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Paying artists percentages

GUEST,Armanaya 01 Mar 09 - 05:35 PM
Leadfingers 01 Mar 09 - 06:09 PM
greg stephens 01 Mar 09 - 06:11 PM
Girl Friday 01 Mar 09 - 07:52 PM
Barry Finn 01 Mar 09 - 07:54 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 01 Mar 09 - 11:02 PM
Rabbi-Sol 01 Mar 09 - 11:14 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 01 Mar 09 - 11:55 PM
Peace 02 Mar 09 - 12:25 AM
JedMarum 02 Mar 09 - 12:34 AM
Howard Jones 02 Mar 09 - 07:04 PM
Richard Bridge 02 Mar 09 - 07:07 PM
Leadfingers 02 Mar 09 - 07:31 PM
Peace 02 Mar 09 - 07:50 PM
michaelr 02 Mar 09 - 10:24 PM
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Subject: Paying artists percentages
From: GUEST,Armanaya
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 05:35 PM

Having run concerts for 12 months we have come to the conclusion that the best way forward is to pay artists a percentage of the door with a low minimum - what do artists and other organisers think?


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Subject: RE: Paying artists percentages
From: Leadfingers
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 06:09 PM

Define 'Low Minimum' for a start ! And where are you ? USA or UK ??


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Subject: RE: Paying artists percentages
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 06:11 PM

I play with the Boat Band, and we play a lot of gigs for a percentage deal. Naturally, we try to establish that the promoters we are working for have a track record of organising gigs, getting advertising done and so on. In which case, it generally works out fine.


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Subject: RE: Paying artists percentages
From: Girl Friday
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 07:52 PM

Occasionally potential guests at my club suggest a percentage of the door against a fee set by them. I don't want the hassle of working out maths on a Friday night, so this idea is immediately rejected. I do work from a low base, as it is a very small club. This low fee is always against 100% of the door. This can often pay dividends to an act that can attract a lot of people, rather than a fixed higher fee, and generally, our guests are pleasantly surprised to get an extra few squid.


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Subject: RE: Paying artists percentages
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 07:54 PM

I love squid but I don't think I'd want to get paid in it

Barry


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Subject: RE: Paying artists percentages
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 11:02 PM

I'm guessing that Armanaya is from the U.K. based on the way the statement was made.

It is common practice here in the U.S. to offer a guarantee versus a percentage after expenses - whichever is higher. "Low" is an odd word to use as the guarantee is meant to cover artist expenses and value. Everyone takes some risk, but you cannot expect the artist to take the bulk of it. Usually the lower the guarantee the higher the percentage.

Speaking from my own experience, it is not an easy decision to make. If you cannot afford the guarantee, or if you do not think you can sell enough tickets to cover - you do not book the artist at that rate. If the artist or their agent cannot negotiate, you walk away - no harm, no foul.   Basic math.


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Subject: RE: Paying artists percentages
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 11:14 PM

At The Borderline Folk Music Club in Rockland County, NY we pay a guarantee of $300 for a single performer or up to $600 for a group vs. 60% of the gate.

The only time we have exceeded that amount was for a very prominent superstar, Christine Lavin.

We expect to do so again in May when we host the world famous Bluegrass band, Danny Paisley & The Southern Grass. This will be the first time ever that they will be playing a house concert without sound.


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Subject: RE: Paying artists percentages
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 11:55 PM

ANY 14 y.o. debater (or USA ...lawyer...but never a UK solicitor) will right from the start - (as reflected by the current responces) request a: "Defintion of Terms."

Look first to the nouns in your postings (those are the person, place or thingys) Look next to your verbs (USA President Bill Clinton demonstrated this with IS

Are you grubbing and then grabbing contracts off the internet? (Not a good idea - you get what you PAY for)

A good coalition of musicians could be well positioned to take your profits, your home and your first born.

If it is "friends an family" it is one thing - if even one musician is "represented by a union" - duck and cover.

