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Singers - still get in free - 2009

Ian Fyvie 28 Feb 09 - 11:04 AM
Terry McDonald 28 Feb 09 - 11:09 AM
Ian Fyvie 28 Feb 09 - 11:18 AM
Leadfingers 28 Feb 09 - 11:53 AM
Terry McDonald 28 Feb 09 - 12:20 PM
Terry McDonald 28 Feb 09 - 12:24 PM
VirginiaTam 28 Feb 09 - 12:50 PM
Richard Bridge 28 Feb 09 - 12:58 PM
VirginiaTam 28 Feb 09 - 01:04 PM
Richard Bridge 28 Feb 09 - 02:41 PM
VirginiaTam 28 Feb 09 - 02:52 PM
Ian Fyvie 28 Feb 09 - 09:48 PM
breezy 01 Mar 09 - 04:18 AM
Dave Sutherland 01 Mar 09 - 06:10 AM
G-Force 01 Mar 09 - 06:20 AM
Leadfingers 01 Mar 09 - 06:29 AM
evansakes 01 Mar 09 - 06:40 AM
alex s 01 Mar 09 - 07:37 AM
breezy 01 Mar 09 - 01:15 PM
Ian Fyvie 01 Mar 09 - 02:16 PM
Richard Bridge 01 Mar 09 - 02:16 PM
breezy 01 Mar 09 - 02:32 PM
Ref 01 Mar 09 - 02:54 PM
The Sandman 01 Mar 09 - 02:54 PM
GUEST,SussexCarole 01 Mar 09 - 03:05 PM
Diva 01 Mar 09 - 04:13 PM
Suegorgeous 01 Mar 09 - 04:30 PM
The Sandman 01 Mar 09 - 05:46 PM
Herga Kitty 01 Mar 09 - 06:30 PM
Ian Fyvie 01 Mar 09 - 07:37 PM
Girl Friday 01 Mar 09 - 07:43 PM
GUEST,Smokey 01 Mar 09 - 08:03 PM
Dame Pattie Smith EPNS 01 Mar 09 - 08:23 PM
Suzi Z 02 Mar 09 - 03:07 AM
Banjiman 02 Mar 09 - 04:05 AM
Jim McLean 02 Mar 09 - 05:03 AM
evansakes 02 Mar 09 - 05:07 AM
The Sandman 02 Mar 09 - 06:27 AM
Dave Sutherland 02 Mar 09 - 07:17 AM
TheSnail 02 Mar 09 - 07:45 AM
breezy 02 Mar 09 - 01:15 PM
Dave Earl 02 Mar 09 - 02:07 PM
Zany Mouse 02 Mar 09 - 06:07 PM
The Sandman 03 Mar 09 - 12:39 PM
breezy 03 Mar 09 - 01:45 PM
TheSnail 03 Mar 09 - 01:54 PM
breezy 03 Mar 09 - 01:54 PM
Leadfingers 03 Mar 09 - 02:56 PM
Zany Mouse 03 Mar 09 - 03:36 PM
GUEST,PeterC 03 Mar 09 - 07:24 PM
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Subject: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 11:04 AM

Where can floor singers still go - and get in free - to the Folk Club?

It's important to know because quite few clubs say "Floor singers welcome" but still charge singers full admission - perhaps (and only perhaps) a refund if you sing.

Obviously bar sessions don't need to be mentioned here but a 'free entry" singaround club in a seperate function room counts as some singarounds clubs or club nights charge - everybody!!

So where can we singers go and know know we won't be charged to get in?

Let's kick off with Brighton & Hove City - South Coast of Engaland.

Tuesdays - every week - Round Georges pub (Club Room Downstairs), Sutherland Road, Kemptown, Brighton. 8.30pm onwards. Club type: Singaround with occasional guests.

Wednesdays - every week - Crown and Anchor pub, Preston village (main A23 road). Clubroom at back of pub, by car park. 8.30pm onwards. Club type Singaround - slight traditional bias but all styles nevertheless welcome.

Sundays - every week - venue C&A pub as above. Singer -songwriters particularly wecome on Sundays.

