbie's example. In these days of the WWW (World Wide Web..not 'internet' in most cases) the word site is used/spelled as 'cite' or 'sight' all too often.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 11:08 PM

"Did I just say that?"

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Mickey191
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 11:16 PM

Dover Plains, NY--Today

Gas Station Sign: Under new manager.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 02:51 AM

There's a Raptor sanctuary in Kent that has more apostrophes in its signage than strictly necessary... Eagle's, hawk's, owl's and vulture's.

Even better, there is a school in Barking that has on its gates signs for 'Infant's' and 'Junior's'... A flippin' SCHOOL fer crissakes!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Nickhere
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 04:31 AM

There was a newspaper I read years ago which informed us that "the two cars were travelling behind each other in the direction of Dover"

plus I remember being surprised at reading in a local paper that athletes were about to run the world's first underground mile in a disused mine shaft in South Africa. So far so good. Except that the mine shaft was described as being 18 feet wide and 3 feet high.... I don't know if it qualifies as a grammar error as such, but it was hard to see how the athletes were going to get up any speed with their knuckles knocking sparks out of the floor.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 04:37 AM

I watched a generally intelligent program on Martin Luther which was wrecked for me when the presenter claimed Luther "went into hiding and had to grow a false beard". Surely he grew a real one? The image of Luther messing around trying to grow some beard-glasses-and-false-nose kit was too amusing for me to concentrate on the program for some time.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Micca
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 05:11 AM

While this is not an actual mistake, (it was apparently a Genuine add) there appeared in the New Scientist( prestigious British Science publication) some years ago an advert for an " Edible Oil Technologist"

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 05:15 AM

The people selling the 'diat cock' may not have had English as their first language but why didn't they just copy the spelling on the cans?

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Monique
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 06:22 AM

Just have a look here... difficult to copy "diet coke" spelled "diet coke" from the can

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: s&r
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 06:33 AM

Only dead languages have fixed rules and spelling. Living languages change all the time. Live with it

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: John Hardly
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 06:39 AM

"Only dead languages have fixed rules and spelling. Living languages change all the time. Live with it"

Hiftho, ilan aihgbn. Tnr kwto belgpwrt, dzshtu wmptr wl.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 08:09 AM

From Kendall - an advert a friend of his ran:
Antique dealer wants one night stand.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 08:44 AM

There is a decorator's van around here which has a very smart and expensive looking custom paint job with the company's name and logo on the back and both sides. It includes the slogan "No job to big, no job to small".

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 09:54 AM

There was a great cartoon I saw (and saved!) a number of years ago -- the sign in the newspaper office window read, "Editor's Wanted" while the passerby did a doubletake.

My favorite classified ad typo was a local printer advertising for a press operator for both "web and sheepfed" -- for those of you unfamiliar with printing presses, that should be SHEETfed.

I've worked around a lot of hungry presses, but seldom found any that needed to be fed livestock...(just poor, hapless production techs).

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 10:02 AM

One of my favourites was when we were singing on the Cutty Sark, and they asked us to display the following sign.

Book's and CD's on sale in the shop.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 10:25 AM

Whilst ordinarily I find this sort of petty pendantic niggling irksome in the extreme (see the jolly spat I had with TheSnail & Don Firth Here for my general feelings on the matter - the debate arises after WAV's Grammatical Howler in his post of 01 Jun 08 - 01:41 PM) I nevertheless recall rolling about in helpless hysterics upon reading a notice in a post office window (Wolsingham as I recall) advertising that someone had an Otter Man for sale.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 10:34 AM

'diat cock' seerms to me a perfect example of translating a spoken phrase into print by someone who does not speak English natively.
'di-at' is a close approximation of what is heard, and 'cock' or even 'cok' is a common sound in languages where the long 'o', as in 'oh' sound in not common. I remember in basic German class in college that there were a few folks who seemed emotionally resistant to 'making those funny sounds'.

As to why people do NOT ask for help or consult a dictionary or spelling helper? Now we're into psychology. For years, Japanese manufacturers considered it something like a point of honor to 'learn' English and write their own instruction manuals. leading to all the jokes we remember. Now, big places like Sony have translations done by experts for the various languages, and their manuals are pretty clear.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Monique
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 11:35 AM

Boss: When you have a doubt, just use a dictionary.
Secretary: But sir, I have no doubt!

