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Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)

GUEST,leeneia 07 Jan 06 - 10:08 PM
Peace 07 Jan 06 - 10:10 PM
Charley Noble 07 Jan 06 - 10:13 PM
open mike 08 Jan 06 - 01:22 AM
chico 08 Jan 06 - 01:59 AM
GUEST,leeneia 08 Jan 06 - 09:41 AM
Charley Noble 08 Jan 06 - 11:49 AM
Joybell 08 Jan 06 - 02:54 PM
Joe Offer 02 Mar 09 - 05:47 AM
Will Fly 02 Mar 09 - 07:01 AM
Leadfingers 02 Mar 09 - 07:08 AM
The Borchester Echo 02 Mar 09 - 07:31 AM
GUEST,leeneia 02 Mar 09 - 10:07 AM
Monique 02 Mar 09 - 10:19 AM
MartinRyan 02 Mar 09 - 10:29 AM
John on the Sunset Coast 02 Mar 09 - 10:32 AM
clueless don 02 Mar 09 - 10:32 AM
Joe Offer 02 Mar 09 - 04:51 PM
Peace 02 Mar 09 - 04:56 PM
Haruo 02 Mar 09 - 05:02 PM
Peter T. 02 Mar 09 - 05:08 PM
GUEST,leeneia 02 Mar 09 - 05:09 PM
Monique 02 Mar 09 - 06:57 PM
Jeri 02 Mar 09 - 07:22 PM
clueless don 03 Mar 09 - 09:19 AM
Jeri 03 Mar 09 - 11:52 AM
open mike 03 Mar 09 - 12:34 PM
clueless don 03 Mar 09 - 04:28 PM
Jeri 03 Mar 09 - 05:01 PM
Rabbi-Sol 03 Mar 09 - 08:13 PM
john f weldon 03 Mar 09 - 11:28 PM
robomatic 04 Mar 09 - 10:58 PM
Monique 05 Mar 09 - 01:53 PM
robomatic 05 Mar 09 - 05:02 PM
Monique 05 Mar 09 - 05:08 PM
Jeri 05 Mar 09 - 05:16 PM
Monique 05 Mar 09 - 05:41 PM
GUEST,leeneia 05 Mar 09 - 10:12 PM
Monique 06 Mar 09 - 04:38 AM
GUEST,leeneia 06 Mar 09 - 09:24 AM
John on the Sunset Coast 29 Mar 09 - 03:46 PM
MorwenEdhelwen1 25 Jul 12 - 04:56 AM
GUEST,leeneia 25 Jul 12 - 10:04 AM
GUEST,gordofredus 13 Sep 18 - 04:51 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 13 Sep 18 - 07:20 AM
leeneia 13 Sep 18 - 02:29 PM
Joe Offer 13 Sep 18 - 04:22 PM
Gordon Jackson 13 Sep 18 - 07:02 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Sep 18 - 08:11 PM
Gordon Jackson 14 Sep 18 - 03:19 AM
GUEST,Mark Bluemel 14 Sep 18 - 04:05 AM
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Subject: Origins: You can't go back to Constantinople
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 10:08 PM

I tried some searching, didn't find anything.

Does anybody know the origin of this song?


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Subject: Lyr Add: ISTANBUL (NOT CONSTANTINOPLE) (Four Lads)
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 10:10 PM

Istanbul (Not Constantinople)

-Artists: The Four Lads
-peak Billboard position # 10 in 1953
-Words by Jimmy Kennedy and Music by Nat Simon

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul not Constantinople
Been a long time gone
Old Constantinople's still has Turkish delight
On a moonlight night

Evr'y gal in Constantinople
Is a Miss-stanbul, not Constantinople
So if you've date in Constantinople
She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it, I can't say

(People just liked it better that way)

Take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks'

Istanbul!!

Istanbul!!

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it, I can't say
(People just liked it better that way)

Take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks'

'stanbul!!