There are other folk sessions in the city which I'll leave for the organisers to submit. The only ones I have been to are te above so only have second hand info.

So... the free entry clubs (for singers) in your area? Look forward to reading about them below!

Ian Fyvie


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 11:09 AM

Wimborne, Dorset. Every Thursday at the British Legion. It's a singaround format and admission is free. However, we do pass a collecting tin around during the interval and people normally put £1 in. The money goes to the British Legion who do not charge us for using their premises.


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 11:18 AM

Nice one Terry.

Are any of the "Cottage Industry" lads still singing in your area?

Ian Fyvie


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Leadfingers
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 11:53 AM

Sadly , very few Pub Managers or landlords are content to let Clubs use their premises free of charge , except for 'sessions' in the bar , so some kind of payment has to be levied , if only to pay for the room !


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 12:20 PM

I couldn't place Cottage Industry at first but a quick Google revealed all. Tich is still playing at sessions around the area and Clive Jennings was a regular at Wimborne until a few months ago. Not sure why he's stopped coming. I've not seen Peter Birnie in years but remember him well from the glory days of the Wessex Trad club in Bouremouth.


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 12:24 PM

Oh, and Steve Faulkner is also a regular at Wimborne. Put Wimborne Sessions into Google and you'll find pictures of Clive and Steve.


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 12:50 PM

Free you ask?

1st Thursday of the month - Blackmore Folk club (now in Exile) at the Rose and Crown (upstairs function room) in Writtle (near Chelmsford) Essex.
Hosted by the very talented Alan Francis (Mudcat known as LanFranc).
Starts at 8:30. Almost always crowded.

2nd Thursday of the month - Red Lion, Margaretting, (near Chelmsford) Essex.
Hosted by???(I think his name is Paul)
Starts 8:30. Very well attended by excellent musos and one clogger with his own board. I haven't been for some time. Must go back.

Last Sunday of the month - Nags Head pub, Lower Stoke, Kent.
Hosted by the effervescent Richard Bridge (Mudcat known as Richard Bridge).
Starts at 12:30. Only 3 sessions old but very well attended by stellar musos. May only run outside of festival season - waiting to see.


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 12:58 PM

Technically the Nags is a bar session, not a club. But thank you for the kind words. Weren't Brian and Marion ROdgers (No Worries) good last week?

Incidentally it's ROUGHLY the last Sunday of the Month to avoid clashes with big screen TV Association Football)

Next two sessions 29th March and 26th April.

May definitely NOT on the 31st May -


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 01:04 PM

ARRGGHH! I wasn't there. I missed them. So not fair.

I sit corrected, but on the pub website it says folk club doesn't it?


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 02:41 PM

I blooped. Not 26th April (too much going on that Georgy weekend) but 19th April.

Yes, but It would be a lot of trouble to educate Peter the landlord in the niceties, and above on this thread it does make it clear that the distinction for the purposes of this thread is clubs (ie separate room) from bar sessions and we are definitely a bar session.

Incidentally the guitar in the banner for the folkclub on the blogspot shows an electric guitar headstock, bit I ahve not kicked up about that either.

Shall we now leave this thread less sidetracked and talk Stoke on the Stoke 29 Mar thread?


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 02:52 PM

Ok then the Margaretting one stated above is also a bar session.

But Blackmore (now in Writtle) is definitely a club. And free.


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 09:48 PM

Leadfingers - I appreciate it can be difficult to get a free function room for a folk club but just think "Market Forces".

If a publican would rather have lots of extra drinkers even if they're in a function room; rather than an emplty pub, then you should be able to find a pub where you can 'do a deal'.

Of course it would be hard on a Friday or Saturday when bookings are most likely, but if you're able to negotiate a "quiet night' in the week AND can have a bit of flexibility if the odd booking did come in on that quiet night - it should be OK.

A Singaround club I visited last year moves to the CHurch Hall once or twice a year for that reason - but so long as you get reasonable notice then it shouldn't be much of a problem for a Singaround club.

Terry! Thanks for the info - my regards to anyone who remembers me (25 years ago!!!)