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 11:58 AM

That's classical: The bad speller either has no doubt or doesn't care.   The person with bad grammar has no doubt or doesn't care.

Or a third possibility for either bad spelling or bad grammar is that the mistakes were deliberately taught that way because the teacher had no doubt or didn't care. So the current "offender" defends by saying, "I was always taught that . . ." Or (s)he even "corrects" the usage of others on the basis of correct memory of incorrect teaching, taken as gospel truth.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 12:55 PM

my fignrs sufer form predictive text syrdnome

soory

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 01:02 PM

My figure does too.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Genie
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 01:36 PM

This is a composite blurb, from memory, based on spelling, grammatical, syntactical, and just-plain conceptual errors I encountered in students' term papers and essay exam questions when I was teaching a course at York University on psychosexual development.


"Most studies of how the men treat women in pubic places have been conducted very biastly.   Psychogists generally agree that boys are usually rough, while girls are gentile. The male hormore testrogen affects sex-roll development in profound ways, but a lot of the deviancy of boy's vs. girl's personality development is the result of the theories of Sigmund Freud in early childhood. ... "

Somewhere in my attic I have the original composite "essay" I put together from those exam answers and term papers.   I'd love to find it. But you get the general idea, I'm sure.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 02:43 PM

Most Howlers are pretty bad at grammar. No doubt about it. Gorillas usually ain't too good at it either, but they're way better than the Howlers are. The basic problem is that a Howler ain't got enough gray matter between his ears to power a night light.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 03:32 PM

Oh my, Genie... I used to grade papers similar to that when I taught a freshman class in college...though mostly not THAT bad. There were kids who just were NOT prepared to write.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Bainbo
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 04:06 PM

There seems to be a general assumption that plurals are formed by using an apostrophe. But even those who know that's not the general rule seem to think it applies when the word ends in a vowel - tomato's, fascia's and the like. My favourite, though was one I spotted in a pub. which was offering pizz'a's .

Another, which appeared in a newspaper I was working for in North East England, referred to one of that region's most distinguished sons, the father of English literature. The reporter genuinely thought he was known as The Vulnerable Bede, and couldn't see what he'd done wrong. Sadly, it wasn't spotted by a sub-editor before it appeared in print.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 04:10 PM

When' in' doubt'...jus't' put' a'postrophe's' every'where'.

I think that may be what is happening out there these days.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 04:57 PM

It's probably a jealousy thing because English hasn't got all those exotic graves and acutes and cidillas and umlauts that make other languages so interesting.

(The Vulnerable Bede indeed! Everybody knows he was The Venerable Bean.)

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 05:01 PM

No, no....the venomous Bee'd

Paws

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 05:04 PM

Fairly often in posts to Freecycle, the person offers a "Three draw chest" -- I don't know if it's just a New England habit to not enunciate the two syllables in "drawer", but that is a result of New England (Maine, New Hampshire, probably some Massachusetts and Vermont as well) dialect. Makes one wonder if anyone besides my friends and myself actually read anymore.

Then one day I came in to work (at an optical shop I occasionally fill in at, owned by the same company as my primary place of employment) and found a note from my 25 year old shop manager saying "the keys are in the draw"...

Uh huh.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 05:21 PM

The one that is getting up my nose at the moment is an advert for mouthwash. The tag line reads:~

"Wake up your mouth."


I'm reduced to shouting at the TV or posters on the Tube... I'm also thinking about increasing my medication.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Genie
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 05:23 PM

"Only dead languages have fixed rules and spelling. Living languages change all the time. Live with it
- Stu"

Before mass communication technology (especially the internet), such changes tended to occur gradually enough not to make a huge problem during any individual's lifetime.   I mean, one could pretty much understand the letters written by one's own grandparents, for example.

What happens now is a twofold problem:
1) Some people, such as bloggers, TV advertisers, and others who command widespread media attention, seem to be able to change the verbal habits of millions of people almost overnight.   A grammatical mistake seen on the internet or heard/seen on TV is likely to be 'consumed' by huge numbers of people.   This gives those people -- who are often not that well trained in grammar and spelling themselves -- a very disproportionate impact (e.g., compared to English teachers or established authors).

2) To paraphrase an old saying, "A grammatical or spelling error makes its way around the world before proper (previously established) usage gets it trousers on."

Are we to accept "give it to Tom or I" as correct because some TV star or pop singer used that phrase and the rest of the media (often being chosen more for their looks than for their skill or knowledge) started parroting that?