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Subject: RE: Origins: You can't go back to Constantinople
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 10:13 PM

LOL

Where was I in 1953?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Origins: You can't go back to Constantinople
From: open mike
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 01:22 AM

this was also done more recently by trout fishing in america
see here: http://www.troutmusic.com/bio.htm
although when i looked thru their albums i could only find these songs ..with geographical reference to plasces in the middle or far east
Dead Egyptian Blues
Last days of Pompeii


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Subject: Chords Add: ISTANBUL (NOT CONSTANTINOPLE) (4 Lads)
From: chico
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 01:59 AM


Am                   (E7)
Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
       E7
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
          Am                   E7
Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

Every gal in Constantinople
Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
So if you've a date in Constantinople
She'll be waiting in Istanbul

    Am E7   Am
Even old New York
Was once New Amsterdam

Why they changed it I can't say
E7
People just liked it better that way

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works
That's nobody's business but the Turks'

Do do do, do-do-do dododododo
   Oh, oh-oh-oh...
Do do do, do-do-do dododododo
Do do do, do-do-do dododododo
Do - Istanbul

Em/maj7
Itstanbul!


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Subject: RE: Origins: You can't go back to Constantinople
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 09:41 AM

Thanks, everybody. There are a lot more words to this song than I thought.

Thanks, also, for the 1953 date. I THOUGHT I remembered it from early TV, but people where telling me it was a 1960's song. Ha!


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Subject: RE: Origins: You can't go back to Constantinople
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 11:49 AM

It's all coming back to me now! The back up files finally kicked in.

It was a real brain worm!

Thanks for refreshing this one.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Origins: You can't go back to Constantinople
From: Joybell
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 02:54 PM

Always loved this song. I like the logic of it. True-Love has been singing it since the 1950s. It fits well with the - "They wear no pants in the hoochie coochie dance" song. Our Cockatoo just falls about when he hears that one. Sings along and all. Cheers, Joy


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Subject: Origins: Istanbul
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 05:47 AM

This is a song that has always intrigued me, and I have never taken the time to dig into it. Peace sent me this (and I verified the lyrics from the recording):

    Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
    "Istanbul" 1953
    Words by Jimmy Kennedy
    Music by Nat Simon


    "It's Istanbul, not Constantinople now ...." Leave it to Tin Pan Alley to turn centuries of ethnic and religious struggles into a catchy ditty. This song, although copyrighted by Kennedy and Simon, is a direct descendant of the humourous piece, "Al-Bar the Bubul Emir" that could be found in the pages of "Captain Billy's Whizbang," an early 20th century precursor to "Mad Magazine."


    ISTANBUL (NOT CONSTANTINOPLE)
    (Words by Jimmy Kennedy, Music by Nat Simon)

    Istanbul was Constantinople,
    Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople;
    Been a long time gone, old Constantinople,
    Still it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night.

    Every gal in Constantinople
    Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople;
    So if you've a date in Constantinople,
    She'll be waiting in Istanbul.

    [bridge]
    Even old New York was once New Amsterdam;
    Why they changed it, I can't say,
    People just like it better that way.

    Take me back to Constantinople;
    No, you can't go back to Constantinople.
    Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople;
    Why did Constantinople get the works?
    That's nobody's business but the Turks.


    [Instrumental break]
    Doo, doo, doo...
    Istanbul (Istanbul)
    Istanbul (Istanbul)

    [bridge]
    Even old New York was once New Amsterdam;
    Why they changed it, I can't say,
    People just like it better that way.

    Take me back to Constantinople;
    No, you can't go back to Constantinople.
    Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople;
    Why did Constantinople get the works?
    That's nobody's business but the Turks.


    Istanbul

    Transcribed by ear from the Trevor Horn Orchestra recording on the Mona Lisa Smile movie soundtrack.



Istanbul (Not Constantinople) is the fourth (4th) song on the Flood album and is the eighth (8th) song, in live format, on the Severe Tire Damage album.


from

Istanbul (Not Constantinople)A friend of my brother taught me the song "Charlottetown is burning down, good bye, goodbye...Charlottetown Town is burning down, good bye Liza Jane. ...
ruk.ca/article/756 - 21k - Cached - Similar pages
Anyhow, I think we need to research this and get good lyrics and background information. I sure don't see the connection to "Abdul..."

Thanks, Peace.

-Joe-

Click on the Trevor Horn Orchestra link - I think you'll like the recording.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 07:01 AM

I remember this on the radio in the '50s. The tune always reminded me of "Putting On The Ritz" - which was surely much earlier. The version I recall in the UK was by the bandleader Edmundo Ros. I can't see any connection to "Abdul A Bulbul Emir" - which was made famous in the '20s by Frank Crumit.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 07:08 AM

Seems to have been published in 1953 -- Kennedy and Simon the writers .