Ian Fyvie


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: breezy
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 04:18 AM

Back to the thread topic

As a succesful folk club organiser it would have not been possible to book major guests without the support of quality entry paying 'floor singers cum residents'

jf you expect all floor singers to enter a folk club for free then how the hell is the club going to grow and survive

I find this attitude very selfish.

just stick to the sessions

I know tales about where artistes pay to sing as support for main acts, though these have come from the U S


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 06:10 AM

Since our residents/floor singers on an average night run into double figures it would be a false economy to have a floor singers free rule; after all the najority will have come to see the guest for whom the club has to pay.
Tonight I will be helping set the room out, MC-ing the evening and clearing the place up afterwards. But I'll still pay my entrance fee!


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: G-Force
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 06:20 AM

I agree with breezy. If a 'club' charges, because it has expenses of whatever kind, why would you expect to get in free? If singers/musos keep turning up and the club thrives, then great, everyone is happy. Why would you expect them to let you in for nothing?


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Leadfingers
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 06:29 AM

Mr Fyvie - Finding a landlord who is NOT a Money grubbing grasper is the easy bit round here - Very few pubs even HAVE a function room any where these days ! They have nearly all been opened up as One Bar Pubs.


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: evansakes
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 06:40 AM

Why on earth should floor singers ever expect to get into a club for free?

It's a complete nonsense...anyone who expects free entry is on a total 'vanity' trip and clearly has no interest in or respect for either the club or the professional performers who are trying to make a living. Many are so self absorbed that they don't even hang around after they've performed.

We gave up free entry many years ago (offering a 50% reduction instead) and it was one of the best things we've ever done. This still leaves a small reward for performing but the club and/or artist aren't disadvantaged. As a result practically all the vain time-wasters disappeared overnight (good riddance) leaving only those who had the interests of the club at heart. Invariably these were the performers of the highest standard.

Funny that, isn't it?


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: alex s
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 07:37 AM

Burnley folk club is free to all (singers and audience)- we pass a glass round if we remember. There may be a small charge on very special guest nights but the club philosophy is to keep things as non-commercial as possible. No pa system either - we believe in acoustic performance and the room is small enough to do it in. Some very distinguished guests have commented favourably on the "back to the roots" atmosphere.
Come and see us -

www.burnleyfolkclub.co.uk

for directions.

Alex


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: breezy
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 01:15 PM

Thank you Richard Bridge for your openess, honesty and good luck to your venture

O K Burnley, you are not a folk 'club' you are a folk session/gathering.

To reset/re-evaluate your status to be called a folk club show us see your guest list for the last 10 weeks

Good luck , keep up the good work

Ian Fyvie, you are by definition according to real folk club organisers   a Vanitinarian. I like that Twicks.

So pay up and support the real folk scene


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 02:16 PM

Lots of Payclub organizers whingeing - Brilliant!!

I'm not the slightest bit interested in being fodder for the big names Orgaizers fawn over. Nor am I the slightest bit interested in supporting the Folk wing of the music industry - not the slightest!!

WHAT I AM interested in getting ordinary people with a bit of talent and a like of folk music to give it a try and join the old folk tradition where people share music with each other.

I could go a session tomorrow night and get one floorsong, and see a well known artist for nothing at the end of the evening (the new 'half-and half' formula which is becoming popular). No thanks! - not worth getting the guitar out for (no offence to the artist - who's a decent bloke).

I can go to a singaround folk club on Tuesday instead and sing three along with anyone else who wants to have a go - now that IS worthwhile as far as I'm concerned. And this, Breezy, is just as much part of the REAL folk scene as orgaizers dribbling over the lists of guests they have booked.

Twickfolk SHOULD know that I'm not attacking the Payclubs for existing, creating a living for pro singers or getting big names to new punters - fine - all for expanding folk.

What I think is despicable, however, is the way some of the Payclub elite think their clubs are the ONLY sort of folk clubs; their favourite guests are the only ones worth listening to, and the only mark of success in folk is lots of bookings, CDs and festival appearances.