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 05:58 PM

"Draw" certainly is a regional pronunciation of "drawer." Norm Abram, the host of the PBS TV show The New Yankee Workshop regularly says "draw"—and it comes up often, because his projects often involve building them.

He was born in Rhode Island and raised in Massachusetts.

I trust, though, that he knows the correct spelling is "drawer."

*
My own pet peeve is the people who try to speak or imitate Elizabethan or Biblical (i.e. King James) speech by indiscriminately putting an "-eth" ending on every verb. You frequently hear this from "Renaissance Fair" re-enactors. They say things like, "I haveth a cold." Aaargh! Of course, they don't have a clue how to use "thee" and "thou" correctly, either, or the verbs that go with them, but that doesn't stop them from trying.

There used to be a comic strip in the Sunday St. Paul Pioneer Press, a sort of low-rent imitation of "Prince Valiant" but drawn in a style more like Japanese manga or anime. It had a swashbuckling knights-and-dragons theme, and to make the dialog sound quaint, they regularly committed this kind of atrocity.

I looked for an example online, but failed to find one.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: s&r
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 06:10 PM

Good point Genie. I do have my pet hates with 'mistakes' in grammar and spelling as I learned them. Pronunciation too. However,I think it's like tilting at windmills to turn back the tide of language change (if I can mix metaphors.

For what it's worth my pet hates are cervical with a long 'i', dissect with a long 'i', aitch pronounced as if it started with an 'h', clumsy constructions to avoid splitting infinitives (a meaningless construct in English), your example of 'Tom or I' above.

On a parallel thread someone was writing about ITA which failed mostly I think by stopping children writing the same language as their parents and grandparents

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: paula t
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 07:20 PM

I worked as a lifeguard at my local leisure centre many years ago .The manager could not understand my objections to the following line in an advertisement for a swimming course,"The safety of the children is of course the penultimate".

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 09:49 PM

Every time I see a list of "rules and regulations", I always wonder: which ones are the rules and which ones are the regulations?

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: BobKnight
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 10:06 PM

Some of these errors come from people who write as they speak. It seems the English no longer aspirate the "wh," sound - so we get spellings like,"wether," instead of whether." Also, wen, ware, and wot, instead of when, where and what.

A woman on TV tonight said, " I literally turned to stone," - really?

A magazine I was reading a couple of days ago wrote, "This photo could be improved by cropping a slither off the bottom," when of course they meant "sliver."

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 12:18 AM

If she had literally turned to stone it would make for a short interview, wouldn't it? ;-) But think of the rest those around her would get...

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Gurney
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 12:51 AM

Why has no-one mentioned 'America's Got Talent' or worse, 'America's Most Smartest Model?'
Not the best, but cringeworthy, I think.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: meself
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 12:54 AM

It's amusing to read of people's pet peeves regarding pronunciation on an international forum. In North America, you would never hear "cervical" pronounced with a long "i" - and you would never hear "dissect" pronounced with a short "i" ...

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Rowan
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 01:41 AM

In Oz' New England I hear "Drawer" as "draw" more or less routinely although I also hear it as "draw'r". And it's very common (in both senses?) here for cervical and dissect to be pronounced with the long "i". On the other hand (the one with 5 digits) I heard "dipole" pronounced the other day as "dip ole"; that pricked the old ears up!

And then there's the medicos who pronounce every version of the Greek for "head" (cephalic, encephalogram etc) with the "s" replacing the hard "c" (as in kephos); they even do it to Celtic, occasionally. You'd reckon they'd know better.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Genie
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 05:12 AM

Yeah, meself, but the word is DISsect, not DIsect. I.e., it means to take apart or separate into parts, not to split into two parts.   (That's something I learned in high school biology.) That's why even in N America it shouldn't be pronounced with a long "i."   (OK, off pedant soapbox.) ; D

Jim D, as for the "rules and regulations," etc., that reminds me of a man who regularly offered public prayer at our church back in the 1950s.   He would include in each entreaty to God "lead, guide AND direct us in each AND every way ... ." (I added the emphasis.)

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 05:21 AM

Every time I see a list of "rules and regulations", I always wonder: which ones are the rules and which ones are the regulations?

I wonder a similar thing about "private and confidential". It is hard to see things being private but not confidential, and vice versa. (I bet it ultimately boils down to two separate legal definitions, though.)