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 07:31 AM

Roger Tallroth (of Väsen) has written a fantastic tune called Istanbul about a journey to (or from). Can't remember which.
This doesn't, of course, have anything to do with the current topic but it's well worth listening to.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 10:07 AM

Tin Pan Alley was about 50 years in the past when this song was written. (1953)

I have a MIDI of this song which I downloaded from somewhere. I disliked the fake fiddle which has the lead, so I changed it to a clarinet sound. On days when I want something to cheer me up, I play it.

Joe, shall I send the file to you for posting? The song is copyrighted material, but apparently nobody seems to mind.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Monique
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 10:19 AM

This is part of what Wiki says about it:
"Istanbul (Not Constantinople)" is a swing-style song, with lyrics by Jimmy Arnold and music by Nat Simon. The tune is similar to and possibly based on the music for "Puttin' on the Ritz", written by Irving Berlin in 1929.
The lyrics remind the listener of the change of the name of the city Constantinople to the Turkish name Istanbul, also mentioning the fact that New York City was originally named New Amsterdam.

"Istanbul (Not Constantinople)" was originally recorded by a Canadian group called The Four Lads on August 12, 1953. This recording was released by Columbia Records as catalog number 40082. It first reached the Billboard magazine charts on October 24, 1953, and it peaked at #10. It was the group's first gold record."

I remember hearing it in French when I was a child (in the late 50's), the French title being "Istanbul, c'est Constantinople"


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 10:29 AM

I was about to suggest that the only thing it had in common with "Abdul.." was an Irish author - but that seems to have been a false alarm.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 10:32 AM

The 4 Lads had another 'near eastern' recording, "Cleo and Me-O"
As I recall the chorus:

There's Cleo and Me-O
And a baby crocodile.
We live on the Allegheny River,
Pittsburgh's 'bout a mile.
When Cleo feels free-o
The dancing gets so wild;
You'd swear that the Allegheny River
Was the river Nile.

When Mitch Miller had a good idea he drove it into the ground.
The same Mitch Miller who wanted a Jazz singer to become Frank Sinatra, and another to sing in faux Italian accent. But Tony Bennett and Rosemary Clooney succeeded anyway.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: clueless don
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 10:32 AM

Like many others, I was introduced to this song through the recording by the group "They Might Be Giants".

Don


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 04:51 PM

I posted uncorrected lyrics in the wee hours of the morning in the first post of this thread. I've now made a corrections, after listening to a recording. The lyrics should be a fairly reliable transcription, since the recording was very clear. I've always wondered, though, why Byzantium wasn't included in the song....

I notice that the first line of the bridge (Even old New York was once New Amsterdam) has a familiar tune. As kids, we used to sing "Oh the girls in France have tissue-paper pants" to this tune - anybody know the actual name of the tune?

Be sure to look at the YouTube Recording that Don linked to.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Peace
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 04:56 PM

Joe, please see the thread started by Azizi a while back entitled "Children's Street Song". It comes up there. Sorry I'm rushed at present. I'll try to get to some 'research' within a few days.

Bruce
    I found a "Children's Street Songs" thread, but not from Azizi and not including "Istanbul."
    -joe-


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Haruo
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 05:02 PM

The notes don't say there's any connection between "Istanbul (Not Constantinople)" and "Abdul A Bulbul Emir", but to "Al-Bar the Bubul Emir" (which I've never heard of). Did you maybe overlook that note while cleaning up the lyrics, Joe?

And Monique, how does it happen that the French version seems to mean the opposite of the English: "Istanbul, c'est Constantinople" vs. "Istanbul (Not Constantinople)". Would "Istanbul, pas Constantinople" work (my French is minimal).

Yes, leeneia, please send Joe or me or somebody the midi.

Haruo


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Peter T.
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 05:08 PM

Now we need a St. Petersburg song.

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 05:09 PM

It's a good thing the song didn't mention Byzantium, or somebody would be saying it was derived from the poetry of William Butler Yeats.

I'll go see about that MIDI.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Monique
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 06:57 PM

Haruo, I suppose that it's because when they wrote the French lyrics, they just kept "Istanbul" and "Constantinople" and wrote quite different lyrics. Here they are, I found them on lyricsmania

Istanbul, Istanbul !