This is the same old rubbish that commercial publishing interests have been peddling for years - ie. only those artists they signed up are 'Good"; and "Vanity" accusations are the the main weapons against the talent they haven't signed/can't sign. This Vanity lark goes back to the days of Charles Dickens - the great man himself was a victim of these pathetic elitists I believe.

Lastly - can I suggest that people look carefully the reason for this thread, it is a positive, forward looking thread to let floor singers know where they CAN support a folk club and not pay to sing (paying to play is a joke in rock music).

If the Big Boys and Girls don't like their cages rattled, they can avoid this thread, can't they!


Ian Fyvie


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 02:16 PM

I suspect that what we are seeing here is a bit of a clash between the 60s ethos - long live the revolution brothers, through dope, music, and fucking in the streets, death to the man and the pigs, peace love add understanding and thank you brother for sharing ou have paid your dues and contributed so we are all equal, on the one hand and 80s/90s Thatcherwasm on the other - are you profitable, you are not a person but an economic unit, there is no such thing as society.


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: breezy
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 02:32 PM

Most of these so called 'floor singers' are not, because they are not good enough to be given floor spots in proper folk clubs.

A session is a good place to start though, therefore they have a purpose.

The Herga folk club is a real singers club, run by singers for singers and we all pay our monetary dues and have done for over 40 + years

then there's Tuesdays at Cecil Sharp's

They also have a booking policy, 2 examples only of well run clubs, proper clubs.

If you do not attend real folkclubs with 'name' guests you are not truly supportive.

and sod the comparison with rock

I always expect to pay and when a session is free I think it is under achieving and could do better and go further but that takes bottle by someone to organise things properly


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Ref
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 02:54 PM

Our now defunct local Coffee House used to allow open mike performers in for free. I performed 2-3 times but always paid anyway. It never ceased to amuse and disgust me that some spongers would get in free regularly by signing up to spew their ridiculous "slam" poetry. This ain't Thatcherism. It's taking on the responsibility of supporting your community.


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 02:54 PM

Lastly - can I suggest that people look carefully the reason for this thread, it is a positive, forward looking thread to let floor singers know where they CAN support a folk club and not pay to sing (paying to play is a joke in rock music).
there is one very good commercial reason ,for letting floor singers in either free or at a reduced rate:it brings more people to the pub,who then have a little more money to buy beer /soft drinks,this keeps the publican happy .
the nucleus of a good club are singers,without singers ,the organiser   has either to pay people to do a support or have residents ,that he can rely on .
if an organiser seems short of floor singers ,it would seem a good idea to encourage people to sing, to let them in free.
if he /she finds that all he/ she is getting are poor singers,he can change the system .,
but as far as the landlord is concerned all he wants is numbers,if it means that the only way of getting people to a venue is by making it free,and that is the only way of maintaining a club, why not?.obviously this is not in my interest as a professional folk singer,but I am trying to look at this objectively ,rather than subjectively.http://www.dickmiles.com


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: GUEST,SussexCarole
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 03:05 PM

Come and visit us at the Halfpenny Folk Club on Sundays at The Greyhound - on Gower (near Swansea). Singers nights are free of charge although there's a charge on guest nights (usually one per month).


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Diva
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 04:13 PM

I think it is a sad reflection of oor times. When I was "up and coming* it was the done thing to let singers and musicians in for free but sadly times have changed. But it is nice to hear that are a few places left


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 04:30 PM

Yes, not sure why singers should get in completely free, especially if it's a singaround which is likely to be all performing singers. Some places charge a lower door fee to performers, which I think works well, and can be structured to cover costs.


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 05:46 PM

I like the idea of singers getting in free to folk clubs,most singers buy raffle tickets, and beer/soft drinks,so as well as contributing musically,they are contributing financially.
of course it is not a right,
but the organiser needs to make it clear what the policy of the club is, either on the website or in the local folk magazine .
the argument is singers get in free,[to guest booking clubs]because they are making a musical contribution,with a singaround club the situation is slightly different .
we appear to have a three tier system of clubs.
concerts[sometimes called folk clubs]with guest and support act or residents.
folk clubs with guests and a proportion of singers nights.
and singaround clubs.
I think the most important thing is clarity, on the website ,or in the local folk mag,everything is then up front,and nobody drives 30 miles or whatever ,with a mistaken idea, to be told on their arrival its 5 pounds/whatever for floor singers.