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: s&r
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 05:25 AM

And cervical is derived from cervix...

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 05:59 AM

I marked an exam paper once which told me that the Public Order Act 1936 prohibited the wearing of a blackberry in public.

(Black beret . . . )

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Penny S.
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 06:13 AM

Someone up there mentioned one of my peeves - fascias - which ought to be facias, fascias being bundles of tendons and sinews in the foot, not frontages.

And we have started getting "draws" over here, too.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Anne Lister
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 06:27 AM

The one that gets me shouting at the radio is otherwise intelligent-sounding people who confuse "mitigate" and "militate", giving odd notions of "mitigating against" something.

That's when I'm not muttering darkly about the misuse of apostrophes.

Anne

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Janie
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 06:34 AM

I drove by a restaurant once once with this signage - "Now Excepting Reservations for New Year's Eve."

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: GUEST,Lara
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 07:06 AM

I remember a few years ago watching a television programme about this - the presenters went out on the street urging people to sign their petition to "Stop women's suffrage". They had people flocking to sign it.... oh dear!

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 07:14 AM

I wonder if the sign was right? New Year is singular, therefore New Year's would be the genitive singular as the day is the Eve OF the New Year. I'm not sure what case Eve is, whether it is a simple direct object, which it would be in Czech ... for = pro which takes accusative.

Hmm just seen the wrong word.......

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 07:36 AM

There is a large body of newsreaders who insist on using the adjective "decayed" in the place of the noun "decade". I'm alwasy left wanting to know what the decayed object that they are talking about is.

Also very few people realise that if there is 90% of the population left after a natural disaster that it is correct to say that they have been decimated. The assumption seems to be that there would only be 10% left.

As a general rule where a noun and verb have the same spelling the noun has the stress on the first sylable and the verb on the second, eg. "I'm working on a project." "The upper floors project."

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Penny S.
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 07:38 AM

syllable

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: julian morbihan
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 08:09 AM

In a local pub I read a poster advertising "small steaks poker". I just wonder if they use chips when they play?

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Fiolar
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 08:22 AM

In my local town there is a shop which carries a sign on one of it's windows - "childrenswear". I pointed it out to a friend and he said - "Naughty little things. Their parents should control them."
Also in a history book I read some time ago, there was an item on "The Boar War". Sadly I couldn't find any reference to said war in any area. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 11:01 AM

SPB-Cooperator, I got a smile out of your post at 7:14 am. I'm hoping that your eyes glossed over 'except' and went straight to New Year's (which, by the way, I think is correct).

I remember when I first heard 'I could care less'. This was in the very early 60s; my husband brought it home. When I questioned the logic of it, he said in his defense, That's what they are saying nowadays.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 12:14 PM

Like Janie's "Now Excepting" instead of "Accepting", the majority of the typos I see are not misspellings, but legitimate words -- just the WRONG word, often a homonym or a word that sounds similar.

I was shocked to see "track house" instead of "tract house" in Smithsonian magazine.

I've seen "anecdote" used instead of "antidote" , sight/site/cite confusion, and, of course, two/to/too confusion. One of my favorites was in Milwaukee Magazine in an article about a crowd of rowdies driving around a block and yelling "epitaphs" out the car window at people in front of a house. Spellcheck doesn't catch that sort of thing (or misspellings that are legitimate words).

My favorite AUDIO use of the wrong word was when Boston's "Dapper" O'Neil was being interviewed on WBZ radio. When asked how he got his nickname, he replied that even as a child in a poor family, his mother always made sure he looked "articulate" ... uh huh.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 12:37 PM

An aunt of mine went through an entire conversation using "erotic" instead of "erudite". (at some sort of social function, not amongst close friends)

I wasn't there, unfortunately. It must have been hilarious.

Paws

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 01:01 PM

"After all, we all start out as faeces", a Senator whose name I forget.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Becca72
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 01:02 PM

"America's Most Smartest Model" was named that way on purpose as the contestants were models and not very bright...

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Micca
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 01:06 PM

BG re your 18 Feb 5.04 post Maybe the Draw the keys were in was the same one as the "cloudy draw "in "Ghost Riders in the sky" that the cattle were ascending?
Saw a sign in a liquor store here in the UK advertising " Superior Vin Ordinaire"!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 01:20 PM

Perhaps, Micca, but I don't think it's the same draw. In the west a draw is related to a holler in the South. It is a side section to where one is, for instance, a secluded place where more cattle may be lurking.