Istanbul c'est Constantinople
C'est à Istanbul ou Constantinople
Que je suis allé un jour pour y découvrir le grand amour
Que l'on attend toujours

Istanbul ça n'est plus l'Europe
C'est à Istanbul ou Constantinople
Que je l'ai trouvée un soir qui flânait
Au milieu de la foule d'Istanbul

Le muezzin chantait en haut d'un minaret
Et tout le long du Bosphore
Je faisais déjà des rêves d'or
A Istanbul la vie était belle
C'est à Istanbul, je me le rappelle
Que mon coeur fut pris
Par les sortilèges de l'Asie
Je l'ai suivie dans la foule
Un soir sous le beau ciel d'Istanbul
Istanbul Istanbul Istanbul Istanbul

Istanbul c'est Constantinople
C'est à Istanbul ou Constantinople
Que je me voyais déjà arrivé au paradis d'Allah
Qui vous attend là-bas

Oh Istanbul ça n'est plus l'Europe
C'est à Istanbul ou Constantinople
Que je m'approchais en me faufilant
Au milieu de la foule d'Istanbul

Je n'savais comment traduire mes sentiments
Mais en riant elle me dit :
"Comme vous, j'arrive droit de Paris !"

Oh Istanbul c'est Constantinople
C'est à Istanbul ou Constantinople
Que nous avons pris le train qui nous ramène à Paris
Loin du bruit et de la foule, c'est bon de rêver à Istanbul !

Istanbul ou Constantinople
Le bonheur est là, si bon, à sa porte,
C'est bien inutile d'aller le chercher
Je ne sais où Istanbul ou Tombouctou
L'amour il est là tout près de vous

Istanbul, Istanbul !

literal translation (I already said in other threads that I never was a poet nor was I a native English speaker)

Istanbul, Istanbul !

Istanbul is Constantinople,
It's in Istanbul or Constantinople
That I went to discover the love of my life*
The one we're always waiting for.

Istanbul is no more Europe
It's in Istanbul or Constantinople
That I found her strolling
In the middle of Istanbul crowd

The muezzin was singing from the top of a minaret
And along the Bosphorus
I was already having golden dreams.
In Istanbul, life was beautiful.
It's in Istanbul, I remember it,
That my heart was taken
By Asia's spells.
I followed her in the crowd
One evening, under Istanbul's beautiful sky
Istanbul Istanbul Istanbul Istanbul

Istanbul is Constantinople,
It's in Istanbul or Constantinople
That I was already seeing myself in Allah's paradise
That's waiting for you there.

Istanbul is no more Europe
It's in Istanbul or Constantinople
That I came near worming my way
Among Istanbul's crowd.

I didn't know how to show my feelings
But she laughed while saying
"Like you, I've come straight from Paris!"

Oh Istanbul is Constantinople
It's in Istanbul or Constantinople
That we took the train taking us back to Paris.
Far from the noise and the crowd, it's good to dream of Istanbul !

Istanbul or Constantinople
Happiness is here, so good, at your door,
It's useless to go to fetch it
I don't know where, in Istanbul or Timbuktu
Love is here, near to you.

Istanbul, Istanbul !

*To mean "the love of one's life" we say "l'amour de sa vie", but also "le grand amour" (the great love) or "l'amour avec un grand A" (Love with a capital L)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 07:22 PM

Joe, the tune is part of 'Puttin' on the Ritz'.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: clueless don
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 09:19 AM

Jeri,

The tune of "Istanbul was Constantinople" is similar to, and may have been derived from, the tune of "Puttin' On the Ritz", but I think Joe was asking about the tune for "Oh, the girls in France ...".

Thanks for that Fred Astaire link by the way. Great stuff!

Don


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 11:52 AM

I love that video!
Yeah, I thought it might be the snake-charmer melody. I don't know where that comes from, but I think most kids (at least in the US) know it.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: open mike
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 12:34 PM

I first heard this song from the duo Trout Fishing in America
www.troutmusic.com.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: clueless don
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 04:28 PM

Regarding the tune to "Oh, the girls in France ..." (clueless don is my name, and thread creep is my game), I looked at the Children's Street Songs thread, and found mention of the song, but I found no tune information. The closest I have been able to come so far is in a thread titled "Tune Req: Need a song that matches the metre". There, Snuffy, on 21 Aug 01 - 08:59 PM, posted a fuller version of the tune in ABC notation, describing it as "... a really well-known tune that sounds sort of Turkish/Persian ...".

