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BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day

Ebbie 16 Mar 09 - 12:55 AM
gnu 15 Mar 09 - 06:19 PM
GUEST,Charmion's brother Andrew 23 Feb 09 - 08:07 AM
GUEST,meself 22 Feb 09 - 02:46 PM
gnu 22 Feb 09 - 01:36 PM
gnu 22 Feb 09 - 01:23 PM
GUEST,Charmion's brother Andrew 22 Feb 09 - 12:26 PM
GUEST,meself 22 Feb 09 - 10:58 AM
gnu 21 Feb 09 - 08:12 PM
GUEST,meself 21 Feb 09 - 07:05 PM
GUEST,Charmion's brother Andrew 21 Feb 09 - 03:59 PM
number 6 21 Feb 09 - 02:35 PM
number 6 21 Feb 09 - 02:23 PM
gnu 21 Feb 09 - 02:19 PM
Stringsinger 21 Feb 09 - 02:12 PM
Little Hawk 21 Feb 09 - 01:33 PM
meself 21 Feb 09 - 12:19 PM
Ed T 21 Feb 09 - 11:27 AM
Ebbie 21 Feb 09 - 10:33 AM
Bob the Postman 21 Feb 09 - 09:36 AM
GUEST,Charmion's brother Andrew 21 Feb 09 - 08:56 AM
Megan L 21 Feb 09 - 05:38 AM
gnu 21 Feb 09 - 04:34 AM
Little Hawk 20 Feb 09 - 10:46 PM
Peter T. 20 Feb 09 - 08:58 PM
Little Hawk 20 Feb 09 - 07:04 PM
Little Hawk 20 Feb 09 - 06:56 PM
meself 20 Feb 09 - 06:54 PM
Peter T. 20 Feb 09 - 06:28 PM
gnu 20 Feb 09 - 05:50 PM
Peace 20 Feb 09 - 04:16 PM
meself 20 Feb 09 - 04:09 PM
Peace 20 Feb 09 - 04:05 PM
Peace 20 Feb 09 - 04:01 PM
meself 20 Feb 09 - 03:58 PM
Little Hawk 20 Feb 09 - 03:56 PM
Peace 20 Feb 09 - 03:51 PM
Peter T. 20 Feb 09 - 03:45 PM
Peace 20 Feb 09 - 03:43 PM
Little Hawk 20 Feb 09 - 03:37 PM
3refs 20 Feb 09 - 03:23 PM
gnu 20 Feb 09 - 02:50 PM
Charmion 20 Feb 09 - 02:43 PM
Stringsinger 20 Feb 09 - 02:39 PM
bankley 20 Feb 09 - 07:18 AM
gnu 20 Feb 09 - 04:40 AM
Little Hawk 20 Feb 09 - 01:42 AM
GUEST,Peace 20 Feb 09 - 01:40 AM
Little Hawk 20 Feb 09 - 12:55 AM
Peace 20 Feb 09 - 12:52 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 12:55 AM

Earlier in this thread there wss a passing discussion of German POWs in Canada and that they did not return home immediately.

I used to go with a former POW. He was captured in 1943 at the age of 19 in a French vineyard by an American tank corps.

He was brought to the US for the duration, first in North Carolina and then in Alabama.

He said that during FDR's tenure the prisoners ate well, even chocolate cake, which, given how starved they were in France, gave him a much needed 30 pounds. After FDR died, it was a different story- spartan fare, plenty of it but spartan.

When the war ended the POWs were not allowed to return home because Germany wasn't able to feed even itself. The POWs were given a choice of where they wanted to go. My friend chose England which is where he remained, helping with crops, until 1948.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: gnu
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 06:19 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: gnu - PM
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 05:41 AM

heric... "No there a big crybaby thread about how he went to Mexico first."

No. We were pointing out that Bush went to Mexico first because he thought Mexico was the largest trading partner of the US.
*********************************************************************

Why didn't he go to Mexico first?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: GUEST,Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 08:07 AM

Ahmed Said Khadr was killed by Pakistani forces during a raid in South Waziristan on 2 October 2003. Omar's brother was left a paraplegic as a result of the same raid.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 02:46 PM

The father was killed some time ago now; I believe in a raid of some Al- Q...da nest in the Middle East somewhere.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: gnu
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 01:36 PM

Gosh. His old man did a lot of great work funding relief aid, hospitals... conflicting reports about his death, tho.

I wonder why the Yanks falsified docs and such. Maybe we'll never know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: gnu
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 01:23 PM

Where is the lad's old man, anyway?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: GUEST,Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 12:26 PM

It was Ignatieff who raised the matter of Khadr with Obama, IOW, not someone who was a member of the government of the day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 10:58 AM

"Much of it, you would not believe... unless your old man told you."