(A holler, of course, is a dip, a hollow, often fairly large where there may be a number of homes. It is separate from the mainstream highways.)

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 01:22 PM

Speaking of draw and its derivatives, why does anyone say that they are 'drawring'? I think it is a Massachusetts affliction. In the West we see skething as 'drawing'.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 01:51 PM

It's a carryover from the English accent to say "drawring". The English mostly also say "sawr" instead of "saw". Example: "I sawr a large black raven yesterday, and at once sat down and sketched a drawring of it."

You can hear Al Stewart say "sawr" in a couple of lines in his songs, although his diction is normally impeccable. I always find it a bit disturbing to my North American ears when he does that.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 02:00 PM

Well, without even reading this thread. I know full well that I will have been guilty of most of them.

I still don't know what to do with a semi-colon. It's like one of those gifts you are given by a well meaning relative, but never know what to do with, so it gets left redundant in the spare room...

I suffer from greengrocer's apostrophe, even though I have no excuse. I know what an apostrophe is for but I still place them inaproppriately without thinking, as a consequence of rattled off pieces of writing - especiallly on the interenet!

Aggh! And the one that's really bugging me right now, isn't grammatical. But spelling based. My spelling is poor in general, but in particular I never know where the double consonants come in words like:
reccomend/recommend. And of course now I can't think of any other examples, but they seem to cause me confusion every time I post to Mudcat.

Now on the one hand, I have a love of the English language, which could make me inclined to learn to correct these errors.. Of course within an academic context I would correct as appropriate. Because in my mind, that context renders such details, highly important.

And yet I also have a dislike of literary smugness, where a person is corrected for superficial errors in writing and punctuation rather than the otherwise clear content and meaning of their posting - in casual conversational contexts such as interner fora.

So I prefer to rattle off my posts on here - without spellchekcig, knowing quite full well, as I do, that they will annoy, infuriate or otherwise attract the pompous disdain of the most pedanticaly anally retentive members immensely. Just one very mild expression (and amused) of my anarchic disdain for ANY form of empty and inflated self-asserted "authority".

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 02:10 PM

Oh, and by the way people here, my last post was in no way intended as a criticism of anyone who may have seen/heard an amusing incident involving clumsy or wrong wording/spelling/punctuation.

I was just posting some thoughts I've had for a good while - specifically in context to my own rather poor grammar and spelling, in context of this board and other informal contexts.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 02:36 PM

"knowing quite full well, as I do, that they will annoy, infuriate or otherwise attract the pompous disdain of the most pedanticaly anally retentive members immensely"

LOL! I love it. I have trouble with some of those double-consonant words too.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 04:07 PM

Quoth Sleepy Rosie: "pedanticaly"

Pedantically.


Pedantically yours,
Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Tangledwood
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 04:15 PM

" I read some time ago, there was an item on "The Boar War". Sadly I couldn't find any reference to said war in any area."


The Bay of Pigs?

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Charmion
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 04:50 PM

In an e-mail of formal direction received today at the office:

"All returns to myself by 1600 hr on Friday."

If I were [note subjunctive] Queen of the World, I would restrict the use of reflexive pronouns to those who own a copy of the Chicago Manual of Style (or, for those in Britain, an early edition of Fowler's English Usage) and bloody well use it!

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 05:37 PM

Every now & then I post this for those with spelling problems...or, folks like me who are decent spellers, but bad typists.. (I do LOTS of dyslexic stuff and confuse T & Y)

**If** you use a PC, This program will check your spelling as you type!.

Here is the message I get when I type pedanticly

And here is the area where I can keep a little spelling window, with the offending word in red. (It is not necessary to open the little window...if you don't, it is in your tray.)

The program is free, works as YOU wish, using spelling as you choose. (I have told it *I* wish to spell through as 'thru' without being beeped at)

It simply works...I have used it for 6-7 years, and it starts when Windows starts. I would not type without it.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 06:23 PM

Bill D, I don't understand. I checked on your 'pedanticaly' and it went to a box - but with no instructions or caution, even though I'm sure you know it's misspelled.

So, whut's da use of it?

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: ClaireBear
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 06:28 PM

Before ,oving back to the Sabta Cruz Nountains I used to live in the quaint island town of Alameda. I had a favorite realtor there who fancied herself an artiste of proseody. Her descriptions of homes were hilarious in the extreme.