Here is his/her ABC, omitting the title he/she used (you can go to the thread for that):

X:1
T:?
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:Em
EF|
G2F2 E2EF|GBFG E2GA|BBBc BAFG|AAAB AGEF|
G2F2 E2EF|GBFG E2GA|BBBc BAGF|E2||

If you are not familiar with ABC, copy and paste this code (starting with the "X:1" line) into the entry window at Concertina.net, where you can get the dots and play a midi version.

Don


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 05:01 PM

Just did a search for snake charmer tune and got this page.
"The song was introduced to the collective consciousness of the American public over a century ago by Sol Bloom, a show business promoter who later became a U.S. Congressman. Bloom was the entertainment director of the Chicago World's Columbian Exposition of 1893, which was celebrating the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus' discovery of the New World. One of its attractions, called A Street In Cairo, included snake charmers, camel rides, the infamous dancers that later spawned the legend of Little Egypt, and other exciting things to entertain turn-of-the-century fair-goers. In his prestigious role, he made more money than the President of the United States – $1,000 a week.

In his autobiography, Bloom claimed that he improvised the melody on the piano at a press briefing in 1893 to introduce Little Egypt."
There's a lot more there, including the original lyrics to Streets of Cairo:

Streets Of Cairo or The Poor Little Country Maid (words by James Thornton)

Verse 1

I will sing you a song,
And it won't be very long,
'Bout a maiden sweet,
And she never would do wrong,
Ev'ryone said she was pretty,
She was not long in the city,
All alone, oh, what a pity,
Poor little maid.
Chorus

She never saw the streets of Cairo,
On the Midway she had never strayed,
She never saw the kutchy, kutchy,
Poor little country maid.
Verse 2

She went out one night,
Did this innocent divine,
With a nice young man,
Who invited her to dine,
Now he's sorry that he met her,
And he never will forget her,
In the future he'll know better,
Poor little maid.
Chorus

She never saw the streets of Cairo,
On the Midway she had never strayed,
She never saw the kutchy, kutchy,
Poor little country maid.
        Streets of Cairo Sheet Music Cover
Verse 3

She was engaged,
As a picture for to pose,
To appear each night,
In abbreviated clothes,
All the dudes were in a flurry,
For to catch her they did hurry,
One who caught her now is sorry,
Poor little maid.
Chorus

She was much fairer far than Trilby,
Lots of more men sorry will be,
If they don't try to keep way from this
Poor little country maid.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 08:13 PM

Hi Joe,
          This song was also recorded by The Four Lads.

I have the midi-karaoke file that was created by Tom Coughran of Vista, CA.

I will e-mail it to you if you so desire.

SOL


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: john f weldon
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 11:28 PM

I still have the Four Lads vinyl LP with this song.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Mar 09 - 10:58 PM

I love the simplicity of the English version, it is a winning funny song out of simple and repetitive lyrics, but it doesn't get old, at least for me.

I'm sure the French version goes down well, but it's an excellent comparison between Gallic wordiness and American brevity.

The most recent heavy play on this tune was by They Might Be Giants. There's a very cute version of: Tiny Toons - Istanbul (Not Constantinople)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Monique
Date: 05 Mar 09 - 01:53 PM

Here is a YouTube with the French version with pictures of Istanbul.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Mar 09 - 05:02 PM

Domo origato Monique
(Do Mo nique-nique-nique)!
La versionne francaise est tres jolie!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Monique
Date: 05 Mar 09 - 05:08 PM

Do you have an idea of what "nique, nique" means in modern French?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Mar 09 - 05:16 PM

You learn something every day! I just used Bable Fish to translate.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Monique
Date: 05 Mar 09 - 05:41 PM

I suppose Robomatic was refering to the song the Singing Nun (Sœur Sourire) would sing in the early 60's "Dominique" that went "Dominique-nique-nique... " and was refering to St Dominic.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 05 Mar 09 - 10:12 PM

If this song is as old as I've been told, then it is the earliest known appearance of 'There's a place in France..."

cute Jean Petite song

If the link doesn't work, search YouTube for 'Jean Petite qui danse.'