Well, apparently this is precisely what happened with Khadr - he believed what his old man told him - which was that he should come with him to the other side of the world and join the cause. You or I would have done the same at that age, I have no doubt.

.................................

Something I was going to mention earlier, to give the devil his due: a news report I heard that Harper (or was it one of the other big shots? maybe Ignatieff - I know there's a difference) did raise the question of Khadr with Obama, and Obama's reply was that all the case at Git-mo are under review.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: gnu
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 08:12 PM

Treated fairly decently? Many ended up in sick bay on the prisoner ships after they were loaded on board because they were stabbed in the ass with bayonets upon boarding. Many of them suffered from malnutrition because a weak prisoner is easier to control and grub was scarce.

I not have followed the plight of the 14 year old Canuck who had the money and the wherewithall to travel half way round the earth to gain training and take up arms against the infidels and get caught up in it all, but I do have some knowledge of what happened in WW2 as it applies to the treatment of prisoners taken to Canada in WW2. My old man told me. He was there.

He told me a lot of stuff. Much of it, you would not believe... unless your old man told you.

As for that 14 year old boy, he should not have been there in the first place... there should have been no "there" in the first place. It is all so disgusting and horrid.

But, in war, the soldiers suffer, the people suffer... politicians and rich prosper. It's disgusting and horrid.... and beyond.

Megan.... others... would I really have laid him to waste if it was me? I dunno... I wasn't "there". 50/50 really...


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 07:05 PM

Of course we had German POWs. We didn't charge them with spurious crimes, though, and from anything I've read or heard, we treated them fairly decently. There's no comparison.

And, I was talking specifically about Hitler Youth - how many fourteen or fifteen-old-year Germans were held for seven years in Canadian camps, awaiting prosecution for phony crimes?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: GUEST,Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 03:59 PM

A significant number of German PWs did not want to return. I suspect that one of the reasons for not sending them back faster was a lack of transport. Canada did not rank highly when it came to obtaining personnel lift, and what West-to-East lift it had was first given to reinforcement of the formation that made up the occupation force.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: number 6
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 02:35 PM

"We didn't keep members of the Hitler Youth locked up for seven or more years"

... huh .... they most certainly where locked up here in Canada .... many German POW's were not sent back until well past the war's end.

My father (an officer) in the Canadian army was a POW interrogator after the war was over .. whose job was to weed out German SS who disguised themselves as regular German infantry.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: number 6
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 02:23 PM

She is brilliant ... too brilliant for public office.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: gnu
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 02:19 PM

meself... are you saying that Canada never imprisoned "Prisoners Of War" taken in Europe?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 02:12 PM

If I were a Canadian citizen, I would vote for Naomi Klein. She's brilliant!


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 01:33 PM

I've been saying for years that William Shatner should be leader of the entire North American continent...if not the World. I'm glad to see he's stepping up to the plate now with this offer to become the next Prime Minister of Canada. ;-) It's a good start.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: meself
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 12:19 PM

"nor did I know that the US military altered and falsified documents"

This seems to be "on the record" now, and I don't believe anyone is disputing it.

But even if he were guilty, as LH says, it's war. We didn't keep members of the Hitler Youth locked up for seven or more years. The German novelist Gunter Gross (sp.?) in a memoir/confession regarding his war experience in the Hitler Youth, related his experience as part of a anti-aircraft gun crew that shot down a Canadian plane - should we go after him?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 11:27 AM

William Shatner's solution to Canada's political plight:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4854183a1860.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 10:33 AM

I saw this thread yesterday but this morning I read the title as
'Canada Sucking up to Obama Dry'. Which is it? :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 09:36 AM

I don't watch TV but the buzz in the lunch room at work was that, during the post-meeting joint press conference, Harper's demenour was that of the recently spanked. As Peace wrote, "However, he'd obviously been told that some things were NOT for discussion." Later, Ignatieff stated that Canada would have a presence in Afghanistan long after the legislated end-date of the military mission. My take on it is that Harper is eager to be Obama's poodle but Obama's handlers have long since picked a different, more Ivy League, puppy from the litter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: GUEST,Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 08:56 AM

Charmion wrote: "You should see the front page of the Ottawa Citizen today. Holy cats; I haven't seen such roll-on-the-floor adulation since the Chuck-n-Di show came to town circa 1985. There'll be no living with the BeaverTails people now."

The Regional Health Officer reports that there have been no cases of scrofula on the Byward Market since Obama's visit. This is a good thing. :^)


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Megan L
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 05:38 AM

Of course he doesnt believe it hes a politician


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: gnu
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 04:34 AM

Okay. Fair enough. I did not know that he was innocent nor did I know that the US military altered and falsified documents.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 10:46 PM

I agree, Peter. Obama's position on Afghanistan and Al Queda is totally delusional.