Linn, this one's for you: she once described a Craftsman home as having "built-in chesterdrawers with acorn escutcheon."

I was just prowling the Web for one of her descriptions; unfortunately they've been toned down over the years, but here's one:

"Meticulously Maintained custom carpentry features of built-in dinning alcove hutch living room bookcase & window bench beneath soaring ceilings & clerestory windows creating bright natural light at the lagoon edge & views of swaying mast"

Can't you just picture it (especially that dinning alcove)?

Claire

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 06:54 PM

Ebbie...that's just a screen capture image of what I see. If the program doesn't like the spelling, I get a beep and the word appears in red.... the other window (which I see simultaneously) is the list I get to choose from. I click the one I 'meant', and the program erases the bad one and puts in the good one in about .4 sec.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Micca
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 08:20 PM

Sleepy Rosie, I suspect a semi-colon maybe somewhere I suggest they can stick a semi-enema

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: ClaireBear
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 08:41 PM

Someone (namely me) didn't get enough sleep last night.

That should have been "Before moving back to the Santa Cruz Mountains" in my previous entry.

Did I mention that I often used, inadvertently, to write journal entries about my "boyfiend"?

Claire

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 09:17 PM

If I had a nickel for every time I corrected "dinning room" ...

I used to typeset a particular Portsmouth area auctioneer's flyers -- besides "dinning" room tables, he tried to sell "liar-back" chairs. "Dinning" was also pretty popular with the realtors who advertised in the Real Estate Guide. I successfully kept it at bay for 3 years.

More will come to me. I really HAVE tried to put that experience behind me.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 03:28 AM

Actually I aughta say, that I don't personally mind people offering corrections *politely*, but what I find most disagreably pompous, is where a posters otherwise *very clear content* is ridiculed or dismissed, because they incorrectly spelled a word or used an apostrophe where it wasn't required.

Having observed this phenomena on Mudcat, it pleases me to rebel very slightly against the self-appointed 'written word police' who are to my mind about as important and interesting as the neighbourhood watch ;-) This is somewhat ridiculous I'm sure, but it represents a symbolic statement on my part (to myself if no-one else) of a matter of principle which is of some importance to me. For there are those out there without a great education, my father is one. He is mildly dyslexic, yet he makes complete sense - with many errors I might add.

If people with either a poor education (someone like a gypsy perhaps, who may possibly have had very little formal education whatever) or some form of dyslexia wish to contribute to boards such as this (and there are no rules specified by *owners* or *moderators* concerning the correct use of English) then they aught to feel comfortable doing so, without having to go through their posts thoroughly before submitting in order to prevent self-appointed 'moderators' running through their posts with a sarcastic virtual 'red pen'.

No-one here is my boss, and no-one here is my tutor. Although, there are indeed some excellent individuals who I respect for their highly intelligent, informed, and interesting posts. Ironically and most tellingly (to my mind) those same posters who I personally esteem most highly for their intellectually stimulating and genuinely authoritative postings, do not seem to indulge in such petty literary pedantry. Perhaps they have more interesting things to be thinking about... ;-)

Now all that aside. I too enjoy funny errors in the written word, and in speech. One of the classics that I've heard several times, has no doubt already been thrown up: 'Organism' without the 'ni'?

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 05:13 AM

Anyone who wishes / needs to know more about the correct use of semi-colons and other useful punctuation should get a copy of "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" by Lynne Truss.

It's hilarious, and very informative as well. Now I know why I spent hours agonising over the desirability of commas in some text. It's called an "Oxford comma", and has grammarians disagreeing violently over their port.

(For those who don't know, the phrase "sausage, egg, and chips" may have one or two commas according to taste. The second one is the optional "Oxford" comma)

Grammarians should obviously get out more - but punctuation is very useful to try and and indicate the phrasing of what one is trying to say when using the written word.

Paws

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: TheSnail
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 07:07 AM

I absolutely agree with Rosie when she says "what I find most disagreably pompous, is where a posters otherwise *very clear content* is ridiculed or dismissed, because they incorrectly spelled a word or used an apostrophe where it wasn't required."

If the only way you can attack someone is picking holes in their spelling or grammar rather than tackling their genuine and well argued case, it is tantamount to admitting that you have lost the argument. It is unfogivable. It is beneath contempt.

I hardly ever do it.