I learned this tune from a Spanish man at an early music workshop.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Monique
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 04:38 AM

Leeneia, the tune to "Jean Petit qui danse" goes back to the Middle Ages. There's an Occitan version to this song; here you'll find the lyrics, English translation, sheet music, midi, mp3... and the actual story the song originates in. The French and Occitan versions are sung to the same tune, the Spanish and Catalan versions are sung to a lightly different tune. All versions are used in a circle game taught to children at school for them to learn the parts of the body. For those who know French, Zictrad is a valuable site with lots of information about songs background.

@ Robomatic: The song "Dominique-nique-nique" back in the early 60's made some people sneer, it'd be unthinkable today. Back then, the verb was seldom used and known, now it's wide spread. It was integrated into French through the repatriated French from Algeria and Algerians in the early 60's. It comes from the Arabic "nik", itself coming from a shortened form of the French "forniquer", which meaning you can easily guess. End of French slang lesson :-)
Would you imagine an English speaking nun singing a similar song if "Corkscrews" ever existed as a first name?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 09:24 AM

Aha! Just as I thought! The first five notes of the 'snake-charmer song' go back to the Middle Ages.

Thanks, Monique.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 29 Mar 09 - 03:46 PM

As I was eating lunch today, I heard on a Live365 station, 'Istanbul' dueted by Bing and Ella, with the trumpet riff by Ziggy Elman. This version is apparently from a Crosby radio broadcast; I'm not sure if he/they recorded it for separate phono sales. The performance is available on some CD compilations of Bing's radio music. But, honestly, the Four Lads version is much better.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 25 Jul 12 - 04:56 AM

The snake-charmer song "Streets of Cairo" is said to be from an Algerian song called Kradoutja, which appeared in France in the 17th century. It might be earleir, though from what Monique said. The first five notes popped up in an 18th century French song.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 25 Jul 12 - 10:04 AM

That MIDI I was promising at one time got lost. Sorry, I can't provide it any more.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: GUEST,gordofredus
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 04:51 AM

I don't understand any of this. My dad had a 1920's version - probably the Paul Whitman version - called Constaninople c-o-n-s-t-i-n-o-p-l-e,
I wonder how the 1953 version got in here?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 07:20 AM

Of course, the correct title of the song, in question, should have been "Istanbul( not Constantinople OR Byzantium )"


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: leeneia
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 02:29 PM

I just listened to "Istanbul" and "Puttin on the Ritz." The first four measures are similar, then they diverge. Since the first four actually consist of the first two, repeated, the similarity doesn't last long.

They sound alike because they are both in the belly-dance minor - start on the sixth note of the major scale and then sharp the 7th note.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 04:22 PM

Hi, Gordofredus - the 1928 Paul Whiteman song is completely different, based on spelling it out C-o-n-s-t-a-n-t-i-n-o-p-l-e (gee, it's tedious to type it out like that).

Here's a recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8DzEoYIYb0


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Gordon Jackson
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 07:02 PM

Frankie got to number 11 in the UK with this in 1954.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 08:11 PM

When I was about eight years old, our class teacher wrote the word CONSTANTINOPLE on tbe blackboard and got us to use the letters in the word to make up as many new words of three letters or more we could think of. No plurals ending in s allowed. I couldn't believe it when I discovered that I'd been the only one in the class to get "constant." Well we were only eight!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Gordon Jackson
Date: 14 Sep 18 - 03:19 AM

I've just noticed I wrote that Frankie had a hit with it. I meant, of course, the late Frankie Vaughan. It's not like we were on first name terms or anything!

Steve, disappointed you didn't notice 'postcoital' as well!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel
Date: 14 Sep 18 - 04:05 AM

As it's not written by Paul McCartney, are we safe from complaints that it's not folk?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 18 - 07:14 AM

Who said I didn't, Gordon? ;-)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Gordon Jackson
Date: 14 Sep 18 - 09:44 AM

Fair play to you if you did, Steve.

These days they don't teech kids nuffing.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 18 - 09:49 AM

I think if I'd dug that word out, aged eight in the 1950s, Gordon, the headmaster would have had my parents in his office there and then! It was a good Catholic school too...


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Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Gordon Jackson
Date: 14 Sep 18 - 10:02 AM

Would he have known it, then?


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