However....he'd never have been electable in the first place if he'd not vowed to continue fighting "the terrorists" and securing victory in Afghanistan, would he?

I wonder if Obama really believes the stuff he says about Afghanistan and Al Queda? It would be interesting to know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 08:58 PM

Of course, in spite of what I said, this is completely delusional:

President Obama was asked this week by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation if Afghanistan is still winnable.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: "I think Afghanistan is still winnable, in the sense of our ability to ensure that it is not a launching pad for attacks against North America. I think it's still possible for us to stamp out al-Qaida, to make sure that extremism is not expanding but rather is contracting. I think all those goals are still possible, but I think that as a consequence to the war on Iraq, we took our eye off the ball. We have not been as focused as we need to be on all the various steps that are needed in order to deal with Afghanistan."

Oh sure, there are weasel words in there, but the truth is you can no more stamp out Al-Qaeda, than you can stamp out globs of mercury. He seems to believe, like Georgie Boy, that it is some army somewhere lurking. It is a loose chain of militant Muslims all over the place.

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 07:04 PM

Guys, regarding the 15 year old lad Khadr who threw a grenade...

He was fighting in a war. He picked his side, the American soldiers picked their side. They were both trying their best to kill the people on the other side, and they both figured they were in the right to do it. Khadr got caught and he's in prison.

So....would you feel just great about some American soldiers getting caught and imprisoned in some hole like Guantanamo for years for simply doing in battle what is normally done in battle? I bet you wouldn't.

American soldiers ARE the terrorists in the eyes of many of those they are fighting against on foreign ground. People here seem to forget that.

I do not regard a human being as a criminal monster deserving permanent imprisonment just because he happens to have been serving on the other side in a war. War is war. The people on both sides aim to kill. That's reality.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 06:56 PM

Beautifully put, Peter. That's how I see it too. I wish Obama all the luck in the world, because, by God, he needs it right now!

I was surprised how well Harper conducted himself. I have decided I dislike him less than I thought I did. I think, though, that Ignatieff will be the next Prime Minister in awhile from now. Then we'll see what he's got.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: meself
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 06:54 PM

gnu - I'm afraid you haven't been following that case. Besides the fact that the boy was only fourteen at the time - or was it fifteen? - there is little if any reason to believe he threw a grenade or killed anyone. Last I heard, it seems likely that US soldiers were throwing grenades over the wall where it happened, coincidentally no doubt, that one of theirs was killed by a grenade. Friendly fire, in other words.

The boy was indeed lucky to be "allowed to live" - when he was lying on the ground full of bullets, it is reported, and the report has not been disputed, that a soldier was about to execute him, when an order came from higher up that they wanted a prisoner ... Has anyone yet heard a word of objection to this proposed murder of a wounded enemy child-soldier? I haven't. When the original official report of the action was written, it did not state that Kahdr threw the grenade that killed the medic; the report was altered shortly after so that there would be someone to take revenge on. And as other eye-witness accounts and reports have emerged, it looks less and less likely that Kadhr killed anybody.

Furthermore, there have been several resignations of US military personnel from the case in protest against its on-going injustice. These are not only lawyers appointed to defend Kahdr, but the last I heard was the trial judge, who refused to preside over a farce of a trial.

Let me make that clear: these are members of the USAF who quit the court in protest. And yet you seem to think the treatment this young man has received is just fine and dandy. It's no wonder Harper and the Conservatives haven't bothered to speak up on this matter ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 06:28 PM

I have no complaint with Obama. In fact I am fascinated with his situation: here he is, someone who, as far as I can tell, is quite sane, decent, very, very well read, intelligent, and of a naturally cheery disposition, and who has been given the worst toxic agenda of crap anyone can possibly imagine left by that dolt Bush. I just don't see how he can wade through it all. His economy is a complete disaster, health care is in ruins, the country is involved in two stupid wars, the climate is deteriorating at a faster rate than ever, and Bush wrecked all the international good will there was going, trampled on the treaties, treated everyone with contempt or carelessness.

I can't imagine how he is going to solve all this.   

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: gnu
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 05:50 PM

Peace... more Kowtow? I didn't think so. I thought he did great. (And, as you may be aware, until yesterday, I despised the miserable fucker... now, I simply loathe him.)

No nasty stuff, but still made the proper points. He did not kiss ass or kick ass. But, he was clear on our "relationship". Mutually beneficial.