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 06:30 PM

Breezy's not quite right about Herga.   I learnt a lot of songs when I was in my teens because floorsingers got free entry when John Heydon was running the club, and we had guests every fortnight.

IIRC it was MCP who pointed out in the 90s that charging floorsingers would bring in more money than putting up annual subscriptions, because so many of the club members wanted to sing, and it's the singers' nights that pay for the now monthly guests.

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 07:37 PM

"If you do not attend real folkclubs with "name" guests you are not truly supportive..."

Touch yer forelock Breezy, if you're into believing what folk's organizing cliques, record companies and festival promoters' opinion is "good".

You won't like the top quality traditional folk performers who come to our local Singaround Clubs because, presumably, none of them (to my knowledge) have made commercial CD albums. I guess you won't like the suberb folk style songwriters we have around here for the same reason.

However I have to assume you would be enamoured by a mediochre guest your local Punterclub might put on because their name is in print as a guest at a so called 'Real' Folk Club".

I really don't see why I have to part with money for a so called 'professional' guest to support Folk. I view these pros as PART of the folk scene - no more than that.

I prefer to support another part of the folk scene, equally if not more valid than the guest/commercial part of the folk scene. My preferred part of folk is that bit which enables anyone to participate and develop their love for folk and abilities to contribute.

And has it occurred to organisers that charge singers that they've simply set up a talent contest with an entry fee (Folk X Factor Club?). Singers who won't take part in their silly contest are then lost to that folk audience because of the entry fee.

If this thread provides a network for sensible singers to reach audiuences who are sick of the old folk scene hacks and their pecking orders then it's doing a brilliant service for a healthy folk future. If today's singer charging clubs fade as a result of demanding floor singers pay and grovel to the Big Cheeses of the folk stage before they are considered as part of the folk world - then fine!

What will replace these Punterclubs will then be something true to the folk tradition and ethos, not a commercialised perversion of it.


Ian Fyvie


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Girl Friday
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 07:43 PM

It hasn't bean feasible in the past to let singers in for free to Orpington Friday Folk, as sometimes, it's only the singers who come along, though that's getting rarer. Our Singarounds are completely free. There is no obligation to contribute to the collection should you wish not to.
The Fox and Hounds Folk Club is different in that there is no seperate room, therefore, entrance must be free for all, both singers and guest nights. We make a collection and have a raffle on guest nights, but endeavour to give all comers a floor spot. Again there is no obligation to contribute, but it helps out the pub, as they pay for the guests. You can't get much for free these days .


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 08:03 PM

No-one should ever have to pay to play a floor spot, but I'm very much in favour of some degree of quality control. Decent floor singers/players are the backbone of the (UK) folk-scene and their contribution is (at least partly) an act of charity which should not be under-valued.


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Dame Pattie Smith EPNS
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 08:23 PM

When I started going to folk clubs back in 1970 (Bridgend and Porthcawl) floor artists got in free. This was the norm in Wales at the time as there didn't seem to be that many of them. However when we started Llantrisant Folk Club 28 years ago we had to charge everyone because it seemed everyone was a floor artist and the club would not make any money otherwise to pay for any guests. To this day we have only 1 or 2 people who do not perform on a singers' night. It is so nice to have an audience believe me and please keep em coming! We have a great club.


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Suzi Z
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 03:07 AM

On an singers night at The Anchor folk club in Byfleet, all floor singers get in free...with a 'pass the jugs at half time' when voluntary contributions are made...which has included buttons, old francs, washers etc ( I think they were meant to be a joke )
On a guest night floor singers would be expected to pay ..and rightly so in my opinion,why should we get in free to hear an act we have chosen to go and see .
The singers nights and guest nights are equally well supported ...respect for the organiser Mike Peach who runs one of the best folk/acoustic clubs in the south of England ...come along on a Thursday night ..to see for yourself
Anchor Folk Club
With my floorsinger hat on this time
xx Suzi


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Banjiman
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 04:05 AM

Surely this is down to the ethos of different clubs?

