Public Liability Insurance

Subject: RE: Public Liability Insurance
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 11:16 AM

To anyone who may offer an answer.
A guest performer is booked at what we would recognise as a folk club held in a room or the bar of a pub.
The guest has only a guitar in a case and an aluminium holder for his/her cd,s which are for sale.
During the course of the evening one of the audience trips base over apex on one of the cases that the guest has placed on the floor whilst performing. The trip results in personal injury and, say, damage to some furniture.
Where does the liability for recompense?

Subject: RE: Public Liability Insurance
From: Snuffy
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 10:31 AM

Individual EFDSS membership also includes the £5million PLI insurance. Look at the very bottom of this page on the EFDSS website Benefits of Joining EFDSS

Subject: RE: Public Liability Insurance
From: treewind
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 10:09 AM

Well, EFDSS affiliate membership for our band is £60 and gets £5million PLI for a year.

Les needn't worry about January 9th anway - we're both covered as MU members.
Even that's cheaper than £1350 - what sort of "designer" runs such risks?

Anahata

Subject: RE: Public Liability Insurance
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 03:01 AM

Don't know if it helps but my Public Indemnity insurance as a designer, with cover for £1million is around £1350 this year.

Al

Subject: RE: Public Liability Insurance
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 01:50 AM

"you can't haul three instrument cases into a motorway-services bog when you stop to take a leak!)."

Just had a thought - you could do that, but imagine if someone picks one up and buggers off with it. How embarrassing to have to give chase with one's Crown Jewels hanging out! LOL!

Subject: RE: Public Liability Insurance
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 03:46 PM

And as to the need for PLI, remember that, if you're sued, you don't have to lose, to lose! You may be found not liable, but loss of your time attending various meetings, hearing, etc. is irrevocable. And the cost of legal representation can't be thrown back on the (losing) suing party, except in VERY unusual circumstances.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Public Liability Insurance
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 02:17 PM

Thanks folks will pursue some of these ideas.

Subject: RE: Public Liability Insurance
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 12:59 PM

Good points by BWM

As I understand it at our village hall, we have PLI but from what I can gather, it doesn't cover the actions of the performers. So if a performer(s) injures somebody then as far as I know, the claim would be against the performer.

However the performer is covered by our PLI if they have an accident caused by our negligence.

Subject: RE: Public Liability Insurance
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 07:24 AM

Every time you perform in public you risk an 'incident' which might give rise to a Liability claim. Anyone who performs in public would be very wise to have PL cover. It's not a case of "I don't have equipment, therefore I'm not at risk" - it's a case of being covered against the unforeseen or even unforeseable.

And the comment above about instrument insurance is correct, that's why I have mine covered under a musician's policy (which includes leaving them in an unattended vehicle - you can't haul three instrument cases into a motorway-services bog when you stop to take a leak!).

Subject: RE: Public Liability Insurance
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 07:08 AM

EFDSS usually pass you on to their insurers which probably is the link above. There is a deal with the EFDSS but I am not sure if it is cost effective for a one-off.

As Fee Lock says "if someone has their life changed and can no longer earn - they need recompense" and at the same meeting Mike Courhold said "when litigation starts, they pass round each person in the 'room' and the last person left standing ...................."

Insurance is for your benefit. The gamble may be very long odds but the consequenses can be way out of proportion to the percieved risk before the fact.

Subject: RE: Public Liability Insurance
From: Howard Jones
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 06:59 AM

Try Musician's Insurance Services . They specialise in folk music.

You shouldn't rely on your household policy, it will probably exclude professional liability, and this counts as professional. Also, your household policy probably won't cover any instruments or other gear which are used professionally.

However, you could ask the LA why they want it. If all you will be doing is standing on a stage and singing, with no equipment (or with the venue's PA), what risks do they want you to insure against, and why aren't those risks covered by the venue's PLI? It's possible that this is just a box-ticking requirement which no one has really thought through.

Subject: RE: Public Liability Insurance
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 05:23 AM

Query it with the venue. I just had occasion to do this and found that the authority would waive it (depends on the circumstances of course).

Cover can also be obtained through membership of the EFDSS.

Paws

Subject: RE: Public Liability Insurance
From: Leadfingers
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 04:05 AM

Linda - Have yo any objection to joining M U ?? There is no reason why you cant be in more than one Union , and the annual fee is well worth whil if you are doing a reasonable number of paid gigs . Donr forget that apart from P L I , you will also have free access to M U legal expertise as well .
And I DONT have an exe to grind - I am an Equity member , though I WAS in M U in the past .

Subject: RE: Public Liability Insurance
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 03:35 AM

I have PL Insurance as an add-on to the policy on my instruments Linda. It's one of those things that it's unlikely you will ever have need to use, but if a claim does somehow arise, you're in sh*t-street without it.

In these ever-increasingly litigious times, it seems sensible to have cover, to my way of thinking.

Subject: RE: Public Liability Insurance
From: Darowyn
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 03:34 AM

I'd check your house contents insurance. Many of them include Public liability cover.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: Public Liability Insurance
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 03:26 AM

Here is one website that may be useful for PLI for singers.


http://www.insuranceforentertainers.co.uk/singers_insurance.htm

Subject: RE: Public Liability Insurance
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 01:57 AM

Sorry should have said-we are UK based

Subject: Public Liability Insurance
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 01:56 AM

We are doing a Local Authority gig and they want us to have PLA. We are not members of the musicians union as I have other union membership which doesnt cover this. We do not use instruments and will be doing 2 half hour sets. I am not averse to getting PLA but cant find any companies willing to do it for a one off event. Has anyone else come across this who isnt a member of the Muscians Union? Does any one know of a company offering cheap insurance (so far all of the ones I have looked at exceed the fee from the gig!) on either a one off or annual basis?. I am assuming that most professional singers have it-although the ones I have asked dont appear to.