As for that Canuck lad in US custody... when you throw grenades at US soldiers and kill, being allowed to live is a fuckin bonus, no matter where it is. Seriously, now.... if I or you had been there, would that little shit still be breathing?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Peace
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 04:16 PM

Indeed I have given thought as to how one might structure a defense in depth. In the day we hide in taverns and at night in folk clubs. Real partisans will wear pink or some other mutually-agreed-to gauche colour, but not TELL anyone. Garlic on the bullets, fake bombs that when they fall blare really loud but bad music and we piss in the beer vats at Molson's. The Americans, seldon having had real beer would drink it anyway. Stuff like that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: meself
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 04:09 PM

Ah! I see you've been giving this some thought. We'll have to get together and start planning our defences.

"IMO--without question--the Yanks would kick the crap out of us."

What?! You need another beer, buddy; get yuh thinking straight.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Peace
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 04:05 PM

Hi, meself.

It could become a reality in the future. IMO--without question--the Yanks would kick the crap out of us. BUT, this country has more people who really know and understand the bush, mountains, rivers--much like the Afghans or VC did and do. They'd have to find us to kill us. They have excellet special warfare troops. But even they don't live through well-executed ambushes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Peace
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 04:01 PM

Harper spoke well, indeed. However, he'd obviously been told that some things were NOT for discussion. We still have a Canuck citizen who's spent years in Guantanimo. WTF. So, IMO, with respect to your observation LH, it constituted more Canadian kowtow for our neighbours to the south.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: meself
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 03:58 PM

"We are not the 51st State. On this issue I'd lay down my life for this country."

I wonder if Canadian boys still fantasize about joining the partisans and waging guerilla war against the invading American military machine? (I do - and I see I'm not alone!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 03:56 PM

It's just that we are so delighted to be noticed by the collosus to the South! ;-) It happens so rarely. One must savour the moment when it comes. I don't like Harper's politics, but I did think he spoke rather well at the news conference.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Peace
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 03:51 PM

Children would give us a better chance, Peter. I like Obama, but the 'manifest destiny' crap that seems to be creeping into all this is horseshi--well, ya know.

We are not the 51st State. On this issue I'd lay down my life for this country.

It would be real nice if Harper showed some balls. I wish our PM would stop walking so closely behind US Presidents--if they stop shor he'll be in upto his shoulders. It is disgusting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 03:45 PM

Yes sir, we certainly roll over to have our stomach tickled.

Some of us remember Ronald "The World War II Vet who never left Hollywood" Reagan dazzling Canada singing "When Irish Eyes Are Smiling" with Brian Mulroney.

I mean really. Is this a country of children or what?

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Peace
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 03:43 PM

Brains. Brains are what it's all about. That and disposition.

Lie about my age? For shame. I'm 437 but I don't look a day over 261.

LH, if the science establishment ever finds me I will be kidnapped.

FACT: I can drink two 8 oz cups of coffee and turn it into 1 1/2 gallons of urine. No kidding.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 03:37 PM

Ha! Ha! Ha! Oh, brother...!

******

I have no interest whatsoever in Wynona Judd. Big Judds aren't particularly what I look for in a woman. I prefer small to medium Judds, generally speaking...but what really attracts me is the right combination of eyes, facial features, and expression of same, plus a general sort of physical grace.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: 3refs
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 03:23 PM

With all due respect!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhTZ_tgMUdo


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: gnu
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 02:50 PM

Same here! The headlines... "Obama Dazzles Canada".

WTF?

Oh, yeah.... read the thread title again. Jaysus!


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Charmion
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 02:43 PM

You should see the front page of the Ottawa Citizen today. Holy cats; I haven't seen such roll-on-the-floor adulation since the Chuck-n-Di show came to town circa 1985. There'll be no living with the BeaverTails people now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Stringsinger
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 02:39 PM

The jury is out on Obama as it was with FDR when he first was elected, who by the way despite historical revisionism pull the US out of the Great Depression. I was there!

Canada has the wisdom to be grateful that they don't have to contend with Bush and his policies any more.

The key to Obama's approach is that he was a community organizer on the streets of South Chicago. To get anything done for the benefit of the country, he has to attempt to pull people together with different ideas. I can only hope it'll work in his presidency.

Canada sucked up to Harper. As Naomi Klein has said, that was more of the same Shock Doctrine at work. Obama is Harper.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: bankley
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 07:18 AM

what about the other Wynona, the one with the big Judds ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: gnu
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 04:40 AM

"... pee so much."

That's good for a firefighter, right?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 01:42 AM

I'm not sure I can trust you when it comes to Winona. I think you might be fibbing about your age.

Say you were to drink about five glasses of water in the next minute or two. How soon after that would you need to pee? And for how long?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 01:40 AM

I am 786, but I don't look a day over 203. (That's why I pee so much.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 12:55 AM

Yeah? Prove it.

Just how old are you, anyway???


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada Sucking Up To Obama Day
From: Peace
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 12:52 AM

LH: I will say this once: I am much older than you and I SAW HER FIRST.


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