There seems to be some stirring here and an attempt to set up more false divisions (we've done trad v contemporary to death, how else can I wind people up?)

We have 2 very different clubs locally (5 miles a part): Burneston Folk Club is strictly singaround and nobody pays..... except for beer, and everyone gets to sing/ play. It's a great, friendly club run by Glyn Cavell and Len Roland Jones. Any kind of acoustic music goes but most punters sing trad folk or self penned folky songs. Runs weekly and we all have a great time.

Kirkby Fleetham Folk Club is a monthly performance club, eveyone pays to get in and the main guest gets a fee and the support artist get expenses if they are travelling. We don't have floor singers (you can do that any Wednesday night at Burneston), we do have a singaround AFTER the main acts have finished..... and those who want to just see and hear quality music might have gone home.

There is quite an overlap in terms of organisation and membership (Glyn Cavell is the main M.C. at KFFC as well as organising Burneston) but the those of the Ian Fyvie persuausion don't generally attend KFFC (unless offered a support slot.... interesting that!). We get quite a few "normal" i.e non- folkies at KFFC, who wouldn't dream of going to a singaround.

These clubs generally work hand in hand without any rivalry or falling out..... they serve differing but complimentary aims.... and neither are in the pockets of the "big boys" of folk.

I love 'em both!


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Jim McLean
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 05:03 AM

I let Bob Dylan in for nothing when he first arrived at the King and Queen, in 1962. He was virtually unknown (to me and most of the audience) but he had a guitar with him. Should I have charged him? He did sing though.


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: evansakes
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 05:07 AM

"I really don't see why I have to part with money for a so called 'professional' guest to support Folk"

By all means keep your money in your pocket, Ian but when you've finished counting your pennies perhaps stop to think for a minute. Ask not what your folk club can do for you...ask what you can do for your folk club. In the end we all get the folk scene we deserve.

There will always be chancers, free-loaders and time-wasters in any walk of life but sad to say rarely are they given as much slack as on the British folk scene. Where else would amateur performers of ANY standard consider their contribution to be a right rather than a privilege?


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 06:27 AM

I prefer a system where members get in cheaper,plus a reduction for students and pensioners,and floor singers get in free,I agree its not always practical[Dame Patti Smith ,gave a good example ],but I think whenever possible,it is a good idea.
Where else would amateur performers of ANY standard consider their contribution to be a right rather than a privilege?
[quote]but some of them are not amateur ,some of them are professional or semi professional.when I ran a club,I had floor singers turn up such as Steve Turner ,Dave Walters,etc


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 07:17 AM

One of the gentlemen named by the Captain was present at our club last night along with another four (out of the seventeen floor singers called upon)who frequently enjoy guest status around the clubs and festivals. Everyone paid on the door, some who had travelled well in excess of thirty miles to be there, without a murmur of dissent as they had come to visit the club and enjoy our guests. Had we let all the residents and those capable of performing from the floor in free last night we would have taken approx £100 less on the door which would have ammounted to a considerable proportion of the guests fee.
As far as I am aware it is the norm throughout the East Midlands that everyone attending a folk club pays on the door whether a floor singer, listener, helper whatever and I am unaware of any whingeing from either organisers or attendees.
If anyone would like to see our forthcoming guest list go to www.tigerfolk.com and I don't think that you'll find many there who would expect any fawning.


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: TheSnail
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 07:45 AM

One thing I have learnt from these various threads is just how enormously varied folk clubs are and how equally varied are people in what they want from a folk club. Excellent. Run your club the way you want to and go to the clubs that offer what you want.