WE - Who is "WE"?

run concerts run them down the drain...run them until are exhasuted ...run them until they have the runs....run them until they run away screaming?

concerts full orchestra (100 instruments string+brass+percussion) (half orchestra 50+1 of the afore mentioned) (modern electrical "lite orchestra" 13+1 with three insturments each and "augmented sound?">

12 months Is it really an exagerated 8.5 of a year....or a compressed 14 months? (If you lose in the court-room the difference is costly)

artists a broad term that could include posters and lighting and cullinary arts.

pay payment in kind? cash on the barrel-head? receipts payable in the future?

percentage of the door who is counting and who is watching who is counting?

percentage of the door presale tickets are excluded? comps come out of whose pocket?

low minimum a cigar and handshake? what if you miss minimum?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

I cannot beleive you are real-live promoter or producer much less "club owner."

In the US a flat fee guarantee is required up front...and if you have the pull, in a small establishment ... you want a percent of the bar rather than the door....the hand clicky counters are dandy for disputes and it pays to have three near that are sober. Technology give you the leverage even if alcohol receipts do not.


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Subject: RE: Paying artists percentages
From: Peace
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 12:25 AM

Used to be a guaranteed amount or 50% of the gate, which ever was more. Times have changed it seems.


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Subject: RE: Paying artists percentages
From: JedMarum
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 12:34 AM

It is common for concert venues in the US to pay a percentage with a minimum guaranteed. When I make a buck or two more then minimum then I feel that I've at least earned my keep. The minimum is typically set by the venue (and I have been told by several) to be their costs paid and my minimum paid. So the night is in the black. I always sell CDs on top of that.

I also always have in mind that my goal is draw enough to go way beyond the minimum, in which case I have the chance of doing very well - because CD sale will also certainly be greater too, with a bigger house.

I do believe it is my responsibility to do everything I can to help fill the room. I only have so much I can do, of course - but I can help get the word out about the shows and I can help draw. The minimum says to me that the venue is willing and ABLE to do their best to fill the place too.

The percentage deal is typically a good one for venue and performer.


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Subject: RE: Paying artists percentages
From: Howard Jones
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 07:04 PM

The difficulty is setting the minimum charge at the right level - if things go badly then that's got to be high enough to be acceptable to the musicians, because that's all they're going to get. You also have to be very clear what expenses can be deducted before calculating the final percentage.

In most cases, whether or not the event is successful is largely down to how well the organiser promotes it, rather than anything the musicians can do, so there needs to be some trust involved. However, speaking from both sides of the fence, if it's run properly then it works well. Like Jed says, if its set up right then both the organiser and performer will benefit.

Gargoyle, in the UK most folk music concerts (apart from those in arts centres and larger venues) aren't run by "promoters" or "club owners" in the sense I think you mean, but by enthusiastic amateurs (in the proper meaning of the word). Usually they are not aiming to make a profit, and any surpluses they make will be ploughed back in to cover less successful events, or to subsidise a special performance. They usually have no control of the bar so offering a percentage of bar takings isn't an option.


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Subject: RE: Paying artists percentages
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 07:07 PM

Take no notice of Garg - his purpose is to offend, not illuminate.

Signed - a solicitor.


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Subject: RE: Paying artists percentages
From: Leadfingers
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 07:31 PM

I am not sure what the percentage increase would be to day , but twenty years ago I was booking a small UK Folk Club in the back room of a pub , and offering a GUARANTEED £40 against 80% of door , and usually managing to pay more than the Guest expected . AND getting some pretty good guests in as well !


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Subject: RE: Paying artists percentages
From: Peace
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 07:50 PM

I'm going back to the '60s and '70s with that, btw.


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Subject: RE: Paying artists percentages
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 10:24 PM

Richard Bridge, I thing your comment does Gargoyle an injustice. While I'm not sure I understand all of his points, the following are quite valid:

>>percentage of the door - who is counting and who is watching who is counting?


>>percentage of the door - presale tickets are excluded? comps come out of whose pocket?


>>low minimum - a cigar and handshake? what if you miss minimum?


>>you want a percent of the bar rather than the door.

>>the hand clicky counters are dandy for disputes and it pays to have three near that are sober.


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