In the case mentioned by Insane Beard above, the usage I took exception to was "I could of added...". Passing over the true horror of that blunder, the point is that it was made by someone who worships Englishness, albeit a totally fictional Englishness largely of his own invention. If he couldn't even get the bloody language right, 'e 'ad it cumin'.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 09:17 AM

Wolfhound Person: "(For those who don't know, the phrase "sausage, egg, and chips" may have one or two commas according to taste. The second one is the optional "Oxford" comma)"

I didn't know that about the 'Oxford comma'. And despite what may have come over as something of a rant in my last two postings on this thread, I also find it jolly interesting! ;-)

One of the things I never used to do - as I believed it to be bad English, was begin a sentence with 'And'. Well, now it appears to be acceptable. So I use it in instances where it functions pragmatically to prevent otherwise potentially lengthy sentences becoming unweildly for the reader.

A beautifully constructed piece of English prose is of course a genuine delight to read. And I rather wish that I hadn't myself, missed out such great chunks of fundamental early learning in the basics of how to form good written English.

So, as said, while I take absolutely no issue with those who find the details of the English language fascinating, and nor do I take issue with the real value of having at ones disposal the skills of accurately expressing oneself via the written word. The only thing I personally object to is where academic rigour is uneccesarily applied by self-appointed 'authorities', to informal conversational contexts such as internet fora. For this I fear, can be genuinely intimidating and alienating to those who do not have a particularly good background in written English at their disposal. And of course the somewhat sad irony of this, is that Mudcat of all places is a 'folk' forum... And without wanting to engage into the details of 'what is folk', and without having to resort to my OED I obviously already know that 'folk' refers to "the common people". Now while I don't know what "common people" means to most others, but I am fairly sure that "the common people" (in my neck of the woods at least), don't genereally go around correcting each others minor grammatical errors...

Many Catters come from well educated backgrounds, many of them are involved in academia at one level or another. And while this in itself makes Mudcat a highly interesting and erudite place for the most part, it could also be intimidating to those who don't come from similar backgrounds or have the same degree of mastery over written English as the majority here may do.

Otherwise, it's all great stuff. And in fact I see examples of delightfully formed prose on Mudcat, most days. I like it when I find someone using an interesting word that I don't understand. I look it up, and hey presto, I now have another word at my own disposal.

So on the 'pro' side of correct English useage, I object *strongly* to the media (and *especially* the Beeb "British Broadcasting Service") taking lax liberties with our language. I disagree strongly with the adoption of American pronounciation amongst 'British information services'. Not because I dislike American pronounciation. But we have standard English pronounciation which works perfectly well as it stands and it requires no alteration that would serve any useful purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 09:24 AM

Blast, I submitted that before finishing it! But then, I think I've probably stood on my personal soapbox rather enough already here! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 10:00 AM

Dozy Rosie (sorry, couldn't resist!)
Starting sentences with 'And' is nothing new, I used to annoy my teachers by doing so. Being in a church school I just quoted the example of the first line of the second book of Luke: "And it came to pass in those days,that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus,that all the world should be taxed."

Cheers
Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 03:31 PM

Nigel Parsons: "Dozy Rosie (sorry, couldn't resist!)"

Well Nigel Parsons I object strongly to your use of my Mudcat ID in such a clearly ridiculing fashion.

But primarily because - I can't find *anything* even mildly amusing, to rhyme with 'Parsons'...

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 03:46 PM

Oh, and a LOL! @ Micca below...

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Anne Lister
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 05:59 PM

Someone on the radio this evening talked of "crawling out of the wormwood", which I quite like as an image even if it is a little confused.

Anne

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 06:30 PM

Sign in the window of a pharmacy....."WE DISPENSE WITH ACCURACY".


Article from well known British newspaper (well known for misprints).

"The case was handed over to John Standish, a defective in the Greater Manchester Police Force".

This was then followed by an apology and retraction in the next issue, as follows:-

"We apologise for the misprint in relation to Mr. Standish. The sentence should, of course have read ""John Standish, a detective in the Greater Manchester Police Farce"".

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: World's best grammatical howlers
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 08:17 PM

On a related note, I did a double take a few years back (well, about 15) when a customer came into the print and copy shop I worked in to photocopy a campaign pamphlet from the 1970s entitled, " The Principles and Convictions of Spiro T. Agnew"...

Uh huh. We now know all about the CONVICTIONS!

Linn