The Lewes Saturday Folk Club is what seems to be now called a Guest Club. We usually have a guest performer (solo or group) who does two 45 minute sets and the rest of the time is taken up by floorspots and residents. We have two main operating principles - to give the guest the best deal we can (we want them to come back) and to give everyone who wants one a floorspot if we can fit them in. Since this can be a significant proportion of the audience, letting floorsingers in free, or even cheap, would nake a significant dent in our first principle. At our club, everybody, including the residents/organisers, pays the same. I'm not saying this is the "right" way to do it; there isn't a "right" way. It's just the way we do it and it works for us.


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: breezy
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 01:15 PM

Hello itsme agian

Dear Ian if I knew where 'around here was' I would drop in.

Dear Kitty, thank you, where were you last week?

I will be welcoming of any floor singer who wants a spot at the Portland arms this coming Sunday , in St Albans, but be warned you have to fight to get the audience's attention.

this is not a folk club but a pub gig.

My next club gig will be on Fri 13th march at the Pumphouse watford and I would like a lot of admission paying attendees to come because I want it to be a financial success for the club and me the guest.

I shall be performing Trad songs along with contemporary songs of quality but I am not a singer/songwriter

and who knows what else might happen!!!


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Dave Earl
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 02:07 PM

"Dear Ian if I knew where 'around here was' I would drop in."

Ian is in the same City as me - Brighton.

Dave


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 06:07 PM

HK: I remember a certain lady from Herga being very vocal about singers paying at Watford. Her argument was that all floor singers were prima donnas and should pay to strutt their stuff. She said that SHE wasn't a prima donna of course! lol

Rhiannon


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 12:39 PM

Breezy, the gay lights of Brighton are beckoning.
is Blowing in the Wind,in your repertoire .


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: breezy
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 01:45 PM

Whats the cathedral in Brighton called !? I cant remember.

Herga Kitty is a fantastic singer, I managed to book her with Les Sullivan, she has even been one of my backing vocalists.She possesses a vast repertoire and is higely under-rated, well worth paying to hear.

Brighton is a hot bed of lefties, no wonder their trouble. I blame Robb Johnson.

if those lights are beckoning then they'll have to come to me

yes capn , and I do it rather well too, and am proud of the fact though only on rare occasions ,as for the song I usually do it when requested by a younger late teen aged officianado. I do that rather well too.

Ask me another


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: TheSnail
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 01:54 PM

Robb Johnson lives in Hove (actually).
































...and there isn't a cathedral in Brighton.


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: breezy
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 01:54 PM

Sorry Rhiannon how are you in Rhodesia ?

I must say that our Windward Folk and Spolight clubs in St Albans would not have been possible without the likes of you and Mick who attended all those pre club singarounds in Redbourn, along with guru, silverfish and others where we all coughed up a quid a week for a year before the folk club started up and then performed as guests for what were very modest fees.

Thank you it was a great venture and project.

Shame about the beer at the Comfort and the legion wanting the room for the committee's use only !


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Leadfingers
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 02:56 PM

To paraphrase 'Different Strokes for Different Folks' , it depends on the Attendees as to how a club (or session) functions ! Uxbridge USED to have a 'Singers get in free' policy , until it was two thirds of the attendees were wanting to sing !
The same goes for Maidenhead - On Singers and Musicians nights we regularly applaud the Audince ( BOTH of Them ) . If we performers got in free , the club would have closed YEARS ago .
I work fairly regularly for fairly serious money , doing stuff that I MOSTLY learned in Folk clubs , so all I am doing when I 'Pay to Sing' at a local club is RE paying what Folk has given me .
To any one who is fortunate enough to get enough audience to be able to book the occasional guest , and NOT charge Floor singers , I say "Good For You!" but there is NO point in having a slanging match because someone else runs a club in a different fashion !


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 03:36 PM

LF: I love the attitude of REPAYING! Good for you.

Breezy: Life here in Rhodesia is great, although I'm moving to rainier climes in the summer.

Blessings
Rhiannon


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Subject: RE: Singers - still get in free - 2009
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 07:24 PM

Best system that I came across was the old Chelmsford Folk Club. Everybody paid on their first visit, if you did a floor spot you were given a voucher for free entry valid for one month. That of course was in the days when a folk club would fill a decent sized hall (and I mean FILL in Chelmsford's glory days).


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